The Official Pioneer 9G non-Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 334 - AVS Forum
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post #9991 of 15008 Old 03-08-2009, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kelvin96gsr View Post

just received my 5020 and everything is great except for the way it displays whites Movie mode seems noticeably yellow when I put up a "white" screen" will this go away as I use it?

You need to calibrate it to raise the color temp for Movie mode.
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post #9992 of 15008 Old 03-08-2009, 08:15 PM
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post #9993 of 15008 Old 03-08-2009, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

Yeah, there is that... nothing you can do to fix it, but I don't think it's terribly noticeable. An oversaturated red primary is still definitely NOT Red Push -- completely different thing.

Agreed, the skintones look much better on my set after using the posted offsets. My old PZ85U had red push and this is much worse.

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post #9994 of 15008 Old 03-09-2009, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

Improved, yes... fixed? not completely. And there is some set-to-set variation in how much the primaries and/or secondaries improve. Last one I did, the primaries improved a tiny bit, secondaries improved more.

No doubt. This is why I generally prefer to post advice on how to make your own adjustments to your own display rather than posting my shared settings. No question that shared settings are helpful but we can't conclude that someone else is seeing exactly what we are seeing with shared settings.

I think Patrick's original reference as how accurate the color is on an XX20 after calibration is based on "shared settings" that are posted here. Unit to unit variation is why shared posted settings cannot in anyway guarantee to equal a custom professional calibration.

It sounds like you found a greater color improvement from calibrating the previous 5020 vs. calibrating the last one? In both cases however it appears that color improved after calibration, in one case more than the other. Now imagine with such variation from unit to unit you applied one set of shared calibration settings?

This is all the more a reminder than even the best shared calibration settings such as those posted by D-Nice both with and without ControlCal cannot be as precise a good job on a professional calibration for specific display unit and environment. Although I'm sure his shared settings improve most if not all displays there has some be some "Pot luck" as to how accurate the results are for a given Kuro with any shared settings.

"Fixed" color accuracy I suppose to you as a calibrator would imply something very close to numerically accurate color saturation on both primary and secondary color points? This is a Colorspace 1 calibration as well so it's going to have a bit of extra color saturation in any event right?

For that matter as I understand it even the Elite's with Color Space mode 2 comes closer to the HDTV standard Rec. 709 but is not numerically perfect which would require the DCI standard. My comments are more about the subjective accuracy of what majority of owners can actually see (as opposed to the most trained eyes in the world).

For instance I can fairly easily see skin tones that are "a bit rosy" esp. when I also happen to have another calibrated display to A/B against in the same room on the same material which I do. Correct me if I'm wrong but logically also I would not expect to see much in the way of visibly inaccurate skin tones from relatively small amounts over-saturation such as I would expect after a good calibration of an XX20.

Quote:


Certain saturated colors may also be pushed outside R'G'B' gamut and clipped. Numerically speaking, the difference is very large. In practice, the difference is subtle and is usually not noticed. This is partly because:

We aren't very sensitive to (small) color inaccuracies. This is especially so when there is no side-by-side comparison.
  • Real world images tend not to contain highly saturated colors (a random distribution of R'G'B' values would contain much more highly saturated colors). These errors are strongest for highly saturated colors.
  • Most film and video material do not contain large patches of color, which make it easier to discriminate between colors.
  • In consumer applications, consumer TVs tend to be (wildly) color inaccurate to begin with.

D-Nice posted that he has calibrated 72+ Non-Elite Kuros Based on the above points and his experience across multiple units I tend think his observation on what the subjective color accuracy should look like post calibration makes a lot of sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

The 8G non-Elites are not the same as the 9G non-Elites just like the 8G Elites are not the same as the 9G Elites. Post calibration a 9G non-Elite will look damn near a 9G Elite except for scenes with very large amounts of red or green.... and even in those scenes the differences are very minimum.


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post #9995 of 15008 Old 03-09-2009, 02:45 AM
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Originally Posted by platinumpapi View Post

Whenever i am watching a movie, and their is a very dark scene, i can notice sort of like grey side bars that appear on the screen sometimes. As if the sidebars on a 4:3 program left a footprint. Whenever i am aware of this i can easily make them out , because the sides which are a lighter black , but sort of grayish are lighter then the center.

what can i do to fix this problem?

Run the break-in images again for (?) hours, and run the Video Pattern function on the TV. Some have had success with that.

God Bless,
-Clint
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post #9996 of 15008 Old 03-09-2009, 02:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

No cable or satellite channels are in 1080p, but DISH has a 1080p pay-per-view service that's NOT Blu-ray quality in spite of their marketing-speak.

Thanks.

God Bless,
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post #9997 of 15008 Old 03-09-2009, 03:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marde View Post

Clint,
If you do not have time to read this entire post, here first are the quick answers instead.
More than 98% of my movies are not from downloading. (FWIW - I do not play in the world of .mkv files.) My movies, music and pictures are stored on Hard Disk Drives (HDD's). I believe you are referring to USB drives such as external HDD's with a USB interface. I am using USB HDD's, but my primary storage device is not USB HDD's. I have a ReadyNAS NV+ with four 1.5 Tera Byte disks, this thing does the bulk of my data storage but most of my Blu-ray Disc (BD) movie back-ups are stored on a 3TB USB external HDD enclosure (two 1.5-TB disks inside one box). I can play these on my Kuro without pulling out the orginal disc. Playback quality of these BD files on my Tvix 6500 is the same as using my PS3. However, using the Tvix 6500, I am able to select and hear the DTS-HD or True-HD audio tracks, yet my PS3 can not do that. (btw, the HD audio is bit-streamed to my HD-audio capable AVR.)

Wow, sounds like you're serious about movies, LOL. I was just curious about the feasibility or practicality of putting d'loaded movies on USB thumb drives (or HDD's for that matter). But after realizing many if not all of these d'load sites are apparently "using a Commodore 64 as their server", it's not practical. (There's a thread on the Pioneer demo disk, the content is only 49 minutes long, and it's 13gb in size and would take about 6.5 days continuous to d'load even on broadband).

God Bless,
-Clint
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post #9998 of 15008 Old 03-09-2009, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyscore View Post

I have had this set since June of last year and just love it. I have dialed it in to the way I like it with a little more punch but with good shadow detail and accurate skin tones.

I"m hoping that the great people of this forum could answer a couple of questions.

1) With Pioneer getting out of the Plasma business, what will we do for parts in the future ?

2) I live in Canada and Pioneer says that only US KURO'S require the firmware update, why is this ?

Usually with electronics your bragging rights only last for a short time but with this set our bragging rights will last for some time, I would guess until affordable, large, long lastind OLED's come into play. It's a shame Pioneer has left the Plasma market because the name Pioneer say it all in the plasma world.

Thanks to all

I received an e-mail last week to do the firmware update in Canada. I can't say it changed anything but it did not change my settings either. I wrote them all down just in case. Here is the website.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/POC...+and+PRO-151FD
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post #9999 of 15008 Old 03-09-2009, 05:58 AM
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D-Nice,

someone had mentioned that you suggested cleaning the screen with distilled water in order to get rid of the dirty screen effect. Is this true? I know that some sets have an uneven application of the AR filter which causes some dirty spots, but mine literally covers the entire screen in certain conditions. Mostly horizontal lines with one or two vertical. On the flip side I've heard some have oil from the factory which causes this look and it can be cleaned off.

I may be stuck with this set if Newegg keeps pulling the crap I mentioned in my last post, so I'm looking for advice....because this is driving me insane.
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post #10000 of 15008 Old 03-09-2009, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by platinumpapi View Post

Whenever i am watching a movie, and their is a very dark scene, i can notice sort of like the grey side bars that appear on the screen sometimes, left a foot print. If i am ware that they are their i can tell, because the sides (blacks which are kinda grayish) are lighter then the center.

So what can i do to fix this problem?

How are you watching Standard Definition TV (4:3). Are you using black bars or grey bars. One test I did was to go to an unused input with the TV on. The room has to be pitch black though. Once I did this I could confirm that we had a darker center like you described.

I've been told that it is image burn as we used to watch 4:3 television with black bars for only about 6 months. What I now to is I watch 4:3 with either grey bars or that auto stretch where everyone is short and fat. I hate both so I try to avoid 4:3. I also run the VIDEO PATTERN more and after a few weeks I think it is getting better. I don't notice it in any actual content. Only like you said, when the TV goes black for a few seconds between scenes. So it doesn't affect my quality viewing, it just makes SD programs even worse than they already are as I can't watch with black bars.
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post #10001 of 15008 Old 03-09-2009, 06:21 AM
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Quote:


I've been told that it is image burn as we used to watch 4:3 television with black bars for only about 6 months.

I've experienced 4:3 uneven wear in the first 1-2 months luckily I caught it early before it was noticeable on regular watching. I think it's more or less gone but it's taken quite a while, probably several multiples of the time I watched 4:3.

Also noticed some horizontal lines, there's one across the screen right in the middle about 1cm tall. Only noticeable during vertical pans.

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post #10002 of 15008 Old 03-09-2009, 07:06 AM
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Does anyone here have a quantitative measure of how using Power Save Mode 2 affects the panel output? I know it affects whites, but how much? Does it affect other color performance or any other PQ aspect?
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post #10003 of 15008 Old 03-09-2009, 07:28 AM
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I just received the 5020. This is my first HDTV. I started running the break-in images using a USB thumb drive. Everything was going great the first 1/2 hour till I noticed a thin pinkish line showing up on the left side of the screen. It's located 3" from the left side and about a foot and 1/2 long vertical from the top. I can't see it on the red and blue screens, but I can on the green, gray, and white screens. Any ideas what this is and how to fix it? Thanks!
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post #10004 of 15008 Old 03-09-2009, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tech15 View Post

I just received the 5020. This is my first HDTV. I started running the break-in images using a USB thumb drive. Everything was going great the first 1/2 hour till I noticed a thin pinkish line showing up on the left side of the screen. It's located 3" from the left side and about a foot and 1/2 long vertical from the top. I can't see it on the red and blue screens, but I can on the green, gray, and white screens. Any ideas what this is and how to fix it? Thanks!

Sounds bad, and probably not fixable. I'd report that immediately. I doubt the Video Pattern function would do anything to that.

God Bless,
-Clint
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post #10005 of 15008 Old 03-09-2009, 08:23 AM
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Thanks for replying Clint. I can really see the line on the green pics. It's a solid black line, but on the gray and white pics it's a thinner and pinkish line. Nothing on the red and blue pics. It doesn't make sense to me. I'm bummed, cause this is my 2nd 5020 that was sent to me in 2 weeks. The first one had the carton torn and a small hole with cracks in the screen. This TV had no physical issues on the carton or TV, but the shock sensor was missing. I'm going to run the break-in images some more while I notify the vendor of this issue.
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post #10006 of 15008 Old 03-09-2009, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deathrattlehead View Post

D-Nice,

someone had mentioned that you suggested cleaning the screen with distilled water in order to get rid of the dirty screen effect. Is this true? I know that some sets have an uneven application of the AR filter which causes some dirty spots, but mine literally covers the entire screen in certain conditions. Mostly horizontal lines with one or two vertical. On the flip side I've heard some have oil from the factory which causes this look and it can be cleaned off.

I may be stuck with this set if Newegg keeps pulling the crap I mentioned in my last post, so I'm looking for advice....because this is driving me insane.

This was a fatal move IMHO: "they offered me a refund to which I agreed, but then called them back and said to hold off because I want to see if the problem goes away."

A_C

Manhattan Supremacist
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post #10007 of 15008 Old 03-09-2009, 08:33 AM
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My 6020 arrived Thursday, after sitting at a dock 50 miles away for at least 4 days. Delivery went smooth. Two men carried it in for me. I asked if they could help attach the stand and put on the tv stand. One said "We'd have to charge a fortune for that" and I told them I'd givem 20 bucks, he said ok. No breakage, no stuck pixels, no buzzing. I've got about 85 hrs of break in on it so far with the usb drive and all is well - with the tv. I'll try to get some pictures a little later.

I had wanted to get 151 originally, but finances insisted I go with the 6020 and WOW, I don't regret it at all. I got a great deal from Alex and all at Invision - Thanks to them.

My only problem is that my sc-05 seems to have went pu-pu. I fumbled through setting up the 51 and then the dish and got them both working finally. It was a humbling experience. After the dish was working I went back to the 51 to make sure I had everything set right and there was no sound. Tried the dish, same thing. Tried a USB music flash drive - same thing, but the sub works. Didn't mean to get off topic, I have this issue posted in the sc-05 owners thread, but needed to vent a little. Probably will end up as a call to Pioneer.

Back to the tv. Great picture out of the box. I can live with the tv speakers for awhile if I have to send the receiver in. Running breakin pretty much 24/7 and should be done by Thursday. I want to eventually get ControlCal, but I don't have a laptop. Might drag the desktop closer for a day or borrow my daughters laptop when she comes up for a visit.

Proud to be an official owner, finally.

Bill

UPDATE: Found the speaker button in the 05 and all is well. User error.

There are no answers, only choices.
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post #10008 of 15008 Old 03-09-2009, 09:31 AM
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Just got the call, my 6020 is being delivered tomorrow! I have "white glove delivery" which should provide simple setup. I'm hoping they'll hang it on the wall for me as everything is ready, just need to screw the brackets to the TV and plug the cables in. What should I check for before signing off on it? I know about using a flashlight to check for cracks in the glass, then power it up. Anything else?
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post #10009 of 15008 Old 03-09-2009, 09:39 AM
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Buzz - upon receipt there was absolutely no buzz. After the 150 hour breakin and use for a month I have a buzz. Its noticable when there is a menu on the screen and no other noise coming from the TV. I can live with it.

Calibration - I calibrated the gray scale with control cal using D-Nice's settings. I don't think that you should have to calibrate a new $2000 TV. But I did and it makes a difference. The first thing I noticed was the whites were whiter. I purchased the $60 setup from Turbe. The purchase procedures with the "donation" process are awkward and the actual instructions leave something to be desired. If you chose to calibrate, suggest reading the Pioneer non-elite thread on the control cal site until you are comfortable. I still had to go through the calibration process twice to get it right. My experience is that the picture is noticeably better after calibration. Do it!

SD Viewing - Terrible until I took a recommendation from this board and changed from:
TIVOHD > HDMI > Receiver
to
TIVOHD > component > Receiver.
There was a very noticeable improvement in quality. I use HDMI from the receiver to the flat pannel.

I did not install the TV's speaker. If you have a 5.1 speaker system the TV's speaker isn't necessary. I did connect an optical sound cable from the TV to the receiver for HMG sound through the TV's USB port.

There are alot of comments about the TVs remote. I use the Harmony 880 and can control 90% of the commands from the TIVO, TV, and receiver.

The only other thing worth mentioning is that I also purchased a Pioneer VSX-03 at the same time I purchased the 5020. I have a good set of speakers and the sound is fantastic. I highly recommend the VSX-03 (the 01 is functionally almost identical).

I'm not happy with Pioneer's decision to stop plasma production. This may mean that we won't see further firmware updates or the potential to improve the HMG application. I am happy with the 5020 and its beautiful picture. Hopefully it will last at least half a dozen years.
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post #10010 of 15008 Old 03-09-2009, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stedmakr View Post

But I did and it makes a difference. The first thing I noticed was the whites were whiter.



Quote:
Originally Posted by stedmakr View Post

the actual instructions leave something to be desired.

What's wrong with the step-by-step?

Need to find a Professional Calibrator? Click Here to PM me with your Display & City

Calibrator List - Pioneer ISFccc Interface

Calibration Reports - Pioneer

 

ControlCAL™
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No need to fumble through the Display's Menu with its Remote Control™

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post #10011 of 15008 Old 03-09-2009, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stedmakr View Post

Buzz - upon receipt there was absolutely no buzz. After the 150 hour breakin and use for a month I have a buzz. Its noticable when there is a menu on the screen and no other noise coming from the TV. I can live with it.

Now that's got me worried and wondering if my current no-buzzing is going to start buzzing soon. (About 170 hrs on it now).


Quote:


Calibration - I calibrated the gray scale with control cal using D-Nice's settings. I don't think that you should have to calibrate a new $2000 TV.

You don't. Mine (5020) looks perfect to me without it.


Quote:


SD Viewing - Terrible until I took a recommendation from this board and changed from:
TIVOHD > HDMI > Receiver
to
TIVOHD > component > Receiver.
There was a very noticeable improvement in quality. I use HDMI from the receiver to the flat pannel.

Good to know. Did that affect your HD quality?


Quote:


I did not install the TV's speaker. If you have a 5.1 speaker system the TV's speaker isn't necessary. I did connect an optical sound cable from the TV to the receiver for HMG sound through the TV's USB port.

Careful of that. I don't if this TV's amp will do it, but many amps will blow if you don't have any load (speakers) connected to them while it's trying to output power. If there's an option to turn them off without affecting audio to your receiver, then I'd do it.


Quote:


I'm not happy with Pioneer's decision to stop plasma production. This may mean that we won't see further firmware updates or the potential to improve the HMG application. I am happy with the 5020 and its beautiful picture. Hopefully it will last at least half a dozen years.

They are still going to be supporting their TV's for 7 years. That means warranties, support, but I would think any firmware as well.

God Bless,
-Clint
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post #10012 of 15008 Old 03-09-2009, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tech15 View Post

Thanks for replying Clint. I can really see the line on the green pics. It's a solid black line, but on the gray and white pics it's a thinner and pinkish line. Nothing on the red and blue pics. It doesn't make sense to me. I'm bummed, cause this is my 2nd 5020 that was sent to me in 2 weeks. The first one had the carton torn and a small hole with cracks in the screen. This TV had no physical issues on the carton or TV, but the shock sensor was missing. I'm going to run the break-in images some more while I notify the vendor of this issue.

It may be quicker to run the Video Pattern a few times. Maybe you'll see a result from it.

God Bless,
-Clint
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post #10013 of 15008 Old 03-09-2009, 11:19 AM
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was watching a bluray disc yesterday with the wife & kids, halfway through the film, my 5020 shuts down, and i get the power indicator led blinking red. unplugged the set for 5 minutes, plug back in, try again, same result.

of course i heard from the wife saying what a disappointment, for supposedly one of the best tvs out there.

the tv is 40 days old. tech already scheduled to look at it on wednesday, but in the meantime, i contacted pioneer support. they said that a board inside the panel needs to be replaced. i pressed for more details, but the support rep said the tech needs to evaluate it, as it could be anything. he also mentions that this is a rare problem.

doing a search i found 2 other members (JJ7 (6020) and elski (elite 151)) who had the same issue. did anyone else have this unfortunate issue? was it resolved via, repair, a replacement part or a complete new set?

thanks in advance, and hopefully not too many have the issue.

cheers
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post #10014 of 15008 Old 03-09-2009, 11:33 AM
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Do I still need to install the speaker bar to the TV even if I am not using it? I already have a system setup and putting the bar would just waste space.
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post #10015 of 15008 Old 03-09-2009, 11:40 AM
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You do not need to install the speaker bar. It's optional.
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post #10016 of 15008 Old 03-09-2009, 11:57 AM
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Is it common to have 2 faint lines about 1/3 of the way down from the screen?

The lines run parallel from left to right from one end to the other. They are about 1" apart from each other. The lines are almost invisible, I only noticed it due the lightning angle.

It looks like the filter is applied in 3 stages, or maybe it's just an anomaly on my set.

It is external, there is nothing wrong with the actual pixels.
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post #10017 of 15008 Old 03-09-2009, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hwakin View Post

was watching a bluray disc yesterday with the wife & kids, halfway through the film, my 5020 shuts down, and i get the power indicator led blinking red. unplugged the set for 5 minutes, plug back in, try again, same result.

of course i heard from the wife saying what a disappointment, for supposedly one of the best tvs out there.

the tv is 40 days old. tech already scheduled to look at it on wednesday, but in the meantime, i contacted pioneer support. they said that a board inside the panel needs to be replaced. i pressed for more details, but the support rep said the tech needs to evaluate it, as it could be anything. he also mentions that this is a rare problem.

doing a search i found 2 other members (JJ7 (6020) and elski (elite 151)) who had the same issue. did anyone else have this unfortunate issue? was it resolved via, repair, a replacement part or a complete new set?

thanks in advance, and hopefully not too many have the issue.

cheers

Is there a sequence to the blinking red lights? If so, please post so those of us with the service manual can look it up; and possibly isolate the particular point of failure.

A_C

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post #10018 of 15008 Old 03-09-2009, 12:42 PM
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It's previously been recommended here not to lay the screen flat during assembly. Is it possibly to mount the speaker bar while vertical if using wall brackets instead of the stand?
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post #10019 of 15008 Old 03-09-2009, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Agent_C View Post

Is there a sequence to the blinking red lights? If so, please post so those of us with the service manual can look it up; and possibly isolate the particular point of failure.

A_C

from what i recall, 2 red blinks, pause, 2 red blinks, pause (loop)
also, there have been more than 2 forum members that had the problem (depends on the keyword search you perform, i.e. blinking vs flashing etc)

can you post the service manual as an attachment, or direct me to a link?
it's not on the pio website....

thanks!
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post #10020 of 15008 Old 03-09-2009, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjf1 View Post

It's previously been recommended here not to lay the screen flat during assembly. Is it possibly to mount the speaker bar while vertical if using wall brackets instead of the stand?

Probably not.

Put the display on it's stand, attach the speakers, and then lift it off of it's stand to mount it on the wall.
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Pioneer , Pioneer Pdp 5020fd 50 Inch 1080p Kuro Plasma Hdtv , Pioneer Pdp 6020fd 60 Inch Class Kuro Plasma Hdtv
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