The Official Pioneer 9G non-Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 441 - AVS Forum
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Plasma Flat Panel Displays > The Official Pioneer 9G non-Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread
bodosom's Avatar bodosom 03:17 PM 03-23-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy13 View Post

can anyone help.

Please look back a few posts.

Eddy13's Avatar Eddy13 03:32 PM 03-23-2010
thanks Actually on the pioneer kuro you can set it to color space 4 for it can read rgb full if this is the case do i still leave limited on the ps3.. wouldnt it make sense to adjust to rgb full or no
bodosom's Avatar bodosom 09:41 PM 03-23-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy13 View Post

wouldnt it make sense to adjust to rgb full or no

Configuring NE Kuros (and Kuros in general) with the PS3 is well understood. You can either follow the recommended settings or not but if you want to understand the issues you need to do a bit of reading. I'd suggest you start with this five year old article and then read the video section of the PS3 FAQ.
Eddy13's Avatar Eddy13 11:46 AM 03-24-2010
Well of done the a and b comparison and rgb full for games with kuro set at auto works best for me and i see better shadow detail ect and for movies rgb limited works best with kuro at auto.. i also have the bd video output a ypb.. now i also have the 1080 p 24 on option and not auto as well
D-Nice's Avatar D-Nice 12:45 PM 03-24-2010
Thank you for the kind words. It was my pleasure. Enjoy your display.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucefan View Post

Going to answer my own question. Decided to bite the bullet and had D-Nice calibrate my set (incredibly nice and down to earth guy btw). I have one of the earlier sets from back in 2008 in case that makes a difference. For background on me...I'm not a videophile...I don't watch TV in a dark home theater only room in the basement...I do like the LCD look once in a while (gentle with the flaming) especially for sports...and I have no clue what I'm looking at on a calibration report. With that said...

Pre-anything
Out of the box I was thrilled with the 6020 (came from a Mits rear projection that wasn't calibrated) and actually loved Optimum mode. As time went on I started to appreciate Movie mode more and Optimum just started looking cartoon-like to me. Unfortunately Movie mode just had a yellow tint to it that I couldn't get past so I'd go back and forth with Standard and Performance.

Using DNice's offsets and ControlCal
After using the offsets, the whites in Movie mode became actually white and lost the yellow tint. From that point on I stuck with Movie mode...standard and performance now looked blueish (not sure if it was the offsets that did that or me appreciating Movie more and realizing those other modes were just "off"). Still though...during the day or if the lights were on a higher setting...movie mode still looked a little flat to me.

After DNice's calibration
D-Nice commented that Movie mode pre-calibration was pretty close to what it would be post and wasn't sure if I'd notice a difference. He also calibrated Peformance mode. After he was done (about 2 hours), I didn't really notice much of a difference with Movie mode but Peformance looked 10x better and was now a valid setting to use for me. Over the next few days of switching back and forth, I now use Peformance mode during the day and Movie at night. Now though, when watching movie mode at night with the lights dim or out (have bias lighting), the picture is absolutely stunning. There are definate differences pre/post calibration and now the colors look spot on and it just seems like there's more depth...hard to explain. Don't think it's in my head since the wife made a comment about it last night and she couldn't care less if we were watching a black and white tv.

So my recommendation if anyone is wondering if they should calibrate...I'd say yes it's well worth it. If not, then at the very very very very least get ControlCal and do the offsets (unless later production builds are different and the offsets wouldn't work? No clue about that...but for mine they worked beautifully)


4yanx's Avatar 4yanx 02:03 PM 03-24-2010
As posted earlier, I bought a 6020 last week. It is doing the break-in thing. This weekend, I plan to install the dedicated service line and I have some high-grade 20A outlets and a couple cords with 20A ends from an audio system. Will this TV handle 20amp service and, if so, also benefit from using a 20A cord?

Also, if someone can recommend a calibration expert for this particular set who services the Bay Area (California), I'd appreciate a heads up. Here, or via PM. Thanks.
D-Nice's Avatar D-Nice 02:27 PM 03-24-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4yanx View Post

As posted earlier, I bought a 6020 last week. It is doing the break-in thing. This weekend, I plan to install the dedicated service line and I have some high-grade 20A outlets and a couple cords with 20A ends from an audio system. Will this TV handle 20amp service and, if so, also benefit from using a 20A cord?

Also, if someone can recommend a calibration expert for this particular set who services the Bay Area (California), I'd appreciate a heads up. Here, or via PM. Thanks.

I will be in the Bay area 4/15 - 4/19. If you would like me to calibrate your display, email me by clicking on "Touring Calibrator" in my signature
bill288's Avatar bill288 03:48 PM 03-24-2010
Had my 500m calibrated this past sunday by D-Nice, it looked really good before, but its had to believe there was room for improvement. After D-Nice was done it looked even better, i think i fell in love with the isf-day.
Thanks D-Nice
bill288's Avatar bill288 04:01 PM 03-24-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4yanx View Post

As posted earlier, I bought a 6020 last week. It is doing the break-in thing. This weekend, I plan to install the dedicated service line and I have some high-grade 20A outlets and a couple cords with 20A ends from an audio system. Will this TV handle 20amp service and, if so, also benefit from using a 20A cord?

Also, if someone can recommend a calibration expert for this particular set who services the Bay Area (California), I'd appreciate a heads up. Here, or via PM. Thanks.

Your equipment is protected by your circiut size. a 20 is no different than a 15, other than you put can more on a 20. just remember a breaker is required to trip at 80% load (20 amp @ 16: 15 amp @ 12) so stay under if your close run another circuit. but try and keep them on the same phase leg since your equipment is interconnected less chance over voltage. just remember a breaker is there to protect not let it burn up before it trips. hope this helps
wrinklefree's Avatar wrinklefree 04:37 PM 03-24-2010
I spent the last few days playing around with some of the RS232 commands listed in the service manual. Anyone with a straight through serial cable and hyperterminal can use them. Disclosure: Please don't play around with these commands unless you know exactly what you're doing, especially those which are entered in the SM.

Some I found interesting include the different picture modes shown below which actually CAN be selected in and outside of the SM, but of course none of the changes stick once the panel is turned off. For instance open a hyperterminal session and type: pavs06 and the tv switches to Pure mode. Alternatively pavs08 changes to a bright ISFday. Interestingly if you hit display on the remote it still shows "Movie" but you can actually go into the settings and alter this quasi ISF-day PQ setting. Of course turning the TV off and back on reverts to settings stored in NVram.





BTW none of this information is new, as D-nice played with these settings last year. Nevertheless I found a few interesting tidbits about what could potentially make the NE different then the Elite, and here's what I found.

1. The panels are virtually identical, as just about all of the assembly's (main, x, y, sensor) share the exact same part numbers.

2. Typically electronic devices are set for a model and region when it leaves the plant, usually somewhere in the service menu that determines which features to activate, such as PAL mode. Issuing the QSE command shoots off this information in cryptic code but there's nowhere in the SM that tells you how to set the model and region, for obvious reasons. There are some values in the SM that the manual describes as "reserved" with a cryptic outputs of "****". Not sure if these values are being hidden purposely, or I'm barking up the wrong tree.

3. There's an adjustable identification resistor on the the X drv assy that identifies the model to the sensor assy but it's unclear if the distinction is 50 vs 60 inch or NE vs elite. The part number of the x assy is: AWV2546 which pioneer parts says works for both the 5020FD and Pro-111. Again I could be barking up the wrong tree. The ID resistor has to match the software build of the unit or else it will throw an error code. Even though the FW updates are technically the same file, that doesn't mean both units extract the same pieces from it during the update. The SM info page lists the software version. It'd be interesting to know if the builds are the same.

4. Serial numbers can be manually entered in the SM. Perhaps changing the SN an elite range might do something? hmmm


Besides that the manual states there's 4 white balance tables within the display adjustable by switching whats called the raster mask. a 60hz, 50hz and 72hz and 75hz. Go figure.


Boy I wish I had a cracked 5020FD to play with.
hodges69's Avatar hodges69 05:16 PM 03-24-2010
recommendations anyone? Just had my 5020 FS delivered from best buy....
looks fantastic BTW.....however,best buy uses stickers on the bezel(2,one on the bottom left...other on the bottom right)I am having a devil of a time getting the stickum off the bezel...I used alcohol and it helped..but did not do a thorough job...Not wanting to damage the bezel with goo-gone or something like that...is there any cleaning product you can recommend to me?
Thanks
hhaller's Avatar hhaller 07:37 PM 03-24-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrinklefree View Post

I spent the last few days playing around with some of the RS232 commands listed in the service manual. Anyone with a straight through serial cable and hyperterminal can use them. Disclosure: Please don't play around with these commands unless you know exactly what you're doing, especially those which are entered in the SM.

Some I found interesting include the different picture modes shown below which actually CAN be selected in and outside of the SM, but of course none of the changes stick once the panel is turned off. For instance open a hyperterminal session and type: pavs06 and the tv switches to Pure mode. Alternatively pavs08 changes to a bright ISFday. Interestingly if you hit display on the remote it still shows "Movie" but you can actually go into the settings and alter this quasi ISF-day PQ setting. Of course turning the TV off and back on reverts to settings stored in NVram.





BTW none of this information is new, as D-nice played with these settings last year. Nevertheless I found a few interesting tidbits about what could potentially make the NE different then the Elite, and here's what I found.

1. The panels are virtually identical, as just about all of the assembly's (main, x, y, sensor) share the exact same part numbers.

2. Typically electronic devices are set for a model and region when it leaves the plant, usually somewhere in the service menu that determines which features to activate, such as PAL mode. Issuing the QSE command shoots off this information in cryptic code but there's nowhere in the SM that tells you how to set the model and region, for obvious reasons. There are some values in the SM that the manual describes as "reserved" with a cryptic outputs of "****". Not sure if these values are being hidden purposely, or I'm barking up the wrong tree.

3. There's an adjustable identification resistor on the the X drv assy that identifies the model to the sensor assy but it's unclear if the distinction is 50 vs 60 inch or NE vs elite. The part number of the x assy is: AWV2546 which pioneer parts says works for both the 5020FD and Pro-111. Again I could be barking up the wrong tree. The ID resistor has to match the software build of the unit or else it will throw an error code. Even though the FW updates are technically the same file, that doesn't mean both units extract the same pieces from it during the update. The SM info page lists the software version. It'd be interesting to know if the builds are the same.

4. Serial numbers can be manually entered in the SM. Perhaps changing the SN an elite range might do something? hmmm


Besides that the manual states there's 4 white balance tables within the display adjustable by switching whats called the raster mask. a 60hz, 50hz and 72hz and 75hz. Go figure.


Boy I wish I had a cracked 5020FD to play with.

It's all Greek to me, but I'm seriously impressed with the amount of time and effort you guys put into solving the mystery of the 9g Kuro. It's wonderful to think that there could be even more accomplished with these displays as long as people keep tinkering.
D-Nice's Avatar D-Nice 07:52 PM 03-24-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by bill288 View Post

Had my 500m calibrated this past sunday by D-Nice, it looked really good before, but its had to believe there was room for improvement. After D-Nice was done it looked even better, i think i fell in love with the isf-day.
Thanks D-Nice

You're welcome
TheFactor's Avatar TheFactor 07:59 PM 03-24-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

You're welcome

So when are you going to be in Oregon ?
smeg36's Avatar smeg36 06:45 AM 03-25-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by hodges69 View Post

recommendations anyone? Just had my 5020 FS delivered from best buy....
looks fantastic BTW.....however,best buy uses stickers on the bezel(2,one on the bottom left...other on the bottom right)I am having a devil of a time getting the stickum off the bezel...I used alcohol and it helped..but did not do a thorough job...Not wanting to damage the bezel with goo-gone or something like that...is there any cleaning product you can recommend to me?
Thanks

Had the same thing on my display 5020. I used a small drop of Oops from goo gone on a paper towel, then rubbed the residue left. It took it right off. You have to be very careful though, it could also remove the paint if you use too much or rub too hard.
Sepulture's Avatar Sepulture 07:39 AM 03-25-2010
I envy you guys who have the opportunity to get hold of D-Nice for calibration.

D-Nice, any luck you would be venturing out of the US, short of a sponsored 1st class flight?
TheFactor's Avatar TheFactor 06:19 PM 03-25-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFactor View Post

So when are you going to be in Oregon ?

Bump For D-Nice
tony9's Avatar tony9 07:16 PM 03-25-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by smeg36 View Post

Had the same thing on my display 5020. I used a small drop of Oops from goo gone on a paper towel, then rubbed the residue left. It took it right off. You have to be very careful though, it could also remove the paint if you use too much or rub too hard.


Don't use (rub) a paper towel on the shinny black plastic bezel - there is a very good chance you'll leave swirl marks from the rubbing.

a 'lil WD40 on a cotton cloth (towel) would be better first, the WD40 will help dissolve the gummy glue of the decal. Then use the towel w a 'lil bit of water dampness to wipe away the residue of the WD40. The plastic bezel isn't painted. This "chore" may take you longer than 15 minutes, maybe not, be careful. YES - the petroleum product will help dissolve the glue on the BEZEL ONLY - I've done it many times on glass/plastic etc.

DON'T USE A PAPER TOWEL.

turbe's Avatar turbe 07:18 PM 03-25-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony9 View Post


a 'lil WD40

LOL ?
D-Nice's Avatar D-Nice 08:17 PM 03-25-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFactor View Post

Bump For D-Nice

When I have 7 additional people sign up for a tour (it doesn't matter what type of display they have)
hodges69's Avatar hodges69 08:54 PM 03-25-2010
smeg36 and tony9...
thanks for your replies....this crap is really stuck on the bezel....I will be extremely careful with whatever method I chose..
again...my thanks
htwaits's Avatar htwaits 12:53 AM 03-26-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by bill288 View Post

Had my 500m calibrated this past sunday by D-Nice ...

Thanks for your calibration report. I've included it in the flat panel (Post#2) list that's linked at the bottom of my post.
TheFactor's Avatar TheFactor 06:59 AM 03-26-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

When I have 7 additional people sign up for a tour (it doesn't matter what type of display they have)

Thank you for the reply and that for sure makes sense
Dahlsim's Avatar Dahlsim 01:45 PM 03-26-2010
Nice job on the Brain Dump wrinklefree! Good thing you've got some brain to spare.

It's been posted before that the Elite Adjustment Menus are embedded snugly in the 9G Non-Elite Firmware Menus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DOMAIN64
Right, I understand that but he said he "knows now" why they locked it. There must be something interesting lurking in there that he didnt originally realize. Paul

  • RGB Gamma
  • Color point modification (RGB only)
  • Colorspace selection
  • A/V modes ISF Day/Night/Auto, Pure, User
  • Color temps High, Mid-High, Mid, Mid-Low, Low
  • Brightness limitation

are all listed in the SM. The trick is getting them to stay active after you exit the SM. JimP is correct as you can REALLY screw things up in the SM....especially this one.

The issue has always been how to unlock/save them but it's great that you have confirmed at least the menu choices are actually functional inside and outside the service menu. Not sure how much you will continue to experiment or how much turbe via ControlCal could assist in finding a way to SAVE the selections you verified as working but it sounds like it could be feasible to produce quite the final upgrade patch.

With Pure Mode and ISF Day enabled that would pretty much complete his software's mastery of the entire 9G Kuro Line. Would be a nice end for part of what looks like it will be Pioneer's last line of great hdtvs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrinklefree View Post

I spent the last few days playing around with some of the RS232 commands listed in the service manual. Anyone with a straight through serial cable and hyperterminal can use them. Disclosure: Please don't play around with these commands unless you know exactly what you're doing, especially those which are entered in the SM.

Some I found interesting include the different picture modes shown below which actually CAN be selected in and outside of the SM, but of course none of the changes stick once the panel is turned off. For instance open a hyperterminal session and type: pavs06 and the tv switches to Pure mode. Alternatively pavs08 changes to a bright ISFday. Interestingly if you hit display on the remote it still shows "Movie" but you can actually go into the settings and alter this quasi ISF-day PQ setting. Of course turning the TV off and back on reverts to settings stored in NVram.





BTW none of this information is new, as D-nice played with these settings last year. Nevertheless I found a few interesting tidbits about what could potentially make the NE different then the Elite, and here's what I found.

1. The panels are virtually identical, as just about all of the assembly's (main, x, y, sensor) share the exact same part numbers.

2. Typically electronic devices are set for a model and region when it leaves the plant, usually somewhere in the service menu that determines which features to activate, such as PAL mode. Issuing the QSE command shoots off this information in cryptic code but there's nowhere in the SM that tells you how to set the model and region, for obvious reasons. There are some values in the SM that the manual describes as "reserved" with a cryptic outputs of "****". Not sure if these values are being hidden purposely, or I'm barking up the wrong tree.

3. There's an adjustable identification resistor on the the X drv assy that identifies the model to the sensor assy but it's unclear if the distinction is 50 vs 60 inch or NE vs elite. The part number of the x assy is: AWV2546 which pioneer parts says works for both the 5020FD and Pro-111. Again I could be barking up the wrong tree. The ID resistor has to match the software build of the unit or else it will throw an error code. Even though the FW updates are technically the same file, that doesn't mean both units extract the same pieces from it during the update. The SM info page lists the software version. It'd be interesting to know if the builds are the same.

4. Serial numbers can be manually entered in the SM. Perhaps changing the SN an elite range might do something? hmmm


Besides that the manual states there's 4 white balance tables within the display adjustable by switching whats called the raster mask. a 60hz, 50hz and 72hz and 75hz. Go figure.


Boy I wish I had a cracked 5020FD to play with.


Dominus's Avatar Dominus 04:27 PM 03-26-2010
SO EXCITED

I went into my local BB this evening and sitting in the middle of the floor in the Magnolia section was a brand new, boxed Kuro 6020FD with a clearance tag on it.

I have been in the market for a new HDTV for a few years now and as we all know, nothing touches these panels. Should I pull the trigger? I wanted a new entertainment center for this bad boy but the interior designer is coming tomorrow to rid me of this gargantuan 4:3 entertainment center etc so it will be a few months before I can set it up.

Buy or wait? The price, well, just under 4.

Cheers!
ryanhugh's Avatar ryanhugh 06:06 PM 03-26-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominus View Post

SO EXCITED

I went into my local BB this evening and sitting in the middle of the floor in the Magnolia section was a brand new, boxed Kuro 6020FD with a clearance tag on it.

I have been in the market for a new HDTV for a few years now and as we all know, nothing touches these panels. Should I pull the trigger? I wanted a new entertainment center for this bad boy but the interior designer is coming tomorrow to rid me of this gargantuan 4:3 entertainment center etc so it will be a few months before I can set it up.

Buy or wait? The price, well, just under 4.

Cheers!

the 6020FD is an amazing set! Did you try to talk them down at all? I got mine NIB for under 3 just a month and a half ago. I'd go in there and make them an offer....
zoro's Avatar zoro 06:21 PM 03-26-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanhugh View Post

the 6020FD is an amazing set! Did you try to talk them down at all? I got mine NIB for under 3 just a month and a half ago. I'd go in there and make them an offer....

i got mine 151 pro for under 3.5 too, so tell me that.
NikoDM's Avatar NikoDM 10:43 AM 03-27-2010
Ok, decided to finally go for it. After having a couple of offers and a thought about the panny VT25 I found a great offer on a LX5090H (sorry guys, not sure what US model it is)

It's around 4 months old and it has 400 hours on it. Immaculate state and recieved an ISFccc calibration just about a month ago (not that it'll do al that much for me but still...) Paid 2200$ for it. Going to pick it up in 2 weeks since I'm first going on a skitrip.
TheFactor's Avatar TheFactor 11:01 AM 03-27-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominus View Post

SO EXCITED

I went into my local BB this evening and sitting in the middle of the floor in the Magnolia section was a brand new, boxed Kuro 6020FD with a clearance tag on it.

I have been in the market for a new HDTV for a few years now and as we all know, nothing touches these panels. Should I pull the trigger? I wanted a new entertainment center for this bad boy but the interior designer is coming tomorrow to rid me of this gargantuan 4:3 entertainment center etc so it will be a few months before I can set it up.

Buy or wait? The price, well, just under 4.

Cheers!

Buy Buy Buy !!!! I love my 6020 its the best display I ever had The PQ and blacks are amazing and with only 150 hours logged the pq is getting even better and I havent even got calibrated yet.
Tas71's Avatar Tas71 09:26 PM 03-27-2010
So i'm about to bite the bullet on the 6020 and i'm hearing people getting it for 3ish. my guy wants 3700. do i or don't i for that price. is it too much? what the hell do i do?

And whats the overall feeling other than the picture being great. Any buzzing from newer owners? I think thats what i'm most scared of. Am i just being a biatch!!!! And also big 700 dollar difference from another forum member cause i really need to buy a couple of other gear. AAAARRRRGGGGGGG!!!!!

sorry about my tirade.

Tas
Tags: Pioneer , Pioneer Pdp 5020fd 50 Inch 1080p Kuro Plasma Hdtv , Pioneer Pdp 6020fd 60 Inch Class Kuro Plasma Hdtv
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