The Official Pioneer 9G non-Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 321 - AVS Forum
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post #9601 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 07:47 AM
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Have many of the Canadian owners in the forum applied the U.S. firmware update (401)? Any comments about any improvements, problems, etc? Did all your customised A/V settings remain intact or did they reset to factory defaults? Apparently, Pioneer Canada has stated that updated firmware (I'm sure the same one) will appear on their site within a few weeks. Thanks
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post #9602 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by towerboy View Post

Have many of the Canadian owners in the forum applied the U.S. firmware update (401)? Any comments about any improvements, problems, etc? Did all your customised A/V settings remain intact or did they reset to factory defaults? Apparently, Pioneer Canada has stated that updated firmware (I'm sure the same one) will appear on their site within a few weeks. Thanks

I did do the firmware update, and I'm in Canada. I didn't notice any glaring changes, and all the PQ settings stayed the same. Initially, I didn't notice the "this update is for US owners only" statement, as it was on a different page, so I was a little worried, but I figured it was only there for those that wanted to get the free thumbdrive sent to them.

In any case, the thing that it *did* change was improve the slideshow in the HMG. Once in a while, it would show up some garbage image in the upper left, and the new FW fixed it (as mentioned in the update notes). The upgrade process was smooth, just read and understand the instructions before you take the plunge.
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post #9603 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by towerboy View Post

Have many of the Canadian owners in the forum applied the U.S. firmware update (401)? Any comments about any improvements, problems, etc? Did all your customised A/V settings remain intact or did they reset to factory defaults? Apparently, Pioneer Canada has stated that updated firmware (I'm sure the same one) will appear on their site within a few weeks. Thanks


This firmware update may not ever show on the Canadian site.. 1 reason being the update also addresses the upcoming digital switch over we will have in the US in June... Not to say that would matter as for as it working for you but could be a reason they don't post it for the Canadian sets..
Sonny
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post #9604 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Sonnydigs View Post

This firmware update may not ever show on the Canadian site.. 1 reason being the update also addresses the upcoming digital switch over we will have in the US in June... Not to say that would matter as for as it working for you but could be a reason they don't post it for the Canadian sets..
Sonny

The Canadian versions of companies tend to be "slower" or "lazier", I haven't decided which. This is universal for all companies, whether it comes to driver downloads, manuals, whatever.

I think the primary issue for the FW update was the DTV switchover, however there were some small issues addressed that *I* did experience. Frankly, the sets are 100% identical, so I don't see what difference it would make anyway.
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post #9605 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 08:12 AM
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As an aside update, I'm currently in the process of auditioning a Sammy 52LNA750. I have to say, the Kuro beats the PQ in movie viewing, but the LCD is pretty impressive when viewing straight on. The black levels are pretty good when it is set up properly, to the point that I can't see where the frame ends and the screen begins. Off angle (and it doesn't take much) the image deteriorates exponentially.

BUT there is NO Buzz, and NO 60Hz flicker, and no worries about IR. I have to weigh my options, and play with it, especially for daytime viewing and PC connectivity (the 60Hz flicker drove me NUTS with my computer connected, trying to surf the net).

The guys at FutureShop were really accommodating. I'm happy I bought from a local store. I really want to love the Kuro, but its not showing me love back. I just find the flicker, buzz and fact that movie mode is "brownish" troubling. (I know, you can have it calibrated, and if I decide to stay the course, I will do so, but its a bit of a kick in the teeth that the "premiere" set is missing basic RGB controls that the A750 has in spades...ie: all RGB high/low gains are available in the REGULAR menus). I find these deficiencies mildly distracting, and I haven't decided if the marginally better PQ is worth the other headaches.
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post #9606 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ncnmra View Post

BUT there is NO Buzz, and NO 60Hz flicker, and no worries about IR. I have to weigh my options, and play with it, especially for daytime viewing and PC connectivity (the 60Hz flicker drove me NUTS with my computer connected, trying to surf the net).

Just some FYI, the buzz can usually be eliminated by changing the power save modes. The Pioneer is very resilient to IR and BI. From what I have heard, one of the better. So IR should not be a concern with it. As for the flicker (at the risk of opening up the Pandora's Box again), the Pioneer has a 72hz (PureCinema) mode that may be able to be activated when using a PC. Or maybe there's an A/V Mode that works best for PC use. Someone else that knows can go into more detail about that.


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I really want to love the Kuro, but its not showing me love back. I just find the flicker, buzz and fact that movie mode is "brownish" troubling.

Did you switch around to the other Modes with the higher color temps?

God Bless,
-Clint
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post #9607 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

If you bought it locally, call them up immediately and ask for a replacement. Otherwise you're in for a world of pain.

If it is too late for that, you can try something like www.jscreenfix.com or http://fixdeadpixels.uv.ro/fix-stuck-pixels.html for several hours. You could also try running some Pixar (Incredibles, Cars, Wall-E, etc.) features for a day to see if it resolves the problem. Finally, you can do pixel massage. If all that fails, you'll have to contact Pioneer and hopefully a tech will understand your plight at which point you can get a replacement (if the pixel is visible on regular content from 8 feet out, they *should* take care of you). Last resorts will be BBB and finally small claims court.

This pixel failure incidence is starting to concern me. It seems Pioneer has been getting sloppy as hell in QC lately.

Thanks Vinnie...I've burned the JScreenFix DVD video and running it as we speak. I also called Pioneer and set up a service call...kept getting the manufactures in-spec BS from PIO, I'm not counting on them for any support, but be assured I will not go down without a fight.
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post #9608 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Clint S. View Post

In addition to what Vinnie said, some have had success running the break-in images again, and with the "Video Pattern" feature of the TV.

Clint...can you please explain what you are referring to (in bold)
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post #9609 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Clint S. View Post

Just some FYI, the buzz can usually be eliminated by changing the power save modes. The Pioneer is very resilient to IR and BI. From what I have heard, one of the better.

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I know about powersave mode 2, and indeed it does help, but at the expense of brightness. This hurts, in the day, and although I could switch back and forth, it is a pain, and drives the wife nuts. Also, it bothers me that you have to compromise performance because of a side-effect noise. If it was less of a buzzing and more of a hum, it would no doubt drown out. I wish you could turn the fans on manually to subdue it into the background.

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Originally Posted by Clint S. View Post

So IR should not be a concern with it.

There was a member here that experienced IR with 4:3 content and black bars. My concern is that with most Bluray, you've got the bars on top/bottom which is the same thing isn't it? In all honesty, this isn't a deal breaker for me, but just another small "minus".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint S. View Post

As for the flicker (at the risk of opening up the Pandora's Box again), the Pioneer has a 72hz (PureCinema) mode that may be able to be activated when using a PC. Or maybe there's an A/V Mode that works best for PC use. Someone else that knows can go into more detail about that.

I know the Kuro does handle 72hz, but my PC recognizes its max refresh at 60 only. When you set the HDMI input mode to PC rather than Video, you LOOSE all of the regular AV selection presets and only have very basic controls (although strangely, you CAN control RGB levels!). I suppose I can TRY to force the TV into HDMI input mode "Video" and try to get my video card to push 24hz, but I've seen a lot of overscan problems with input mode set to "video", and 24hz output kills any chance of gaming on these sets.

I have played with the other color temp modes, and I think I like Standard or SPORT best for most viewing. Movies in pitch black rooms are decent on Movie, but if I decide to keep the Kuro, I'll do the control cal to get rid of the "brown dust" look.
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post #9610 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc T View Post

Clint...can you please explain what you are referring to (in bold)

Search the PDF manual for details on it, page 53. I've never used it since mine is still being broken-in. It's somewhere in the advanced menu area, below the Orbiter selection.

3.6.4 Trigger the Screen-Saving Video Pattern Periodically

The Video Pattern function causes the screen to appear white, which helps to alleviate after-image ghosts or burnin. While the Video Pattern screen is on, only the remote’s TV ( a ) button and the panel’s STANDBY/ON button are available. The panel automatically switches to Standby one hour after running the Video Pattern screen. To cancel the Video Pattern screen, press the remote’s TV ( a ) or press the panel’s STANDBY/ON.

To activate the Video Pattern screen, follow the steps below.
1 ) Access the Option through the Setup.
2 ) Select Video Pattern from the Option menu.
A confirmation screen appears.
3 ) Select Start from the submenu.
The Video Pattern screen appears.
4 ) Leave the panel alone for a minimum of one hour.

God Bless,
-Clint
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post #9611 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by ncnmra View Post

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I know about powersave mode 2, and indeed it does help, but at the expense of brightness. This hurts, in the day, and although I could switch back and forth, it is a pain, and drives the wife nuts. Also, it bothers me that you have to compromise performance because of a side-effect noise. If it was less of a buzzing and more of a hum, it would no doubt drown out. I wish you could turn the fans on manually to subdue it into the background.

Maybe you should have swapped the TV for another one. Some have the buzz, some don't. I don't hear anything from mine, even during break-in, but I have an air cleaner next to it. Since you say you wish you could turn on the fans, an air cleaner would have done the same thing.


Quote:


There was a member here that experienced IR with 4:3 content and black bars. My concern is that with most Bluray, you've got the bars on top/bottom which is the same thing isn't it? In all honesty, this isn't a deal breaker for me, but just another small "minus".

Sure it still happens, but the point was it's less of an issue with the Pioneer. It also has the Video Pattern feature, Orbiter, (and something else?) that can reduce IR, even BI after it's happened. Also some have had success running the break-in images again for IR/BI. One should not be afraid of the black bars, as long as it's not all the time. It's a good rule to run some full screen content for about the same length of time as content with bars to further prevent IR/BI.


Quote:


I know the Kuro does handle 72hz, but my PC recognizes its max refresh at 60 only. When you set the HDMI input mode to PC rather than Video, you LOOSE all of the regular AV selection presets and only have very basic controls (although strangely, you CAN control RGB levels!). I suppose I can TRY to force the TV into HDMI input mode "Video" and try to get my video card to push 24hz, but I've seen a lot of overscan problems with input mode set to "video", and 24hz output kills any chance of gaming on these sets.

For something definitive, wait for some input on that from someone that's familiar with it. There may be a fix for it.

God Bless,
-Clint
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post #9612 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Pioneer 5020FD/6020FD Non-Service Menu Adjusted Reference Settings (Can be used with (after) or without the recommended break-in procedure)

Picture:
AV Selection: Movie
Contrast: 38
Brightness: -1
Color: -4
Tint: R1
Sharpness: -15

Pure Cinema

Film Mode: Advance
Text Optimization: Off



Power Save Mode: Off

Orbiter: Mode 2

New 5020 owner here. I am bit confused by this wording, probably just my stupidity, but wanted to make sure..

I can use these settings for proper break-in and occasional viewing. I only view 1-2 hours a day right now anyways... I am also aware of all other things to avoid (stagnant images, ect).
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post #9613 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Dahlsim View Post

Use .By. mode with orbitor mode 2 for screen protection whenever your input signal is 1080 (1080p or 1080i) and you'll get a little bit sharper picture than FULL or other size modes.

Blu-ray's are usually 1080 so set your player to send 1080p and 360/PS3 games can also be output at 1080p. Just make sure you check what signal resolution you're sending from any output device and you'll know when you can take advantage of .By. mode.

Will I be better protected using dot-by-dot with orbiter 2 rather than using full screen mode with orbiter 1 all the time? Is orbiter 2 only to be used if dot-by-dot is selected? Also, if the resolution of the set is 1080p and the output of my blu-ray is 1080p, why will I lose image quality having it set to FULL?

Thanks
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post #9614 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlsim View Post

Use .By. mode with orbitor mode 2 for screen protection whenever your input signal is 1080 (1080p or 1080i) and you'll get a little bit sharper picture than FULL or other size modes.

Blu-ray's are usually 1080 so set your player to send 1080p and 360/PS3 games can also be output at 1080p. Just make sure you check what signal resolution you're sending from any output device and you'll know when you can take advantage of .By. mode.

Fantastic, this info may have been posted before but it is my first time reading it....thank you Dahlism.(going to have to remember to switch the oribiter mode back to 1 when I sometimes watch 480 or 720 tv)
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post #9615 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by DJ-phYre View Post

New 5020 owner here. I am bit confused by this wording, probably just my stupidity, but wanted to make sure..

I can use these settings for proper break-in and occasional viewing. I only view 1-2 hours a day right now anyways... I am also aware of all other things to avoid (stagnant images, ect).

Used those from day one with brightness down one notch on my set, stretched, zoomed and avoided logos and HUD's.
Now at ~205 hours and not one sign of IR.
Around the 300hr mark I will begin to stretch and zoom less.
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post #9616 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 09:55 AM
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...Unfortunately, it was DOA. I contacted Pioneer Support, and they referred me to a local authorized service center who'll have a tech out today. Unfortunately 6th Avenue is all sold out, so I don't have any timely recourse through them (if at all).

Here's hoping they can get this display working soon...I've been jonesing for a decent TV for a while!
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post #9617 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 10:11 AM
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My saga starts. Ordered the 5020 from Vanns last week and it was shipped with Yellow Freight. I called Yellow Freight Friday to arrange delivery for Monday and was promised a call 2 hours prior to delivery. I'm at work and my wife just called and said that Yellow Freight just dropped off the tv and they never called me. She also said the box is all wet and water is running out the bottom of the box. The truck driver offered to plug the tv in to make sure it works, but my wife told him no. He did note the wet/water problem on the freight bill before my wife signed it. She then called me and I called Vanns. They made note of the situation and advised me to check the tv when I get home and call them to update.

"I'm suffering from the dreaded upgrade bug"
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post #9618 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 10:37 AM
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I'm wondering how many of these returns in the pursuit of finding the perfect Kuro is preventing new owners from getting sets. Supply seems to be running shorter and shorter. I dont mind a set with 1 stuck pixel if its not viewable from 7 feet away.


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post #9619 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 10:40 AM
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oh, and one issue I'm having is not being able to pick up any over-the-air signals, analog or digital. I've scanned I don't even know how many times now and it comes back with nothing. I get an error telling me to "check my antenna," but how do I do that? Isn't it built in?

I can't even manually add channels. Nothing comes up for either. I don't have cable in the room (yet), but I'd still just like to see what "TV" looks like on this thing. The thing is the junky TV that's in the kitchen that has one of those digital converter boxes for it picks up channels.
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post #9620 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Reilly311 View Post

oh, and one issue I'm having is not being able to pick up any over-the-air signals, analog or digital. I've scanned I don't even know how many times now and it comes back with nothing. I get an error telling me to "check my antenna," but how do I do that? Isn't it built in?

I can't even manually add channels. Nothing comes up for either. I don't have cable in the room (yet), but I'd still just like to see what "TV" looks like on this thing. The thing is the junky TV that's in the kitchen that has one of those digital converter boxes for it picks up channels.

You need to plug something into the antenna in connection on the back of the set. Anything from a paper clip to bunny ears to a "hd" antenna should work.


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post #9621 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Clint S. View Post

Maybe you should have swapped the TV for another one. Some have the buzz, some don't. I don't hear anything from mine, even during break-in, but I have an air cleaner next to it. Since you say you wish you could turn on the fans, an air cleaner would have done the same thing.

The buzz has very interesting properties. Ie: I can't hear it at 6ft, but I can hear it at 12 ft. If I sit on my couch and lean forward it is less noticeable than if I lean back against the couch. It is very directional, and I think varies greatly depending on orientation of the set, room acoustics, etc. From my reading, viewing and research, I believe all the sets have buzzing, and depending on the above factors and personal feelings, it may or may not be annoying.

One thing I can attest to, doing a direct side-by-side comparison at lunch today (with a very well lit room), is that the A750 LCD that I'm trying out not only doesn't buzz, but hands down, no-questions-asked OBLITERATES the Kuro for black levels in a well lit room. Off-angle and pitch black room is another story, but its something that has to be considered, as I don't have a dedicated home cinema room for this TV....(and if I did, I'd be getting a Projector).

Makes my decision that much harder.
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post #9622 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Reilly311 View Post

oh, and one issue I'm having is not being able to pick up any over-the-air signals, analog or digital. I've scanned I don't even know how many times now and it comes back with nothing. I get an error telling me to "check my antenna," but how do I do that? Isn't it built in?

I can't even manually add channels. Nothing comes up for either. I don't have cable in the room (yet), but I'd still just like to see what "TV" looks like on this thing. The thing is the junky TV that's in the kitchen that has one of those digital converter boxes for it picks up channels.

the atsc/digital, ntsc/analog, qam/cable tuners are built in,

as natrone mentioned you would need to connect some sort of uhf/vhf antenna to the set then scan for channels. reception can vary alot depending on your location/distance from the broadcast towers plus geography etc so you may need to try different, bigger, higher outside antennas to get better reception.

HD HD HD I Need more HD, Yes I am a HD Addict :)
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post #9623 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sydlexius View Post

...Unfortunately, it was DOA. I contacted Pioneer Support, and they referred me to a local authorized service center who'll have a tech out today. Unfortunately 6th Avenue is all sold out, so I don't have any timely recourse through them (if at all).

Here's hoping they can get this display working soon...I've been jonesing for a decent TV for a while!

Did you check the Master Power Switch which is located on the rear panel near the bottom right corner??

many new owners overlook this when they receive their new kuros.

HD HD HD I Need more HD, Yes I am a HD Addict :)
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post #9624 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by KCinWhitby View Post

I use STANDARD for normal broadcast viewing. Contrary to what one person reports on here, everyone else confirms that it is NOT 24FPS. And I use OFF for when I want 24FPS.

This is not true.
This has been discussed already. You probably missed something.
The 5020 provides smoother motion on 1080/24p material in Advance and Standard modes. It has been tested and proven.
No one has posted any fact opposite to that.
In Off mode you don't have 24p advantage so you just waste your TV capability.

Quote:


But I don't think I can tell the difference. Just a follower on here

You cannot tell the difference between non-24p and 24p material??
Do you want to say that 5020 is not able to demonstrate that difference? WOW!
I think the reason for your problem is different: you simply don't know how to operate your 5020 properly.

Use Advance and Standard PureCinema modes for 24p advantage.
With Off and Smooth you get same jerkier motion as if your BD player is set to 24p off.
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post #9625 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dssturbo1 View Post

the atsc/digital, ntsc/analog, qam/cable tuners are built in,

as natrone mentioned you would need to connect some sort of uhf/vhf antenna to the set then scan for channels. reception can vary alot depending on your location/distance from the broadcast towers plus geography etc so you may need to try different, bigger, higher outside antennas to get better reception.



thanks!
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post #9626 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by video313 View Post

This is not true.
This has been discussed already. You probably missed something.
The 5020 provides smoother motion on 1080/24p material in Advance and Standard modes. It has been tested and proven.
No one has posted any fact opposite to that.
In Off mode you don't have 24p advantage so you just waste your TV capability.

False. Your misinformation and privitive youtube videos prove nothing. You had a chance to resolve this once and for all and YOU declined.

AGAIN:
  • Standard does 3:2 pulldown (60Hz) on all signal types
  • Advance does 3:3 pulldown (72Hz) on film based material regardless of signal type
  • Off does 72Hz on 1080p/24 signals only. All other signal types will be @ 60Hz.


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post #9627 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

False. Your misinformation and privitive youtube videos prove nothing. You had a chance to resolve this once and for all and YOU declined.

AGAIN:
  • Standard does 3:2 pulldown (60Hz) on all signal types
  • Advance does 3:3 pulldown (72Hz) on film based material regardless of signal type
  • Off does 72Hz on 1080p/24 signals only. All other signal types will be @ 60Hz.

D-Nice, is there *any* way to get 72Hz from the Kuro for regular TV, and even better, 72Hz for a PC connected to the Kuro?

Unfortunately, I'm very sensitive to the 60Hz flicker.
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post #9628 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

  • ... 3:2 pulldown (60Hz) on all signal types
  • ... 3:3 pulldown (72Hz) on film based material regardless of signal type
  • ... 72Hz on 1080p/24 signals only. All other signal types will be @ 60Hz.

Wrong address.
You are probably answering someone else.
I never talk about abstract numbers.
My post was about practical use of 24p advantage on the 5020 (Standard and Advance modes).

If you are interested: some people do instrumental tests of the 5020 with those numbers in mind.
Please see here. They believe that you just confused the 5020 with elite models.
Thank you.
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post #9629 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncnmra View Post

D-Nice, is there *any* way to get 72Hz from the Kuro for regular TV, and even better, 72Hz for a PC connected to the Kuro?

Unfortunately, I'm very sensitive to the 60Hz flicker.

I thought the 'Advance' mode will display at 72Hz regardless of signal, so I guess thats the mode you're looking for.

I also have a question for D-nice. In your Service Menu Adjusted Reference Settings, why do you recommend PC setting to be 'standard'? Since you won't be getting 72Hz refresh rate on that mode per your tests, wouldn't it be better to have it in 'off" mode all the time? This way you can have both 60Hz for 3:2 pulldown content and 72Hz for 3:3 pulldown without having to switch between PC settings when you watch 1080/24P and non 1080/24P content.
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post #9630 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by sheedoe View Post

I thought the 'Advance' mode will display at 72Hz regardless of signal, so I guess thats the mode you're looking for.

Not as far as I could tell. I can clearly see 60Hz flicker when I have my satellite box connected to the Kuro (@ 720p output).

EDIT: I don't know what is meant by "film based material" in D-Nice's description of Advance setting.
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