The Official Pioneer 9G non-Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 15008 Old 06-14-2008, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woody0654 View Post

With the economy the way it is,it seems to me that pioneer doesn't really care one way or the other about the people that have been loyal to them for years. I guess pioneer wants me to go to some other manufacturor for a half-a.. picture so I guess my 5080 is as go as it gets for me!!!!!!!!

your 5080 is an excellent pasma. are you not happy with it?
they may have taken a few settings away but they have lowered the black level and increased contrast to give an even better pic then the 8G Kuros. They may not have lowered the msrp on the base model 5020 down to $3500 like the 5080 was released at but it's close and probably will get there in 6 months or so.

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post #902 of 15008 Old 06-14-2008, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by dssturbo1 View Post

your 5080 is an excellent pasma. are you not happy with it?

I love it!!! I love the progress that pioneer has made with the blacks.I just want to be able to calibrate the pictue so that I can continue to watch such a beautiful picture.How about you? I love what I see with the help I get from D-Nice as far is advice.
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post #903 of 15008 Old 06-14-2008, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nambit View Post

Some channels (and cable boxes) will automatically add black bars which can
fool the TV into thinking the black bars are a part of the widescreen content.
The auto-mask or whatever it's called on the Pioneers should detect the black
bars and extend the image to the full screen to compensate. You have to turn
side-mask detection on in the options menu if it isn't already. I've also noticed
my OTA antenna does this for 4:3 content as well.

Ok I got it.
I remember dealing with this now.
the first time I watched standard on this 6020 I noticed grey sidebars and I went into my DVR menu and turned 4:3 override to auto. This made the picture look much better and gave me black bars instead of grey.
I had thought that my cable was doing the grey sidebars, but in fact, it was the Kuro.
I am going to leave it as is. I hate the grey sidebars and I hate stretched Standard Def.
So my motorola HDDVR is actually doing me a favor and getting rid of the grey sidebars.
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post #904 of 15008 Old 06-14-2008, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woody0654 View Post

I love it!!! I love the progress that pioneer has made with the blacks.I just want to be able to calibrate the pictue so that I can continue to watch such a beautiful picture.How about you? I love what I see with the help I get from D-Nice as far is advice.

well yes i certianly would agree that many on here are dissapointed that Pioneer has taken away some setting options and also changed the service menu access on the regular Kuros.

guessing Dnice will have the service menu access process soon and he will give better settings options once his 6020 his broken in and he's able to give it a complete D nice setup .

But it is also that choice I made to buy an Elite Kuro over a regular Kuro. After doing alot of homework and using alot of great advice from avs members like D nice, russwong, Roman O and others I also consulted with Jeff Meier UMR on here as he is a well known and repsected ISF tech. He confirmed to me the Elite would give me the options and ability to have the best pq. So I took the added $900 cost over the regular Kuro along with other added features I wanted and choose the Kuro Elite. I found an excellent deal from an avs forum sponsor on it and figured over 5 years it was an easy $200 a year for all added features and i would be getting the best plasma on the market.

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post #905 of 15008 Old 06-14-2008, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebarnman View Post

Well there you have it, even without the pix!

I wish I had some pics.

I'm still working on getting a camera so I can show some comparisons to show everyone what I am seeing.

I'll do some viewing later this evening in game mode on the 5020 to compare black levels.
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post #906 of 15008 Old 06-14-2008, 04:56 PM
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Was the anti-reflective coating improved on the 9g's? I looked on Pioneer's website and could not find anything.
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post #907 of 15008 Old 06-14-2008, 05:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrein205 View Post

Was the anti-reflective coating improved on the 9g's? I looked on Pioneer's website and could not find anything.

No. Same as last year's model.
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post #908 of 15008 Old 06-14-2008, 05:05 PM
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Thank you. The reflections are not a problem, but I was just curious if they improved the reflective coating to compensate for the darker blacks.
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post #909 of 15008 Old 06-14-2008, 05:10 PM
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D-nice,

The little I have watched, mostly sports, on my 5020...I prefer game mode for that type of viewing. Do you think you could provide some settings for Game mode when you get a chance?
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post #910 of 15008 Old 06-14-2008, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrein205 View Post

I just did a comparison of the battle scene in Narnia. Watched it on my PS3. The image on the 5020 definitely has more pop or a cleaner 3D look. I've showcased that battle scene to all my friends over and over on my 5010, so it was easy to notice the improvements. Would you be able to notice the improvements if you didn't have the 5010 and 5020 right next to each other? I would say yes.

mrein, What mode were you in...Optimum, Movie? Had the 5010, returned it for the 5020. Can't seem to get used the the 5020 Optimum, seems like too much black crush, blown up look, etc. Movie seems best but not sure for everyday viewing. Curious on your thoughts. Looking forward to more of your side by sides and when D-Nice checks in after break in of the 6020. Thanks, Blue
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post #911 of 15008 Old 06-14-2008, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueste View Post

mrein, What mode were you in...Optimum, Movie? Had the 5010, returned it for the 5020. Can't seem to get used the the 5020 Optimum, seems like too much black crush, blown up look, etc. Movie seems best but not sure for everyday viewing. Curious on your thoughts. Looking forward to more of your side by sides and when D-Nice checks in after break in of the 6020. Thanks, Blue

I was in movie mode. The optimum mode can be a little much at times. Like in my earlier post, I've been using game mode for watching sports and it works pretty well.

I am just waiting until after break-in to really adjust the picture.
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post #912 of 15008 Old 06-14-2008, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrein205 View Post

D-nice,

The little I have watched, mostly sports, on my 5020...I prefer game mode for that type of viewing. Do you think you could provide some settings for Game mode when you get a chance?


Not to many other settings to provide. The modes have all the settings made already and you can't change them. The only thing you can adjust is contrast, brightness, sharpness, etc. Do you have a Blu-Ray movie from Sony Pictures? If you do you can enter 7669 when the title menu is on your screen and it will give you test patterns that will let you adjust those settings. The main thing that D-Nice can maybe help you out with is whenever he finds out how to get into the SM and provide offsets to get you close to a 6500K greyscale. That will make a significant difference in the picture.
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post #913 of 15008 Old 06-14-2008, 06:33 PM
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Based on these presets, what mode will the greyscale adjustments be paired with?? Any ideas??

A/V Mode ---- DRE --- Black Level --- ACL --- Enhancer --- Gamma --- CTI

Dynamic------ High ------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Performance-- Mid -------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Movie-------- Off -------- On ------- Off ------- 2 ---------- 1 ------ On
Sports------- Mid -------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Game-------- Off -------- Off ------- Off ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Standard----- Mid ------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
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post #914 of 15008 Old 06-14-2008, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrein205 View Post

Based on these presets, what mode will the greyscale adjustments be paired with?? Any ideas??

A/V Mode ---- DRE --- Black Level --- ACL --- Enhancer --- Gamma --- CTI

Dynamic------ High ------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Performance-- Mid -------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Movie-------- Off -------- On ------- Off ------- 2 ---------- 1 ------ On
Sports------- Mid -------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Game-------- Off -------- Off ------- Off ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Standard----- Mid ------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On

Most likely Movie Mode.

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post #915 of 15008 Old 06-14-2008, 07:00 PM
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Game mode is the only with black level off, could that play a role? What exactly are the benefits/advantages of black level?

Thanks!
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post #916 of 15008 Old 06-14-2008, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rougebear View Post

Not to many other settings to provide. The modes have all the settings made already and you can't change them. The only thing you can adjust is contrast, brightness, sharpness, etc. Do you have a Blu-Ray movie from Sony Pictures? If you do you can enter 7669 when the title menu is on your screen and it will give you test patterns that will let you adjust those settings. The main thing that D-Nice can maybe help you out with is whenever he finds out how to get into the SM and provide offsets to get you close to a 6500K greyscale. That will make a significant difference in the picture.

I tried adjusting the settings I could and I guess I don't have enough experience to judge what is the best adjustments. Any suggestions would be much appreciated!
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post #917 of 15008 Old 06-14-2008, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coltsfreak18 View Post

Most likely Movie Mode.


I doubt it. Most movie modes use the low color temp mode. The ideal color temp for achieving a 6500K greyscale is Mid temp. The Mid color temp is what D-Nice recommends to use with his offsets in the SM for the XX10 series.
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post #918 of 15008 Old 06-14-2008, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrein205 View Post

Based on these presets, what mode will the greyscale adjustments be paired with?? Any ideas??

A/V Mode ---- DRE --- Black Level --- ACL --- Enhancer --- Gamma --- CTI

Dynamic------ High ------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Performance-- Mid -------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Movie-------- Off -------- On ------- Off ------- 2 ---------- 1 ------ On
Sports------- Mid -------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Game-------- Off -------- Off ------- Off ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Standard----- Mid ------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On


What ever mode or modes use the mid color temp will give you the best chance of achieving a 6500K greyscale.
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post #919 of 15008 Old 06-14-2008, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rougebear View Post

I doubt it. Movie mode has the low color temp mode. The ideal color temp for achieving a 6500K greyscale is Mid temp. The Mid color temp is what D-Nice recommends to use with his offsets in the SM for the XX10 series.

That woud be very unusual. Low is usually "warm" which is supposed to be *close* to D65.


bob
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post #920 of 15008 Old 06-14-2008, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by rougebear View Post

When comparing them, remember you don't have the option with the XX20 to change settings such as (DRE,Black Level,Color Temp, etc.) like you do with the 5010. If you have DRE OFF and Black Level OFF with the 5010 then the only preset mode on the 5020 that has those settings is GAME MODE. If you could give me your opinion of the black levels with those settings I would appreciate it. I am trying to decide if I will take back the 5010 and get the 5020.

Did what you requested.....black levels are MUCH better on the 5020!

I am watching SNL in a pitch dark room and during a commercial the whole screen went black during I believe a Sony commercial and I lost the tv....I couldn't even tell where it was!
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post #921 of 15008 Old 06-14-2008, 08:57 PM
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^^Ok the screen did it again and I could barely see the screen, it wasn't completly invisable. I just wasn't ready for it the first time, and got a little excited in my darkened panic!
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post #922 of 15008 Old 06-14-2008, 09:31 PM
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D-Nice,
For those of us with no sound setup, Do you think you could possibly put your preferred sound settings for the 6020 on the first page of this thread??
Thanks,
Chad
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post #923 of 15008 Old 06-14-2008, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spongebob View Post

That woud be very unusual. Low is usually "warm" which is supposed to be *close* to D65.


bob


Yes "close" as in 6000K. That is really not close. I can not stress enough how much of a difference it makes being able to get the greyscale to 6500K with the Pioneer Kuro's. With my 5010 it was like I had a different TV. The blacks were better, colors were better, dark detail improved. The biggest change was in the depth of the picture. Take a look at some these pictures of my 5010 after entering the service menu and changing offsets to get a 6500K greyscale. Tell me if you can see were the panel starts on the black background shots. You can also see I am not crushing dark detail by the first two shots I posted. Keep in mind that the pics do a decent job of showing what I am seeing but the depth of the picture is even more noticeable in my living room. Pics were taken in completely dark room, no flash, all settings of camera like iso,focus,white balance,etc. were set to auto.








Here are a couple of quotes from the 8G setting thread that sums up what I am talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G-star View Post

after following this thread for months, this is what i gather:

the reference settings on the first page of this thread using a color temp of LOW (no SM adjustments) results in a ~ 6000K greyscale. this is about as close to D65 as you can get without entering the SM.

the SM adjustments and settings posted a few pages back using a color temp of MID results in a near perfect (in terms of greyscale) 6500K picture.

as far as editing the SM and using a color temp of LOW, you're on your own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macfan424 View Post

FWIW, over a period of several months I've tried several service menu settings that have been designed to achieve 6500K in Low (similar to those used by professional calibrators as reported by several AVS contributors) and Medium (based on D-Nice's posts, as well as others posted here).

All vastly improved upon the factory settings. They were also far superior to anything I could attain using only User menu settings, either those posted here or by various outside reviewers (e.g. CNET). Most of the latter, including D-Nice's recommendations, were based on Low, because it is closer (albeit not very close) to 6500K out of the box.


To sum it up...if you don't get a 6500K greyscale you don't know what you are missing out on. I would also like to get the XX20 but if I can not get a 6500K greyscale with it than I rather keep my 5010.
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post #924 of 15008 Old 06-14-2008, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rougebear View Post

Yes "close" as in 6000K. That is really not close. I can not stress enough how much of a difference it makes being able to get the greyscale to 6500K with the Pioneer Kuro's. With my 5010 it was like I had a different TV. The blacks were better, colors were better, dark detail improved. The biggest change was in the depth of the picture. Take a look at some these pictures of my 5010 after entering the service menu and changing offsets to get a 6500K greyscale. Tell me if you can see were the panel starts on the black background shots. You can also see I am not crushing dark detail by the first two shots I posted. Keep in mind that the pics do a decent job of showing what I am seeing but the depth of the picture is even more noticeable in my living room. Pics were taken in completely dark room, no flash, all settings of camera like iso,focus,white balance,etc. were set to auto.








Here are a couple of quotes from the 8G setting thread that sums up what I am talking about.






To sum it up...if you don't get a 6500K greyscale you don't know what you are missing out on. I would also like to get the XX20 but if I can not get a 6500K greyscale with it than I rather keep my 5010.

Can you please tell me which offsets you used. I would like to try them on my 5010. Thanks
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post #925 of 15008 Old 06-15-2008, 02:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrein205 View Post

I tried adjusting the settings I could and I guess I don't have enough experience to judge what is the best adjustments. Any suggestions would be much appreciated!


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post #926 of 15008 Old 06-15-2008, 02:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrein205 View Post

^^Ok the screen did it again and I could barely see the screen, it wasn't completly invisable. I just wasn't ready for it the first time, and got a little excited in my darkened panic!

Let it sit for about 30 seconds without a signal in a black room and let us know what you think!

Movies must be OAR, sports and movies must also have 5.1 audio, No EE or NO SALE!
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post #927 of 15008 Old 06-15-2008, 02:53 AM
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I should be getting my new Pioneer 5020 Monday or Tuesday. I will also be using an Oppo 980 and a TiVo HD with the set up. When hooking up the TiVo to the TV, all I have to do is attach and HDMI cord into the TV to get it to work. Do I have to use the RCA component/composite cords that come along with it? Also will I be able to use Closed Caption with using the HDMI cord?
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post #928 of 15008 Old 06-15-2008, 04:48 AM
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can someone please post some pics of the US Open? i am intrested to see how the green colors look.
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post #929 of 15008 Old 06-15-2008, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregdpw View Post

can someone please post some pics of the US Open? i am intrested to see how the green colors look.

They will look however your computer monitor displays them.

Viewing pictures posted on the Internet to see how a TV looks just doesn't work, especially when you're talking about black levels, and then viewing small compressed pictures on your LCD. ;-)
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post #930 of 15008 Old 06-15-2008, 07:28 AM
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I did try that and the screen goes completely black with 0 luminance, just like D-nice indicated with his first impressions. The black levels from the 8g to the 9g is a HUGE improvement while watching regular content.

When looking at the 8g to the 9g and comparing blacks it is definitely an awesome improvement, but when comparing the 9g screen before the 30 sec and after it is unbelievable. I can not imagine a 0 luminace screen during regular watching, it would be unreal!
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