The Official Pioneer 9G non-Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 100 - AVS Forum
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post #2971 of 15008 Old 08-16-2008, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlsim View Post

By most accounts grayscale has been good on the NE out of box, I know it is on mine although I look forward to nailing it even better with ControlCAL.

I see there is an ISF profile for the 9G Elite's but none yet for the 9G NE's. I wonder when the profile for the NE's will be available OR if the Elite profiles would work with the NE's
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post #2972 of 15008 Old 08-17-2008, 02:18 AM
 
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It's now been over a month since that Amazon bargain and the price has been sitting at the high point ever since. I couldn't order at the time as I was about to leave for vacation. Frustrating.
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post #2973 of 15008 Old 08-17-2008, 05:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlsim View Post

Actually this was an issue they found on their elite that they did not find on the non-elite Kuro.
It seems like the real world impact on PQ was minimal on the elite btw although they apparently find some minor issues with white.

Interesting, I guess I skimmed through the review a bit quickly at first, nice to know they didn't see that on the non elites even if it's impact was minimal. I'm pretty excited for HT's review, first real review other than D-Nice's (I don't put much stock in anything CNET says). Even though I know it'll be pretty favorable it's always nice to read reviews

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post #2974 of 15008 Old 08-17-2008, 05:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick. View Post

According to the review we can expect a 9G non elite review from Home Theater too, yay! I found it interesting they mentioned it slightly clipped above white, have any other forum members noticed this on the elites/non elites?

Unfortunately Ultimate A/V's review of the 111FD is riddled with questionable items:
  • Posted settings don't correlate with the charts or hard numbers
  • Charts don't match the hard numbers
  • Suspect 480i DVD results as none of the listed equipment is able to output an unaltered 480i signal (Unless their 5910 is SDI modded)

Although HD Guru's 111FD was riddled with typos, IMO it was a much better review.
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post #2975 of 15008 Old 08-17-2008, 06:13 AM
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So hard to find a good and honest review these days, they always seem to have a hidden agenda. One thing that makes me a bit angry is how some magazines tend to rate pretty much anything as very good or better. It seems like a lot of the magazine/online reviews are more about marketing these days and who pays more to get it. Those errors you mentioned are pretty glaring, especially for one of the most awaited displays of the year. One has to wonder whether they were intentional, especially with the experienced staff they have at their disposal.

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post #2976 of 15008 Old 08-17-2008, 06:16 AM
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Hi everyone, I have been dithering around between the elite and non-elite kuros for a while... yesterday morning while making my weekly trip to Costco, I found they had maybe 10 6020's for sale... The price was enough to persuade me.. I know there is no price talk on this forum but the first number was a 4 the second a 2... the rest you can guess (oodles less than BB). given that this company has a wonderful return policy I snapped one up. They were all July builds, and apart from some creative machining to make my pre-existing wallmount (from a 46 inch XBR2) work with the goofy spacing of the mounting screws all is very very well. no buzzing, no green tints etc that have been mentioned here, and best of all NO CLOUDS! (check the sony lcd forum if you are unaware of this problem). so for all you wall sitters, maybe a trip to CC is in order!
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post #2977 of 15008 Old 08-17-2008, 06:17 AM
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No review but the negatives i find with the 9g are green and yellow are not as accurate as i would like. Grayscale has errors, green push. Color seems to get in the way with blacks and is hard to correct.
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post #2978 of 15008 Old 08-17-2008, 06:22 AM
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My grayscale seems very good especially coming from a Panasonic PZ85 which had a very green tint to it when set to warm. At least the color decoding is good so you can fix the errors once we get access to the grayscale.

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post #2979 of 15008 Old 08-17-2008, 06:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues View Post

No review but the negatives i find with the 9g are green and yellow are not as accurate as i would like.

Based on what?

Quote:


Grayscale has errors, green push.

You mean your grayscale is plus green. You have three options to fix that:
  • By a Chroma 5 or i1pro with CalMAN and calibrate your own panel
  • Hire a competent ISF calibrator to do it for you
  • Wait for my settings that address your issue

Quote:


Color seems to get in the way with blacks and is hard to correct.

Then you have your color and/or low end grayscale screwed up.
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post #2980 of 15008 Old 08-17-2008, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Based on what?

Based on comparing same scenes on my crt monitor. Green is more green and yellow is more yellow.

Quote:


You mean your grayscale is plus green. You have three options to fix that:
  • By a Chroma 5 or i1pro with CalMAN and calibrate your own panel
  • Hire a competent ISF calibrator to do it for you
  • Wait for my settings that address your issue

Then you have your color and/or low end grayscale screwed up.


Low end yup. Do you acknowledge a green error dnice? Do different models, serial numbers make a difference?
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post #2981 of 15008 Old 08-17-2008, 06:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues View Post

Based on comparing same scenes on my crt monitor. Green is more green and yellow is more yellow.

Is your CRT HD? Is it calibrated? IF so, when?

Quote:


Low end yup. Do you acknowledge a green error dnice? Do different models, serial numbers make a difference?

HEPM serial numbered panels were plus green with the default Manual color temp setting in Pure Mode. All others are perfectly fine. The plus green is quite easy to fix and DOES NOT require one to touch the Green High/Low controls.
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post #2982 of 15008 Old 08-17-2008, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Is your CRT HD? Is it calibrated? IF so, when?

No. Bone stock crt sony monitor. Take my opinion with a grain of salt. But out of the box settings green-yellow- with any adjustments does not look as good as the crt.



Quote:


HEPM serial numbered panels were plus green with the default Manual color temp setting in Pure Mode. All others are perfectly fine. The plus green is quite easy to fix and DOES NOT require one to touch the Green High/Low controls.


If the green is a error in the grayscale you would not need touch green high low controls? Then what?
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post #2983 of 15008 Old 08-17-2008, 07:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues View Post

No. Bone stock crt sony monitor. Take my opinion with a grain of salt. But out of the box settings green-yellow- with any adjustments does not look as good as the crt.

So you are comparied a non-calibrated HD 9G to a non-calibrated SD CRT and are justifying it does not look as good as the CRT???? Take the 9G back or properly calibrate both to the same standards.

Quote:


If the green is a error in the grayscale you would not need touch green high low controls? Then what?

We have already had ths discussion last week. I already explained to you what controls you should use.
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post #2984 of 15008 Old 08-17-2008, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlsim View Post

Cnet btw found excellent color decoding on the XX20

The color accuracy issue was primary colors not being aligned to HD Rec.709 which may even by be "functions as designed" as far as Pioneer is concerned. They may have intended to be a bit more saturated in color using Colorspace 1.
The fact that Optimum also oversaturates color a bit might also indicate something about Pioneers intention. Many people simply prefer a bit more color it appears:

I think it's likely true that Pioneer designed slight color saturation into its 9G line. Many watch TV in rather brightly lit rooms, me too. I noticed that when I applied D-Nice's recommended settings to my 6020, the color, which he recommended be set at -4, was not quite saturated enough for me, so I increased it to the Pioneer default, -2, which looked better. I also increased the contrast from D-Nice's recommended 38 to the Pioneer default setting of 40. In all other respects, though, D-Nice's recommended settings improved my 6020's PQ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick. View Post

So hard to find a good and honest review these days, they always seem to have a hidden agenda. One thing that makes me a bit angry is how some magazines tend to rate pretty much anything as very good or better.

It seems to me that these days virtually all plasmas, indeed, all HDTVs, are very good or better. We AVSers tend to obsess over weaknesses which the great mass of consumers don't even notice or think are trivial, not that that's a bad thing.
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post #2985 of 15008 Old 08-17-2008, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

.
We have already had ths discussion last week. I already explained to you what controls you should use.


Last week you said their was no green in the grayscale in pure mode and now you say there is? I don't believe you said how to eliminate it. Color management?
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post #2986 of 15008 Old 08-17-2008, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues View Post

Based on comparing same scenes on my crt monitor. Green is more green and yellow is more yellow.

What size is your CRT monitor's screen?
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post #2987 of 15008 Old 08-17-2008, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues View Post

Last week you said their was no green in the grayscale in pure mode and now you say there is? I don't believe you said how to eliminate it. Color management?

i think you need to read the settings/issues thread.
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post #2988 of 15008 Old 08-17-2008, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

What size is your CRT monitor's screen?


19in. If your point is color is better due to the smaller screen, that would be a good point
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post #2989 of 15008 Old 08-17-2008, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

i think you need to read the settings/issues thread.

Unless you can convince me, i'm convinced G-low is the best way to remove it.
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post #2990 of 15008 Old 08-17-2008, 07:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues View Post

Unless you can convince me, i'm convinced G-low is the best way to remove it.

I've already told you how to remove the plus green. We had a LONG discussion about it the settings/issues thread. You can do as you choose with your panel. However, Green is NOT the control you need to be using....especially if you are doing this by eye.

BTW, here is an excellent beginner's guide if you want to properly calibrate your panel. It even discusses the Green High/Low control and why you should not touch it:

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457
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post #2991 of 15008 Old 08-17-2008, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I've already told you how to remove the plus green. We had a LONG discussion about it the settings/issues thread. You can do as you choose with your panel. However, Green is NOT the control you need to be using....especially if you are doing this by eye.


So what control do you use? I would not ask if you already said.
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post #2992 of 15008 Old 08-17-2008, 07:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues View Post

So what control do you use? I would not ask if you already said.

Use the Red and Blue High controls.
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post #2993 of 15008 Old 08-17-2008, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Use the Red and Blue High controls.

Thanks. Ill report my findings in the settings thread.
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post #2994 of 15008 Old 08-17-2008, 08:53 AM
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Magnolia just delivered a buzzing 6020, so for those considering the set you may want to look at the buzz thread first. Not trying to bring the discussion here at all, just wanted new people to be aware that it is there.
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post #2995 of 15008 Old 08-17-2008, 10:39 AM
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WOW. 60% have buzzing of which 31% have trouble with it!

not good!
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post #2996 of 15008 Old 08-17-2008, 11:00 AM
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80% of all statistics are made up on the spot
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post #2997 of 15008 Old 08-17-2008, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Based on what?

You mean your grayscale is plus green. You have three options to fix that:
  • By a Chroma 5 or i1pro with CalMAN and calibrate your own panel
  • Hire a competent ISF calibrator to do it for you
  • Wait for my settings that address your issue

Then you have your color and/or low end grayscale screwed up.

Hey D,

Any update on when you will be releasing the 9G Non-Elite calibration instructions?
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post #2998 of 15008 Old 08-17-2008, 11:09 AM
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.
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post #2999 of 15008 Old 08-17-2008, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by DFul4d View Post

.

Don't do that.
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post #3000 of 15008 Old 08-17-2008, 12:03 PM
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.

uh oh, now i have a dead pixel on my monitor

HD HD HD I Need more HD, Yes I am a HD Addict :)
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