The Official Pioneer 9G non-Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 427 - AVS Forum
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Old 01-06-2010, 05:58 AM
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I own a Pioneer Pro 950HD which I brought just over two years ago for a little under 3K (Canadian) and am very happy with but I now have the opportunity to buy a new (last one in the our local store) Pioneer Pro 111FD for just over 3K (Canadian).

Are the improvements in the newer model (111FD) so much better than the pro-950 that it is worth the additional expense ... (ie a total of 6++ K within the last two years) If anyone has a few spare minutes please reply as I would truly value your opinion before it is too late and the 111FD is sold to someone else!

I am not so worried about the size of the screen more the quality of the picture, but I think that the quality of the picture would have to be significantly better than the Pro-950HD to warrant the additional expense
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Old 01-06-2010, 07:03 AM
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A 111 for 3k Canadian is a really good deal, I paid more than that for my 5020 a year and a half ago. These sets are really something special and leaps beyond your pre Kuro Pioneer.

Be a fan of displays, not companies or technologies!
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Old 01-06-2010, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAMAC View Post

Hey guys. I owned a 6020 when they first released but decided to sell it to my sister and hold off for awhile. Well, I'm ready to buy one again and found a smoking deal on a one year old 6020 (around 2k). I have three questions. Can I lay it down to transport it home, or does it have to stand upright? Is it OK if it gets cold (like 25 deg F) as long as I don't power it on until it warms up? Finally, how do I access the menu that shows the number of hours on the unit?

Thanks for the assistance!


I had to drive this thing home in 15 degree weather, and I was worried about that. But I covered the unit in blankets and had it tied down well in the back of my truck.

It turned out that the previous owner was a high-priced stripper/pro poker player (interesting combo). A guy that owned an electronics store gave her this TV (suger daddy?), and she only watched a couple movies a week on average (it wasn't even hooked up to a cable or Sat source). I thought that was an interesting story.

Anyway, this unit is now hanging on the wall in my basement being fed content from my HD DVR and my Mac Mini/Plex. Boy, does it have a beautiful picture. I sure missed it when I sold my old one to my sister. But I came out almost $2,000 ahead, so I call my one year Kuro hiatus a positive one.

GO COLTS!!!
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Old 01-06-2010, 12:28 PM
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ran into a 5020 HDMI/DVI EDID at work today, thought someone might be interested in seeing what is was decoded:

Quote:


Monitor
Model name............... PIONEER-TV
Manufacturer............. Pioneer
Plug and Play ID......... PIO00C3
Serial number............ n/a
Manufacture date......... 2008, ISO week 0
-------------------------
EDID revision............ 1.3
Input signal type........ Digital
Color bit depth.......... Undefined
Display type............. RGB color
Screen size.............. 1100 x 620 mm (49.7 in)
Power management......... Active off/sleep
Extension blocs.......... 1 (CEA-EXT)
-------------------------
DDC/CI................... n/a

Color characteristics
Default color space...... Non-sRGB
Display gamma............ 2.20
Red chromaticity......... Rx 0.683 - Ry 0.317
Green chromaticity....... Gx 0.313 - Gy 0.581
Blue chromaticity........ Bx 0.139 - By 0.050
White point (default).... Wx 0.289 - Wy 0.280
Additional descriptors... None

Timing characteristics
Horizontal scan range.... 15-69kHz
Vertical scan range...... 23-61Hz
Video bandwidth.......... 150MHz
CVT standard............. Not supported
GTF standard............. Not supported
Additional descriptors... None
Preferred timing......... Yes
Native/preferred timing.. 1920x1080p at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1920x1080" 148.500 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1089 1125 +hsync +vsync
Detailed timing #1....... 1920x1080i at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1920x1080" 74.250 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1094 1124 interlace +hsync +vsync

Standard timings supported
640 x 480p at 60Hz - IBM VGA
800 x 600p at 60Hz - VESA
1024 x 768p at 60Hz - VESA
1280 x 1024p at 60Hz - VESA STD

EIA/CEA-861 Information
Revision number.......... 3
DTV underscan............ Supported
Basic audio.............. Supported
YCbCr 4:4:4.............. Supported
YCbCr 4:2:2.............. Supported
Native formats........... 1
Detailed timing #1....... 720x480p at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "720x480" 27.000 720 736 798 858 480 489 495 525 -hsync -vsync
Detailed timing #2....... 1280x720p at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1280x720" 74.250 1280 1390 1430 1650 720 725 730 750 +hsync +vsync
Detailed timing #3....... 1440x480i at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1440x480" 27.000 1440 1478 1602 1716 480 488 494 524 interlace -hsync -vsync

CE video data (timings supported)
1920 x 1080i at 60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
1920 x 1080p at 60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1) [Native]
720 x 480p at 60Hz - EDTV (16:9, 32:27)
1280 x 720p at 60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
720 x 480p at 60Hz - EDTV (4:3, 8:9)
720 x 480i at 60Hz - Doublescan (16:9, 32:27)
720 x 480i at 60Hz - Doublescan (4:3, 8:9)
1920 x 1080p at 24Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
640 x 480p at 60Hz - Default (4:3, 1:1)
NB: NTSC refresh rate = (Hz*1000)/1001

CE audio data (formats supported)
LPCM 2-channel, 16/20/24 bit depths at 32/44/48 kHz

CE speaker allocation data
Channel configuration.... 2.0
Front left/right......... Yes
Front LFE................ No
Front center............. No
Rear left/right.......... No
Rear center.............. No
Front left/right center.. No
Rear left/right center... No
Rear LFE................. No

CE vendor specific data (VSDB)
IEEE registration number. 0x000C03
CEC physical address..... 0.1.0.0
Supports AI (ACP, ISRC).. Yes
Supports 48bpp........... No
Supports 36bpp........... Yes
Supports 30bpp........... Yes
Supports YCbCr 4:4:4..... Yes
Supports dual-link DVI... No
Maximum TMDS clock....... 225MHz
Video latency (p)........ 33ms
Audio latency (p)........ 33ms
Video latency (i)........ 67ms
Audio latency (i)........ 67ms

Report information
Date generated........... 1/6/2010
Software revision........ 2.30.0.790
Operating system......... 5.1.2600.2.Service Pack 2

Raw data
00,FF,FF,FF,FF,FF,FF,00,41,2F,C3,00,00,00,00,00,00,12,01,03, 80,6E,3E,78,2A,D7,B3,AE,51,50,94,23,
0C,4A,47,21,08,00,81,80,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01, 01,01,02,3A,80,18,71,38,2D,40,58,2C,
45,00,4E,6C,42,00,00,1E,01,1D,80,18,71,1C,16,20,58,2C,25,00, 4E,6C,42,00,00,9E,00,00,00,FD,00,17,
3D,0F,45,0F,00,0A,20,20,20,20,20,20,00,00,00,FC,00,50,49,4F, 4E,45,45,52,2D,54,56,0A,20,20,01,53,
02,03,26,F1,49,05,90,03,04,02,07,06,20,01,23,09,07,07,83,01, 00,00,6C,03,0C,00,10,00,B8,2D,C0,11,
11,22,22,E2,00,79,8C,0A,D0,8A,20,E0,2D,10,10,3E,96,00,4E,6C, 42,00,00,18,01,1D,00,72,51,D0,1E,20,
6E,28,55,00,4E,6C,42,00,00,1E,8C,0A,A0,14,51,F0,16,00,26,7C, 43,00,4E,6C,42,00,00,98,00,00,00,00,
00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00, 00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,ED


Go bolts
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Old 01-06-2010, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groves View Post

...the quality of the picture would have to be significantly better than the Pro-950HD to warrant the additional expense

I think you would easily see the much better black levels of the latest generation panel, and with that, the picture is so much better. If you can justify the expense, it would be a nice addition for you.
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Old 01-06-2010, 03:36 PM
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Another newbie here. I couldn't find another halfway relevant, or recent, forum so I'll throw my question out here.

I have a 141FD on hold for a reasonable price at a BB but they also have 151FD available (floor models w/some hrs on it; still more that a Pan 58V10). I am a prosumer photographer & would like the ability to pull images from my home server onto the display. After reviewing the 141 manual, even though it is tied to the network, it is not appparent that you can access a network server for images, etc. I know the 151 will do this through the Home Gallery (as will the V10) so I may swap panels. Am I misreading the 141 capabilities? Which is the better product overall (Yes, the 141 is a Signature panel with a fancy black box for the remote but will I, a confessed non-videophile notice the difference?)?
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by optika View Post

Another newbie here. I couldn't find another halfway relevant, or recent, forum so I'll throw my question out here.

These two threads are probably better for your purpose.

The Official Pioneer 9G Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread

Signature Elite 141 Owners Thread
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:45 AM
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I just fired up my pro 151 elite last week and am downloading

pioneer the kuro experience 08 disc. Should I burn and play on my tv to break in or just simple visual pleasure?
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Old 01-07-2010, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoro View Post

I just fired up my pro 151 elite last week and am downloading

pioneer the kuro experience 08 disc. Should I burn and play on my tv to break in or just simple visual pleasure?

I've been looking for the Kuro Experience Disk. Where are you downloading it from (PM me if you'd like).

TIA
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Old 01-07-2010, 10:53 AM
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htwaits-
Thanks for the direction to the other threads. I'm still figuring out navigation through the avsforum.
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Old 01-07-2010, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by optika View Post

htwaits-
Thanks for the direction to the other threads. I'm still figuring out navigation through the avsforum.

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Old 01-07-2010, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gordog View Post

I've been looking for the Kuro Experience Disk. Where are you downloading it from (PM me if you'd like).

TIA

I'll lol, for sure, it was a torrent,will pm you, but lol u have to tell me how to make best use of it. I guess i 'll have to split 13GB into two or 3?
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Old 01-08-2010, 09:19 PM
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Arrghhhh!

My friend came to my place and watched some Blu-Ray and HD-DVD movies in my 5020. When he tried The Dark Knight, he told me he didn't like the picture and that the Sony LCD with the 240Hz thing looked much better at the store.

Even though I have purchased the ControlCal profile, I can't calibrate my display since I can't get any meter (I'm down here in South America, can't rent and they are too expensive to buy). I found the other day the Eye One 2 and LT (but not the Pro) and I read those non-pro are not so good for plasmas (besides of the price tag). I tried to adjust with the D-Nice's settings and I think it didn't do a big, big difference.

A thing I noticed is that sometimes the picture gets a little grainy, but don't know if it comes with the movie or if it is some color saturation or something at the pixel level. I compared Transformers in both HD-DVD and Blu Ray version and I see the same graininess. So how to avoid it?

Would it be a real thing that the Sony LCD 240Hz refresh rate is close (in terms of PQ) to the 5020? Would my 5020 be that bad (out-of-calibration) to say so?

I would get the meter from the US in the future, but still have some priorities first. The meter I may only use once per year, but still I want to get the best possible PQ from my display anyway... maybe I can buy something, a not-so-expensive meter and then charge my friends for a non-pro grayscale calibration to recover some money (kiddin').
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Old 01-08-2010, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrinklefree View Post

Take it and run

picked up the formerly display model 5020 from bestbuy this afternoon...i ended up with it for about the price of a 40" lcd (well under $1K) and figured why not.

No dead pixels, no burn-in, but it was probably on for a year at bestbuy.

So, what are owners' thoughts on extended warranties (i have a warranty from pioneer until 1/8/11)? Should i connect controlcal and check the hours or live in ignoran bliss?

Marked improvement over the 8G kuro I have. Shame the tweaking options ar elimited.
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Old 01-09-2010, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

picked up the formerly display model 5020 from bestbuy this afternoon...i ended up with it for about the price of a 40" lcd (well under $1K) and figured why not.

No dead pixels, no burn-in, but it was probably on for a year at bestbuy.

So, what are owners' thoughts on extended warranties (i have a warranty from pioneer until 1/8/11)? Should i connect controlcal and check the hours or live in ignoran bliss?

Marked improvement over the 8G kuro I have. Shame the tweaking options ar elimited.

Nice buy. I'm normally against extended warranties but I would consider one if it was roughly 10% of the purchase price.

At bare minimum I would get controlcal and run the recommended offsets since 5020's usually ship on the warm side.
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Old 01-09-2010, 01:27 AM
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Yeah, but I would not pay much for a extended warranty on a set that cost under $1k. Don't forget they base not only their replacement costs on the selling price, but also the amounts they are willing to pay for a repair. So anything even near $1k in repair, is at the most only going to get you your original purchase price back. Anything like $300-$400 on a plan that only has to pay out a bit under $1k is not a great idea. And buying a extended plan that costs a lot, would be foolish.


And it can possibly be even worse if you get a Best Buy extended service plan. Because with Best Buys new extended warranty/service terms, that they can now pro rate the amount they are willing to pay out. And even worse, they are solely the one who determines how much it would be.

And for anyone who don't believe it, take a look.
As according to their new terms, they now say that will only give you "fair market value as determined by us" now.

http://www.geeksquad.com/gslibrary/s...20080914TC.pdf
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Old 01-09-2010, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omarcio View Post

Arrghhhh!

My friend came to my place and watched some Blu-Ray and HD-DVD movies in my 5020. When he tried The Dark Knight, he told me he didn't like the picture and that the Sony LCD with the 240Hz thing looked much better at the store.

Even though I have purchased the ControlCal profile, I can't calibrate my display since I can't get any meter (I'm down here in South America, can't rent and they are too expensive to buy). I found the other day the Eye One 2 and LT (but not the Pro) and I read those non-pro are not so good for plasmas (besides of the price tag). I tried to adjust with the D-Nice's settings and I think it didn't do a big, big difference.

A thing I noticed is that sometimes the picture gets a little grainy, but don't know if it comes with the movie or if it is some color saturation or something at the pixel level. I compared Transformers in both HD-DVD and Blu Ray version and I see the same graininess. So how to avoid it?

Would it be a real thing that the Sony LCD 240Hz refresh rate is close (in terms of PQ) to the 5020? Would my 5020 be that bad (out-of-calibration) to say so?

I would get the meter from the US in the future, but still have some priorities first. The meter I may only use once per year, but still I want to get the best possible PQ from my display anyway... maybe I can buy something, a not-so-expensive meter and then charge my friends for a non-pro grayscale calibration to recover some money (kiddin').

You're confusing 2 different things regarding PQ. The 5020 PQ advantages is based on getting an accurate picture. This is based on measurable characteristics such as black level and it's ability to reproduce what a content producer intended when they created a movie or other video.

PQ that looks good is based on many different subjective qualities and varies from person to person. If your LCD is doing frame interpolation for instance that may look impressive to your friend (depends on the type source content as well). "This is much more like adding a "special visual effect" to the video than it is adding Picture Quality. The 5020 will not produce that visual effect and for that matter no Kuro Plasma will.

Calibration will give you a more accurate picture which many of us consider 'better' but it will not produce an effect like Frame Interpolation.
You can get a little bit of that effect by putting the Pure Cinema Mode on 'Smooth' mode but it is a subtle effect not meant to be as strong as the LCD if you like that. Calibration may not impress your friend if that's what your goal is.

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Old 01-09-2010, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omarcio View Post

Arrghhhh!

My friend came to my place and watched some Blu-Ray and HD-DVD movies in my 5020. When he tried The Dark Knight, he told me he didn't like the picture and that the Sony LCD with the 240Hz thing looked much better at the store.

Even though I have purchased the ControlCal profile, I can't calibrate my display since I can't get any meter (I'm down here in South America, can't rent and they are too expensive to buy). I found the other day the Eye One 2 and LT (but not the Pro) and I read those non-pro are not so good for plasmas (besides of the price tag). I tried to adjust with the D-Nice's settings and I think it didn't do a big, big difference.

A thing I noticed is that sometimes the picture gets a little grainy, but don't know if it comes with the movie or if it is some color saturation or something at the pixel level. I compared Transformers in both HD-DVD and Blu Ray version and I see the same graininess. So how to avoid it?

Would it be a real thing that the Sony LCD 240Hz refresh rate is close (in terms of PQ) to the 5020? Would my 5020 be that bad (out-of-calibration) to say so?

I would get the meter from the US in the future, but still have some priorities first. The meter I may only use once per year, but still I want to get the best possible PQ from my display anyway... maybe I can buy something, a not-so-expensive meter and then charge my friends for a non-pro grayscale calibration to recover some money (kiddin').

I know exactly to what you are referring to with both of these two films on the 5020 when comparing them to when they are beiing displayed on the newer LCD sets with 240hz frame interpolation.

In a nutshell... your friend is mistaken.

The frame smoothing, interpolation features are changing the way the looks to the eye. This is not a desired trait for most people. He has become accostomed to the change and when he sees the film how it is meant to appear, it seems different to him and he is deciding that it's inferior.

It's not inferior. It's how the film is actually meant to look. Dark Knight is a dark, brooding film and is not supposed to look like it was shot with a cheap video camera on the set of a soap opera stage which is how interpolation makes Dark Knigt appear.

I owned a Samsung 8000 LCD and returned due to how it made films looks due to it's interpolation feature.

As for the graininess both films seems to have a grainy texture which I find that I like and is intended as well.
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Old 01-09-2010, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omarcio View Post

...Even though I have purchased the ControlCal profile, I can't calibrate my display since I can't get any meter....

Use the software and do the offsets provided by DNice on the first page of this thread. Also, buy the Spears and Munsil calibration disc, and fine tune your settings using that...a big step in the right direction! I also agree with the above...your friend is just wrong!
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Old 01-09-2010, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrinklefree View Post

Nice buy. I'm normally against extended warranties but I would consider one if it was roughly 10% of the purchase price.

At bare minimum I would get controlcal and run the recommended offsets since 5020's usually ship on the warm side.

just made my donation to controlcal to get into the service menu. how long does it take to get your activation code after you donate?
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Old 01-09-2010, 04:22 PM
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hi, i have a pioneer 6020, i recently hooked up an oppo bd. now when i switch back to watch regular tv (comcast 8300 box) i get frequent audio dropouts. the picture is fine but the audio cuts out. i have rebooted the cable box , unplugged cables, etc but i cant figure out for the life of me why this keeps happening. btw i have the cable box in hdmi 4 and the oppo in hdmi 5. im thinking my cable box is the culprit bit it worked fine until the addition of the oppo. prior to that i had a samsung dvd player and there were no issues. any thoughts or direction would be greatly appreciated.thanks.
herb
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Old 01-09-2010, 06:58 PM
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Thanks Dahlsim, brainwashed, Jim.
"I get the picture", now.

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Old 01-09-2010, 07:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

just made my donation to controlcal to get into the service menu. how long does it take to get your activation code after you donate?

I heard a couple of days he is usually pretty fast.
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Old 01-09-2010, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hwd25 View Post

hi, i have a pioneer 6020, i recently hooked up an oppo bd. now when i switch back to watch regular tv (comcast 8300 box) i get frequent audio dropouts. the picture is fine but the audio cuts out. i have rebooted the cable box , unplugged cables, etc but i cant figure out for the life of me why this keeps happening. btw i have the cable box in hdmi 4 and the oppo in hdmi 5. im thinking my cable box is the culprit bit it worked fine until the addition of the oppo. prior to that i had a samsung dvd player and there were no issues. any thoughts or direction would be greatly appreciated.thanks.
herb

Try connecting the OPPO to hdmi 4 and cable to hdmi 5. If the sound cuts out on the cable box again, then switch hdmi cables. if the problem still exists, it's probably the cable box.
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Old 01-09-2010, 07:27 PM
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Unsure how many have used it, but I just downloaded it and tried to connect via a usb to 232 connector and keep get a commporrt failure notice. anyone know if a usb to rs232 connector works with this program?

just figured out i had the wrong commport assigned.

now i am getting error "8020." any ideas?
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Old 01-09-2010, 09:59 PM
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Hi winston9332,

Just use the same ControlCAL Profile that you use to set the RGB High/Low Controls for Movie to check hours (I also emailed you those directions).

-Turbe

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Old 01-09-2010, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

Hi winston9332,

Just use the same ControlCAL Profile that you use to set the RGB High/Low Controls for Movie to check hours (I also emailed you those directions).

-Turbe

turbe,

you're a ninja. thanks for your speedy help.
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Old 01-09-2010, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrinklefree View Post

Nice buy. I'm normally against extended warranties but I would consider one if it was roughly 10% of the purchase price.

At bare minimum I would get controlcal and run the recommended offsets since 5020's usually ship on the warm side.

Unit has 6,700 hours - about what i reckoned with quick mental math.

i can get bestbuy's extended warranty for 10% on the nose.

when i consider the likelihood that i will likely have moved on to a 3d display in 12-18 months, i am thinking i pass.

controlcal is damn cool, bit overwhelming at first, but damn helpful. thanks turbe.
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Old 01-09-2010, 10:30 PM
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No problem.. just email me if you have any questions


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Old 01-10-2010, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

Unit has 6,700 hours - about what i reckoned with quick mental math.

i can get bestbuy's extended warranty for 10% on the nose.

when i consider the likelihood that i will likely have moved on to a 3d display in 12-18 months, i am thinking i pass.

controlcal is damn cool, bit overwhelming at first, but damn helpful. thanks turbe.

winston,

I wouldn't worry about the warranty either. No need to give BB
anymore of your money. It has 6000+ hours and didn't have any
problems and you have 30 days to return it it you encounter any
problems, 45 days if your a reward zone silver member.

You got a great deal.

Display: Pioneer PRO-151 60" Elite
Blu-ray player: OPPO BDP-93, Sony BDP-S1000ES
Processor: Onkyo PR-SC885
Amplifier: Emotiva IPS-1 150Wx7
Game Console: Xbox 360, Xbox One, PS4
Speakers: Mythos ST(Fronts), Mythos Ten(Center), Mythos One(Rears)
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