Panasonic PZ80/PZ85 Calibration Thread (Updated first post) - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 2470 Old 05-09-2008, 08:40 PM
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Elway you're lucky, I've been on the AVS forum gathering information and it looks like I will have to ad 480i, to my already 1080i setting in my STB.

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post #182 of 2470 Old 05-10-2008, 01:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XBR11 View Post

Almost everyone here says that Warm is the correct choice. But when I've been using that setting, it seems to slightly darken the picture and to slightly over-saturate the colors. Kind of makes the colors look like those on an LCD. Has anyone here used Normal and liked it? I can imagine that there would be different settings if the base was Normal instead of Warm (like the tint and brightness, etc)? What settings in Normal looks good?

(It seems that every night I just love to go home and fiddle with the settings in that elusive search for an even better PQ. Of course what looks good on one channel, or one source, might not look as good on another. Sure would like to find a way to tone down the red.)

When a professional comes to do a calibration, would they start with Normal or Warm mode? Of could you do a calibration for both settings?

TH-42PZ80U

More than likely, the calibrator is going to calibrate with Warm mode since it needs less adjustment to get the color temp close to 6500K and for the RGB tracking to be optimum. If you start with Normal mode, you need much larger adjustments and this sometimes (often in my eperience) sends Panasonics off into the weels in some other parameter... Gamma may go very low for example, when you need large adjustments to get color temp accurate.

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post #183 of 2470 Old 05-10-2008, 01:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMUdukes07 View Post

Is there any reason I should be noticing a slight difference in the details of a picture between this and the XBR4 I returned? I'm not sure if it's due to the bigger screen size or processing or what but when watching the Yankees game last night on YES I didn't feel as though the picture was as detailed. Maybe LCD's are better at showing detail to make up for their poor motion handling?


Any insight on this would be appreciated.

Are you using Size 1 or Size 2? Size 1 cuts a fair number of pixels off the sides, top and bottom, the display has to re-process the remaining pixels to fill the 1920x1080 display - that causes an inevitable loss of detail. It's a useful mode if there's distracing "junk" on the side/top/bottom, but it's not the best mode for maximum detail. Size 2 gives you the image pixel for pixel with no extra processing so detail is retained.

There may be other issues also, but that one came to mind first.

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post #184 of 2470 Old 05-11-2008, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

Are you using Size 1 or Size 2? Size 1 cuts a fair number of pixels off the sides, top and bottom, the display has to re-process the remaining pixels to fill the 1920x1080 display - ......

There are several options in the settings menu on my 46PZ85U including "Size 1/2" that are dimmed out. I tried changing from Cinema to Custom but they were still dimmed. How does one change Size 1 to Size 2?
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post #185 of 2470 Old 05-11-2008, 04:59 AM
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OP - Why do you have the PS3 set to RGB? Isn't YUV better for BD playback according to the professional evaluations?
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post #186 of 2470 Old 05-11-2008, 05:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpforney56 View Post

There are several options in the settings menu on my 46PZ85U including "Size 1/2" that are dimmed out. I tried changing from Cinema to Custom but they were still dimmed. How does one change Size 1 to Size 2?

Size 1 and 2 are only used with hi-def source material. Size 2 gives a better picture in hi-def but is only usable with certain sources and certain programs. For instance, while watching blu-ray or hd-dvd you can and should use Size 2. If you are watching cable or satellite or even ota you may or may not ok using Size 2. Also, I believe you can only use size 2 if your format is "full" versus zoom . Someone will correct me on that last issue if I'm wrong.

Pan 46PZ85U, Marantz SR5003, TiVo Premier, TiVoHd + 1tb, A2 (fs), PS3, Pan DMR E-95 (fs), JVC DVD-A, Polk & Infinity, Harmony One
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post #187 of 2470 Old 05-11-2008, 08:41 AM
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In the advanced Picture menu, when using component in, I can change the color matrix between SD and HD. On broadcast color bars, it seems to make the green and blue darker (and by my eye, better). Then when I switch back to HDMI input, it stays at HD but is grayed out.

The manual says that "only 480p signal accepted...". I am connected to my Motorola Comcast box and watching only High Def channel, which are in 1080i.

So what does it mean and what should I do?

Thank you,
XBR11

TH-42PZ80U
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post #188 of 2470 Old 05-11-2008, 02:59 PM
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It seems like brightness should come down, but my eyes aren't good enough to figure out some good numbers. Could someone help?

thanks,
s
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post #189 of 2470 Old 05-12-2008, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpforney56 View Post

There are several options in the settings menu on my 46PZ85U including "Size 1/2" that are dimmed out. I tried changing from Cinema to Custom but they were still dimmed. How does one change Size 1 to Size 2?

If the menu choice is not accessible, you are sending a signal that is something other than 1080i or 1080p. I believe the Size setting is only active for 1080 sources. If your cable/satellite box or disc player are set to 720 or 480 resolution rather than 1080, I don't believe you'll be able to change the SIze option - and that also means you aren't seeing real 1080 resolution either which would explain why the picture looks "soft".

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post #190 of 2470 Old 05-12-2008, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

Are you using Size 1 or Size 2? Size 1 cuts a fair number of pixels off the sides, top and bottom, the display has to re-process the remaining pixels to fill the 1920x1080 display - that causes an inevitable loss of detail. It's a useful mode if there's distracing "junk" on the side/top/bottom, but it's not the best mode for maximum detail. Size 2 gives you the image pixel for pixel with no extra processing so detail is retained.

There may be other issues also, but that one came to mind first.

There is no "re-processing" of the image in Size 1, it's the same image as Size 2 just zoomed (overscan).


Quote:
Originally Posted by StuJac View Post

Size 1 and 2 are only used with hi-def source material. Size 2 gives a better picture in hi-def but is only usable with certain sources and certain programs. For instance, while watching blu-ray or hd-dvd you can and should use Size 2. If you are watching cable or satellite or even ota you may or may not ok using Size 2. Also, I believe you can only use size 2 if your format is "full" versus zoom . Someone will correct me on that last issue if I'm wrong.

Yes, this is exactly right, it depends on the source to which one you end up using, it would be nice if there were a button to quickly toggle between these 2.


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post #191 of 2470 Old 05-12-2008, 06:24 PM
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I am getting an SD Card (from GalleryPlayer). For all sources (HDMI 1, HDMI 2, Component 1, etc) we can change the calibration settings. Are there any changeable settings for an SD Card? If not, what source's settings is it using?

Thanks!
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post #192 of 2470 Old 05-13-2008, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iatacs19 View Post

There is no "re-processing" of the image in Size 1, it's the same image as Size 2 just zoomed (overscan).

When the image is zoomed, it IS processed. I don't know how many pixels are removed when Size 1 is selected, but for sake of arguement, let's say it's 100 pixels on all sides. The original image size is 1920x1080 and that's what you get if you select Size 2... pixel-for-pixel display of the original image. When you cut 100 pixels off around all 4 sides of the image, your image is now 1720x880 but your display is still 1920x1080. So the display MUST process the 1720x880 image to display it on the 1920x1080 display... whenever that happens, there is inevitable loss of detail. That's what I was referring to.

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post #193 of 2470 Old 05-13-2008, 07:39 PM
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I watch my TH-42PZ80U through my Comcast Motorola box via an HDMI cable and only watch the HD channels (though they don't always show HD shows). I've been having a lot of fun for weeks experimenting with calibration settings. Even though my shared-with-you settings have been different from each other, they still have produced really really good pq. This is a testament to how good the tv is with the Cinema setting. Basically I look at broadcast color bars and work to get the yellow more yellower and the red less glowing, and to increase the black detail without making the picture too bright. Then I look at real programming to judge the results.

But I have finally hit upon a great setting (the proof is that I haven't tweaked it for like 3 days ).

Cinema Settings
Picture: +85 (Increases the brightness without losing much black detail.)
Brightness: +51 (I vary this between about +38 and +58 depending on program and how much black level detail we want to see. Some programs seem to like being way dark, like Bones or Medium, while other programs are more normal. I wish I didn't have to vary it like that, but if we want to see things like lapels on a black suit we have to. When I used a DVD to do the THX video calibration, brightness came out at +28 when I got the drop shadow to disappear, but +28 is too darn dark.)
Color: +37
Tint: -8
Sharpness: +50
Color temp: Warm
Color mgmt: Off
x.v.Color: Off
C.A.T.S.: Off

Advanced Picture Settings:
3D Y/C filter: (Off and grayed out, but I am going to find a way to turn it on because I am getting some rainbow effects on close black lines.)

Color Matrix: HD (This is the secret setting! For an HMDI source, it is grayed out and thus not accessible. But if you set it to HD using a component input, when you switch back to HDMI, it stays HD and its effects on the color settings stay. I find that, on color bars, it makes cyan and green darker/stronger, and it also makes yellow strong and not greenish, and as a result the red is not so blooming.)

MPEG NR: Off
Black level: Light
HD size: (Doesn't matter - it depends if you like to see the noise, if any, or not)

With these setting the colors are beautifully vibrant and the HD detail is wonderful. The only bothersome thing is that I have to vary the brightness depending upon the program I am watching.
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post #194 of 2470 Old 05-18-2008, 11:41 AM
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Just had my set calibrated by Gregg Loewen http://www.lionav.com/ and my only word to describe the experience is WOW!!!
First of all by him setting my Grey Scale what a difference in my Blacks, this set know in my option is just as good as a KURO. The color calibration has lead to a must more acccurate skin tone look. But to sum it all up the education that he left with me is priceless. I would recommend anyone that can afford to pay for his services please check him out, he also brought along Michael Chen who covers Western Canada and the Pacific Northwest so to have the opportunity to meet and talk to 2 First Class Instructers was an Opportunity of a Lifetime. I'm not going to post my Calibration results because they would mean nothing to your set without Grey Scale correction. If anyone is interested in my Calibration please PM me and I will provide them to you.
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post #195 of 2470 Old 05-18-2008, 02:31 PM
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After trying a bunch of these settings I cant find something that looks good for direct tv viewing. All of my colors look washed out and have ALOT of noise and pixels. Bluray is much crisper but I dont like the noisey look even still is there anyway to help this or is this the nature of a plasma?
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post #196 of 2470 Old 05-18-2008, 03:03 PM
 
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Whats your tv source/provider? What kind of box/dvr is feeding your tv?
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post #197 of 2470 Old 05-18-2008, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pj121391 View Post

Just had my set calibrated by Gregg Loewen http://www.lionav.com/ and my only word to describe the experience is WOW!!!
First of all by him setting my Grey Scale what a difference in my Blacks, this set know in my option is just as good as a KURO.

When you say Grey Scale setting, are you referring to setting the Picture setting or is this something else.

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post #198 of 2470 Old 05-18-2008, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlynP5 View Post

When you say Grey Scale setting, are you referring to setting the Picture setting or is this something else.

It is a setting (or settings) in the Service Menu that only a qualified technician should mess with.
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post #199 of 2470 Old 05-19-2008, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pj121391 View Post

Just had my set calibrated ... and my only word to describe the experience is WOW!!!

Did you think your PQ was fantastic before it was calibrated, or did you think it was only okay? I think my PQ is so great now that I can't really imagine a calibration upping the WOW by big factor. Not saying that it doesn't happen, just that it would be hard to imagine getting better by a big margin.
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post #200 of 2470 Old 05-19-2008, 06:07 AM
 
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Im in the same boat, but I think its worth spending a few hundred bucks to see for myself if its worth it. Ive got a email into a guy in Richmond for a price.
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post #201 of 2470 Old 05-19-2008, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XBR11 View Post

Did you think your PQ was fantastic before it was calibrated, or did you think it was only okay? I think my PQ is so great now that I can't really imagine a calibration upping the WOW by big factor. Not saying that it doesn't happen, just that it would be hard to imagine getting better by a big margin.

First of all i'm a real perfectionist, an my eye has become very sensitive to a great looking TV throughout the years. I will agree with you that the 85U series is a Great TV out of the box with some tweaking using a calibration disc. But with calibration it brings it closer to to 6500 kelvin or D65. What it has done is made my set even better than it was in the blacks whitout crushing them, clouds and sky scenes have more detail etc. And it has evened out my colors so they really look right. Is calibration for you? I can't make that decision in the past 10 years I have had every TV that I bought professionally calibrated and it has always been worth the money for me.
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post #202 of 2470 Old 05-19-2008, 05:17 PM
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Just another recommendation for anyone considering calibration:

http://www.lionav.com/
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post #203 of 2470 Old 05-19-2008, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pj121391 View Post

First of all i'm a real perfectionist, an my eye has become very sensitive to a great looking TV throughout the years. I will agree with you that the 85U series is a Great TV out of the box with some tweaking using a calibration disc. But with calibration it brings it closer to to 6500 kelvin or D65. What it has done is made my set even better than it was in the blacks whitout crushing them, clouds and sky scenes have more detail etc. And it has evened out my colors so they really look right. Is calibration for you? I can't make that decision in the past 10 years I have had every TV that I bought professionally calibrated and it has always been worth the money for me.

How do skin tones look post calibration? If you say calibration actually improves black levels and shadow detail I may just have to open my wallet

Be a fan of displays, not companies or technologies!
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post #204 of 2470 Old 05-19-2008, 07:03 PM
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My skin tones are much better, less saturation with red and greens.
Overall my set looks better than it did pre calibration and my set looked awesome out of the box with just simple DVE calibration. Now i'm truly happy camper.
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post #205 of 2470 Old 05-21-2008, 05:53 PM
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Do I need to wait until after the break in to have my set professionally calibrated?
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post #206 of 2470 Old 05-21-2008, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by savet0night View Post

Do I need to wait until after the break in to have my set professionally calibrated?

I believe it is recommended.
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post #207 of 2470 Old 05-21-2008, 07:00 PM
 
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Id put a couple of hundred hours on it first.
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post #208 of 2470 Old 05-21-2008, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
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Id put a couple of hundred hours on it first.

+1 based on the fact that even tom huffman noted that his set's black level changed a bit over time (it did stabilize).


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post #209 of 2470 Old 05-22-2008, 03:47 PM
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Had my 46pz85u for almost a week now and been using tom's settings from the get go. The only thing i've changed so far is to turn Color Management to ON. I know, I know, I hear that's not wise, but try it for yourself, after A-B'ing it a million times to death, it does kill some of the red push on the sunburnt skin tones that people have when the setting is set to OFF. All other colors seem unaffected to my eye on my set, though I'm no pro. But it's hard to justify turning it off when it kills the one problem I had with the set while seemingly not changing anything else too drastically [again, to my eye only]. So for me, I have Color Management ON and I'm not looking back until I can get it completely broke in and ISF calibrated.

p.s. I'm using 10.2 Gbit HDMI cables on everything, PS3 and Dish HD with Onkyo 875 receiver switching everything [1.07 firm].

My TV before this for the past 5 years is an ISF calibrated Sony 36" CRT HDTV, so I'm used to a proper picture. Granted, this picture I have now is not as accurate or pleasing to my eye as that TV (which I still have) but the size of this one more than makes up for that loss.

26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?

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post #210 of 2470 Old 05-22-2008, 07:09 PM
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This is how best buy will collaborate it


Custom
Contrast +100
Brightness +56
Color +46
Tint -3
Sharpness +46
Color Temp Warm
Color Mng Off
CATS N/A
Video NR N/A
3DY/C Filter N/A
Color Matrix N/A
M-Peg N/A
Black N/A


SERIVE CONTROLS
Red Drive F6
Green Drive F8
Blue Driver A7
Red Cutoff +83
Green cutoff +80
Blue Cutoff +82


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