The Official Pioneer 9G non-Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 140 - AVS Forum
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post #4171 of 15008 Old 10-20-2008, 07:29 AM
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On uk sets it's in option menu, page 2. Drive mode 1 is 72hz, 2 is 100hz, and 3 is 75hz.

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

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post #4172 of 15008 Old 10-20-2008, 10:36 AM
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Have been checking out the prices of the Pro-110, trying to determine how far the Pro-111 price may drop, and in what time frame. Was going to go with the 5020, but just sold off a large chunk of my air jordan collection, so maybe considering going with the elite. Though I am not willing to pay the price now for the elite, I am wondering if in the next 4-5 months how much the price will fall, maybe around 3200-3500? Also does anyone know if Amazon will ever have it in stock?
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post #4173 of 15008 Old 10-20-2008, 10:41 AM
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I'm getting motion blur on my 5020 too. Sometimes it's real noticeable and makes me slightly dizzy. I,m using a cable box and have 5020 set to Movie Mode, Pure Cinema on. Can't recall other settings as I'm not at home right now.

Has anyone been able to reduce or eliminate this effect via combination of settings. My set is fairly new and I have to admit that I'm still confused about which settings are best for certain types of material viewed.

Any advice from experienced owners would be helpful. Tx!
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post #4174 of 15008 Old 10-20-2008, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobssurfin View Post

I'm getting motion blur on my 5020 too. Sometimes it's real noticeable and makes me slightly dizzy. I,m using a cable box and have 5020 set to Movie Mode, Pure Cinema on. Can't recall other settings as I'm not at home right now.

Has anyone been able to reduce or eliminate this effect via combination of settings. My set is fairly new and I have to admit that I'm still confused about which settings are best for certain types of material viewed.

Any advice from experienced owners would be helpful. Tx!

it's much better with PureCinema set to OFF. it's rather interesting that the blur gets pretty bad when viewing Satellite TV when i had PC set to Advance. from what i understand Advance should only kick in when 24Hz signal is detected, which shouldnt happen with satellite broadcasts.

i see about the same amount of blur with Standard or Advance, much better with PureCinema turned off. the blur is mostly okay, but especially bad when watching Law & Order on TNT.
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post #4175 of 15008 Old 10-20-2008, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkcheng122 View Post

it's much better with PureCinema set to OFF. it's rather interesting that the blur gets pretty bad when viewing Satellite TV when i had PC set to Advance. from what i understand Advance should only kick in when 24Hz signal is detected, which shouldnt happen with satellite broadcasts.

i see about the same amount of blur with Standard or Advance, much better with PureCinema turned off. the blur is mostly okay, but especially bad when watching Law & Order on TNT.

from the owners manual

Quote:


Advance (not available for input
signals 1080p @60 Hz)

basically I read that it should work basically for anything it detects 3:2 pull down which would include movies on satellite, most network non reality shows are shot in 24 fps too.

(fyi, DISH has 1080 24fps video on demand)
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post #4176 of 15008 Old 10-20-2008, 01:06 PM
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The motion blur that I'm referring to is when watching a movie or show for example, on a cable HD channel. When the camera used in producing the film appears to pan left or right, it's almost like a fish eye lens effect and makes me a little dizzy to watch. Fast moving sports, on the other hand, are not a problem. I have a Sharp 46" 1080P 120Mhz that doesn't do this at all.

What I'll try next is jkcheng122's suggestion of turning Pure Cinema off. Does any other setting or combination of settings help?
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post #4177 of 15008 Old 10-20-2008, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobssurfin View Post

The motion blur that I'm referring to is when watching a movie or show for example, on a cable HD channel. When the camera used in producing the film appears to pan left or right, it's almost like a fish eye lens effect and makes me a little dizzy to watch. Fast moving sports, on the other hand, are not a problem. I have a Sharp 46" 1080P 120Mhz that doesn't do this at all.

What I'll try next is jkcheng122's suggestion of turning Pure Cinema off. Does any other setting or combination of settings help?

you might have my curse since my symptoms sound like yours. No combination works for me, I have found scenes in programs that cause your description on my dvr and have tried all the Pure cinema settings to no avail. I am thinking it is just in my head now and I subconsciously looking for motion blur I think I started it by looking for smoother motion using 72hz advance setting.
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post #4178 of 15008 Old 10-20-2008, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_DML View Post

you might have my curse since my symptoms sound like yours. No combination works for me, I have found scenes in programs that cause your description on my dvr and have tried all the Pure cinema settings to no avail. I am thinking it is just in my head now and I subconsciously looking for motion blur I think I started it by looking for smoother motion using 72hz advance setting.

If you're right, then this is annoying for such a nice tv otherwise. It doesn't happen on every station, but still is a problem.

Have you experienced this issue playing HD/Bluray movies in 1080P/24 fps? If yes, what can be done? I just hooked up my Pioneer BDP-51FD player but have not played a movie on it yet. The only thing I did so far was to upgrade the FW to v1.02
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post #4179 of 15008 Old 10-20-2008, 03:01 PM
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What is the Evangelo2's Break-in DVD and Thumbdrive Files in the first post, and what is it used for?
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post #4180 of 15008 Old 10-20-2008, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by florida61 View Post

What is the Evangelo2's Break-in DVD and Thumbdrive Files in the first post, and what is it used for?

used for breaking in the tv. plasmas have a break-in period to reach full potential performance, and this disc or the thumbdrive is designed to help break in the panel properly.
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post #4181 of 15008 Old 10-20-2008, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_DML View Post

from the owners manual



basically I read that it should work basically for anything it detects 3:2 pull down which would include movies on satellite, most network non reality shows are shot in 24 fps too.

(fyi, DISH has 1080 24fps video on demand)

i had figured all broadcasts are at either 1080i/30 or 720p/60, and not 24Hz.

it's funny DISH for a while advertised their 1080p as "same quality" as blu-ray. now they corrected themselves to say "same resolution" as blu-ray.
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post #4182 of 15008 Old 10-20-2008, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkcheng122 View Post

i had figured all broadcasts are at either 1080i/30 or 720p/60, and not 24Hz.

it's funny DISH for a while advertised their 1080p as "same quality" as blu-ray. now they corrected themselves to say "same resolution" as blu-ray.

they are minus that VOD comment but 24 fps sources exist in 60 fields/frames per second sources

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3:2_pulldown#3:2_pulldown
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post #4183 of 15008 Old 10-20-2008, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkcheng122 View Post

used for breaking in the tv. plasmas have a break-in period to reach full potential performance, and this disc or the thumbdrive is designed to help break in the panel properly.

Is there any harm in leaving the tv using this. I noticed the 150hrs recommended. How long a day?
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post #4184 of 15008 Old 10-20-2008, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by florida61 View Post

Is there any harm in leaving the tv using this. I noticed the 150hrs recommended. How long a day?

no harm if done right, just make sure the patterns cover the entire screen. for the dvd i don't know if it will automatically repeat the patterns in a loop so you can leave it on for 8 to 10 hours straight overnight or while at work.

i'm currently at 90 hours and havent ran the break-in patterns at all, maybe i'll start tomorrow morning to run it during the day.

if you dont put the display in the correct screen size (dot by dot or full) and leave black bars on the sides of the screen for hours and hours, you'll likely get a burn-in on the sides.
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post #4185 of 15008 Old 10-20-2008, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_DML View Post

you might have my curse since my symptoms sound like yours. No combination works for me, I have found scenes in programs that cause your description on my dvr and have tried all the Pure cinema settings to no avail. I am thinking it is just in my head now and I subconsciously looking for motion blur I think I started it by looking for smoother motion using 72hz advance setting.

nope, no combination works for me either. It is probably partially in our heads but mostly it is the TV. Can you believe a TV this expensive has these problems? Motion blur -- do not worry you will get over it and it is only sometimes..... buzz on back of tv --- not to worry, if you are further than 8 feet away you will not hear it ..... lack of PQ controls --- it's okay, spend $400 and get it calibrated....or more and purchase an Elite which also buzzes

What was I thinking when I purchased this TV? It's great the blacks are super black and the picture quality is amazing...when I do not need an aspirin to clear my headache from the blur.

Sorry just venting. I am sure if you do not see the blur the picture is awesome....but I see it sometimes when the actors turn their heads....brutal....I am trying to have a pioneer rep come out and look at the TV.

I will say this -- I never see the motion blur with sports which is the most important for me. Movies on the other hand and some programming are terrible. I have not spent much time with smooth mode but have heard about the artifacts...maybe artifacts are better than blur?

I still believe that my laster surgery may have something to do with this. I think some peoples retinas react differently? If so, I apologize to pioneer for venting.

If anyone can help me solve this problem I would do about anything. I just want to enjoy my Kuro.
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post #4186 of 15008 Old 10-20-2008, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobssurfin View Post

If you're right, then this is annoying for such a nice tv otherwise. It doesn't happen on every station, but still is a problem.

Have you experienced this issue playing HD/Bluray movies in 1080P/24 fps? If yes, what can be done? I just hooked up my Pioneer BDP-51FD player but have not played a movie on it yet. The only thing I did so far was to upgrade the FW to v1.02

havent had time to watch many BD movies, so Galapagos I didnt notice any and Iron man seemed ok, think just normal 24fps blur. That is why I am not 100% sure it is the tv problems, could be a symptom of overcompress DISH HD. But I never had issues with my 46" lcd.

Edit: I am have sensitive eyes, walked over to a co-workers cube and his CRT monitor drove my eyes crazy too and I mentioned it to him. After that he noticed it too and swapped it out for a LCD, so I corrupted him too. Not sure if his CRT was refreshing at 60hz but that is my quess.
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post #4187 of 15008 Old 10-20-2008, 09:56 PM
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I have been browsing this forum for awhile now. I thought I was all set on purchasing the 6020 but after hearing all the complaints lately I am really wondering if I should plunk down that kind of cash only to be disappointed. Before considering the 6020, I was really leaning towards one of the newer 58 inch Panasonic Plasmas. For $1000 more than the Panny, I really want to make sure the Kuro is worth it. Has anyone on here had both or done a really good comparison. I know that Pioneer Kuros produce the blackest blacks...but I am not a fan of blur so that to me is more important.

Again, I am not trying to bash the Kuros in any way. As I explained, I was just about to pull the trigger on one. But now I am getting nervous and want to make sure I here some more facts before the big purchase. I do appreciate everyone/anyone's input here. I would love to hear why I should choose a Kuro or why I should not. And if not, what is the 2nd best choice in the 58-60 inch range?

Thanks!
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post #4188 of 15008 Old 10-20-2008, 10:09 PM
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I'm kinda with you man. I've been reading a LOT about the Kuros and some people are complaining about motion blur and phosphor lag. I went to a local electronics store and checked out a 5020 and had them hook up a ps3 to play a few games and to watch a blu ray. I have to say I don't really have any fear of phosphor lag anymore. I hardly noticed anything at all and I have really sensitive eyes towards refresh rate due to years of CRT computer gaming (can't stand anything under 85Hz). I also hardly noticed any motion blur during blu ray playback.

I had a Panasonic 46Z85U (the original plasma I was thinking about getting) set up right next to the 5020 I was watching and the black levels on the Kuro made the Panasonic look gray. The 5020 was a thousand times better and it wasn't even professionally calibrated. I'm planning on pulling the trigger on it really soon!


Quote:
Originally Posted by musiclover408 View Post

I have been browsing this forum for awhile now. I thought I was all set on purchasing the 6020 but after hearing all the complaints lately I am really wondering if I should plunk down that kind of cash only to be disappointed. Before considering the 6020, I was really leaning towards one of the newer 58 inch Panasonic Plasmas. For $1000 more than the Panny, I really want to make sure the Kuro is worth it. Has anyone on here had both or done a really good comparison. I know that Pioneer Kuros produce the blackest blacks...but I am not a fan of blur so that to me is more important.

Again, I am not trying to bash the Kuros in any way. As I explained, I was just about to pull the trigger on one. But now I am getting nervous and want to make sure I here some more facts before the big purchase. I do appreciate everyone/anyone's input here. I would love to hear why I should choose a Kuro or why I should not. And if not, what is the 2nd best choice in the 58-60 inch range?

Thanks!

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post #4189 of 15008 Old 10-20-2008, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timothydog76 View Post

The 5020 was a thousand times better and it wasn't even professionally calibrated. I'm planning on pulling the trigger on it really soon!

Well to me a thousand times better is definitely worth $1,000!!

Thanks for your comments... keep 'em coming please
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post #4190 of 15008 Old 10-20-2008, 10:20 PM
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You know, I have been seeing a lot of reports of motion blur from Cable feeds lately from all technologies. Even 120HZ LCDs with FI engaged.

Wonder what the heck is going on?
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post #4191 of 15008 Old 10-20-2008, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_DML View Post

havent had time to watch many BD movies, so Galapagos I didnt notice any and Iron man seemed ok, think just normal 24fps blur. That is why I am not 100% sure it is the tv problems, could be a symptom of overcompress DISH HD. But I never had issues with my 46" lcd.

Edit: I am have sensitive eyes, walked over to a co-workers cube and his CRT monitor drove my eyes crazy too and I mentioned it to him. After that he noticed it too and swapped it out for a LCD, so I corrupted him too. Not sure if his CRT was refreshing at 60hz but that is my quess.

Wait, so MB bothered him, so he bought an LCD?
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post #4192 of 15008 Old 10-21-2008, 03:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanaticalism View Post

You know, I have been seeing a lot of reports of motion blur from Cable feeds lately from all technologies.

Even Fios? Their just installing it in our area and I was probably gonna get it instead of DirectTv. What do you guys recommend.
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post #4193 of 15008 Old 10-21-2008, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musiclover408 View Post

I have been browsing this forum for awhile now. I thought I was all set on purchasing the 6020 but after hearing all the complaints lately I am really wondering if I should plunk down that kind of cash only to be disappointed. Before considering the 6020, I was really leaning towards one of the newer 58 inch Panasonic Plasmas. For $1000 more than the Panny, I really want to make sure the Kuro is worth it. Has anyone on here had both or done a really good comparison. I know that Pioneer Kuros produce the blackest blacks...but I am not a fan of blur so that to me is more important.

Again, I am not trying to bash the Kuros in any way. As I explained, I was just about to pull the trigger on one. But now I am getting nervous and want to make sure I here some more facts before the big purchase. I do appreciate everyone/anyone's input here. I would love to hear why I should choose a Kuro or why I should not. And if not, what is the 2nd best choice in the 58-60 inch range?

Thanks!


Happy to oblige...

I have owned both sets (well the 50" 800u and here are is what I have observed.

Panasonic 800u:
pros:
-decent blacks ( you can see the bars when watching a movie)
-accurate colors (I think that they look washed out)
-very clean looking
-good speakers
-0 input lag for games

cons:
-blacks
-thx mode to me looked very washed out and lacked any sort of punch
-I had terrible buzzing from the rear of mine
-3 screen effect...once you see it you will never stop looking for it. Off angle viewing displays 3 layers of the image displayed
-all other picture modes are terrible and have a lot of noise
-48hz looked good at first but the flicker is so bad it'll give you a migrane


5020/6020:
pro:
-very deep blacks
-vibrant colors
-better 24p support (72hz in advanced vs. 48hz panasonic)
-a lot better picture modes to choose from. I know they are not nearly as good as movie mode, but if you want a bluer picture, they still look pretty good
-absolutely no noise that I have seen
-great sound

cons:
-color saturation may be more than most like (I prefer the pop of the colors)
-slightly inaccurate colors...I thought they looked more realistic than the 800u
-lacks a huge amount of user controls

from what I have read, both of them have some complications with calibration but they both can and will benefit from a professional calibration.
I hope this will help you guys out, because I know going through all of that was pretty hectic. In the end the 5020 was the right choice for me, I needed the better blacks and vibrant colors. I am planning on getting my set calibrated soon and I have never been as satisfied with a purchase as I am with the 5020.

On the topic of blur, I am assuming that my vision either doesn't allow me to see it, or just certain people are more sensitive to it. I have never noticed any blurring on any mode ( off standar smooth advanced).
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post #4194 of 15008 Old 10-21-2008, 05:41 AM
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If you saw the THX testing lab and sat through the entire certification process for a single product, you'd realize THX is more than just marketing. Though if there were no marketing, there would be little or no value to the THX certification programs.

I agree it serves some purpose.. However if all displays can't be submitted to THX either because the manufacturer didn't pay enough (ahem marketing) or because they didn't want to, what is it doing for the consumer? No one is saying they slap the THX logo on any junker or that they don't test but other then marketing how is it helping you?

For instance take the 151 that isn't THX certified, then an 800U and have a comsumer look at specifications, Some people might think that THX means the 800U is a superior set, the ones that know better won't even notice the THX logo. Yeah the 800U passes THX specifications which means it measures up to their standards. Does that mean the 151 doesn't?

Unless THX certification was a test for all TVs in a certain price bracket or size range, I just can't see the value or it other than knowing a certain product is up to their (?) secret specifications. Paying to have the certification just enforces that more. something tells me you won't see a THX Vizio no matter how it performed.

Be a fan of displays, not companies or technologies!
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post #4195 of 15008 Old 10-21-2008, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick. View Post

I agree it serves some purpose.. However if all displays can't be submitted to THX either because the manufacturer didn't pay enough (ahem marketing) or because they didn't want to, what is it doing for the consumer? No one is saying they slap the THX logo on any junker or that they don't test but other then marketing how is it helping you?

For instance take the 151 that isn't THX certified, then an 800U and have a comsumer look at specifications, Some people might think that THX means the 800U is a superior set, the ones that know better won't even notice the THX logo. Yeah the 800U passes THX specifications which means it measures up to their standards. Does that mean the 151 doesn't?

Unless THX certification was a test for all TVs in a certain price bracket or size range, I just can't see the value or it other than knowing a certain product is up to their (?) secret specifications. Paying to have the certification just enforces that more. something tells me you won't see a THX Vizio no matter how it performed.

It looks like a marketing test. It is interesting the the Panasonic top of the line does not have the THX certification. It will be interesting to see if next year Panasonic continues with THX. I like the concept that displays have accurate modes and even that the goal is to be accurate.

Personally, I prefer an accurate display that costs less

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post #4196 of 15008 Old 10-21-2008, 06:42 AM
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NEVER TRUST BROADCAST [cable/sat] SOURCES! EVER! Even though the signal is way better now days, the signal comes from a WIDE VARIETY of sources including inferior cameras, upscaling, various electronics processing like COMPRESSION etc... it's very, very good looking 'crap'. To REALLY test the potential of your purchase, you gotta send it the BEST AVAILABLE source: Blu Ray or test patterns. Anything less than that can, and probably does, suffer.

and never trust Best Buy or Circuit City or where ever to have their TV anywhere close to being setup correctly
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post #4197 of 15008 Old 10-21-2008, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackass414 View Post

Happy to oblige...

I have owned both sets (well the 50" 800u and here are is what I have observed.

Panasonic 800u:
pros:
-decent blacks ( you can see the bars when watching a movie)
-accurate colors (I think that they look washed out)
-very clean looking
-good speakers
-0 input lag for games

cons:
-blacks
-thx mode to me looked very washed out and lacked any sort of punch
-I had terrible buzzing from the rear of mine
-3 screen effect...once you see it you will never stop looking for it. Off angle viewing displays 3 layers of the image displayed
-all other picture modes are terrible and have a lot of noise
-48hz looked good at first but the flicker is so bad it'll give you a migrane


5020/6020:
pro:
-very deep blacks
-vibrant colors
-better 24p support (72hz in advanced vs. 48hz panasonic)
-a lot better picture modes to choose from. I know they are not nearly as good as movie mode, but if you want a bluer picture, they still look pretty good
-absolutely no noise that I have seen
-great sound

cons:
-color saturation may be more than most like (I prefer the pop of the colors)
-slightly inaccurate colors...I thought they looked more realistic than the 800u
-lacks a huge amount of user controls

from what I have read, both of them have some complications with calibration but they both can and will benefit from a professional calibration.
I hope this will help you guys out, because I know going through all of that was pretty hectic. In the end the 5020 was the right choice for me, I needed the better blacks and vibrant colors. I am planning on getting my set calibrated soon and I have never been as satisfied with a purchase as I am with the 5020.

On the topic of blur, I am assuming that my vision either doesn't allow me to see it, or just certain people are more sensitive to it. I have never noticed any blurring on any mode ( off standar smooth advanced).

That's a good analysis, I think. Although I have not owned an 800U I have carefully followed the 800U threads and the plusses and minuses seem to be as you delineated them.

I have had a Pioneer Kuro 6020 for nearly two months and have been very pleased. The (relative) lack of user controls has been a non-issue for me because I have found Movie mode, tweaked slightly in accordance with D Nice's recommendations, produces a wonderful picture. I like Movie mode so much, I even use it for viewing HD sports programs. I have seen occasional blur on some cable telecasts but not enough to concern me much. The PQ of 1080p BD movies has been simply stunning, I have seen no blur and could not have asked for more.
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post #4198 of 15008 Old 10-21-2008, 08:53 AM
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That's a good analysis, I think. Although I have not owned an 800U I have carefully followed the 800U threads and the plusses and minuses seem to be as you delineated them.

I have had a Pioneer Kuro 6020 for nearly two months and have been very pleased. The (relative) lack of user controls has been a non-issue for me because I have found Movie mode, tweaked slightly in accordance with D Nice's recommendations, produces a wonderful picture. I like Movie mode so much, I even use it for viewing HD sports programs. I have seen occasional blur on some cable telecasts but not enough to concern me much. The PQ of 1080p BD movies has been simply stunning, I have seen no blur and could not have asked for more.

Having a Great HDTV requires more control & setting ability than either of these sets offer. While the Panny can be Calibrated, the 6020 can NOT be Calibrated other than the Grays. To me I want the ability to be able to set a TV to my personal preferences not the manufacturer. I'm sure most people would agree. Neither of these TV's live up to what they should do even though they are good TV's
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post #4199 of 15008 Old 10-21-2008, 08:59 AM
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Having a Great HDTV requires more control & setting ability than either of these sets offer. While the Panny can be Calibrated, the 6020 can NOT be Calibrated other than the Grays. To me I want the ability to be able to set a TV to my personal preferences not the manufacturer. I'm sure most people would agree. Neither of these TV's live up to what they should do even though they are good TV's

i would think most of the missing settings are those only pros would have a use for. as for me contrast/brightness/color/tint/sharpness plus the RGB-High/Low for grayscales are plenty.
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post #4200 of 15008 Old 10-21-2008, 09:50 AM
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i would think most of the missing settings are those only pros would have a use for. as for me contrast/brightness/color/tint/sharpness plus the RGB-High/Low for grayscales are plenty.

If your satisfied with the controls and are able to achieve a picture quality that you are satisfied and happy with, regardless of the brand Then you have a GREAT HDTV. Remember you the user have to feel satisfied.
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