The Official Pioneer 9G non-Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 322 - AVS Forum
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post #9631 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by video313 View Post

Wrong address.
You are probably answering someone else.
I never talk about abstract numbers.
My post was about practical use of 24p advantage on the 5020 (Standard and Advance modes).

If you are interested: some people do instrumental tests of the 5020 with those numbers in mind.
Please see here. They believe that you just confused the 5020 with elite models.
Thank you.

I know exactly what display I'm talking about. I've already calibrated 72 9G non-Elites.

Answer this question with a YES or NO...

Do you have a device that shows you the refresh rate of a display? In English, that means can it tell you per a readout what the current refresh rate is?

And before you even attempt to skip over the question, the refresh rate MATTERS when it comes to 1080p/24. Any display can smooth out film judder as long as it can do 3:2 pulldown and that included a 1080p/24 signal.

bmwolf knows there are two types of judder.... you being stuck on stupid fail to realize that. And for the record you cannot tell the refresh rate of a display with a camera. You can only attempt to sync the camera with the pulldown....which works sometimes and sometimes does not.
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post #9632 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncnmra View Post

Not as far as I could tell. I can clearly see 60Hz flicker when I have my satellite box connected to the Kuro (@ 720p output).

EDIT: I don't know what is meant by "film based material" in D-Nice's description of Advance setting.

24fps material that can be extracted from any type of signal (480i. 480p, 720p. 1080i).
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post #9633 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncnmra View Post

D-Nice, is there *any* way to get 72Hz from the Kuro for regular TV, and even better, 72Hz for a PC connected to the Kuro?

Unfortunately, I'm very sensitive to the 60Hz flicker.

Have you read the manual to see if the display can accept a 72Hz (or 75Hz) PC signal?
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post #9634 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheedoe View Post

I thought the 'Advance' mode will display at 72Hz regardless of signal, so I guess thats the mode you're looking for.......

no, the Kuros will only display 60hz when a 60Hz tv signal is received, you cannot use the Advance mode to get it to display 72Hz from the 60hz broadcast signal.

HD HD HD I Need more HD, Yes I am a HD Addict :)
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post #9635 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dssturbo1 View Post

no, the Kuros will only display 60hz when a 60Hz tv signal is received, you cannot use the Advance mode to get it to display 72Hz from the 60hz broadcast signal.

yeah you can, see d-nice above

the only source advance does not work on is 1080p60
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post #9636 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Have you read the manual to see if the display can accept a 72Hz (or 75Hz) PC signal?

Yeah, page 74 lists all the PC modes, and they are all 60Hz, which is frustrating, because I *know* it can do 72Hz, and would save my eyes from bugging out when I have my PC connected and surfing the web.
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post #9637 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncnmra View Post

Yeah, page 74 lists all the PC modes, and they are all 60Hz, which is frustrating, because I *know* it can do 72Hz, and would save my eyes from bugging out when I have my PC connected and surfing the web.

I'm almost positive it can do 75Hz when in PC mode.
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post #9638 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I'm almost positive it can do 75Hz when in PC mode.

If it can, I haven't found a way to force it through control panel on my video card.. I suppose it could be a limitation of the HDMI input on my receiver (Pio 1018).. I can try a direct connection to the tv tonight and see if there is a way to force it to display 75Hz
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post #9639 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrmgic View Post

If it can, I haven't found a way to force it through control panel on my video card.. I suppose it could be a limitation of the HDMI input on my receiver (Pio 1018).. I can try a direct connection to the tv tonight and see if there is a way to force it to display 75Hz

I highly doubt you can do 75Hz through a receiver. You need a direct connection to the panel.
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post #9640 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I highly doubt you can do 75Hz through a receiver. You need a direct connection to the panel.

I'll give it a try when I get home tonight. There's an annoying refresh rate issue with ATI drivers and Windows 7 and I think forcing 75hz would clear it up.. (it always goes back to 1080i@30hz on bootup instead of 1080p@60Hz)
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post #9641 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 01:17 PM
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D-Nice, Following up on SheeDoe's question, If I only watch Satellite programs at 1080i, couldn't I just keep Pure Cinema in "OFF" Mode all the time.

You stated that all signals that are not 1080p/24 would be at 60HZ.

This would be easier. Thanks
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post #9642 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 01:21 PM
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I am thinking about buying this through amazon but they only seem to have 19 left in stock.
Tell me how fast do they sell through that, and will they get another supply of them?
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post #9643 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 01:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwalsh View Post

D-Nice, Following up on SheeDoe's question, If I only watch Satellite programs at 1080i, couldn't I just keep Pure Cinema in "OFF" Mode all the time.

You stated that all signals that are not 1080p/24 would be at 60HZ.

This would be easier. Thanks

You could. Just rememeber that there would be zero pulldown done on film based 480i, 720p, 1080i material
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post #9644 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post


Do you have a device that shows you the refresh rate of a display? In English, that means can it tell you per a readout what the current refresh rate is?

I am telling you in English.
All the steaming about refresh rate numbers has zero value for practical users.
We are practical users. That concludes its language vocabulary and theoretical knowledge.
This is what practical users have (a standard set to get the best of 5020):
5020
BD player
Two remotes
Blu-ray movies
Nothing else matters.

With BD player remote we set BD player to 24p On or Off.
With 5020 remote we chose from PureCinema Off>Standard>Smooth>Advance.

What for do we switch BD-player from 24p Off to On?
To see the advantage of 24p on our 5020.
What for do we switch PureCinema modes Off/Standard/Smooth/Advance?
To see the advantage of 24p on our 5020.

There is no room for theory here.
Our eyes and two remotes.
One click on 24p On.
Then four clicks on PureCinema.
Standard and Advance are helpful.
Off and Smooth are useless.
Works equally in all languages.

Quote:


...there are two types of judder.... you being stuck on stupid fail to realize that.

????
I know that pretty well. That's elementary.
Does this unique knowledge help press remote's buttons better?
The 5020 accepts only one click on BD-player remote and four clicks on PureCinema menu.
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post #9645 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 01:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Case and point. I'm done attempting to discuss items that are far beyond your intelligence level.

You are now on my ignore list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by video313 View Post

I am telling you in English.
All the steaming about refresh rate numbers has zero value for practical users.
We are practical users.
This is what practical users have (a standard set to get the best of 5020):
5020
BD player
Two remotes
Blu-ray movies
Nothing else matters.

With BD player remote we set BD player to 24p On or Off.
With 5020 remote we chose from PureCinema Off>Standard>Smooth>Advance.

What for do we switch BD-player from 24p Off to On?
To see the advantage of 24p on our 5020.
What for do we switch PureCinema modes Off/Standard/Smooth/Advance?
To see the advantage of 24p on our 5020.

There is no room for theory here.
Our eyes and two remotes.
One click on 24p On.
Then four clicks on PureCinema.
Standard and Advance are helpful.
Off and Smooth are useless.
Works equally in all languages.

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post #9646 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I And for the record you cannot tell the refresh rate of a display with a camera. You can only attempt to sync the camera with the pulldown....which works sometimes and sometimes does not.

I completely agree that a camcorder cannot be used to determine the refresh rate of a display.. But, unless I am missing something ( and I may very well be ), it can be used to determine what the refresh rate isn't...

It seems to me that the captured footage will always show flicker on video recorded/viewed off a display which is, refreshing at a rate higher than the capture rate, and is not divisible by the capture rate.

But, I am by no means an expert on any of this, and would love to find a mode on the non-elites that allowed for modified grayscale and performed 3:3 pulldown.
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post #9647 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 02:19 PM
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Okay....let me throw out a few disclaimers here before I get stomped for asking....but I've been reading these threads like crazy. I'm at the point that I think I will try to buy a Home Theater for Dummies book for some way to get my brain (stuck on pause) to really understand this stuff. But I could really use some straight talk now....as I'm on the verge of watching my new Kuro. First a few disclaimers...

Confession/Disclaimer #1 -

I really don't understand squat when it comes to pull down, fps, refresh rates, etc, etc.

Confession/Disclaimer #2 -

I'm not sure I believe it's necessary for me to learn these things to enjoy my new set-up....if others will translate this stuff into a language I can understand.

I promise you...if I can understand it...anyone can! I'm tempted to start a new Kuro NE 9G thread for people who just need to know what the heck to do.

My set-up:

TV - PDP6020FD
AVR - Marantz sr7002
Sony PS3
Dish Network VIP722 HD Satellite Receiver.


Can anyone be kind and tell me in simple terms...

What settings should I have when I watch:

1. Satellite and OTA channels. (Dish reportedly has some VOD channels that are delivered at 1080p/24fps)

2. Bluray's

3. PS3 Games

I hate feeling so ignorant but I'm pretty much discouraged after reading hundreds of posts. I think I forget faster than I learn!

Specifically, I'm not so interested in color, contrast, etc...but more interested in what mode....like Movie, Sport, etc...and what Pure Cinema Modes for each application.

I am almost at the end of running the break in images using DNice's settings....and plan to go to his "reference" settings afterwards. Beyond this...I'm kind of confused! Can someone make it simple? Something I can put on an index card and laminate!

Thanks!

PS. I promise I'll never film my tv with a camcorder!
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post #9648 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

...You are now on my ignore list.

Many of us have done that long ago!!! For you, many of us look for your responses to learn more about the panel!
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post #9649 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Hef View Post

Many of us have done that long ago!!! For you, many of us look for your responses to learn more about the panel!

My only regret is that his quoted posts show up even though I have him ignored.

Looking forward to getting my 5020 calibrated.
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post #9650 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 02:46 PM
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I've never returned an item through Amazon, and I am really considering returning my 5020 due to the buzz, so how would I go about doing this. (it is now at a different address than what they delivered it to, and I would rather not haul it back to my office where the delivered it, so can I have them pick it up at my house instead?)

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post #9651 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Case and point. I'm done attempting to discuss items that are far beyond your intelligence level.

You are now on my ignore list.

Glad you have finally decided to join me. This brainless twit has been the one and only member of my Ignore Club for some weeks. I predict that your having done so will improve your digestion and your mental health.
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post #9652 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ-phYre View Post

I can use these settings for proper break-in and occasional viewing.

No. The settings you listed are for viewing, not for D-Nice's break-in.

Quote:


I only view 1-2 hours a day right now anyways... I am also aware of all other things to avoid (stagnant images, ect).

According to D-Nice, to get any advantage from his break-in settings, they should be used exclusively with the break-in DVD for the first 150 hours.

In your case, there isn't much advantage in using D-Nice's break-in settings. What you want to do is avoid black bars and fixed images for the first 150 to 200 hours while you use the viewing settings of your choice.
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post #9653 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

I've never returned an item through Amazon, and I am really considering returning my 5020 due to the buzz, so how would I go about doing this.

Contacting Amazon's customer service might be a good place to start.

You will need authorization from them as a first step.
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post #9654 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

Glad you have finally decided to join me. This brainless twit has been the one and only member of my Ignore Club for some weeks. I predict that your having done so will improve your digestion and your mental health.

He is also the only person on my ignore list. He needs to funnel his determination and persistence into something positive.
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post #9655 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 03:54 PM
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Wow, lots of bickeringon here...lol. No biggie because I ran my break in period and I just got my 5020 calibrated a few ours ago by Clearly Resolved and let me tell you wow, what a nice pic. I am so looking forward to watching some high quality HD content oh yeah... This TV just keeps getting better every day
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post #9656 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 04:50 PM
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Just had my 5020 calibrated by D-Nice yesterday. Difference was so obvious even my wife noticed. So, if you get the opportunuty to have D-Nice calibrate you set, it is well worth it. Great person and great experience. He explains everything to you as he goes.
Here are my results.


Attachment 135405

Attachment 135406

 

Pioneer PDP-5020FD Post Calibration Forum Report (Movie).pdf 196.5283203125k . file

 

Pioneer PDP-5020FD Pre Calibration Forum Report (Movie).pdf 204.60546875k . file
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File Type: pdf Pioneer PDP-5020FD Pre Calibration Forum Report (Movie).pdf (204.6 KB, 0 views)
File Type: pdf Pioneer PDP-5020FD Post Calibration Forum Report (Movie).pdf (196.5 KB, 2 views)
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post #9657 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I highly doubt you can do 75Hz through a receiver. You need a direct connection to the panel.

I have my elite running through my Yamaha RX-V1800 so all this time I haven't been getting my 24p converted to 72p when in advanced/off!?
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post #9658 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorScott View Post

Just had my 5020 calibrated by D-Nice yesterday.

Thanks for your calibration report. I've included it in the flat panel (Post#2) list that's linked at the bottom of my post.
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post #9659 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Natural View Post

I have my elite running through my Yamaha RX-V1800 so all this time I haven't been getting my 24p converted to 72p when in advanced/off!?

You may be confussed. Nothing is being input into your RX-V1800 at 72 Hz. The 3:3 pull down from 24 Hz to 72 Hz takes place in your Dispay.

D-Nice was referring to a computer signal at 75 Hz.
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post #9660 of 15008 Old 03-02-2009, 05:42 PM
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Bump!

My set-up:

TV - PDP6020FD
AVR - Marantz sr7002
Sony PS3
Dish Network VIP722 HD Satellite Receiver. [/b]

Can anyone be kind and tell me in simple terms...

What settings should I have when I watch:

1. Satellite and OTA channels. (Dish reportedly has some VOD channels that are delivered at 1080p/24fps)

2. Bluray's

3. PS3 Games

I hate feeling so ignorant but I'm pretty much discouraged after reading hundreds of posts. I think I forget faster than I learn!

Specifically, I'm not so interested in color, contrast, etc...but more interested in what mode....like Movie, Sport, etc...and what Pure Cinema Modes for each application.

I am almost at the end of running the break in images using DNice's settings....and plan to go to his "reference" settings afterwards. Beyond this...I'm kind of confused! Can someone make it simple? Something I can put on an index card and laminate!

Anyone?
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