Panasonic PZ80/PZ85 - "Color Flicker", "Brightness Shifting" Troubleshooting - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 271 Old 06-15-2008, 08:26 PM - Thread Starter
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ok back to the topic. oldcband, I don't think this is the same issue as the one you point to in 2004. I am not just seeing a black level fluctuation, I see a specific non-black color on the screen fluctuate in brightness over and over creating a flickering effect.
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post #92 of 271 Old 06-16-2008, 01:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtjman View Post

ok back to the topic. oldcband, I don't think this is the same issue as the one you point to in 2004. I am not just seeing a black level fluctuation, I see a specific non-black color on the screen fluctuate in brightness over and over creating a flickering effect.

No its the same issue. The black levels don't change its brightness changes. Get that DVD I said and the when she's being intervied the background will flicker. Sky scenes were very common flickering. Blue skies with white clouds would flicker or what I used to say brightness changes. Like I pointed out there have been so many names for this issue over the years. Black shift, poor dc restoration, Cnets geek box called it "patterns not stable" just to name a few.

Its the same issue your having. Sad thing is the only way anything will happen for you is either take it back till you get one that doesn't do it. Or go through warranty and if you do make sure you pick a service center that has a sales dept that you can prove it on their showroom plasmas. I was so lucky to get anywhere with this, luckily I could prove that there same model didn't do it and why did mine? Its the only way you going to get anywhere with this. No tech is going to sit there and look for it. Also I know from experience its worse or better from display to display, my suggestion to the ones having this issue is to return it till you one that works to your satisfaction.

These are just my opinions.
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post #93 of 271 Old 06-16-2008, 05:46 AM
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If the plasma is flickering get the damn thing fixed under warrenty, this is not true for all plasmas because there are millions of people that own plasmas and have no flickering problems.
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post #94 of 271 Old 06-16-2008, 03:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Artslinger View Post

If the plasma is flickering get the damn thing fixed under warrenty, this is not true for all plasmas because there are millions of people that own plasmas and have no flickering problems.

Easy there slinger, the reason most of us have not done as you have suggested, is that this happens only occasionally. Certainly a tech isn't going to sit and watch your tv with you for hours. Based on your comments I assume you are not having this problem, so if you don't mind, please leave this thread to those of us with this problem who are trying to find a solution that we may be able to live with.
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post #95 of 271 Old 06-18-2008, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by feds27 View Post

This evening, I tested the material on a portable LCD player and guess what.....the same thing occurred. I think I've pin pointed the problem for me, it's my cable feed, in particular TNT HD.

I have Comcast HD cable and have noticed the same thing. When it occurs it is very obvious, and very annoying.

My guess is it is either an issue with the source feed (ie, the actual source from the content provider), or with the mpeg compression that is used at the cable headend, or on the actual DVR/cable box.

I noticed an identical effect on my 46PZ85U plasma as I saw on my old non-HD Sony CRT. It always appears to be source consistent, not display consistent.
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post #96 of 271 Old 06-19-2008, 08:34 PM
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I, for one, find the 'floating blacks' or 'brightness fluctuation" to be a real detraction on this set, for some programming. It doesn't seem to happen with Blu-Ray, but is very common on upconverted SD DVD and some HD cable content. Most recently, "Eyes Wide Shut" on Universal HD (an underrated film, IMHO). During the ritual ceremony (ie, the bizarre circle Tom Cruise witnesses), the brightness in this scene would actually fluctuate up and down...very distracting. Have noticed this problem a couple of dozen times in the 3 weeks I have owned the 800. I initially described this issue as flickering in an earlier post, but I think that is probably not the correct term to describe it. Whether this is or is not "floating blacks", I am not sure.

Anyway, Panasonic Concierge came out, the tech acknowledged the problem and a week later, replaced what is listed on my receipt as the A and D board. Hard to tell whether or not the problem has been fixed yet.

I urge you to call Panasonic Concierge. If you can duplicate the problem, as I was able to do to show the tech, chances are they will attempt a fix. In my case, replaced parts. I am not certain how well it has addressed the issue, as I still seem to notice a bit of problems on scenes that I had saved in TIVO. I think this may just be an issue with Panasonic and there might not be anything that can be done. I do know it's not an issue with LCD, because I never saw this on my old Sony Bravia 46XBR2.
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post #97 of 271 Old 06-19-2008, 09:49 PM
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Blast, posted to the main owner's thread by mistake -- was trying to follow up on any Concierge visits, diagnoses.

Thanks for the feedback, Freaky. Anyone else?

GTA on HDMI is shifting badly (what a brown, grey game) - I think we can discount the signal density party line my local Concierge had offered. Been making every effort to ignore it, but it's now become truly distracting. I'm thinking I'll try and chase down a warranty replacement, since so many have said they have no comparable problem at all.

Any tips (since folks on the forum have called this a pain in the arse)?
TIA!
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post #98 of 271 Old 06-20-2008, 03:44 AM
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For me the fluctuation happens when brightness is under 50 percent. Try this on all inputs. Sometimes the brightness-settings are higher in other input. Easy to forget.

All my input has the same effect, as long as I go under fifty percent. And remember, the picture has to be dark for the "effect" to kick in.

The best is to make a loop of a certian scene, BR, dvd or what have you, and change the brightness settings.
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post #99 of 271 Old 06-20-2008, 09:01 AM
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I have the brightness set right at 50 and the brightness fluctuation happens. Are you saying I need to put it higher than 50 for it to stop?
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post #100 of 271 Old 06-20-2008, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVD Freaky View Post

I, for one, find the 'floating blacks' or 'brightness fluctuation" to be a real detraction on this set, for some programming.* I think that is probably not the correct term to describe it. Whether this is or is not "floating blacks", I am not sure.*I urge you to call Panasonic Concierge. If you can duplicate the problem, as I was able to do to show the tech, chances are they will attempt a fix.* I think this may just be an issue with Panasonic and there might not be anything that can be done.

In my case 3 years ago they tried to fix it but after a few shots at it they replace or give you you're money back. TV makers warranty have a procedure and from reading these forums they operate pretty much the same.

Like I said this is a very old problem and whatever you want to call it "floating blacks, black shift, black level changing, poor dc restoration and many more". From following this problem I've never read a post where Panasonic has acknowledged the problem.

Also read the Hitachi flicker thread. Google some of the names and the AVS forum has alot of comments in the archives about this issue under many names. Also cinema helps but I don't like cinema mode, its too dark and didn't eliminate the issue altogether.

Best advice is to return your set till you get a good one or warranty and be prepared to prove the problem and don't give up.*

These are just my opinions.
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post #101 of 271 Old 06-20-2008, 12:16 PM
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i have a 42pz80u manufacture date may 2008 i have never seen any flicker or brightness change ever i use hd satellite n ps3 hdmi n 360hdmi n bluray hdmi. take your tvs back asap. or stop smoking jk lol

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post #102 of 271 Old 06-24-2008, 10:24 AM
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We watched the movie Sweeney Todd a couple nights ago on SD DVD - it has lots of drab grays and very muted colors. I saw quite a lot of flicker in several scenes. I noted some of the timestamps and am going to verify that I don't see the same issues on other TVs or computer, and see if I can vary the TV settings to make things better (assuming it isn't the movie itself).

DVD Freaky, are things looking any better for you with the replaced A & D boards?
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post #103 of 271 Old 06-24-2008, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by DVD Freaky View Post

I have the brightness set right at 50 and the brightness fluctuation happens. Are you saying I need to put it higher than 50 for it to stop?

Well, I have a older model(european model PV-60) so maybe my settings wont apply to yours. But you could always try and see what happens.

The brightness shifting stop if i go higher then 50 percent, yes.
And I also found that the PC-input takes away all the smearing I can see when I watch all other inputs.

Pc-input doesnt seem to go through the colour-decoder at all. That is a benefit on my set. But it is irritating though...

I think the effect is called "clay-face". I hope this artifact is gone in the newer models.
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post #104 of 271 Old 06-24-2008, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by surap View Post

Well, I have a older model(european model PV-60) so maybe my settings wont apply to yours. But you could always try and see what happens.

The brightness shifting stop if i go higher then 50 percent, yes.
And I also found that the PC-input takes away all the smearing I can see when I watch all other inputs.

Pc-input doesnt seem to go through the colour-decoder at all. That is a benefit on my set. But it is irritating though...

I think the effect is called "clay-face". I hope this artifact is gone in the newer models.

I think other issues are getting mixed into this thread. The clay-face was a pretty well-known and described issue on older Panasonic sets, there was even a firmware update for it. But that's not what we are talking about here.

The issue here is where certain colors flicker or alternate brightness. There are a couple videos of it posted earlier in the thread.
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post #105 of 271 Old 06-24-2008, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by bswiz View Post

I think other issues are getting mixed into this thread. The clay-face was a pretty well-known and described issue on older Panasonic sets, there was even a firmware update for it. But that's not what we are talking about here.

The issue here is where certain colors flicker or alternate brightness. There are a couple videos of it posted earlier in the thread.

Unfortunatly The model I have wont be upgraded due of lack of the input that is needed.

The brightness issue is still true though. The flickers in the colors is unknown for me. It almost sounds like Moire-effect.
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post #106 of 271 Old 06-24-2008, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surap View Post

Well, I have a older model(european model PV-60) so maybe my settings wont apply to yours. But you could always try and see what happens.

The brightness shifting stop if i go higher then 50 percent, yes.
And I also found that the PC-input takes away all the smearing I can see when I watch all other inputs.

Pc-input doesnt seem to go through the colour-decoder at all. That is a benefit on my set. But it is irritating though...

I think the effect is called "clay-face". I hope this artifact is gone in the newer models.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bswiz View Post

I think other issues are getting mixed into this thread. The clay-face was a pretty well-known and described issue on older Panasonic sets, there was even a firmware update for it. But that's not what we are talking about here.

The issue here is where certain colors flicker or alternate brightness. There are a couple videos of it posted earlier in the thread.

Yeah, i didnt realize that there was any smearing issues on this set (or plasmas in general, i thought that was an LCD issue).
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post #107 of 271 Old 06-24-2008, 02:48 PM
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does the flicker only occur on non hd sources????? and what about hd video games has anyone seen flicker cuz i havnt but i hav onlt had my panny for five days. i did see sum brightness flicker watchn the olympic tryouts in sd tho.

Stop weezing the juice!
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post #108 of 271 Old 06-26-2008, 10:43 PM
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I just started seeing flickering in some shades of brown on scenes in blu-rays and on my cable. Funny thing is is that the thread for this(very short by the way) says turning up the picture and brightness fixes this or makes it less noticable, but I didn't see it until I turned up my settings from the break in ones I was using.

I turned the settings back down but once I saw it the first time, I see it all the time now and it drives me nuts. Figures too!!! Just passed my 30 days so it looks like I'm contacting Panny in the morning. Can't see it during games though and I know for sure it just started doing this cause this is something you can not not see. Hopefully this is a easy fix or firmware fix orsomething and I wonder what causes it?

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post #109 of 271 Old 06-27-2008, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by aKa DaShiznit View Post


I'm contacting Panny in the morning.

What I know proving your case isn't going to be easy. It was a 3 month process for me and I feel VERY fortunate that I got my money back. Also if you just started seeing this issue it can't be too bad. What I've learned it varies from display to display.

You're going to have to prove your display has the issue and others don't.

As far as a fix goes this there was a "letterbox fix" for only one Panny model I know about, I believe it was the 42phd8uk. This thread has a bit of info on it.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archi.../t-639962.html

These are just my opinions.
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post #110 of 271 Old 06-27-2008, 03:50 AM
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People who have this issue should get the set replaced.

I bought two sets of last years model, one for me and one for my parents. Mine was perfect but theres had a brightness fluctuation problem. Granted it was last years model but reading this thread it seems to be the same issue.

It is a brightness fluctuation and not to be confused with the floating blacks (which is normal on Panny plasmas). The whole picture would get brighter then after a while it would dim again. If that is what people are seeing get it swapped over!! We got my parents set swapped over and that one was perect like mine with no problems.
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post #111 of 271 Old 06-27-2008, 04:08 AM
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Originally Posted by JimboTHX1138 View Post

People who have this issue should get the set replaced.

I bought two sets of last years model, one for me and one for my parents. Mine was perfect but theres had a brightness fluctuation problem. Granted it was last years model but reading this thread it seems to be the same issue.

It is a brightness fluctuation and not to be confused with the floating blacks (which is normal on Panny plasmas). The whole picture would get brighter then after a while it would dim again. If that is what people are seeing get it swapped over!! We got my parents set swapped over and that one was perect like mine with no problems.

Oops! my bad then..
The floating blacks is precisely the problem in my description. My mistake.

You say this is "normal" on Pannys plasma. This "normal" behaviour is the one reason that steers me towards Pioneer. Maybe the floating black on this years model is all gone but it has hurt me. It is impossible to calibrate when the brightness is doing this "fluctuation"-thing. What if i want to lowering the brightness. It is impossible without the effect to kick in...

Maybe there is a remedy to this on my plasma in the service menu. I would be very happy if someone could answer this.

Again, apologies if my posts has confused before.
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post #112 of 271 Old 06-27-2008, 04:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surap View Post

Oops! my bad then..
The floating blacks is precisely the problem in my description. My mistake.

You say this is "normal" on Pannys plasma. This "normal" behaviour is the one reason that steers me towards Pioneer. Maybe the floating black on this years model is all gone but it has hurt me. It is impossible to calibrate when the brightness is doing this "fluctuation"-thing. What if i want to lowering the brightness. It is impossible without the effect to kick in...

Maybe there is a remedy to this on my plasma in the service menu. I would be very happy if someone could answer this.

Again, apologies if my posts has confused before.

Yeah, the floating blacks is really the only knock against the Pannys. That particular problem has got better with each generation of panel IMO. The cinema mode seems to be best at minimising it but it is still there. I don't think there is anything you can do to eliminate the problem altogether.

You could try a backlight or a lamp either side of the panel to help give the illusion of better blacks which can help to make the floating blacks not as noticeable.
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post #113 of 271 Old 06-27-2008, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimboTHX1138 View Post

Yeah, the floating blacks is really the only knock against the Pannys. That particular problem has got better with each generation of panel IMO. The cinema mode seems to be best at minimising it but it is still there. I don't think there is anything you can do to eliminate the problem altogether.

You could try a backlight or a lamp either side of the panel to help give the illusion of better blacks which can help to make the floating blacks not as noticeable.

I already have some backlight to keep my eyes from straining(is it the right word?)

The only thing that stop the "flucty"-thing is to have the brightness over fifty percent. It degrades the quality of the picture but it will suffice until I find another plasma.

Besides that, the best picture is through the PC-input on my telly. No clay faces, just a pure signal. So if I find a external tuner with VGA, wich I already have, and if I dont by another television, this is my best option.

It is a little bit silly that PC looks the best. This is what a wanted for the other inputs, not just PC.
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post #114 of 271 Old 06-27-2008, 11:03 AM
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I'm not sure what to call mine and I know for sure it wasn't always happening. In some scenes(both dark and bright) some colors seem to "flicker". It just started happening to mine, I was posting just last week that I was one of the fortunate souls to not have this problem and now its pretty bad. I don't see how this problem what ever it is could be considered normal cause it is very distracting.

Its a shame too and I really hope they can fix it cause I am absolutely in love with this set. I already spoke to Panasonic and their solution was to take it off the wall mount and put it on the stand away from any windows. I explained it happens at night and that during the day I actually can't see it with reflection on the screen. So they gave me a case # and said if that didn't work then someone would come look at it.

I told them that I swapped out all the cables and even took my PS3 over a couple of friends houses to test for this. One friend has a 55" Hitatchi Plasma and the other a 42" Samsung Plasma, both of which did not reproduce this problem. I also have 2 32" Samsung LCD's in the other room that also do not show this problem, so I think they would have a harder time explaining exactly how something like this is normal considering the set itself didn't do this just 3 days ago!!!

Oh well guess I'll see what happens and let ya's know.

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post #115 of 271 Old 06-27-2008, 01:25 PM
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Wellll, after I discovered the shift in an HDMI feed from an XBox, I knew the Concierge was blowing smoke -- and I'm not quite so lazy that having passed the 30-day mark was gonna dissuade me from shooting for a fix.

Call up Panny. A warranty won't get you a tv replacement, it seems, but does warrant another visit from a concierge. They tried to establish a blu-ray movie on which the shift occurs, so they could purchase a copy of their own and try to duplicate it on their visit. They still maintain that lower quality sources will cause this shift (nice deniability margin there); that it's a valid issue only if it can be demonstrated on a blu-ray feed. The XBox feed's just as good, I figure, but it's damn hard getting a game to play any given cut-scene.

Since I don't actually own a blu-ray yet, it's a bit of a problem for me. I just told them to bring over any movie they liked, as long as it contained desaturated browns, or greys.

If it can be duplicated, I was informed, the Concierge would have replacement boards on-hand for some tv surgery. Which goes to show you: if they know how to fix it, they know bloody well there's a problem.

The Panny Surgeon's to visit Monday. Wish me luck
Will keep you informed, in case the story's of benefit to anyone.
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post #116 of 271 Old 06-27-2008, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firstt1mer View Post

Wellll, after I discovered the shift in an HDMI feed from an XBox, I knew the Concierge was blowing smoke -- and I'm not quite so lazy that having passed the 30-day mark was gonna dissuade me from shooting for a fix.

Call up Panny. A warranty won't get you a tv replacement, it seems, but does warrant another visit from a concierge. They tried to establish a blu-ray movie on which the shift occurs, so they could purchase a copy of their own and try to duplicate it on their visit. They still maintain that lower quality sources will cause this shift (nice deniability margin there); that it's a valid issue only if it can be demonstrated on a blu-ray feed. The XBox feed's just as good, I figure, but it's damn hard getting a game to play any given cut-scene.

Since I don't actually own a blu-ray yet, it's a bit of a problem for me. I just told them to bring over any movie they liked, as long as it contained desaturated browns, or greys.

If it can be duplicated, I was informed, the Concierge would have replacement boards on-hand for some tv surgery. Which goes to show you: if they know how to fix it, they know bloody well there's a problem.

The Panny Surgeon's to visit Monday. Wish me luck
Will keep you informed, in case the story's of benefit to anyone.

sorry if this is obvious but i havent noticed, is this only a problem with the PZ80/85's? or is it with all 2008 models? like the 800u?
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post #117 of 271 Old 06-27-2008, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firstt1mer View Post

Wellll, after I discovered the shift in an HDMI feed from an XBox, I knew the Concierge was blowing smoke -- and I'm not quite so lazy that having passed the 30-day mark was gonna dissuade me from shooting for a fix.

Call up Panny. A warranty won't get you a tv replacement, it seems, but does warrant another visit from a concierge. They tried to establish a blu-ray movie on which the shift occurs, so they could purchase a copy of their own and try to duplicate it on their visit. They still maintain that lower quality sources will cause this shift (nice deniability margin there); that it's a valid issue only if it can be demonstrated on a blu-ray feed. The XBox feed's just as good, I figure, but it's damn hard getting a game to play any given cut-scene.

Since I don't actually own a blu-ray yet, it's a bit of a problem for me. I just told them to bring over any movie they liked, as long as it contained desaturated browns, or greys.

If it can be duplicated, I was informed, the Concierge would have replacement boards on-hand for some tv surgery. Which goes to show you: if they know how to fix it, they know bloody well there's a problem.

The Panny Surgeon's to visit Monday. Wish me luck
Will keep you informed, in case the story's of benefit to anyone.

My Dr. Panny appt. is Wed. July 2nd 9am - 1pm!!! I can duplicate it on about 5 Blu-ray's that I can think of off the top off my head - Jumper, Con-Air, Blades of Glory, There Will Be Blood, and Master & Commander - so no problems re-duplicating for me on Blu-ray.

Seems they try to blame anything other than the tv until they run out of stuff to use.

Their Excuse - My Response
1. Change the cables - tried and didn't work
2. It's cause it's cable - does it on my Blu-ray
3. Normal for the TV - Well didn't do it before and my friends Samsung Plasma doesn't do it nor do my LCD's
4. Maybe its the player - does it on my cable box and both Blu-ray players
5. Do you use a surge protector? - yes but it's a power center and I have unhooked it and tried another surge protector and straight into the wall and it still does it
6. Is it wall mounted? - Yes
7. Is there any near by windows? - Yes
8. Well the reflection can cause things like this - well it does it at night and the reflection kinds of makes it less noticeable
9. Please take it off the wall mount and put it on the stand away from any lights - (2 hours later) well I put it in the basement on the stand and its still doing it

All that to get some one to come out and look at it. Now I know they have guidelines and it was easy answering some questions but some just seemed kind of silly!!

My Home Theater Setup

Xbox LIVE- aKa DaShiznit
PSN - aKa_DaShiznit
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post #118 of 271 Old 06-28-2008, 02:10 PM
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Just got the plasma over 2 weeks ago, Saw a couple screen where the picture seemed to flash a little brighter and back to normal. the odd thing is that I haven't seen in on all channels (not on SD channels yet), but it seems to occur on TW HD channels and it is sporadic and annoying. I have approx 5 hours on the TV. Blu-ray looks fine so far ( I did a couple quick demos from my PS3 disc). I am also following the break-in ( Picture set to 0) no statics and changed the 4v3 bars. Also, my manufacture date in May 08.
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post #119 of 271 Old 06-29-2008, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firstt1mer View Post

[i]. Which goes to show you: if they know how to fix it, they know bloody well there's a problem.


Will keep you informed, in case the story's of benefit to anyone.

Please do keep us informed.

Though I don't own a plasma now, I've been around the block with this issue.

But I don't know if they know how to fix it. If so they would have fixed mine. So thats why I'll watch how yours turns out.

But I also know that they won't keep trying over and over. They will replace it after two tries.

I don't believe the techs are Panny techs just private companies that are sub contracted out. At least in my case.

These are just my opinions.
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post #120 of 271 Old 06-29-2008, 10:43 AM
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I have been Breaking-in my plasma and that seems to be where the brightness issue occurs, with the picture setting at 0 and the screen zoomed, when it is on the full setting and picture is back to a setting of 50 no brightness issue on blu-ray,,, any thoughts.
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