The Official Pioneer 9G non-Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 127 - AVS Forum
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post #3781 of 15008 Old 09-28-2008, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by ROMAN O View Post

Correct and also try running Pixar animated DVD's for a few days and see if they clear up, just an option

Any movie in particular that works well for people? Thanks
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post #3782 of 15008 Old 09-28-2008, 07:45 AM
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I have to make a decision this week.

I hate to ask but what do you all see as superior for the 6020 when comparing the two? What should I be looking for?

Now you are really going to hate me;
When I am in the store, how can I adjust the KURO to make the whites whiter, not brighter?

If you could get the Pana 65" for $4700. would you get that instead?
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post #3783 of 15008 Old 09-28-2008, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Swerve View Post

Now you are really going to hate me;
When I am in the store, how can I adjust the KURO to make the whites whiter, not brighter?

Switch it to a mode that has a higher color temperature (optimum, performance, dynamic).

What is dead can never die. Long live my 151!
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post #3784 of 15008 Old 09-28-2008, 09:53 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason30 View Post

Any movie in particular that works well for people? Thanks

Try The Incredibles, good luck!
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post #3785 of 15008 Old 09-28-2008, 02:36 PM
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just finished watching pirates of the carribbean on my spankin new 6020 using d-nice ref settings and the pq is unbelievable. i think i'm gonna have to buy more bluray movies now. the quality is so amazing its like the tv is an open box and the people are living inside it! looks so real! hard to explain but i'm awe struck!

still in the break in phase barely have 22 hrs on the tv but i wanna go out to blockbuster and rent all their bluray movies. if anyone is contemplating buying the 60 inch do it now! i had a 42inch panny and the difference is incredible! 60 is definitely not too big.
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post #3786 of 15008 Old 09-28-2008, 03:31 PM
 
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syk69 good to hear!
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post #3787 of 15008 Old 09-28-2008, 07:06 PM
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A question to 5020FD owners (sorry if asked before).
Does this TV flicker at 24p (72Hz) mode?
The Panasonic PZ800U does flicker badly.
Thank you.
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post #3788 of 15008 Old 09-28-2008, 07:38 PM
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The TV doesn't flicker at 72Hz noticeably like the TVs that display @ 48Hz.

"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx
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post #3789 of 15008 Old 09-28-2008, 08:13 PM
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Well, I did it, again! Since last month the 6020 from the big river was delivered with 3 cracks (and I refused), I ended up just now reordered another 6020 from the sponsor (top of this thread) for a very decent price (well below the big river's).

My only concerns now are geting a "good" one: no unbearable buzzing sound, dead/stuck pixel, etc., and most importantly I hope I can live without the adjustments in the Elite model...

Just a heads-up: I will be needing your input on setting up, tuning pq, etc., etc., in a week or two. The waiting part is going to be tough! ;-)

Thank you all on this and the Elite threat for the decision to pick the KURO for the second time instead of the Panny 58pz850 that I was seriously looking into. I just couldn't justify forking out over anther $1k for the 151/Elite... Hope I made the right choice! ;-)
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post #3790 of 15008 Old 09-29-2008, 01:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LKM466 View Post

...and most importantly I hope I can live without the adjustments in the Elite model...

I just couldn't justify forking out over anther $1k for the 151/Elite... Hope I made the right choice! ;-)

Get it professionally calibrated after the break-in period and you'll be just fine...

-THTS
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post #3791 of 15008 Old 09-29-2008, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syk69 View Post

just finished watching pirates of the carribbean on my spankin new 6020 using d-nice ref settings and the pq is unbelievable. i think i'm gonna have to buy more bluray movies now. the quality is so amazing its like the tv is an open box and the people are living inside it! looks so real! hard to explain but i'm awe struck!

still in the break in phase barely have 22 hrs on the tv but i wanna go out to blockbuster and rent all their bluray movies. if anyone is contemplating buying the 60 inch do it now! i had a 42inch panny and the difference is incredible! 60 is definitely not too big.

The 6020's PQ is a gift that keeps on giving. Although I have had mine for nearly 2 months, When I watched the BD edition of Kill Bill 2 yesterday, I was blown away by its PQ. It was simply amazing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank J Manrique View Post

Get it [your new 6020] professionally calibrated after the break-in period and you'll be just fine...

Or don't worry about calibration at all. Many 6020 owners, including me, have found the readily available adjustments for the 6020 provided by Pioneer to be more than adequate. Not everybody agrees, of course, but that's my take.
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post #3792 of 15008 Old 09-29-2008, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Aetherhole View Post

The TV doesn't flicker at 72Hz noticeably like the TVs that display @ 48Hz.

I've seen this sort of statement before - so this isn't taking the poster to task, I'd just like to take this opportunity to defend the innocent 48Hz and point the prosecution at the real perpetrator.

If there's flicker on a display operating at 48Hz, it's a design problem, not a 48Hz problem. Movie projectors flash frames at 48Hz (2 flashes per film frame) and nobody thinks images flicker in movie theaters... though we may wish for more frames per second so motion wasn't so blurry (that's a whole different issue). The problem with visible flicker at 48Hz is caused by a manufacturer's design problem... when you display an image at any given frequency, you want the image on the screen as long as possible and you want the "inter-frame" time to be as small as possible. Meaning when the display changes from 1 frame to the next, you want the "blank" space between frames to be as small as possible. When you have a poor design, the image is on the screen for too short of a period of time and there's too much "inter-frame" time when the screen is blank. That makes flicker... not the 48Hz rate.

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post #3793 of 15008 Old 09-29-2008, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

If there's flicker on a display operating at 48Hz, it's a design problem, not a 48Hz problem.

Let me take this opportunity to get a "second opinion".
I am going to make a very expensive transfer to the Pioneer 5020FD just to get rid of 24p flickering on the Panasonic.

What does your experience say about 24p flickering on the 5020FD?

Thank you.
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post #3794 of 15008 Old 09-29-2008, 11:38 AM
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I would say that it will make a big difference for you, video. Honestly, when I was dealing mostly with CRT monitors even at 60Hz flicker was noticeable. Any refresh rate under 60Hz was downright annoying. I always tried to put my CRT monitors at 75Hz.

"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx
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post #3795 of 15008 Old 09-29-2008, 11:43 AM
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Seems like no matter what I am watching, I'm always reaching for the brightness and color controls tweaking them up and down to where ever I like it based on the supplied signal from TV/DVD/Blu/Games. Anyone else always futz with their view like this?

That said, I won't be getting a pro calibration even though I KNOW it IS THE BEST way to setup the screen. I have DVD and BD versions of "DVE" and they work well enough for me. What are Kuro owner's perspective of the DVE disks? I've read most of this thread but saw very little mention of DVE. I find the contrast parts seem to feel pretty accurate, but the color and tint due to the colored gels supplied, seem a tad too much. A happy medium tween normal and what the gels tell me is my sweet spot. And then I dink with it per program anyway.

Other's experience with DVE disks? Good and bad? Just curious
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post #3796 of 15008 Old 09-29-2008, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

(Amazon's price adjustment policy after 30 days has been discontinued, so there was little incentive for me to purchase through them anymore).

Just realized this after I had already ordered my 5020fd from them and the price has already dropped $100....

The AVS sponsors are also noticeably cheaper.

I may have to refuse shipment from Amazon, ugh.
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post #3797 of 15008 Old 09-29-2008, 04:43 PM
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A couple of months ago I bought a 5010 from Costco at what seemed like a great price. Then suddenly the price of the 5020 dropped during the current promotional timeframe. I got a very good price from Plasma Concepts and did not have to pay for shipping or sales tax and saved about $500.00 (Thanks Plasma Concepts!). So the 5010 is going back to Costco. I loved the PQ of the 5010 and the PQ of the 5020 may be slightly better. It seems to display SD content better, especially SD DVDs and of course HD content is stellar as it was with the 5010. The 5020 seems much more energy efficient then the 5010. The 5010 put out heat like a space heater, even in movie mode with the power saving feature on. The 5020 is much cooler and the power saving modes don't reduce the brightness much at all. I leave it in power save mode 2 all the time. There is no hum at all either unless I put my ear right up to the panel. And the screen was pixel perfect as was the 5010. Another noticeable improvement is the Optimum mode. Some shows/movies look better in Movie mode (using modified settings from D-nice: -15 sharpness looks REALLY, REALLY, REALLY soft), while other shows/movies look stunning in the Optimum mode. I try both settings with each viewing and use the best look. All the other modes look very bad to my eye. I love the warm colors and sharp crisp picture these modes give without being too over-the-top.

However, there are some definite downgrades with the 5020:

1. There is no TV Guide, a very handy feature of the 5010. I use Vista Media Center for TV which has it's own excellent guide so it's really not a big deal for me but my wife and daughter like to just turn on the TV and watch directly sometimes and they liked the TV Guide of the 5010.

2. Also there is only one cable/antenna connector. The 5010 has one for digital and one for analog. If you want to connect both to the 5020 you have to use a splitter in reverse which may cause further signal degredation to my already several times split cable feed.

3. They also left out cable card support which the 5010 had. My analog feed from Charter is not great and they only have 3 local channels in Digital Clear QAM. I was going to get a cable card so I could have my basic cable stations fed digitally. Now I'd have to resort to a clunky, funky, more expensive cable box if I want to go basic digital. I am hoping that Charter will go Clear QAM after the digital transition but I kind of doubt it. Their tech support has no information on this and did not even know that three local channels were already unscrambled.

But all in all, I'm very happy. My four over-the-air HD channels are simply awesome and Blue Ray is jaw dropping. Analog cable is surprisingly good but would be better in SD digital. In response to an early post about letting the 5020 up convert verses letting the DVD player do the work. My Sony BDP-BX1 Blue Ray player up converts noticeably better than the 5010 or the 5020. It's really not even close. Some SD DVDs look very close to BR disks with this player doing the upconversion.

So I'm a mostly happy 5020 owner. Overall, I would definitely recommend it.
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post #3798 of 15008 Old 09-29-2008, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by video313 View Post

Let me take this opportunity to get a "second opinion".
I am going to make a very expensive transfer to the Pioneer 5020FD just to get rid of 24p flickering on the Panasonic.

What does your experience say about 24p flickering on the 5020FD?

Thank you.

I watch everything on advanced mode (72hz) and I have not seen any flicker whatsoever. THe panasonic flicker is pretty bad, I didn't realize it until I got my 5020. Advanced mode or normal...smooth is just weird looking to me.
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post #3799 of 15008 Old 09-30-2008, 02:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackass414 View Post

I watch everything on advanced mode (72hz) and I have not seen any flicker whatsoever. THe panasonic flicker is pretty bad, I didn't realize it until I got my 5020. Advanced mode or normal...smooth is just weird looking to me.

Smooth is broken... every movie has at least 1 problem spot during horizontal or diagonal motion... the object gets ghosty and jumps forward and backward.

Advance mode... has always looked perfect to me... well, movies aren't perfect re. motion... 24fps just isn't enough frames (or fast enough frames) to capture motion clearly. When you take a still photo of motion, most of the time you want to be at 1/250th of a second or faster. 24fps movie film is exposed at MUCH slower shutter speeds so when there is motion, it's always blurred badly (use pause to see how bad it is... it can be VERY blurred). So in Advance mode, you see exactly what was captured on film for better or for worse. But you don't get the odd motion problems you see in Smooth mode at times. Standard mode is just plain old 3:2 pulldown and 60Hz which defeats the whole purpose of using 24p... the Pioneer simply duplicates 6 frames per second to get 30fps and doubles that to get 60fps/Hz so you may as well set the player to 60p output... same difference. The other mode, Off, is used when the player is sending 60p... you don't want PureCinema trying to add 3:2 pulldown to something that already has 3:2 pulldown.

Edit (fixed a couple of typos 10-1-08)

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post #3800 of 15008 Old 09-30-2008, 03:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aetherhole View Post

I would say that it will make a big difference for you, video. Honestly, when I was dealing mostly with CRT monitors even at 60Hz flicker was noticeable. Any refresh rate under 60Hz was downright annoying. I always tried to put my CRT monitors at 75Hz.

CRTs have a whole different set of issues... they don't fill the entire screen at the same time. And if the lighting is fluorescent, it flickers at 60Hz (in the US) which interacts with the monitors' 60Hz rate making the flicker considerably more noticeable than if the ambient light is sunlight or tungsten light. When monitors started switching to phosphors with less persistence (for video and animation), that further made the 60Hz scanning more visible. Plasma and LCD displays flash entire frames all at once... something CRTs couldn't/can't do so flicker is a whole different deal with modern display technology.

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post #3801 of 15008 Old 09-30-2008, 09:49 AM
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Friends, my 5020 was delivered yesterday, and I have some questions concerning the way it was packaged.

I was dissapointed to see the bezel, screen, and base were covered with dirt and dust. Enough that I could have written my name in it.

I paid the guy to help me get it out of the carton and set it up on my AV stand, and ensure I could get a picture out of it. I hooked the TV up to my Dish Network reciever, and turned the TV on. I got a picture, and the delivery guy was on his way.

After he left I started cleaning the TV up with water and a soft cloth. It was then that I noticed the base (which came attached to the TV ?) had a couple of marks or mars on it. It's in a fairly dark room, so I cannot see if there are any scratches on the bezzel or screen.

I called the vendor and was told to call Pioneer. After waiting 5 miutes on the phone I explained the issue to the customer services rep. She told me that it is a "cosmetic" issue and told me that Pioneer would not cover it. I was told to go back to the vendor, who is working on it now.

It occured to me later in the evening that there was no protective film over the bezel, screen, or base. You know, that stuff the electronics manufacturers put over glass etc. that can scratch easily.

Should there have been? Or is this the way all of these TVs are packaged? I'd like to know as I wrote on the receipt "subject to inspection". O yea, putting the boxing away this morning I noticed a good size hole made buy the arm of a fork lift. Maybe that's where all the dirt and dust got in.

Your input will be very much appreciated. I know what I have written might sound silly to some of you, but these are the most expensive TVs on the market, and we should hold Pioneer to a higher standard. JMO...

Steve
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post #3802 of 15008 Old 09-30-2008, 10:14 AM
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Mine was a bit like that, not that bad. It's mostly micro scratches on the bezel you can see with a lot of light, the screen is flawless. There was some dirty spots on the bezel too that cleaned off easily. I found it a bit disappointing too that Pioneer doesn't go futher to protect their TVs.

Be a fan of displays, not companies or technologies!
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post #3803 of 15008 Old 09-30-2008, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Patrick. View Post

Mine was a bit like that, not that bad. It's mostly micro scratches on the bezel you can see with a lot of light, the screen is flawless. There was some dirty spots on the bezel too that cleaned off easily. I found it a bit disappointing too that Pioneer doesn't go futher to protect their TVs.

Wow, I was going to have my wife inspect it while I was at work, but now I don't know.

Does everyone recommend testing the picture too or is checking for physical defects enough?
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post #3804 of 15008 Old 09-30-2008, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by OGHowie View Post

Wow, I was going to have my wife inspect it while I was at work, but now I don't know.

Does everyone recommend testing the picture too or is checking for physical defects enough?

same here, guess I should go home
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post #3805 of 15008 Old 09-30-2008, 01:19 PM
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smkuhn,

what was the shipping company?

thx
jeff
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post #3806 of 15008 Old 09-30-2008, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smkuhn View Post

Friends, my 5020 was delivered yesterday, and I have some questions concerning the way it was packaged.

I was dissapointed to see the bezel, screen, and base were covered with dirt and dust. Enough that I could have written my name in it.

I paid the guy to help me get it out of the carton and set it up on my AV stand, and ensure I could get a picture out of it. I hooked the TV up to my Dish Network reciever, and turned the TV on. I got a picture, and the delivery guy was on his way.

After he left I started cleaning the TV up with water and a soft cloth. It was then that I noticed the base (which came attached to the TV ?) had a couple of marks or mars on it. It's in a fairly dark room, so I cannot see if there are any scratches on the bezzel or screen.

I called the vendor and was told to call Pioneer. After waiting 5 miutes on the phone I explained the issue to the customer services rep. She told me that it is a "cosmetic" issue and told me that Pioneer would not cover it. I was told to go back to the vendor, who is working on it now.

It occured to me later in the evening that there was no protective film over the bezel, screen, or base. You know, that stuff the electronics manufacturers put over glass etc. that can scratch easily.

Should there have been? Or is this the way all of these TVs are packaged? I'd like to know as I wrote on the receipt "subject to inspection". O yea, putting the boxing away this morning I noticed a good size hole made buy the arm of a fork lift. Maybe that's where all the dirt and dust got in.

Your input will be very much appreciated. I know what I have written might sound silly to some of you, but these are the most expensive TVs on the market, and we should hold Pioneer to a higher standard. JMO...

Steve

My 5020 came with a lot of dust too.
The bezel continues to be a dust magnet.
But, boy, what a beautiful picture!
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post #3807 of 15008 Old 09-30-2008, 02:18 PM
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Anyone use DVE disc to "pseudo-calibrate" their Kuro?

Also, I watched my old BRAVEHEART DVD upscaled on PS3... I noticed facial skin pores jumping in and out of focus every second or so. It IS possible the disc compression is doing this and I never noticed it until I got this 6020. BUT, could it also be caused by TV settings? Like ORBITER or video mode or Cinema settings? I can't find another disc with comparble filming to test aginst BRAVEHEART. I may have seen this on OTA broadcasts - grass on football field - I assume it's thier transmission?
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post #3808 of 15008 Old 09-30-2008, 02:54 PM
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wwjd,

I've found that effect about the pores on my 7g Pioneer plasma. In my case at least, I found that I had the sharpening up a bit too high. By lowering the sharpening, it actually gave me more detail with close up face shots appearing sharper.

When you use one of the calibration DVDs, it presumes that your DVD player isn't adding or subtracting anything from the picture. Depending on your player, cable/satellite box, etc. doing a calibration may not necessarily help the other component. To further complicate things, if your player upconverts, then you're not likely to be getting the exact same signal as you would with a signal generator.

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post #3809 of 15008 Old 09-30-2008, 04:33 PM
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How concerned should I be about "direct sunlight" on my 5020? it's placed right in front of a window with about a third of the screen exposed to the sun (from behind) I have blinds should this be a concern? I just noticed today this was on the "checklist" in the manual.
Thanks in advance.
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post #3810 of 15008 Old 09-30-2008, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_DML View Post

smkuhn,

what was the shipping company?

thx
jeff

Jeff, the company was AIT Worldwide, who contracts to different companies. In my case the company was called Thrift Trucking. They only sent one guy and he was having such a time gettting it to my door that I finally went out and helped him carry it in.

However, I am more concerned with the issue concerning the marrs in the paint on the TV's base. I bought my 5020from one of our forum vendors, and hope I don't end up regretting it.

Right now, instead of taking my word and replacing the base, the rep says I have to take digital pictures that show the marrs in the paint.

That doesn't sit too good with me, as I do not own a digital camera, and am not confident I will be able to get a clear picture since it is not down to bare metal.

I say ship me a new base, and I'll switch it out. Then send the original back so he can see I'm not just making this up (why on earth would anyone do that?)!

Hell, if I had bought at BB, the problem would have been fixed by now, or they would be getting the TV back.

I'll wait a few more days and see how our forum vendor responds. After all, it's just a base, not the whole TV. What a hassel...
smkuhn is offline  
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Pioneer , Pioneer Pdp 5020fd 50 Inch 1080p Kuro Plasma Hdtv , Pioneer Pdp 6020fd 60 Inch Class Kuro Plasma Hdtv
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