The Official Pioneer 9G non-Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 412 - AVS Forum
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post #12331 of 15008 Old 09-14-2009, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzook11 View Post

I dont only watch bluray. Most of my source is 1080i/720p that i upconvert with the ONK.

Understood but the ISF settings are useless without proper calibration equipment. Your best bet is to run the recommended settings on the Kuro (with or without SM offsets) and leave the default settings in the Onkyo.

Things you can play with are the noise reduction settings.


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post #12332 of 15008 Old 09-14-2009, 04:51 PM
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dools767,
Thanks a bunch! You were right, it was the input button. Now I can cancel the local Pioneer serviceman that was going to come out and due warranty work.

again, thanks

Keith
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post #12333 of 15008 Old 09-14-2009, 09:53 PM
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Good afternoon everyone,

I'm down in Australia and have just done approximately 100 odd hours on my C509A.

I have Standard Def satellite TV via HDMI Input 4 and then have my BDP51 Bluray connected to a 1019 Receiver via HDMI then the receiver to the TV via HDMI to input 5.

I read through many posts looking for the best settings for SD viewing and then for the Bluray.

I take it if I change the settings in "Standard" AV mode for input 4 they will stay "applied" to input 4, likewise if I change the settings in Movie AV mode they will stay applied for input 5 for Bluray playback and WDTV playback.

Lastly, can I change/rename the inputs, for example Input 4 - change to "Foxtel", input 5 change to "Receiver"

Sorry if some of this has been covered previously, but after reading through almost 40 pages of posts, my eye's were getting sore LMAO.

Thanks
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post #12334 of 15008 Old 09-15-2009, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHASLS2 View Post

Thanks for the links. What brand and model number subwoofer are you using with the Kuro? And what kind of wire would i need?

Just a regular RCA style subwoofer cable available everywhere. Plug into the subwoofer and the back of the TV and let the low frequencies rock.

I picked up a nice Mirage on a close-out/return from BB. More speaker than needed for the TV I think but the 6020 drives it very nicely. Must be a little bit of that famous Pio audio tech in the display...


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post #12335 of 15008 Old 09-16-2009, 05:58 AM
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I just recently purchased a 500M Pioneer from my local home theater store. When watching the TV I am hearing a very high pitched whine. It is a steady pitched squeal around the range of what you would hear from a camera flash recharging. Is this normal? I understand that plasmas can have a slight buzzing sound to them but this sounds different.

I called my home theater store and they said they would replace it.
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post #12336 of 15008 Old 09-16-2009, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckett View Post

I just recently purchased a 500M Pioneer from my local home theater store. When watching the TV I am hearing a very high pitched whine. It is a steady pitched squeal around the range of what you would hear from a camera flash recharging. Is this normal? I understand that plasmas can have a slight buzzing sound to them but this sounds different.

I called my home theater store and they said they would replace it.


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post #12337 of 15008 Old 09-16-2009, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post


If the ISF modes were somehow unlocked on the NE, I would immediately place an order for a Chroma 5 + Calman bundle.


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post #12338 of 15008 Old 09-17-2009, 08:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrinklefree View Post

If the ISF modes were somehow unlocked on the NE, I would immediately place an order for a Chroma 5 + Calman bundle.

I purchased controlcal, but not chroma 5. Is this really true? Do you have a 5020/6020? or the krp series?
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post #12339 of 15008 Old 09-17-2009, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by suzook11 View Post

I purchased controlcal, but not chroma 5. Is this really true? Do you have a 5020/6020? or the krp series?

I have a calibrated 5020. I sense busy little bees are working on a patch similar to the KRP series, which would be wonderful IMO.


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post #12340 of 15008 Old 09-17-2009, 11:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrinklefree View Post

I have a calibrated 5020. I sense busy little bees are working on a patch similar to the KRP series, which would be wonderful IMO.

i read your post incorrectly, i thought they were unlocked.
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post #12341 of 15008 Old 09-17-2009, 12:27 PM
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If the ISF modes were released for the xx20 series I would get my set calibrated by a professional.

Too bad we don't have pure mode though to complement the ISF modes, unless that could be fixed.
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post #12342 of 15008 Old 09-18-2009, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dools767 View Post

Will Harmony One allow you to access the Tools menu where you can change the TV picture mode? Regarding the side panel buttons I don't believe that you can access the menu, I just see volume, channel, and input

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Our Harmony remote can access all the setup menus on an 8G Kuro.

I'm a bit stuck and could use a hand... it's probobly a simple answer.

I was lucky enough to get a Best Buy 'open box' Kuro 5020 last night, with the extended 4 year warranty on it just in case something happens. It is in perfect condition... I have wanted a Kuro for a couple years now and the image is incredible, with no image retention at all.

The only issue is that after setting up our Harmony One remote with the codes from the database for the PDP-5020 I can enter the "Setup" menu easily, but can't seem to find how to actually select anything once in it. I can navigate using the arrow keys on the remote, but using "OK" on the remote dosen't enter the next menu down the tree.

I've essentially gone over the entire remote and hit each button and none seem to actually select the submenu. Am I missing something obvious?
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post #12343 of 15008 Old 09-18-2009, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by brainwashed View Post

I'm a bit stuck and could use a hand... it's probobly a simple answer.

I was lucky enough to get a Best Buy 'open box' Kuro 5020 last night, with the extended 4 year warranty on it just in case something happens. It is in perfect condition... I have wanted a Kuro for a couple years now and the image is incredible, with no image retention at all.

The only issue is that after setting up our Harmony One remote with the codes from the database for the PDP-5020 I can enter the "Setup" menu easily, but can't seem to find how to actually select anything once in it. I can navigate using the arrow keys on the remote, but using "OK" on the remote dosen't enter the next menu down the tree.

I've essentially gone over the entire remote and hit each button and none seem to actually select the submenu. Am I missing something obvious?

I have the same issue but haven't gotten around to setting it up properly with my Harmony. I believe you will have do the learning process with the TV remote in order for the select/enter key to work for the menu on the Harmony...
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post #12344 of 15008 Old 09-18-2009, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajvandenb View Post

I have the same issue but haven't gotten around to setting it up properly with my Harmony. I believe you will have do the learning process with the TV remote in order for the select/enter key to work for the menu on the Harmony...



That's going to be a challenge as I don't have the factory remote. I hope I don't need to scare up a second hand remote to teach the Harmony to select.

Is there anyway to change the Harmony One's button setup to what it needs to be to actually select items in the menus?
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post #12345 of 15008 Old 09-18-2009, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwashed View Post

That's going to be a challenge as I don't have the factory remote. I hope I don't need to scare up a second hand remote to teach the Harmony to select.

Is there anyway to change the Harmony One's button setup to what it needs to be to actually select items in the menus?

Strange. try adding the Kuro Elite model and see if the codes are more complete. Pro-111FD


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post #12346 of 15008 Old 09-18-2009, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrinklefree View Post

Strange. try adding the Kuro Elite model and see if the codes are more complete. Pro-111FD

I thought it was odd too.

Question:
When in the PDP-5020's Menu and looking at the word "Setup" on screen, should I be able to place the selection bar in the menu on to the word "Setup" and press the "OK" button on the remote to select it with the standard PDP-5020 code from the Harmony One database? Or do I need to use the arrows to move select the "Setup" menu?

Note:
Edited for typoes and clarity
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post #12347 of 15008 Old 09-18-2009, 05:41 PM
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You will need to go into the harmony setup software and re-map some of the buttons. It's not tough but it will take a little time.

The harmony will have full function of the 5020 although the HMG takes a bit of in-depth set-up


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post #12348 of 15008 Old 09-19-2009, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by TJ7 View Post

You will need to go into the harmony setup software and re-map some of the buttons. It's not tough but it will take a little time.

The harmony will have full function of the 5020 although the HMG takes a bit of in-depth set-up

Thanks. The only thing I'm missing is that I just don't know which button on the remote selects the "Setup" option on the factory remote? What is the factory button called that I would normally use to select something in the menu? Is there a "Select" or "OK" button that I would normally use?

Sorry to keep posting for help on something this inane. Thanks everyone.

Edit:
I just mapped "OK" on the Harmony to "Enter" for the Kuro and I'll try it out. (Sorry the above post was when I didn't have access to the Harmony or the config software)
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post #12349 of 15008 Old 09-19-2009, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwashed View Post

Thanks. The only thing I'm missing is that I just don't know which button on the remote selects the "Setup" option on the factory remote? What is the factory button called that I would normally use to select something in the menu? Is there a "Select" or "OK" button that I would normally use?

Sorry to keep posting for help on something this inane. Thanks everyone.

Edit:
I just mapped "OK" on the Harmony to "Enter" for the Kuro and I'll try it out. (Sorry the above post was when I didn't have access to the Harmony or the config software)

The Home button on the Kuro gets you into the Home Menu where you can select Setup. You also should map Exit, Tools, and Return to something on your Harmony. This should give you full functionality inside the menu system.

You should check the Kuro manual for any other buttons the Harmony is missing. My Harmony was missing the Home Media button so I had to learn it, but I think that was it.

DR
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post #12350 of 15008 Old 09-20-2009, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

No TVs operate at 24fps - that is much too slow and would result in serious motion blur problems because of the amount of time the image is flashed on the screen. Movie theaters don't even use 24fps any more... they flash each frame 2 times for a 48fps rate to improve the appearance of motion.

All current TVs show 24p content at 48p, 60p(with 3:2 pulldown), 72p, 96p, 120p or 240p. Pioneer uses 72p for the Kuro displays. Displays that use 48p often (always?) have flicker problems that annoy most owners. I've never heard (or seen) anything to complain about at frame rates of 72Hz or higher.

Doug Blackburn:

"No TVs operate at 24fps - that is much too slow and would result in serious motion blur problems because of the amount of time the image is flashed on the screen. Movie theaters don't even use 24fps any more... they flash each frame 2 times for a 48fps rate to improve the appearance of motion.

All current TVs show 24p content at 48p, 60p(with 3:2 pulldown), 72p, 96p, 120p or 240p. Pioneer uses 72p for the Kuro displays. Displays that use 48p often (always?) have flicker problems that annoy most owners. I've never heard (or seen) anything to complain about at frame rates of 72Hz or higher."

What about when televisions say that they are displaying 24 HZ aren't they playing back true 24P?
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post #12351 of 15008 Old 09-20-2009, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dools767 View Post



What about when televisions say that they are displaying 24 HZ aren't they playing back true 24P?

Thats the input signal, not necessarily the output.


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post #12352 of 15008 Old 09-20-2009, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

No TVs operate at 24fps - that is much too slow and would result in serious motion blur problems because of the amount of time the image is flashed on the screen. Movie theaters don't even use 24fps any more... they flash each frame 2 times for a 48fps rate to improve the appearance of motion.

hm...so what to the blu-ray disks that show up on the player as 24p MEAN?

and what does the Kuro MEAN when it has the 72 Hz setting for these 24p movies?

thanks - Tony

Or do you just mean that the movie IS IN FACT taken at 24 fps, and both the theaters and TVs show each frame multiple times (2 in the case of a theater) or multiple times (like 3,which I know to be what the Kuro does), except for 60 Hz units - which use 3:2 pulldown, which is reputed not to work as well for 24p?

and if showing it twice works for theaters, why does it produce flicker for TVs?

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post #12353 of 15008 Old 09-20-2009, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by avnstf View Post

hm...so what to the blu-ray disks that show up on the player as 24p MEAN?

and what does the Kuro MEAN when it has the 72 Hz setting for these 24p movies?

thanks - Tony

Or do you just mean that the movie IS IN FACT taken at 24 fps, and both the theaters and TVs show each frame multiple times (2 in the case of a theater) or multiple times (like 3,which I know to be what the Kuro does), except for 60 Hz units - which use 3:2 pulldown, which is reputed not to work as well for 24p?

and if showing it twice works for theaters, why does it produce flicker for TVs?

Thats right, movies are filmed at 24fps. In the end you want your player to output 24fps and your TV to refresh in multiples of 24 to prevent 2:3 pulldown where your TV has to make measured calculations which can cause errors or jerky pans.

Far as I know there are no devices (theater included) that show movies in the native 24fps because frankly it would be a flicker-fest. You want 48hz at the bare minimum which is what most movie theaters are doing. FYI: I notice much more flicker at my local theater than my Kuro (72hz). Some people are more sensitive to flicker while others believe its part of the movie experience.


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post #12354 of 15008 Old 09-21-2009, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dago Red View Post

The Home button on the Kuro gets you into the Home Menu where you can select Setup. You also should map Exit, Tools, and Return to something on your Harmony. This should give you full functionality inside the menu system.

You should check the Kuro manual for any other buttons the Harmony is missing. My Harmony was missing the Home Media button so I had to learn it, but I think that was it.

DR

Thanks Dago that helped alot. The button codes were in the remote, but for some reason not actually mapped to the Harmony's buttons for use.
I appreciate all the help. That was a strange issue to have.

The TV looks even better now that I could set it up with a hybrid of the settings in the settings thread and the Cnet settings. I appreciate the help.
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post #12355 of 15008 Old 09-21-2009, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dools767 View Post

What about when televisions say that they are displaying 24 HZ aren't they playing back true 24P?

What TV have you ever seen that says it is displaying 24Hz? I don't recall ever seeing any TV technolgy refresh the screen that slowly - that doesn't mean there aren't any, it just means I don't recall ever seeing one or hearing of one.

DLPs with color wheels would have terrible problems with rainbow artifacts if they operated that slowly, LCDs (including panels and projectors) would have phenominal motion artifacts if they operated that slowly, plasmas would run very very hot and not last too long (or have terrible flicker problems) if they operated that slowly. A 3-chip DLP might be able to operate that slowly, but you'd have the same flicker problem movie theaters had that caused them to change the projectors to flash each frame 2 times (48 flashes per second instead of 24).

There is NOTHING GOOD about 24 frames per second. This is a very important concept that everyone should understand. 24 frames per second is not something to be aspired to - 24fps comes from trying to save money... period. Decades ago, 24fps was determined to be the slowest possible rate that theater audiences would tolerate. Film was expensive to shoot on, and even more expensive when thousands of prints had to be made for distribution to theaters. 25fps would be considerably more expensive. 23fps would be cheaper, but it would annoy audiences enough that it was determined to be false economy to use 23fps or slower. We are still stuck with 24fps even though new displays COULD show 60 unique frames per second (or more) which would improve motion quality dramatically. IMAX features (these run an hour or less and are NOT movies, but usually documentaries) run at higher speeds than movies and it is quite obvious the motion is far better than what you see in typical movies.

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post #12356 of 15008 Old 09-21-2009, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

There is NOTHING GOOD about 24 frames per second. This is a very important concept that everyone should understand. 24 frames per second is not something to be aspired to - 24fps comes from trying to save money... period. Decades ago, 24fps was determined to be the slowest possible rate that theater audiences would tolerate. Film was expensive to shoot on, and even more expensive when thousands of prints had to be made for distribution to theaters. 25fps would be considerably more expensive. 23fps would be cheaper, but it would annoy audiences enough that it was determined to be false economy to use 23fps or slower. We are still stuck with 24fps even though new displays COULD show 60 unique frames per second (or more) which would improve motion quality dramatically. IMAX features (these run an hour or less and are NOT movies, but usually documentaries) run at higher speeds than movies and it is quite obvious the motion is far better than what you see in typical movies.


Very interesting history for 24fps, thank you!
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post #12357 of 15008 Old 09-22-2009, 02:38 PM
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This was originally posted on the Blu Ray software sub forum about the Spears and Munsil software that comes with the OPPO BD83 player. Iit seems to also affect my Pioneer 5020. The first post is from the OP and then my response. I wonder if this is common with Pioneer plasmas in general?

Originally Posted by gerianne
This is a terrific product! Thanks so much.

I'm not sure if this question belongs here or if I should post it in one of the Pio Elite forums, but here goes...

I have a Pioneer Elite Pro-111FD (professionally calibrated) and a Samsung BDP-S350. On the clipping pattern, all the squares are solid in color and reducing the contrast does not seem to have an effect. (I've changed the sampling on my BDP without any effect.)

Also, on the Chroma Burst patterns, the last square in the lower right hand corner is black (blank?) except for top and bottom colored lines.

I'm wondering if there's something I'm doing wrong, or if the display/BDP needs to be set differently.

Thanks in advance, and thanks again for a great product!

Greg

(My response)

I have been able to figure out when this occurs with the chomo burst patterns as mentioned above. It only happens when I power up the Pioneer first, and then the OPPO. When doing it that way the last box will be black with only the red and blue line at top and bottom. However, when I turn the OPPO on first, and then the Pioneer, the pattern displays correctly. I changed HDMI cables and also switched ports, and it happened everytime when turning the Pio on first. I even switched blu ray players to double check, and the same results. I believe it must be some sort of handshake issue when turning the tv on first and then the other devices via HDMI. So now I turn on my cable box and OPPO first and then the Pioneer.
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post #12358 of 15008 Old 09-22-2009, 04:34 PM
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***Need Help / Advice***
Just got my new 5020 home and powered up. (Bought one of the last ones in the state of Virginia from Best Buy!) The colors are outstanding. HOWEVER, the picture looks out of focus - too soft. Is this normal? Does it need time to settle in? Or is this totally out of the norm. This is my first HD TV so I'm not exactly sure if this is standard or not. I do have it hooked up via HDMI to COX Hi Def. I don't have a blu ray player yet so can't test that. I hate to take it back because I researched long and hard and then frantically searched to find one of the few remaining new stock units. Had to drive 3 hours each way to get it too!
Thanks for your help-
WT
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post #12359 of 15008 Old 09-22-2009, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by dub43 View Post

***Need Help / Advice***
Just got my new 5020 home and powered up. (Bought one of the last ones in the state of Virginia from Best Buy!) The colors are outstanding. HOWEVER, the picture looks out of focus - too soft. Is this normal? Does it need time to settle in? Or is this totally out of the norm. This is my first HD TV so I'm not exactly sure if this is standard or not. I do have it hooked up via HDMI to COX Hi Def. I don't have a blu ray player yet so can't test that. I hate to take it back because I researched long and hard and then frantically searched to find one of the few remaining new stock units. Had to drive 3 hours each way to get it too!
Thanks for your help-
WT

Which A/V are you using? That is are you in optimum, sport, movie, etc. Movie by default is set with a sharpness around -12. The rest are zero to +2. It's the higher sharpness level that is probably doing it. It seems strange that a high sharpness level actually gives a worse picture, but in reality it makes the picture seem more out of "focus". Plus you are so used to your other tvs that have always had sharpness cranked too high.
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post #12360 of 15008 Old 09-22-2009, 04:52 PM
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Which A/V are you using? That is are you in optimum, sport, movie, etc. Movie by default is set with a sharpness around -12. The rest are zero to +2. It's the higher sharpness level that is probably doing it. It seems strange that a high sharpness level actually gives a worse picture, but in reality it makes the picture seem more out of "focus". Plus you are so used to your other tvs that have always had sharpness cranked too high.

I'm in Optimum. I will try a few others and see how that changes things.
Thanks for the quick response!
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