The Official Pioneer 9G Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 1032 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #30931 of 30960 Old 04-12-2015, 06:38 AM
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sooooooo............what would be a good replacement if one couldn't find a 60" kuro for a reasonable price? also aside from price, age of these tv's are now beginning to bother me. i'm not too keen on blowing $1k-$2k for a unit that maybe 6 plus yrs old and only last me a few months. fast forward to yesterday where i took a trip to my local magnolia/bestbuy store. after talking to the rep for a while (explaining my concerns and what i already own) he showed me 2 tv's that he highly recommended. the sony 65" x900b and the newer sony 65" x950b. i'm not gonna lie, but i was impressed with the x900b, but the 950 has the nicer bezel. the prices are $3700 vs $6000 for a 65".

its hard to find a tv that can kill the elites when it comes to pic quality, but of all the new tv's i saw yesterday. the high end sony ones were the best. i would love to hear what other previous elite owners moved on to, or did you continue the hunt/risk for another kuro panel?
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post #30932 of 30960 Old 04-12-2015, 08:12 AM
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I moved to a Sony W905 (UK name) and have been pretty pleased with it.

Sharper than the Pioneer, much nicer looking, a light sensor that works really, really well (always turned them off previously) and much better to use daily with Plex and loads of other apps built in. I have gone back to just a TV and a pair of Meridian DSP Speakers, a very clean and simple set up that sounds great.
So nice to have everything built into the TV.

The one thing the Sony struggles with is doing proper black when there is quite a lot of bright areas on screen at the same time. But otherwise the picture is good, just not as good as my old Kuro, by a long shot.

I bought this knowing it was a step back picture wise, but I wanted a nice looking TV that didn't dominate the room.

As soon as there is a 47" OLED I will buy one of those, LED displays are getting 'watchable' but even the best ones are so far behind plasma still, and you won't notice where they are behind in a store, it is when you get home and the lights are low that you start to realise their shortfalls.
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post #30933 of 30960 Old 04-12-2015, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gizlaroc View Post
I moved to a Sony W905 (UK name) and have been pretty pleased with it.

Sharper than the Pioneer, much nicer looking, a light sensor that works really, really well (always turned them off previously) and much better to use daily with Plex and loads of other apps built in. I have gone back to just a TV and a pair of Meridian DSP Speakers, a very clean and simple set up that sounds great.
So nice to have everything built into the TV.

The one thing the Sony struggles with is doing proper black when there is quite a lot of bright areas on screen at the same time. But otherwise the picture is good, just not as good as my old Kuro, by a long shot.

I bought this knowing it was a step back picture wise, but I wanted a nice looking TV that didn't dominate the room.

As soon as there is a 47" OLED I will buy one of those, LED displays are getting 'watchable' but even the best ones are so far behind plasma still, and you won't notice where they are behind in a store, it is when you get home and the lights are low that you start to realise their shortfalls.
so OLED is the way to go then, in terms of trying to match plasma?? not many stores carry decent plasma's anymore and the good ones are all gone or going for silly money on eBay (brand new in box asking for at least double their original retail price)

i see you're in norwich. i'm originally from south london, but been to kings lynn a couple of times
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post #30934 of 30960 Old 04-12-2015, 10:09 AM
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Kings Lynn eh? I'm surprised you choose the East Bay over Kings Lynn!!
God that place has some odd people. haha



I have just looked at the new 55" LG OLED and think it is stunning, few people on avforums are now getting theirs and seem to be reviewing it well. I am waiting though as they said a 47" version is coming, but of you want 65" then definitely look at it.
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post #30935 of 30960 Old 04-12-2015, 10:35 AM
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Kings Lynn eh? I'm surprised you choose the East Bay over Kings Lynn!!
God that place has some odd people. haha



I have just looked at the new 55" LG OLED and think it is stunning, few people on avforums are now getting theirs and seem to be reviewing it well. I am waiting though as they said a 47" version is coming, but of you want 65" then definitely look at it.
lolz.......i need to update my new location. i just moved to naples florida @ 4-5 weeks ago. california is waaaaaay to expensive to live........its so unaffordable now. there's a brit pub down the road not too far from my new place of residence, so i'll be checking that out asap

OLED is having some issues too from what i've just been reading about. its a shame plasma is now gone
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post #30936 of 30960 Old 04-12-2015, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by porschetech View Post
lolz.......i need to update my new location. i just moved to naples florida @ 4-5 weeks ago. california is waaaaaay to expensive to live........its so unaffordable now. there's a brit pub down the road not too far from my new place of residence, so i'll be checking that out asap

OLED is having some issues too from what i've just been reading about. its a shame plasma is now gone
I think this gen that is just arriving in stores seems to have sorted most of them out, colour tinges etc. now gone, just a bit of noise at the very lowest ire levels, but no more than the dithering on Pioneers.

I could be wrong, but that is what I can gather from reading up, and the one I saw looked stunning.
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post #30937 of 30960 Old 04-12-2015, 11:38 AM
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Help! 13 blinking lights pioneer elite pro 507pu

I have a Pioneer Elite Pro 507PU, and after many years of not having any trouble with it, it would not come on today and it started with a blinking blue light that flashes 13 times.
I have seen on many forums that peoples TV's have blinked 12 times, but mine is blinking 13 times. I also have not had any luck with any information about how to trouble shoot the 507PU. If anyone out there can tell me how to fix my TV or at least tell me what the 13 blinking lights mean, I would appreciate it.
Thanks
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post #30938 of 30960 Old 04-12-2015, 04:41 PM
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My choice of display to replace my Kuro would be an OLED?

ISF Calibrator
Samsung PN64F8500
Pioneer Kuro Elite Pro-111FD
Pioneer Kuro BDP-320
Displays are like 100% cotton t-shirts. Always buy a size larger than you think you'll need, as they tend to shrink over time.
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post #30939 of 30960 Old 04-14-2015, 04:23 PM
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7 years later and the kuro is still being used to compare to other displays-

Vizio Reference Series HDR UHDTVs at 2015 Product Showcase

The demo is obviously not accurate and they made the kuro look worse as possible. Just like panasonic did.
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post #30940 of 30960 Old 04-15-2015, 04:20 PM
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i have a question about the different VS or HZ modes on the Kuros.

does anyone have an facts how different HZ affects the picture quality and in what way?
i run my KRP-500A from a PC for watching movies nowdays as i sold my old BDP LX58 Blu Ray player.

i have tested and tried to compare different modes but its hard to see any real changes in picture quality
what i know and whats visible is that you get an almost flicker free and calm image with 50HZ and Drive mode2
that puts the Kuro up to 100hz.
the tv also buzzes less with 100hz compared to 72Hz.

one other thing is that whiteballance changes from 72hz to 100hz.
another problem that is logical is that motion gets slight worse when you play 24p content at 50Hz (100hz)
but not as much as you may think and not as bad as it is worth getting more flicker for.

i read an old review some time ago from a 8G kuro and they explained the different Drive modes.
there it said that you get worse picture quality and worse blacklevel with higher HZ ?
as for blacklevel i havnt noticed any change.

just curious on how HZ is related to picture quality and whats optimal (if you dont include motion handling)

Last edited by all clear; 04-15-2015 at 04:25 PM.
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post #30941 of 30960 Old 04-15-2015, 11:21 PM
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When using audio analog outs from the kuro, 75 and 60Hz (drive mode 1 and 3) the sound is exactly the same, but it changes (worse) at 100Hz (mode 2), so something tells me this mode is worse than the other 2.
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post #30942 of 30960 Old 04-18-2015, 03:08 PM
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got my 151fd in july 2008 and it is still great - picture is great, have had no problems with the set.

it is a shame that pioneer couldn't make money making tvs.

i would only consider an oled to replace my pioneer.
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post #30943 of 30960 Old 04-19-2015, 09:31 PM
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Just got my Elite 111FD calibrated by Chadb.

He got my ISF-day mode up to ~63 ft/L
That means I now get satisfactory light output necessary for watching sports and anime while close to retaining the accuracy of Pure Mode.

ISF-night and calibrated Pure Mode ended up looking identical so it's a toss-up. Both ISF-night and Pure now have super-tight tolerances and I feel confident that my display is now reference-level for watching Hollywood flicks on PPV and Bluray

Before getting my 111FD professionally calibrated I used Sound&Vision magazine's Pure Mode settings.
http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...dtv-settings-0. I believe this is the best starting point setting for all 111FDs out there if you're gonna skip or don't have enough disposable money for professional calibration.

-----

Top - Sound&Vision Pure Mode vs ChadB Pure Mode
Middle - ISF day
Bottom - ISF night
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50 inch Panasonic Viera G20
46 inch Panasonic Viera G10
50 inch Pioneer Elite 111FD (ISF-Calibrated by Chad B)

Last edited by 34HFX83; 04-19-2015 at 09:37 PM.
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post #30944 of 30960 Old 04-20-2015, 11:54 AM
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Hello I had someone over doing some picture adjustments onmy Pioneer elite 151 and ever since have noticed it makes a buzzing noise. Does anyone know if there is a specific settingthat might have been changed to cause the noise to be worse? And if so can itbe adjusted to be toned down?
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post #30945 of 30960 Old 04-20-2015, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 34HFX83 View Post
Just got my Elite 111FD calibrated by Chadb.

He got my ISF-day mode up to ~63 ft/L
That means I now get satisfactory light output necessary for watching sports and anime while close to retaining the accuracy of Pure Mode.

ISF-night and calibrated Pure Mode ended up looking identical so it's a toss-up. Both ISF-night and Pure now have super-tight tolerances and I feel confident that my display is now reference-level for watching Hollywood flicks on PPV and Bluray

Before getting my 111FD professionally calibrated I used Sound&Vision magazine's Pure Mode settings.
http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...dtv-settings-0. I believe this is the best starting point setting for all 111FDs out there if you're gonna skip or don't have enough disposable money for professional calibration.

-----

Top - Sound&Vision Pure Mode vs ChadB Pure Mode
Middle - ISF day
Bottom - ISF night
Did you request such a high light output? Its all personal preference but to me, 39ftl is too high for a night mode. I'd apply some sunblock before switching that set to day mode
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post #30946 of 30960 Old 04-20-2015, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post
Did you request such a high light output? Its all personal preference but to me, 39ftl is too high for a night mode. I'd apply some sunblock before switching that set to day mode
From 2010 until January of this year I used Viera G20 at night using chadb's posted settings.

If I can handle ~50 ft/L at night, why not 39
In fact, my impression was that 111FD in Pure Mode was a bit dim for my taste at night compared to the Viera G20 I replaced.

Also, I have some people to impress when they come to my place to watch Mayweather vs Pacquiao fight and NBA post-season. 30-40 ft/L would be too low for these people even at night.

50 inch Panasonic Viera G20
46 inch Panasonic Viera G10
50 inch Pioneer Elite 111FD (ISF-Calibrated by Chad B)

Last edited by 34HFX83; 04-20-2015 at 02:53 PM.
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post #30947 of 30960 Old 04-20-2015, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 34HFX83 View Post
From 2010 until January of this year I used Viera G20 at night using chadb's posted settings.

If I can handle ~50 ft/L at night, why not 39
In fact, my impression was that 111FD in Pure Mode was a bit dim for my taste at night compared to the Viera G20 I replaced.

Also, I have some people to impress when they come to my place to watch Mayweather vs Pacquiao fight and NBA post-season. 30-40 ft/L would be too low for these people even at night.
45ftl is the brightest I can go, though I almost always keep my sets on night mode at 30ftl.
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post #30948 of 30960 Old 04-20-2015, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 34HFX83 View Post
Just got my Elite 111FD calibrated by Chadb.

He got my ISF-day mode up to ~63 ft/L
That means I now get satisfactory light output necessary for watching sports and anime while close to retaining the accuracy of Pure Mode.

ISF-night and calibrated Pure Mode ended up looking identical so it's a toss-up. Both ISF-night and Pure now have super-tight tolerances and I feel confident that my display is now reference-level for watching Hollywood flicks on PPV and Bluray

Before getting my 111FD professionally calibrated I used Sound&Vision magazine's Pure Mode settings.
http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...dtv-settings-0. I believe this is the best starting point setting for all 111FDs out there if you're gonna skip or don't have enough disposable money for professional calibration.

-----

Top - Sound&Vision Pure Mode vs ChadB Pure Mode
Middle - ISF day
Bottom - ISF night
That's very bright. I have contrast in Pure mode down to 35 and it's still bright with movies in the dark. Funny that some think plasmas are dim.

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post #30949 of 30960 Old 04-20-2015, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dust Bubble View Post
Hello I had someone over doing some picture adjustments onmy Pioneer elite 151 and ever since have noticed it makes a buzzing noise. Does anyone know if there is a specific settingthat might have been changed to cause the noise to be worse? And if so can itbe adjusted to be toned down?
Check the energy saving mode. Did you always have it on? The person probably turned it off. I know my buzz is much lower with it on.

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post #30950 of 30960 Old 04-20-2015, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post
That's very bright. I have contrast in Pure mode down to 35 and it's still bright with movies in the dark. Funny that some think plasmas are dim.
Plasmas below 30 ft/L like my G10... is what i'd call dim and only usable in no-light bedroom. But too bad the black levels must be somewhere in the 0.02 range now.

Also, If my 111FD is in my bedroom then 40 ft/L will sure feel bright. Right now my 111FD is in the living room with lots of ambient light coming in (even at night because of the new LED streetlights) because of arc style window design built in to the house.

50 inch Panasonic Viera G20
46 inch Panasonic Viera G10
50 inch Pioneer Elite 111FD (ISF-Calibrated by Chad B)
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post #30951 of 30960 Old 04-21-2015, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 34HFX83 View Post
Just got my Elite 111FD calibrated by Chadb.

He got my ISF-day mode up to ~63 ft/L
That means I now get satisfactory light output necessary for watching sports and anime while close to retaining the accuracy of Pure Mode.

ISF-night and calibrated Pure Mode ended up looking identical so it's a toss-up. Both ISF-night and Pure now have super-tight tolerances and I feel confident that my display is now reference-level for watching Hollywood flicks on PPV and Bluray

Before getting my 111FD professionally calibrated I used Sound&Vision magazine's Pure Mode settings.
http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...dtv-settings-0. I believe this is the best starting point setting for all 111FDs out there if you're gonna skip or don't have enough disposable money for professional calibration.

-----

Top - Sound&Vision Pure Mode vs ChadB Pure Mode
Middle - ISF day
Bottom - ISF night
Wow. I would be concerned about the chances of image retention or burn-in at such brightness if constant.
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post #30952 of 30960 Old 04-22-2015, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post
Did you request such a high light output? Its all personal preference but to me, 39ftl is too high for a night mode. I'd apply some sunblock before switching that set to day mode
Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post
That's very bright. I have contrast in Pure mode down to 35 and it's still bright with movies in the dark. Funny that some think plasmas are dim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by prepress View Post
Wow. I would be concerned about the chances of image retention or burn-in at such brightness if constant.

I'm guessing you guys have modified the ABL?

Yeah, my 111FD does quote 63 ft/L but it doesn't "feel that bright". I guess this has to do with aggressive ABL that kicks in (I think I just discovered about ABL after I wondered why 63 ft/L with kuro doesn't feel that bright that I have to apply some sunblock)

Even watching at night the ISF-night mode didn't make my eyes squint, but my Toshiba 34HFX83 TheaterWide HD CRT from years ago (~2004-2010) did. I bet this HD CRT only output ~30 ft/L but I do remember squinting in some scenes because of the lack of ABL. (if it did have ABL, then it's nowhere as authoritative as Kuro and Kuro Elite.)

50 inch Panasonic Viera G20
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50 inch Pioneer Elite 111FD (ISF-Calibrated by Chad B)

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post #30953 of 30960 Old 04-22-2015, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
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Wow. I would be concerned about the chances of image retention or burn-in at such brightness if constant.
I make sure I run the screen wipe mode that lasts up to 1 hour before I go to sleep.

At one point (... maybe in 2-3 occasions) I ran my 111FD in performance mode just for the heck of it for like the whole day. Nope, no burn in. There may be a couple of temporary image retention here and there, but it's easily cleaned up when I change to another channel and leave it there for an hour or two.

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post #30954 of 30960 Old 04-22-2015, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
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Yeah, my 111FD does quote 63 ft/L but it doesn't "feel that bright". I guess this has to do with aggressive ABL that kicks in
you will only get 14fL on a full white screen so that is probably why it doesnt feel brighter.
watching at 63 fL that will be reduced to only 14fL on high apl scenes changes gamma up or down constantly.
so your Kuro is not set up to reference with the ISF day mode.
it is calibrated for low apl scenes with correct gamma but with mid to high apl scenes you get washed out details and an to low gamma due to the abl dimming.

to me max contrast on a kuro looks worse because of the high brightness changes and gamma changes.
you will get a more correct image if you use the ISF night mode
there you only have brightness changes from 35fL peak to 14fL fullscreen.

you can get 25fL on a full white screen on a 9G kuro but im not going to tell you how you just need to search for it
with that day mode looks alot better with a picture that doesnt get washed out on bright scenes.
it keeps a more stable gamma curve.

Last edited by all clear; 04-22-2015 at 08:20 PM.
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post #30955 of 30960 Old 04-22-2015, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
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you can get 25fL on a full white screen on a 9G kuro but im not going to tell you how you just need to search for it
with that day mode looks alot better with a picture that doesnt get washed out on bright scenes.
it keeps a more stable gamma curve.
Is it even safe to tweak that ?

dnice mentioned somewhere in this thread that tweaking ABL is...

"...is worse than playing with voltage controls in PANEL ADJ 1. I swear you tweakers are going to learn the hard way."

50 inch Panasonic Viera G20
46 inch Panasonic Viera G10
50 inch Pioneer Elite 111FD (ISF-Calibrated by Chad B)
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post #30956 of 30960 Old 04-22-2015, 11:25 PM
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I think this explains why even my Toshiba 34HFX83 TheaterWide (no longer with me) made me look away in some scenes that feel "too bright" even though it only output at most ~30 ft/L. I can't say ISF-day at "63 ft/L" made me look away or even wince.

50 inch Panasonic Viera G20
46 inch Panasonic Viera G10
50 inch Pioneer Elite 111FD (ISF-Calibrated by Chad B)
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post #30957 of 30960 Old 04-23-2015, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 34HFX83 View Post
Is it even safe to tweak that ?
learned "the hard way" is something i havnt seen yet after over a year with higher an higher abl setting.
the tv will probably explode one day if you take the words from that quote

but yes the panel will get a little bit hotter (+5C degrees probably)
and it will use more power and you will also reduce the lifespan to some degree.
how much i dont know

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post #30958 of 30960 Old Yesterday, 02:38 PM
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Hi Everyone,

I am looking to purchase a used KURO 111FD or 151FD or 500's

I am a bit skeptical after reading all the repair stories on power boards failing, buzzing, fans, and etc.
Would it be really wise to invest $500-$700 on these used sets now?

Any comment would be appreciated. Thanks
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post #30959 of 30960 Old Yesterday, 05:19 PM
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Buy two in case one fails, that is what i did. btw my KRP 500M is seven months old, no problems yet.
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post #30960 of 30960 Old Today, 03:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 34HFX83 View Post
I'm guessing you guys have modified the ABL?

Yeah, my 111FD does quote 63 ft/L but it doesn't "feel that bright". I guess this has to do with aggressive ABL that kicks in (I think I just discovered about ABL after I wondered why 63 ft/L with kuro doesn't feel that bright that I have to apply some sunblock)

Even watching at night the ISF-night mode didn't make my eyes squint, but my Toshiba 34HFX83 TheaterWide HD CRT from years ago (~2004-2010) did. I bet this HD CRT only output ~30 ft/L but I do remember squinting in some scenes because of the lack of ABL. (if it did have ABL, then it's nowhere as authoritative as Kuro and Kuro Elite.)
I use only ISF Night and at 30–32ft/L (I forget which). This isn't a bright room, and I'm a bit light-sensitive, so it's perfect. Plus, I don't think it puts as much of a strain on the power supply. No image retention or burn-in issues after over 6.5 years. The calibration (Kevin Miller) gave things a nice crisp look, so I'm happy as is. As I recall, my previous TV (a 27" XBR CRT) had the brightness adjusted slightly upward from flat. But that, of course, was a smaller screen.
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