The Official Pioneer 9G non-Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 62 - AVS Forum
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post #1831 of 15008 Old 07-06-2008, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by gregdpw View Post

amazon is looking nice today! but their customer service is all over the place!!

Yes, they had a really good price late last night. It actually dropped a further $50 when I had it my cart and was getting ready to checkout. The price, w/ free "white glove" delivery, beat the couple of forum vendor prices I had gotten when I take into account the 3% reward I get from using my Amazon card. If anyone bought from Amazon previous to this you should contact them to make use of their 30 day price guarantee.

Anyway, order now placed, and I hope I don't have to make use of their return policy. A relatively close to perfect set on the first try would be wonderful. Although last year I got a bad S3 Tivo from them and had no problem using a couple of simple emails to get it swapped out for a replacement. We'll see...
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post #1832 of 15008 Old 07-06-2008, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DOMAIN64 View Post

Home theatre mag August had a small preview and it claimed it would have blacker blacks.

Paul

EDIT: Pioneer said the elite kuros not the signature "feature blacks that are significantly lower than even the current models industry leading standards"

Who knows what that really means.

Paul

I think this rumor of the Signature series having blacker blacks than the Elite's (or, non-Elites, for that matter) got started from a rather poorly written Pioneer press release...the relevant part of which you've posted here. One has to read it very carefully to see that, as you've pointed out, that Pioneer is talking about the Kuro lineup as a whole.

If anyone would know the scoop here on the forums, it would be D-Nice. He's tried a few times now to squelch this rumor. It's too bad Pioneer's marketing department didn't do a better job with their press release and help D out!
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post #1833 of 15008 Old 07-06-2008, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by andy79 View Post

thanks. turning film mode off has improved (or perhaps eliminated) the stutter.

i'm getting frustrated with the absence of a one-size-fits-all approach to viewing. what is the cost of turning film mode off, i.e., what's it supposed to be doing?

I'd love to know the answer as well. The manual states that the modes "automatically detect and analyzes" film based source (24 frames per sec). Not really sure what that means to me when watching HD broadcast (I have fios), or watching BD.
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post #1834 of 15008 Old 07-06-2008, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jr96aolcom View Post

Hello, This is my first time on AVS so I hope I am following the rules. I just got my new Elite PRO 151 and less than 2 weeks of ownership there is a big dead spot approx 4" by 14" in the left side of the screen. Tweeter is replacing when they can get one but this is annoying as well as troublesome. Any other horror stories out there?

With Tweeter replacing your defective set you don't have a horror story. Now if Tweeter refused, then you might have a horror story.

I've read all the 8G and 9G posts, and I don't remember anything like a patch of dead pixels in a 4" by 14" area. That's amazing, but not a horror.

Waiting for your replacement set will feel like a horror.

Good luck.

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post #1835 of 15008 Old 07-06-2008, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ephemere View Post

D-Nice, thanks for your response. Your respose interests me because you actually tested and measured a 6020. I'd like to test my display the same way you tested yours for black level. Would you be willing to PM me with the equipment you used? I assume a light meter capable of measuring down to 0.001Fl. Also, how far away was the meter from the screen when you took the measurement?

I think I need to get an objective handle on this before I call Invision/Pioneer about the buzzing, because it could be related to the seemingly high level of light illuminating from the screen. (It is clearly glowing even before it is totally dark outside, and I have about 16' x 10' of west-facing windows next to the plasma set.) There may be defect in the drive unit that is causing both the buzzing and the poor black level. My wife said that the buzzing is bad enough that she doesn't want to watch TV in the main viewing seat that is 15' away directly in front of the screen. (The buzzing is noticeably less severe off-center.)

Same here man... Same here. 21' on buzz... I have a 21x18 ft. room with 12' of east-facing windows.

What is dead can never die. Long live my 151!
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post #1836 of 15008 Old 07-06-2008, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by pab1219 View Post

i went to mt bestbuy with a forum dealer price in hand THEY MATCH IT

What did you have in hand? An email? I'm curious as to what constitutes a legitimate price quote to take to BB when the forum sponsors are providing PM or email quotes. I'm planning on attempting to negotiate price with BB but I'm not quite sure how they're going to take anything seriously that's substantially below MSRP.
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post #1837 of 15008 Old 07-06-2008, 07:20 PM
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The Best Buy near me was sticking by their PM policy to the letter and would only match local B&M. So of course he calls up the store tells them he's from BB and wants to know their price for a PM. No surprise they tell him MSRP so he responds to me "oh there selling it for the same price." Well of course they are if you call and tell them you're the competition and want to take a sale away.

The only reason I attempted it w/ BB was for the 30day insurance policy.
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post #1838 of 15008 Old 07-06-2008, 07:52 PM
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amazon has a 30 day policy too

My Basement Home Theater

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post #1839 of 15008 Old 07-06-2008, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by gregdpw View Post

amazon has a 30 day policy too

True, and they just dropped their price on the 6020fd $600 this weekend.

However I already have a 6020 with a buzz, and was trying to buy a 151fd from BB which Amazon doesn't currently have.
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post #1840 of 15008 Old 07-06-2008, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregdpw View Post

amazon has a 30 day policy too

I think the 30 day return is only for items sold by Amazon. The 6020 is currently sold and shipped by 6ave and the return policy will be that of 6ave, according to their stated return policy for Merchants. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but that is how it is stated under the return policy statement.

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post #1841 of 15008 Old 07-06-2008, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by coltsfreak18 View Post

Same here man... Same here. 21' on buzz... I have a 21x18 ft. room with 12' of east-facing windows.

So, what are you going to do about it? I haven't decided what I'm going to do yet. I got my wonky 6020 on Thursday, purchased from a forum sponsor (Invision), so I haven't lived with it for that long, yet. And I haven't yet called Invision. Too bad I didn't wait a few more days for Amazon -- same price, but with a real return policy. I'm sure I could hear this buzz at 30' if my room went back that far.
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post #1842 of 15008 Old 07-06-2008, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by billybob0405 View Post

I think the 30 day return is only for items sold by Amazon. The 6020 is currently sold and shipped by 6ave and the return policy will be that of 6ave, according to their stated return policy for Merchants. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but that is how it is stated under the return policy statement.

You're right, though Amazon does have it for sale themselves if you click on other merchants, they just aren't the cheapest.
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post #1843 of 15008 Old 07-06-2008, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by LBDiver View Post

You're right, though Amazon does have it for sale themselves if you click on other merchants, they just aren't the cheapest.

I don't see an "other merchants" link, and the page says, "Ships from and sold by Amazon.com."

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post #1844 of 15008 Old 07-06-2008, 11:28 PM
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FWIW, I prefer to use Color at +15 when watching in movie mode. I've noticed that, when watching in movie mode using D Nice's settings, clear blue skies always show up as a light grey. This changes the scenery in a movie quite a bit; a bright blue sky versus a pukish overcast has a lot to do with the mood of the scene. At color -5, all you see is grey skies; color +15, you will see (as you do on every other setting) an actual blue sky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Pioneer 5020FD/6020FD Reference Settings

Picture:
AV Selection: Movie
Contrast: 38
Brightness: -1
Color: -5
Tint: 0
Sharpness: -15

Pure Cinema

Film Mode: Advance
Text Optimization: Off



Power Save Mode: Off

Orbiter: Mode 1 (All screen size modes except Dot-by-Dot)
Mode 2 (Dot-by-Dot screen size mode ONLY)

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post #1845 of 15008 Old 07-06-2008, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thommy View Post

I don't see an "other merchants" link, and the page says, "Ships from and sold by Amazon.com."

The 6020 is sold by 6ave based on the primary screen. If you select "x new and used", you will see other sellers, including amazon for a slightly higher price. The 5020 primary screen is sold by amazon.

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post #1846 of 15008 Old 07-07-2008, 12:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy79 View Post

FWIW, I prefer to use Color at +15 when watching in movie mode. I've noticed that, when watching in movie mode using D Nice's settings, clear blue skies always show up as a light grey. This changes the scenery in a movie quite a bit; a bright blue sky versus a pukish overcast has a lot to do with the mood of the scene. At color -5, all you see is grey skies; color +15, you will see (as you do on every other setting) an actual blue sky.

That seems like a lot of difference. Is this with satellite, cable(some or all channels?), dvd player or just everything? If its with a player, you might want to doublecheck any video controls to be sure that the color saturation didn't somehow get turned down.

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post #1847 of 15008 Old 07-07-2008, 02:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billybob0405 View Post

I think the 30 day return is only for items sold by Amazon. The 6020 is currently sold and shipped by 6ave and the return policy will be that of 6ave, according to their stated return policy for Merchants. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but that is how it is stated under the return policy statement.

You're correct. If you read the Amazon return policy, it states that for items sold by third party retailers (through the Amazon marketplace) that the policy will be that of the third party retailer exclusively. 6ave doesn't accept returns (aside from blatantly defective sets). Amazon's own price on the 6020 is still a couple hundred higher, but the 6ave price is fairly competitive.

I was wondering about the margin on the 5020/6020. A quick google of both model types and I see prices nearly $300 less than the forum sponsors' pricing at two different locations. It surprises me to see prices that low, but I can't imagine they're giving them away or losing money. It's unbelievable what places like BB must be making on each set they sell.
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post #1848 of 15008 Old 07-07-2008, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy79 View Post

FWIW, I prefer to use Color at +15 when watching in movie mode. I've noticed that, when watching in movie mode using D Nice's settings, clear blue skies always show up as a light grey. This changes the scenery in a movie quite a bit; a bright blue sky versus a pukish overcast has a lot to do with the mood of the scene. At color -5, all you see is grey skies; color +15, you will see (as you do on every other setting) an actual blue sky.

Personally, I would stick with D-Nice's settings.
At +15 the color is probably off. meaning, The sky's may look more blue, but in actuality you are adding artificial color.
When I used the color calibration test pattern on the Digital video essentials BDROM with the color endoers included with the disk, D-Nice's settings were pretty much right on.
Some sets may vary a litttle by an increment or two in the +/- but I would doubt that +15 could be anywhere near accurate. But it still may look really good.
Adding that extra color may make sky's look more blue, but in other scenes it may not be a positve effect.
I preferr getting the picture as close to standard as possible. Some scenes may not "POP" out at you like it does with Dynamic or "torch" modes, but they are accurate and that is how the scene was intended to be.
But really, in the end what matters is that YOU like it. If it looks better to you and thats the way you like it then there is nothing wrong with that.
whatever makes you enjoy the set more is what matters.

wHy So SeRiOus???



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post #1849 of 15008 Old 07-07-2008, 06:29 AM
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I purchased my 5020 from Amazon and I'm waiting for it to arrive (hopefully soon!). I talked to their customer service before I took the plunge and they were very helpful, which gave me the confidence I needed to buy from them. The price was cheaper than the forum sponsors (sorry guys!) and their return policy is reasonable - it's not a "satisfaction guarantee" but if it arrives damaged or defective then I can refuse delivery, or they will send someone out to pick it up again. Worst case scenario, I can just return it for no specific reason, and they will charge return shipping (which they said would be about $100-$400).

Considering that some other options I was considering had no return policy at all, and B&M costs $100's extra in tax, I figured I'd be fine with Amazon, even if there were issues with the set.

But yeah, be careful that you're buying from Amazon especially on the 6020, since they have affiliates that sell through the site and their return policies are almost certainly not as good.
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post #1850 of 15008 Old 07-07-2008, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

Personally, I would stick with D-Nice's settings.
At +15 the color is probably off. meaning, The sky's may look more blue, but in actuality you are adding artificial color.
When I used the color calibration test pattern on the Digital video essentials BDROM with the color endoers included with the disk, D-Nice's settings were pretty much right on.
Some sets may vary a litttle by an increment or two in the +/- but I would doubt that +15 could be anywhere near accurate. But it still may look really good.
Adding that extra color may make sky's look more blue, but in other scenes it may not be a positve effect.
I preferr getting the picture as close to standard as possible. Some scenes may not "POP" out at you like it does with Dynamic or "torch" modes, but they are accurate and that is how the scene was intended to be.
But really, in the end what matters is that YOU like it. If it looks better to you and thats the way you like it then there is nothing wrong with that.
whatever makes you enjoy the set more is what matters.

I used the DVE BDROM using "Movie" on the 6020 and had to go up to color +3 to get the green and red patterns (using the filters) to match. The blue pattern seemed pretty insensitive. At -5 you could clearly see the darker green and red on a green or red background.

Now the BD player (in my case the Denon DVD-3800BDCI) might be imparting an influence, but accross the board on all inputs I prefer the color at +3 to -5.

This is entirely personal opinion and I am not saying D-Nice is incorrect in his settings, this is just my observation based upon my tests.

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post #1851 of 15008 Old 07-07-2008, 08:04 AM
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Still -5 to +3 is only 8 notches of difference. -5 to +15 is 20 notches of difference. That's quite a big jump. IMO, most of the time I see skies in real life, they are not necessarily blue. If that's the sole color you are basing the adjustment over, you might want to rethink it. All other colors are probably going to be way overblown because of that.

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post #1852 of 15008 Old 07-07-2008, 09:46 AM
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I am using D-Nice's settings on my 5020watched LOTR special extended edition (DVD-WS) using Philips DVP 5982 which I set to output at 480p. Only Cinema mode gave me almost full screen except two small black bars at the top and bottom. How do I get rid off these bars and get full picture?
Anyway just won an auction on ebay for a toshiba HD-A30. Will compare the picture once get the player.
BTW, using 1080p upconversion on Philips shows widescreen with larger black bars.
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post #1853 of 15008 Old 07-07-2008, 10:32 AM
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this is with everything, i.e., DVD or HD-TV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

That seems like a lot of difference. Is this with satellite, cable(some or all channels?), dvd player or just everything? If its with a player, you might want to doublecheck any video controls to be sure that the color saturation didn't somehow get turned down.

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post #1854 of 15008 Old 07-07-2008, 10:34 AM
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well, the problem is, i'm often watching a scene and I just can't believe that this is how the filmmaker intended it to be viewed. it's almost never the case that the sky looks blue using movie mode. yet, there are movie scenes that clearly are supposed to be taking place during the day in a joyful setting, and the pukish overcast can't be the intention. perhaps i'll try to shoot a couple pics tonight.

also, the fact that the sky looks blue on every single other setting makes me think that blue is correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

Personally, I would stick with D-Nice's settings.
At +15 the color is probably off. meaning, The sky's may look more blue, but in actuality you are adding artificial color.
When I used the color calibration test pattern on the Digital video essentials BDROM with the color endoers included with the disk, D-Nice's settings were pretty much right on.
Some sets may vary a litttle by an increment or two in the +/- but I would doubt that +15 could be anywhere near accurate. But it still may look really good.
Adding that extra color may make sky's look more blue, but in other scenes it may not be a positve effect.
I preferr getting the picture as close to standard as possible. Some scenes may not "POP" out at you like it does with Dynamic or "torch" modes, but they are accurate and that is how the scene was intended to be.
But really, in the end what matters is that YOU like it. If it looks better to you and thats the way you like it then there is nothing wrong with that.
whatever makes you enjoy the set more is what matters.

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post #1855 of 15008 Old 07-07-2008, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aetherhole View Post

Still -5 to +3 is only 8 notches of difference. -5 to +15 is 20 notches of difference. That's quite a big jump. IMO, most of the time I see skies in real life, they are not necessarily blue. If that's the sole color you are basing the adjustment over, you might want to rethink it. All other colors are probably going to be way overblown because of that.

Yes, I'm trying to pay attention to color changes. E.g. skin color looks worst at +15. But the sky is such a central element of so many movie scenes, that the -5 setting bothers me.
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post #1856 of 15008 Old 07-07-2008, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy79 View Post

Yes, I'm trying to pay attention to color changes. E.g. skin color looks worst at +15. But the sky is such a central element of so many movie scenes, that the -5 setting bothers me.

Is the sky is more important than faces for you?

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post #1857 of 15008 Old 07-07-2008, 11:47 AM
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Andy, Do you have the DVE (Digital Vide Essentials) Disk?
If not, give it a try and watch the Introductions and chapters on color accuracy. I bought it about a month ago and I learned a whole lot. It also includes test patterns for color, contrast, brightness, sharpness, etc.
One of the big things that I learned from that disk is that the human eye can be decieving and that you should never calibrate by what you think a scene should look like. Using the test patterns (or expensive equipment) is the best way to dial in a picture.
The disk has color filters that are helpful in getting the color right.
I was skeptic about buying the disk at first, I thought it was just a disk that taught the basics of HD that I already knew. But it really goes into detail about all kinds of stuff.

wHy So SeRiOus???



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post #1858 of 15008 Old 07-07-2008, 11:52 AM
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I do not. I will try to get my hands on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

Andy, Do you have the DVE (Digital Vide Essentials) Disk?
If not, give it a try and watch the Introductions and chapters on color accuracy. I bought it about a month ago and I learned a whole lot. It also includes test patterns for color, contrast, brightness, sharpness, etc.
One of the big things that I learned from that disk is that the human eye can be decieving and that you should never calibrate by what you think a scene should look like. Using the test patterns (or expensive equipment) is the best way to dial in a picture.
The disk has color filters that are helpful in getting the color right.
I was skeptic about buying the disk at first, I thought it was just a disk that taught the basics of HD that I already knew. But it really goes into detail about all kinds of stuff.

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post #1859 of 15008 Old 07-07-2008, 11:55 AM
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should have said skin looks "worse" rather than "worst."

Faces are slightly worse at +15, but sky is 10x better. So, it's not a matter of what's more important, but of measuring benefits versus costs.

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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Is the sky is more important than faces for you?

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post #1860 of 15008 Old 07-07-2008, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by kyler13 View Post

.....I was wondering about the margin on the 5020/6020. A quick google of both model types and I see prices nearly $300 less than the forum sponsors' pricing at two different locations. It surprises me to see prices that low, but I can't imagine they're giving them away or losing money. It's unbelievable what places like BB must be making on each set they sell.

not unbelievable at all.......

bb is a retail store and they are just trying to sell them at Pioneer's suggested retail pricng....... nothing new there, make money stay in business. Just check circut city for a large retail a/v electronics company on the edge of bankrupcty. of course it's a higher dollar product then most items you will ever buy so it seems high in pure dollar amounts but the margins are very typical and there are millions of other items sold in the world with higher % margins.

HD HD HD I Need more HD, Yes I am a HD Addict :)
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Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

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Pioneer , Pioneer Pdp 5020fd 50 Inch 1080p Kuro Plasma Hdtv , Pioneer Pdp 6020fd 60 Inch Class Kuro Plasma Hdtv
Gear in this thread - 5020fd by PriceGrabber.com

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