The Official 9G Pioneer General Discussion Thread - Page 239 - AVS Forum
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Old 07-12-2008, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

When you press "display" on your remote, the resolution that it shows on the screen (480p/1080i/etc) is only to show you the resolution on the incoming signal.


Sure you don't want to rethink this one:

"When it says "1080p", that means what you are seeing is 1080p up-converted to 1080p"

A_C

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Old 07-12-2008, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by antennahead View Post

......As a 5010 owner, would I be correct to assume the instructions on how to get to the SM on my model and the values for the grey scale calibration are somewhere in the 8G calibration/settings thread? ......

yes the SM access for 8g models is on page 2, post #58 of the 8g settings thread. d-nices reference settings are on page 1.

many post later in the thread have the offsets that owners are using when they do go into the SM.

HD HD HD I Need more HD, Yes I am a HD Addict :)
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Old 07-12-2008, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Dovetails View Post

D,

I trust your valuable input on this forum and I guess i'm looking for a little 'extra' reassurance .... I posted my auditioning experience today with the 5020 while at BB on the non-elite 9g thread. Tell me i'm off base and that this set will, in fact, really excel on 'movie' mode in a darkened HT environment i've re-read your review and noted you suggest avoiding 'dynamic' mode explicitly, (which I can usually understand under dark room conditions) however, at our local BB this mode simply looked stunning! Creating a 3D depth and richness to the pic that no other display in the store could match (even the 5010 sitting next to it). And, yes, I understand it should look impressive with the brighter environment.And,of course, 'Movie' mode (understandably) looked less than impressive considering the lighting. Bottom line is .... I guess i'm affraid of getting this set home and the recommended 'Movie' mode still looking a little too suttle for my taste and not having a viable alternative setting to use (considering your opinion on the remaining picture modes and the limited user adj.) Am I needlessly worrying about this


My AV room is a basement with limited natural light during day and none at night.
I use D-Nice Movie mode settings. Looks great on everything.
The Dynamic mode in a darkened AV environment looks a little bright to me as do all of the others based on how they are set stock from factory. Some may prefer the LCD -ish look though.

Movie mode is excellent and I previously had a 5080 with more user settings and this is better by a significant margin.
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Old 07-12-2008, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyns78 View Post
D-Nice - is calibrating the non-elites via the service menu something the average avsforum user will be able to do with a proper guide.....



Not sure. However, it's really quite easy.



D-Nice - So is this guide something you feel comfortable sharing with end users here?
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Old 07-12-2008, 09:43 AM
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I think D-Nice has indicated that he is still not through figuring out exactly how much can be done with these sets. Having followed his posts for a long time, I expect he will be very thorough in his testing but that, when he is finished, we will all get to see those results. I think a little patience is called for.

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Old 07-12-2008, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dssturbo1 View Post

yes the SM access for 8g models is on page 2, post #58 of the 8g settings thread. d-nices reference settings are on page 1.

many post later in the thread have the offsets that owners are using when they do go into the SM.

Thank you very much!!!

John
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Old 07-12-2008, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Everyone,

I'm happy to report that the 9G non-Elites can officially be calibrated

Colorspace selection may also be capable. I will report back later.

Hot diggity dog!
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Old 07-12-2008, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

I got to compare a 5010 and 5020 side-by-side the other day. I used the same remote to take them out of Dynamic mode. I adjusted them by eye to look as similar as possible. What did I think? Well, to be honest, besides the slightly better color saturation, I wasn't terribly impressed. The blacks were a little deeper, but if they weren't side-by-side I'd probably either not notice at all or only notice in a lowly lit environment.

I think one of the things that really urked me was the lack of picture options. As we all found out from D-Nice's review, everything is kind of locked out or hard wired and chosen by Pioneer to give the best overall picture. I am very unhappy about this. I feel that I can tweak the picture of the 5010 more to my liking. No, the blacks aren't as deep and there is a little red push, but I know how to remove the red push using the SM. As for the blacks, sure I wish I had the deeper ink, but the 5010 was actually sharper and more detailed to my eyes than the 5020. I'll take the sharper SD and HD picture over the slightly better blacks any day.

So am I the only one? If so, oh well. I just wanted to post my $0.02. I am a very happy 8th gen owner.

P.S. This is in no offense to anyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by antennahead View Post

As a 5010 owner who has not yet seen a 5020, but talked to some other owners prior to pulling the trigger on a fantastic deal......... I would have to say I agree with you. There is no argument that the 5020 has deeper blacks, but I don't watch in a totally blacked out room, just a dimmly lit one. The removal of too many adjustments in the 5020 was more than I could live with, and the price for an Elite was double my 5010. Also, your comments about the sharpness pan out with some other comments I've read. While not as black, I personally prefer the additional adjustment capability and the very sharp picture. To each his own, the 5020/6020 still beats everything out there except an Elite. Had the price I paid for the 5010 been close to a 5020 I think I would have had a real dilemma.

John

These comments are very similar to my thinking on this issue. I saw the 8G 110 and 9G 111 almost side-by-side (a Panasonic 850 was between) and if it weren't for an interview scene with an all-black background, I wouldn't have noted much of a difference either. With the right kind of feed the 9G blacks will look obviously better, I think, but this isn't to say the 8G sets are bad. As important as they are, black levels are only one part of PQ, and for many (such as yourselves) picture controls are also important. I'm trying to weigh all important (to me) aspects of a TV, and mainain a sense of perspective about it all. Reality (aka "budget") has a lot to say as well. I hope to see both generations set up properly and fed the same variety of material next week; that should settle it for me once and for all. The remaining 8Gs won't be around forever, so a decision must be made soon.

Plus, there's that nagging issue of the 9G having fewer analog connections than the 8G (and other TVs as well).
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Old 07-12-2008, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by PioBeer View Post

I was in BB the other day as well, and I compared the 5010 to the 5020 and the 5020 IMO was the better TV by quite a good margin. (8G still better than everyother plasma besides 9Gs). It impressed me so much that I bought it and took it home right then and there (well, after about an hour of drooling.) Believe me, Movie mode with D-Nice settings can't be beat. The colors are so natural not over-saturated at all, and the gray-scale/shadow detail can't be beat. With those settings, it is simply the best TV/PQ I have ever experienced in my life. With movie mode you can just set it and forget it.

They finally put up a 5020 (and it's currently on sale, surprisingly) at one of the BB's in the area here and I got to see it today. There was a 5010 above it, a Panasonic to the left (unsure of the model number) and Samsung plasma beyond that. On the BB loop where you see the field of red tulips (or whatever), the 5020 had a much richer red. The Panasonic and Samsung reds were actually brighter and a bit washed out in comparison. No idea what mode was set and I didn't even try to ask for the remote since it was a quick stop. The 5020 definitely had better blacks than the 5010 above it (and overall was brighter than the 5010) and trumped anything nearby including a Samsung LCD to the right. I did, however, notice a distinct glow at the end of the video loop when the screen goes black, and this is in the lit store, not the Magnolia room. On a side note, I hate looking at 50" plasmas lined up and stacked on a huge wall with other TVs. It makes the 50" look too small. Thus I'm back and forth between the 5020 and 6020.
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Old 07-12-2008, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prepress View Post

These comments are very similar to my thinking on this issue. I saw the 8G 110 and 9G 111 almost side-by-side (a Panasonic 850 was between) and if it weren't for an interview scene with an all-black background, I wouldn't have noted much of a difference either. With the right kind of feed the 9G blacks will look obviously better, I think, but this isn't to say the 8G sets are bad. As important as they are, black levels are only one part of PQ, and for many (such as yourselves) picture controls are also important. I'm trying to weigh all important (to me) aspects of a TV, and mainain a sense of perspective about it all. Reality (aka "budget") has a lot to say as well. I hope to see both generations set up properly and fed the same variety of material next week; that should settle it for me once and for all. The remaining 8Gs won't be around forever, so a decision must be made soon.

Plus, there's that nagging issue of the 9G having fewer analog connections than the 8G (and other TVs as well).

"I hope to see both generations set up properly and fed the same variety of material next week"

I look forward to you sharing the results with us!

John
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Old 07-12-2008, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

When you press "display" on your remote, the resolution that it shows on the screen (480p/1080i/etc) is only to show you the resolution on the incoming signal.
When it says "480i", that means what you are seeing is 480i upconverted to 1080p.
When it says "480p", that means what you are seeing is 480p upconverted to 1080p.
When it says "720i", that means what you are seeing is 720i upconverted to 1080p.
When it says "720p", that means what you are seeing is 720p upconverted to 1080p.
When it says "1080i", that means what you are seeing is 1080i upconverted to 1080p.
When it says "1080p", that means what you are seeing is 1080p upconverted to 1080p.

you are always seeing 1080p. the quality and resolution of the source is why you see differences

at 1080p, does it show 30fps or 60fps? (video sources, not film sources).

Movies must be OAR, sports and movies must also have 5.1 audio, No EE or NO SALE!
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Old 07-12-2008, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Thebarnman View Post

at 1080p, does it show 30fps or 60fps?

No, just the resolution of the incoming signal.
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Old 07-12-2008, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by progprog View Post

No, just the resolution of the incoming signal.


Since the native resolution of the display is 1080p, I can only assume that everything is converted to 1080p.

However there's also the issue of FPS. I know video is generally 30fps.

So I was wondering if the 151FD also converts the FPS to 60 on all video sources.

Or does the 151FD show all video sources at 30fps?


(I know that film sources is shown at 72fps with the advanced setting, but that's something different.)

Movies must be OAR, sports and movies must also have 5.1 audio, No EE or NO SALE!
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Old 07-12-2008, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Thebarnman View Post

So I was wondering if the 151FD also converts the FPS to 60 on all video sources.

Yes.
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Old 07-12-2008, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by kyler13 View Post

They finally put up a 5020 (and it's currently on sale, surprisingly) at one of the BB's in the area here and I got to see it today. There was a 5010 above it, a Panasonic to the left (unsure of the model number) and Samsung plasma beyond that. On the BB loop where you see the field of red tulips (or whatever), the 5020 had a much richer red. The Panasonic and Samsung reds were actually brighter and a bit washed out in comparison. No idea what mode was set and I didn't even try to ask for the remote since it was a quick stop. The 5020 definitely had better blacks than the 5010 above it (and overall was brighter than the 5010) and trumped anything nearby including a Samsung LCD to the right. I did, however, notice a distinct glow at the end of the video loop when the screen goes black, and this is in the lit store, not the Magnolia room. On a side note, I hate looking at 50" plasmas lined up and stacked on a huge wall with other TVs. It makes the 50" look too small. Thus I'm back and forth between the 5020 and 6020.

that is sooo true when you go to bb and you see the 50 inch plasmas. they look tiny! could be a selling plow to make you buy a bigger tv. when you go into realy home theater stores and u see those 50 inch plasmas on their own they look big.
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Old 07-12-2008, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by PioBeer View Post

I was in BB the other day as well, and I compared the 5010 to the 5020 and the 5020 IMO was the better TV by quite a good margin. (8G still better than everyother plasma besides 9Gs). It impressed me so much that I bought it and took it home right then and there (well, after about an hour of drooling.) Believe me, Movie mode with D-Nice settings can't be beat. The colors are so natural not over-saturated at all, and the gray-scale/shadow detail can't be beat. With those settings, it is simply the best TV/PQ I have ever experienced in my life. With movie mode you can just set it and forget it.



Thanks to Piobeer and LKDog for taking the time for a response to my post.

Frankly, I think i'm trying to over analyze this decision (to MUCH reading on the forum) Far easier to just go buy one of the damn things and see for myself
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Old 07-12-2008, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebarnman View Post

Since the native resolution of the display is 1080p, I can only assume that everything is converted to 1080p.

However there's also the issue of FPS. I know video is generally 30fps.

So I was wondering if the 151FD also converts the FPS to 60 on all video sources.

Or does the 151FD show all video sources at 30fps?


(I know that film sources is shown at 72fps with the advanced setting, but that's something different.)

Sorry, barnman, I though you were just asking what info the display gave.
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Old 07-12-2008, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Dovetails View Post

Thanks to Piobeer and LKDog for taking the time for a response to my post.

Frankly, I think i'm trying to over analyze this decision (to MUCH reading on the forum) Far easier to just go buy one of the damn things and see for myself

That's an important aspect of the process, keeping things natural. All the analysis, minutae and debate can make it more difficult. I plan to see the sets on my list, compare them, and buy according to my budget and needs.
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Old 07-12-2008, 05:10 PM
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just got a 5020 from Amazon with the CEVA white glove shipping and here was my experience. fyi, i'm located in West L.A.

- placed order Tue Jul 1, shipped the next day from "Columbus". i'm guessing that was Ohio.
- CEVA called on Mon Jul 7 to schedule delivery... we settled on Wed Jul 9 from 1-5pm
- on Wed, CEVA gave me a call right at 1p saying they'd be there in 20 minutes. they showed up at 2p. when i went down to the truck, i only noticed one box on the truck... it was a Panasonic 800U! "WTF guys?" apparently, they had dropped off my 5020 by mistake at their last delivery. luckily it was just a drop off and not the white glove install there. they went back and got my 5020 (just down the street) and brought it in. no cracks and no dead pixels.

Amazon/CEVA Pros: communication, delivery time, seemed to be careful with the product
Amazon/CEVA Cons: they might almost give your plasma to someone else
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Old 07-12-2008, 06:07 PM
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nice street with 2 50" plasmas getting delivered on the same day

HD HD HD I Need more HD, Yes I am a HD Addict :)
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Old 07-12-2008, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by CoreY2K View Post

just got a 5020 from Amazon with the CEVA white glove shipping and here was my experience. fyi, i'm located in West L.A.

- placed order Tue Jul 1, shipped the next day from "Columbus". i'm guessing that was Ohio.
- CEVA called on Mon Jul 7 to schedule delivery... we settled on Wed Jul 9 from 1-5pm
- on Wed, CEVA gave me a call right at 1p saying they'd be there in 20 minutes. they showed up at 2p. when i went down to the truck, i only noticed one box on the truck... it was a Panasonic 800U! "WTF guys?" apparently, they had dropped off my 5020 by mistake at their last delivery. luckily it was just a drop off and not the white glove install there. they went back and got my 5020 (just down the street) and brought it in. no cracks and no dead pixels.

Amazon/CEVA Pros: communication, delivery time, seemed to be careful with the product
Amazon/CEVA Cons: they might almost give your plasma to someone else

The person who got the 5020 was probably hoping the delivery guys wouldn't come back with his 800u.
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Old 07-12-2008, 06:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by CoreY2K View Post

just got a 5020 from Amazon with the CEVA white glove shipping and here was my experience. fyi, i'm located in West L.A.

- placed order Tue Jul 1, shipped the next day from "Columbus". i'm guessing that was Ohio.
- CEVA called on Mon Jul 7 to schedule delivery... we settled on Wed Jul 9 from 1-5pm
- on Wed, CEVA gave me a call right at 1p saying they'd be there in 20 minutes. they showed up at 2p. when i went down to the truck, i only noticed one box on the truck... it was a Panasonic 800U! "WTF guys?" apparently, they had dropped off my 5020 by mistake at their last delivery. luckily it was just a drop off and not the white glove install there. they went back and got my 5020 (just down the street) and brought it in. no cracks and no dead pixels.

Amazon/CEVA Pros: communication, delivery time, seemed to be careful with the product
Amazon/CEVA Cons: they might almost give your plasma to someone else

Question....I'm thinking of getting a 6010 via Amazon, but I want to check something. Everyone around here has just great experiences with Amazon, but I have never purchased anything from there. I've noticed that even if you are buying on Amazon.com...the "seller" may be someone else other than them. Is it still the same thing? Are you still going to be dealing with Amazon for everything...including any possible returns?
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Old 07-12-2008, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by jrcorwin View Post

Question....I'm thinking of getting a 6010 via Amazon, but I want to check something. Everyone around here has just great experiences with Amazon, but I have never purchased anything from there. I've noticed that even if you are buying on Amazon.com...the "seller" may be someone else other than them. Is it still the same thing? Are you still going to be dealing with Amazon for everything...including any possible returns?

NO! If you're buying from another seller there, you are subject to that seller's return policies, NOT Amazon's. Very important distinction.
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Old 07-12-2008, 06:28 PM
 
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NO! If you're buying from another seller there, you are subject to that seller's return policies, NOT Amazon's. Very important distinction.

Oh wow...I'm glad I asked! Thank you.
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Old 07-12-2008, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by miata View Post

De-interlacing is one thing, but scaling is another. When we are talking about the difference between 480p and 1080p we talking about scaling -- and that the Kuros do very well.

I also compared my 8G Kuro's de-interlacing to the PS3 and found the Kuro to be better. The image had more detail and was more realistic with well authored titles like Star Wars. I wasn't so much looking at torture tests as real world viewing. I remember the Kuro having troubles with certain cadences compared to the HD-XA2 or the OPPO 983, but I don't put much value on that compared to the overall image that you get with the vast majority of released DVDs. I guess it depends on what is important to you. I personally tend to spend more time watching movies than calibration discs

It depends on whether you care about material (like concerts) that were originated from 480i video cameras, or whether you are exclusively interested in material originated at 24p (like feature films). It's relatively easy for a deinterlacer/scaler to do 3:2 pulldown compared to deinterlacing video-originated 480i material. The 150's scaler appears to do an adequate job of 3:2 pulldown as long as the 3:2 cadence is not broken. (This can happen if telecine-originated material is edited in the 480i domain; the Secrets web site has a good explanation of how this can happen and why it is important for a display's deinterlacer to re-acquire a broken 3:2 cadence quickly and smoothly.)
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Old 07-12-2008, 08:51 PM
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Would you guys purchase a floor model 6010 for $3499? I just got tempted at Best Buy... (I'm assuming demo pricing would probably be okay to discuss, I apologize if it is not)
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Old 07-12-2008, 09:58 PM
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I m interested in the 3:3 pulldown feature of this sets (5020)however in the manuel the 72HZ mode seems not available in 1080p@60! that is very strange, looks like the blu-ray 24p output is not supported? can anyone test that ?
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Old 07-12-2008, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrcorwin View Post

Question....I'm thinking of getting a 6010 via Amazon, but I want to check something. Everyone around here has just great experiences with Amazon, but I have never purchased anything from there. I've noticed that even if you are buying on Amazon.com...the "seller" may be someone else other than them. Is it still the same thing? Are you still going to be dealing with Amazon for everything...including any possible returns?

My experience with Amazon was horrible and I would never buy from them again.
Got 2 dead 6010's in a row, both times only one delivery guy showed up instead of the two they promised, and everytime I called them I had to talk to someone in India who read all thier responses from a monitor. they send american jobs over to India to save thierselves money, but the customer ends up paying. Why not buy from a forum sponsor? You will probably get a better deal and will be giving your buisness to a "Down home" store where a handshake and a guarantee really mean something.
I like to be dealt with like a person and not an order number. And with Amazon, all you are is a number.
My experience with Robert@**************** was far better than my experience with amazon. And if I have problems or something I know Robert will be there on my side. you just can't beat that.
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Old 07-12-2008, 10:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

My experience with Amazon was horrible and I would never buy from them again.
Got 2 dead 6010's in a row, both times only one delivery guy showed up instead of the two they promised, and everytime I called them I had to talk to someone in India who read all thier responses from a monitor. they send american jobs over to India to save thierselves money, but the customer ends up paying. Why not buy from a forum sponsor? You will probably get a better deal.
I like to be dealt with like a person and not an order number. And with Amazon, all you are is a number.
My experience with Robert@**************** was far better than my experience with amazon. And if I have problems or something I know Robert will be there on my side. you just can't beat that.

I would gladly buy from a forum sponsor if I can get a better deal. Check the 9g Elite thread...I just asked you a question in there about this actually.
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Old 07-12-2008, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

My experience with Amazon was horrible and I would never buy from them again.
Got 2 dead 6010's in a row, both times only one delivery guy showed up instead of the two they promised, and everytime I called them I had to talk to someone in India who read all thier responses from a monitor. they send american jobs over to India to save thierselves money, but the customer ends up paying. Why not buy from a forum sponsor? You will probably get a better deal and will be giving your buisness to a "Down home" store where a handshake and a guarantee really mean something.
I like to be dealt with like a person and not an order number. And with Amazon, all you are is a number.
My experience with Robert@**************** was far better than my experience with amazon. And if I have problems or something I know Robert will be there on my side. you just can't beat that.

After dealing with Amazon I have to agree with Chad here. Although my 5020 came in great shape after 8 days, it was a very stressful 8 days with trouble tracking my package and having to call Amazon and CEVA several times to even figure out where the TV was. I don't doubt that working with a forum sponsor would have some great benefits on a personal level, but if you're not going to be too uptight about it, then Amazon wasn't so bad. I'm satisfied.
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