The Official 9G Pioneer General Discussion Thread - Page 240 - AVS Forum
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post #7171 of 7982 Old 07-12-2008, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by hellracer View Post

I m interested in the 3:3 pulldown feature of this sets (5020)however in the manuel the 72HZ mode seems not available in 1080p@60! that is very strange, looks like the blu-ray 24p output is not supported? can anyone test that ?

I could very well be wrong, but that makes perfect sense to me. I think you might be confused - if you have 1080P @ 60hz source material, then you don't want 72hz - you would want 60hz or some multiple of 60. If you have 24hz material, such as films, you would want 72hz or some multiple of 24hz, such as 48hz or 120hz. The point of 72hz is to avoid the judder introduced when mashing it into a 60hz display. Most BluRay players, if not all, will be able to output 1080P @ 24hz - such as the PS3. Your 5020 will use the 72hz mode to effectively display the 24hz source without having to modify it to 60hz.

Feel free to correct me, I'm by no means an expert
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post #7172 of 7982 Old 07-13-2008, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by The_Hun View Post

This is for D-Nice or anyone that knows the real answer to this question.
I have the ps3 and the 5020. I have been using D-Nice's movie settings and they are great. I only tweaked teh colour up to my liking. However, last night i was playing with teh ps3 settings during a movie so i could get direct comparisons. I went into video settings and was switching between RGB colour and Yp/Cb/Rc/Bp or whatever the letters are. and the setting i usually had the ps3 on was the Yp/Cb... so when i switched to RGB i noticed the colours in the movie had alot more pop to them. then went i swtiched back the colours were more soft. So i was thinking if I did not tweak D-Nice's colours up a couple notches on the RGB setting would the be the correct ps3 setting. So in other words, my question is should i be using the RGB colour or the Yp/Pb/Rc.. thing? Let me know, thanks

PS3 has applicable settings in the BD/DVD Video output format for HDMI and the General Display Settings.

If you were going to set it manually for your set the best setting generally is BD/DVD to YPb/CbPr/Cr however as D-Nice points out Automatic should be safest allowing the PS3 to negotiate it based on source and your set's input capabilities. Most times you should find it using YPb/CbPr/Cr that setting anyway.

Also in general display settings using your Kuro you should also have YPb/CbPr/Cr/SuperWhite to On.

Here's an excellent post by MS video professional sspears on the subject.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&#post10630977

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post #7173 of 7982 Old 07-13-2008, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Everyone,

I'm happy to report that the 9G non-Elites can officially be calibrated

Colorspace selection may also be capable. I will report back later.

Excellent news, if for no other reason than make us "non-elites" feel better about our investment. Whether we actually calibrate it or not, we know that we can.

Thanks D-nice. Looking forward to the how-to guide as it sounds a like any prospective pro ISF calibrator will need some specific knowledge about the 9G Non-elites to do a good calibration anyway.

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post #7174 of 7982 Old 07-13-2008, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by jrcorwin View Post

I would gladly buy from a forum sponsor if I can get a better deal. Check the 9g Elite thread...I just asked you a question in there about this actually.

It really DOES matter whom you buy from as problems can arise unexpectedly, and it is the support from the Seller that means most in these unfortunate circumstances. If going the online buying route, checkout the AVS Forum Sponsors first & foremost. These guys have a good long reputation of satisfying their clients.
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post #7175 of 7982 Old 07-13-2008, 02:28 AM
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jrcorwin,

You basically have as options, buying from a brick and mortar store like Best Buy(probably the most expensive option), buying from a Forum sponser, and buying from somebody like Amazon which actually subdivides into it being a direct sale from Amazon or a sale from one of their associate merchants.

With each option, you have pros and cons.

Questions that should be asked are: When will it arrive, who will bring it in and set it up(many of us help if only one guy delivers the set if we're physically capable), if it arrives damaged what then and one other issue that I experienced that I don't see anyone else mentioning and that is what if there is a price drop the day after you order it..do you get benefit for the drop? On that last one, the forum sponser I purchased a plasma from didn't pass along the $500 price drop (the day after I ordered it) even though I have reason to believe that he was aware of it coming and said nothing. Had it been Amazon(purchase from Amazon and not one of their affiliates), I believe you can get credited with the price drop within so many days.

As far as loosing your money due to damage with any of these sellers, I think as long as you put it on your credit card, you're covered. One of the better known forum sponsers that we hear about a lot on this forum tried to burn me on a bad component a few years ago. My credit card company stepped in and got my money back. Don't just assume that all forum sponsers are golden and will act in your best interest. Just be sure that you put it on a credit card.

Ultimately, I think the biggest concern is that if your set arrives damaged that you're out your payment. Given that if you put it on your credit card, your downside risk is the same regardless who you purchase it from. Next question in my book, is what happens if there is a price drop within 30 days. That needs to be weighed against current price. If Amazon has it for the same price as a forum sponser and Amazon gives you a 30 day price protection and the sponser doesn't, then I'd go with Amazon.

Now I'll probably get flamed for not blindly supporting forum sponsers, but I say do support them. Just be sure to ask the right questions and be satisfied with the answers.

Samsung 64F8500, Panasonic 65VT50, Oppo 95, Tivo Roamio for OTA, Dish VIP722, Marantz AV8801 preamp, Rotel Amps, Atlantic Tech 8200 speakers, Seaton Submersive HP, Calman 5, Chromapure, Accupel DVG-5000, i1Display3pro, i1pro2, eecolor colorbox.
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post #7176 of 7982 Old 07-13-2008, 04:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cajieboy View Post

It really DOES matter whom you buy from as problems can arise unexpectedly, and it is the support from the Seller that means most in these unfortunate circumstances. If going the online buying route, checkout the AVS Forum Sponsors first & foremost. These guys have a good long reputation of satisfying their clients.

Service is a sales tool. Not every vendor gets that. I try to buy (especially on an expensive item like a TV) from one who does. I'll remember how well I was treated and be back the next time I'm in the market for something.
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post #7177 of 7982 Old 07-13-2008, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by cajieboy View Post

It really DOES matter whom you buy from as problems can arise unexpectedly, and it is the support from the Seller that means most in these unfortunate circumstances. If going the online buying route, checkout the AVS Forum Sponsors first & foremost. These guys have a good long reputation of satisfying their clients.


Certainly can recommend Robert at Value Electronics and Roman O at Clarity.
Not just because I got units from them-they actually handled problem issues that came up for me very professionally.
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post #7178 of 7982 Old 07-13-2008, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post

jrcorwin,

You basically have as options, buying from a brick and mortar store like Best Buy(probably the most expensive option), buying from a Forum sponser, and buying from somebody like Amazon which actually subdivides into it being a direct sale from Amazon or a sale from one of their associate merchants.

With each option, you have pros and cons.

Questions that should be asked are: When will it arrive, who will bring it in and set it up(many of us help if only one guy delivers the set if we're physically capable), if it arrives damaged what then and one other issue that I experienced that I don't see anyone else mentioning and that is what if there is a price drop the day after you order it..do you get benefit for the drop? On that last one, the forum sponser I purchased a plasma from didn't pass along the $500 price drop (the day after I ordered it) even though I have reason to believe that he was aware of it coming and said nothing. Had it been Amazon(purchase from Amazon and not one of their affiliates), I believe you can get credited with the price drop within so many days.

As far as loosing your money due to damage with any of these sellers, I think as long as you put it on your credit card, you're covered. One of the better known forum sponsers that we hear about a lot on this forum tried to burn me on a bad component a few years ago. My credit card company stepped in and got my money back. Don't just assume that all forum sponsers are golden and will act in your best interest. Just be sure that you put it on a credit card.

Ultimately, I think the biggest concern is that if your set arrives damaged that you're out your payment. Given that if you put it on your credit card, your downside risk is the same regardless who you purchase it from. Next question in my book, is what happens if there is a price drop within 30 days. That needs to be weighed against current price. If Amazon has it for the same price as a forum sponser and Amazon gives you a 30 day price protection and the sponser doesn't, then I'd go with Amazon.

Now I'll probably get flamed for not blindly supporting forum sponsers, but I say do support them. Just be sure to ask the right questions and be satisfied with the answers.


You do not have to and should not accept a damaged unit.
You need to inspect the unit before acceptance and should be allowed to look at the glass before you sign off. If they will not allow that-do not accept it.
Additionally you can sign as "accepting pending internal inspection".

The vendors and PIO distribution centers have insurance on the shipping to your house.

I had a damaged unit delivered with forklift holes in the side of a taped up box. The stand and lower bezel were smashed.
Refused delivery and had a new one shipped out promptly by the forum sponsor.

I think that buying from a brick and mortar does offer easier return/replacement policies for non-warranty reasons(buzzing, or simply do not like it).
You will pay a much higher price and unless you pay for delivery, you have to get it to your house yourself.
If you dump it over in the back of the family pickup it is your $4000 doorstop then.
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post #7179 of 7982 Old 07-13-2008, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by LKDog View Post

I think that buying from a brick and mortar does offer easier return/replacement policies for non-warranty reasons(buzzing, or simply do not like it).
You will pay a much higher price and unless you pay for delivery, you have to get it to your house yourself.
If you dump it over in the back of the family pickup it is your $4000 doorstop then.

If you don't know how to load a pick-up to the point that your TV might dump over back there, by all means pay the extra $75 for delivery! For both units that I've had, my son and I brought it home and set it up, without problem. With the first one, the store guys loaded the truck, first handtrucking it up their stairs, then laying it down on its back in my truck. It was when we were unloading that I saw the warning NOT to do that. So with the second unit, we loaded it and kept it upright the whole time. I trust our handling of these things way more than I trust any salesman or delivery guys.

I just wanted to add, for clarification, that some very well-known B&Ms will price match under the right circumstances, so the "much higher price" statement isn't necessarily true. I have been extremely satisfied with both the price and service that I've received from my local B&M.

Okay, enough price/buying talk. The moderators have been very sensitive about this lately, as it probably doesn't sit well with the forum sponsors.
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post #7180 of 7982 Old 07-13-2008, 02:50 PM
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Sounds like a good deal - I would add an additional warranty with it. Not quite as good as the 6020, but a lot better than most...and your saving close to a G.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skibbs View Post

Would you guys purchase a floor model 6010 for $3499? I just got tempted at Best Buy... (I'm assuming demo pricing would probably be okay to discuss, I apologize if it is not)

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post #7181 of 7982 Old 07-13-2008, 03:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post

jrcorwin,

You basically have as options, buying from a brick and mortar store like Best Buy(probably the most expensive option), buying from a Forum sponser, and buying from somebody like Amazon which actually subdivides into it being a direct sale from Amazon or a sale from one of their associate merchants.

With each option, you have pros and cons.

Questions that should be asked are: When will it arrive, who will bring it in and set it up(many of us help if only one guy delivers the set if we're physically capable), if it arrives damaged what then and one other issue that I experienced that I don't see anyone else mentioning and that is what if there is a price drop the day after you order it..do you get benefit for the drop? On that last one, the forum sponser I purchased a plasma from didn't pass along the $500 price drop (the day after I ordered it) even though I have reason to believe that he was aware of it coming and said nothing. Had it been Amazon(purchase from Amazon and not one of their affiliates), I believe you can get credited with the price drop within so many days.

As far as loosing your money due to damage with any of these sellers, I think as long as you put it on your credit card, you're covered. One of the better known forum sponsers that we hear about a lot on this forum tried to burn me on a bad component a few years ago. My credit card company stepped in and got my money back. Don't just assume that all forum sponsers are golden and will act in your best interest. Just be sure that you put it on a credit card.

Ultimately, I think the biggest concern is that if your set arrives damaged that you're out your payment. Given that if you put it on your credit card, your downside risk is the same regardless who you purchase it from. Next question in my book, is what happens if there is a price drop within 30 days. That needs to be weighed against current price. If Amazon has it for the same price as a forum sponser and Amazon gives you a 30 day price protection and the sponser doesn't, then I'd go with Amazon.

Now I'll probably get flamed for not blindly supporting forum sponsers, but I say do support them. Just be sure to ask the right questions and be satisfied with the answers.

Thanks for the info.
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post #7182 of 7982 Old 07-13-2008, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by progprog View Post

If you don't know how to load a pick-up to the point that your TV might dump over back there, by all means pay the extra $75 for delivery! For both units that I've had, my son and I brought it home and set it up, without problem. With the first one, the store guys loaded the truck, first handtrucking it up their stairs, then laying it down on its back in my truck. It was when we were unloading that I saw the warning NOT to do that. So with the second unit, we loaded it and kept it upright the whole time. I trust our handling of these things way more than I trust any salesman or delivery guys.

I just wanted to add, for clarification, that some very well-known B&Ms will price match under the right circumstances, so the "much higher price" statement isn't necessarily true. I have been extremely satisfied with both the price and service that I've received from my local B&M.

Okay, enough price/buying talk. The moderators have been very sensitive about this lately, as it probably doesn't sit well with the forum sponsors.

I got my pro1150 from a local B&M at a great price. Their warehouse guy help me load it and assured me that laying it on its side will not affect it. They said they do it all the time and I haven't had any problems whatsoever. What's the logic behind it? Anybody?
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post #7183 of 7982 Old 07-13-2008, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by popthis View Post

I got my pro1150 from a local B&M at a great price. Their warehouse guy help me load it and assured me that laying it on its side will not affect it. They said they do it all the time and I haven't had any problems whatsoever. What's the logic behind it? Anybody?

When it bounces in a truck or van while lying flat there is a greater chance it can break I believe. There is a reason you see those trucks transporting glass standing upright.
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post #7184 of 7982 Old 07-13-2008, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by popthis View Post

I got my pro1150 from a local B&M at a great price. Their warehouse guy help me load it and assured me that laying it on its side will not affect it. They said they do it all the time and I haven't had any problems whatsoever. What's the logic behind it? Anybody?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LKDog View Post

When it bounces in a truck or van while lying flat there is a greater chance it can break I believe. There is a reason you see those trucks transporting glass standing upright.

The guys at my B&M said they do it all the time, too. So it kind of annoyed them, I think, when I said I'd prefer to go by Pioneer's recommendation that is clearly indicated on the box.

One guy claimed the warning came from the earlier days of plasmas, when there was something about the gasses having to "re-settle" after the unit was in anything but its upright position. That one sounds kind of urban-legendish, but could be true for all I know. Another guy said it was just a common sense way to protect the glass panel. This one sounds more intuitive to me, but I really have no idea. I just know that Pioneer says to keep them upright, so I wanted the second one done that way.
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post #7185 of 7982 Old 07-13-2008, 07:18 PM
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Tweeter loaded ours in the truck flat, too. They said it was more important to be upright when traveling for longer periods of time. It arrived home with no problems.
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post #7186 of 7982 Old 07-13-2008, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

jrcorwin,

You basically have as options, buying from a brick and mortar store like Best Buy(probably the most expensive option), buying from a Forum sponser, and buying from somebody like Amazon which actually subdivides into it being a direct sale from Amazon or a sale from one of their associate merchants.

With each option, you have pros and cons.

Questions that should be asked are: When will it arrive, who will bring it in and set it up(many of us help if only one guy delivers the set if we're physically capable), if it arrives damaged what then and one other issue that I experienced that I don't see anyone else mentioning and that is what if there is a price drop the day after you order it..do you get benefit for the drop? On that last one, the forum sponser I purchased a plasma from didn't pass along the $500 price drop (the day after I ordered it) even though I have reason to believe that he was aware of it coming and said nothing. Had it been Amazon(purchase from Amazon and not one of their affiliates), I believe you can get credited with the price drop within so many days.

As far as loosing your money due to damage with any of these sellers, I think as long as you put it on your credit card, you're covered. One of the better known forum sponsers that we hear about a lot on this forum tried to burn me on a bad component a few years ago. My credit card company stepped in and got my money back. Don't just assume that all forum sponsers are golden and will act in your best interest. Just be sure that you put it on a credit card.

Ultimately, I think the biggest concern is that if your set arrives damaged that you're out your payment. Given that if you put it on your credit card, your downside risk is the same regardless who you purchase it from. Next question in my book, is what happens if there is a price drop within 30 days. That needs to be weighed against current price. If Amazon has it for the same price as a forum sponser and Amazon gives you a 30 day price protection and the sponser doesn't, then I'd go with Amazon.

Now I'll probably get flamed for not blindly supporting forum sponsers, but I say do support them. Just be sure to ask the right questions and be satisfied with the answers.

The 30 day price increase/decrease policy of Amazon is great and all but it doesn't benifit that many people. Sometimes it does.
I would not let that be a deciding factor in my choice becasue there is a possibility you won't benefit from it.
And when you receive the unit you need to inspect it on delivery. If they don't allow it then write "subject to inspection" when you sign for it. When I had my 6020 delivered from Robert, I wrote "subject to inspection" even though we plugged the TV up and verified there was video.
The speakers take a while to put on and some delivery guys won't wait that long for you to verify the sound works. Instead of asking the delivery guys to wait whie I attached the speaker system, I just wrote "subject to inspection" because I had not verified that the sound worked.
Writing "subject to inspection" keeps the shipping company liable for damages even after delivery.
If the set is damaged or won't power up then simply reject delivery. If you were not allowed to inspect, then call the forum sponsor (whichever one) and tell them your set doesn't work. More than likely they will expedite you a new set immediatly (Amazon does NOT do this). With Amazon, they have to recieve the bad unit back before they will send the replacement (which could take up to a week). And when they send the replacement, they WILL NOT expedite it to you. You have to wait the 1-2 weeks all over again. It took me almost 3 weeks to get the 1st replacement 6010 from amazon, Which turned out to be DOA also so I had to reject delivery again then wait almost a week for them to recieve the 2nd damaged set back, Only to be told that they were out of 6010 stock and I would be getting a refund (that took over 3 weeks for them to put back on my Credit card).
I went thru over a month and a half of crap with amazon only to get my money back. What a big waste of time that was. And all the time there were people here on AVS telling me to go with a forum sponsor but I didn't.
From what I was told by Robert @ ****************, You don't have to deal with all this mess with a forum sponsor. They expedite the replacement to you as soon as they find out that your set is DOA.
IMO it is the smarter move to deal with a company that specializes in shipping and customer service of large flat-panel televisions, than it is to deal with a company that sells everything under the sun like Amazon.
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post #7187 of 7982 Old 07-13-2008, 07:51 PM
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I just calibrated the 50" Elite, and got excellent results. This is one case where manufacturer's claims are not just marketing hype.

I measured the on/off contrast as almost exactly double last year's models (28.2/0.0035 or 8,057:1 fL vs. 40.1/0.002 fL or 17,875:1).

What I find truly amazing about these displays is not the on/off CR, as great as it is (CRTs and the JVC RS2 front projector measure even higher). Where they are truly game-changing is their ANSI (checkerboard) CR. I got 6,500:1 on this set! This is 6 or 7 times better than any display I have ever encountered.

BTW, if you can afford it, I would definitely go for the Elite model. Both versions have the high CR, but only the Elites will offer excellent color performance as well.

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post #7188 of 7982 Old 07-13-2008, 07:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

The 30 day price increase/decrease policy of Amazon is great and all but it doesn't benifit that many people. Sometimes it does.
I would not let that be a deciding factor in my choice becasue there is a possibility you won't benefit from it.
And when you receive the unit you need to inspect it on delivery. If they don't allow it then write "subject to inspection" when you sign for it. When I had my 6020 delivered from Robert, I wrote "subject to inspection" even though we plugged the TV up and verified there was video.
The speakers take a little while to put on and most delivery guys won't wait that long for you to verify the sound works. So I wrote "subject to inspection because I had no verified that the sound worked.
Signing "subject to inspection" keeps the shipping company liable for damages even after delivery.
If the set is damaged or won't power up then simply reject delivery. If you were not allowed to inspect, then call the forum sponsor (whichever one) and tell them your set doesn't work. More than likely they will expedite you a new set immediatly (Amazon does NOT do this). With Amazon, they have to recieve the bad unit back before they will send the replacement (which could take up to a week). And when they send the replacement, they WILL NOT expedite it to you. You have to wait the 1-2 weeks all over again. It took me almost 3 weeks to get the 1st replacement 6010 from amazon, Which turned out to be DOA also so I had to reject delivery again then wait almost a week for them to recieve the 2nd damaged set back, Only to be told that they were out of 6010 stock and I would be getting a refund (that took over 3 weeks for them to put back on my Credit card).

From what I was told by Robert @ ****************, You don't have to deal with all this mess with a forum sponsor. They expedite the replacement to you as soon as they find out that your set is DOA.
IMO it is the smarter move to deal with a company that specializes in shipping and customer service of large flat-panel televisions, than it is to deal with a company that sells everything under the sun like Amazon.

When you purchased from Robert...how long did it take from payment to delivery?
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post #7189 of 7982 Old 07-13-2008, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

I just calibrated the 50" Elite, and got excellent results. This is one case where manufacturer's claims are not just marketing hype.

I measured the on/off contrast as almost exactly double last year's models (28.2/0.0035 or 8,057:1 fL vs. 40.1/0.002 fL or 17,875:1).

What I find truly amazing about these displays is not the on/off CR, as great as it is (CRTs and the JVC RS2 front projector measure even higher). Where they are truly game-changing is their ANSI (checkerboard) CR. I got 6,500:1 on this set! This is 6 or 7 times better than any display I have ever encountered.

BTW, if you can afford it, I would definitely go for the Elite model. Both versions have the high CR, but only the Elites will offer excellent color performance as well.

6500:1



Tom, did you use the standard Controls or the ISFccc Interface?


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post #7190 of 7982 Old 07-13-2008, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jrcorwin View Post

When you purchased from Robert...how long did it take from payment to delivery?

From what I remember , it was about 6 buisness days. But I would have to go look up my records to find out for sure. I have heard of some getting them faster.
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Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

From what I remember , it was about 6 buisness days. But I would have to go look up my records to find out for sure. I have heard of some getting them faster.

Don't worry about looking it up. That sounds fine. I was curious. Thanks.
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post #7192 of 7982 Old 07-13-2008, 09:08 PM
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chadmak09,

Was your purchase from Amazon or one of their affiliate dealers?

Samsung 64F8500, Panasonic 65VT50, Oppo 95, Tivo Roamio for OTA, Dish VIP722, Marantz AV8801 preamp, Rotel Amps, Atlantic Tech 8200 speakers, Seaton Submersive HP, Calman 5, Chromapure, Accupel DVG-5000, i1Display3pro, i1pro2, eecolor colorbox.
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post #7193 of 7982 Old 07-13-2008, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by turbe View Post

6500:1



Tom, did you use the standard Controls or the ISFccc Interface?

The standard controls, which are quite good for this display.

Tom Huffman
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post #7194 of 7982 Old 07-13-2008, 11:30 PM
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The 30 day price increase/decrease policy of Amazon is great and all but it doesn't benifit that many people. Sometimes it does.
I would not let that be a deciding factor in my choice becasue there is a possibility you won't benefit from it.
And when you receive the unit you need to inspect it on delivery. If they don't allow it then write "subject to inspection" when you sign for it. When I had my 6020 delivered from Robert, I wrote "subject to inspection" even though we plugged the TV up and verified there was video.
The speakers take a while to put on and some delivery guys won't wait that long for you to verify the sound works. Instead of asking the delivery guys to wait whie I attached the speaker system, I just wrote "subject to inspection" because I had not verified that the sound worked.
Writing "subject to inspection" keeps the shipping company liable for damages even after delivery.
If the set is damaged or won't power up then simply reject delivery. If you were not allowed to inspect, then call the forum sponsor (whichever one) and tell them your set doesn't work. More than likely they will expedite you a new set immediatly (Amazon does NOT do this). With Amazon, they have to recieve the bad unit back before they will send the replacement (which could take up to a week). And when they send the replacement, they WILL NOT expedite it to you. You have to wait the 1-2 weeks all over again. It took me almost 3 weeks to get the 1st replacement 6010 from amazon, Which turned out to be DOA also so I had to reject delivery again then wait almost a week for them to recieve the 2nd damaged set back, Only to be told that they were out of 6010 stock and I would be getting a refund (that took over 3 weeks for them to put back on my Credit card).
I went thru over a month and a half of crap with amazon only to get my money back. What a big waste of time that was. And all the time there were people here on AVS telling me to go with a forum sponsor but I didn't.
From what I was told by Robert @ ****************, You don't have to deal with all this mess with a forum sponsor. They expedite the replacement to you as soon as they find out that your set is DOA.
IMO it is the smarter move to deal with a company that specializes in shipping and customer service of large flat-panel televisions, than it is to deal with a company that sells everything under the sun like Amazon.

Chad, was this bad experience with Amazon itself, or a third-party seller on their site? The reason I ask is because every time I have ever had to replace a defective product with Amazon (it was few times and never a big TV), they sent replacement immediately and gave me something like a month to send the defective item back. On the other hand, I have dealt with third-party sellers that I would now avoid like the plague....
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post #7195 of 7982 Old 07-14-2008, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

I just calibrated the 50" Elite, and got excellent results. This is one case where manufacturer's claims are not just marketing hype.

I measured the on/off contrast as almost exactly double last year's models (28.2/0.0035 or 8,057:1 fL vs. 40.1/0.002 fL or 17,875:1).

What I find truly amazing about these displays is not the on/off CR, as great as it is (CRTs and the JVC RS2 front projector measure even higher). Where they are truly game-changing is their ANSI (checkerboard) CR. I got 6,500:1 on this set! This is 6 or 7 times better than any display I have ever encountered.

BTW, if you can afford it, I would definitely go for the Elite model. Both versions have the high CR, but only the Elites will offer excellent color performance as well.

Tom,

In real world content what do 17,875:1 to 1 and 6,500:1 translate to?

Also, did you notice CS2 in accuracy as it was discussed a few days ago?
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post #7196 of 7982 Old 07-14-2008, 04:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Chad, was this bad experience with Amazon itself, or a third-party seller on their site? The reason I ask is because every time I have ever had to replace a defective product with Amazon (it was few times and never a big TV), they sent replacement immediately and gave me something like a month to send the defective item back. On the other hand, I have dealt with third-party sellers that I would now avoid like the plague....

This was amazon itself not a third party. I was just like you and avoided third partys. The 30 day return policy is why I ended up going with Amazon (but alot of good that did me with 2 dead TV's).
With televisions you have to send them back and before they send the replacement.
I had sent them an email asking all about this and got a response from India telling me there was no expediting of replacements and they have to confirm return delivery of the defective set before they will start the process of sending you a new one. Wish I would have saved that email I would post it for everyone.
And explaining that the replacement was also defective to the guy from India was not fun. I kept saying "I can't understand you, could you please repeat that sentence?" and the guy was actualy laughing at me like there was something wrong with me because I could not understand his accent. lol.
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post #7197 of 7982 Old 07-14-2008, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by tamaracks View Post

Tweeter loaded ours in the truck flat, too. They said it was more important to be upright when traveling for longer periods of time. It arrived home with no problems.

The are WRONG. You should always keep it vertical when transporting. It is glass, torsion will crack it. Even if the glass does not break you can have other problems. I had a NEC plasma delivered years ago that on its back that did not crack but the menus displayed in Klingon. I had it replaced.

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post #7198 of 7982 Old 07-14-2008, 06:44 AM
 
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Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

I just calibrated the 50" Elite, and got excellent results. This is one case where manufacturer's claims are not just marketing hype.

I measured the on/off contrast as almost exactly double last year's models (28.2/0.0035 or 8,057:1 fL vs. 40.1/0.002 fL or 17,875:1).

What I find truly amazing about these displays is not the on/off CR, as great as it is (CRTs and the JVC RS2 front projector measure even higher). Where they are truly game-changing is their ANSI (checkerboard) CR. I got 6,500:1 on this set! This is 6 or 7 times better than any display I have ever encountered.

BTW, if you can afford it, I would definitely go for the Elite model. Both versions have the high CR, but only the Elites will offer excellent color performance as well.

Wow, Tom.

This is just the sort of information I've been wanting. Thank you so much--you've saved me a big bunch of research time.

Yours,

David
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post #7199 of 7982 Old 07-14-2008, 07:07 AM
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I own the pro 111 fd that Tom Huffman calibrated yesterday and would say the difference in picture quality is very noticeable. Even the standard analog channels on Comcast come in much better. Watched a bluray disc last night and wow , it was just fantastic.
Tom did a great job and if you are in the Baltimore Washington area, I would highly recommend him to you. and yes he was very impressed with the contrast ratios on the checkerboard pattern. You have to see it to believe it. He also discovered that my film mode was off, not set to standard, smooth, or advanced, perhaps the factory settings are not that reliable. Something for prospective owners to check right away. This week I will be getting the new Pioneer vsx 1018AH receiver to complement the setup. Thanks again to Tom for a great job.
Mary
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post #7200 of 7982 Old 07-14-2008, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR1 View Post

In real world content what do 17,875:1 to 1 and 6,500:1 translate to?

The high on/off CR means that dark scenes will look realistic and not suffer from a gray haze that displays with significantly lower CR are often afflicted by. The effects of the high ANSI contrast are less well understood. It is one measure of the display's ability to produce intra-image contrast and it may have an effect on image depth, as on/off CR does as well.

By way of comparison, the latest Panasonics are about 4000:1 on/off, 800:1 ANSI. Now contrast is just one measurement of image performance. There are a lot of other factors that play a big role in how satisfying an image appears. For example, I really like the new Samsung plasmas and their contrast is a fraction of the Kuro's. The great thing about the Kuro Elites is that they seem to do just about everything else well also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR1 View Post

Also, did you notice CS2 in accuracy as it was discussed a few days ago?

Absolutely. In Color Space 2, the color is scarily accurate. The only tweaks I made were some minor adjustments to the secondaries in the CMS. I also had to turn the main Color control up a couple of ticks, because the color brightness was a little low by default. This may have been what a couple of reviewers saw when they reported that CS2 measured well but preferred CS1 because CS2 looked like it was clipping color. All they had to do was adjust the Color control a little.

After those two small adjustments, in the CS2 mode this display's color is very close to perfect. Putting it in CS1 would be a big mistake IHMO.

Tom Huffman
ChromaPure Software/AccuPel Video Signal Generators
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