The Official Pioneer 9G Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 30620 Old 06-19-2008, 10:07 PM
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leftkidney, I think so. Ever since I gave up my CRT about 7 years ago I've been looking for a display that could match the contrast of a CRT. The 9G Pioneers do this. For the first time in 7 years I'm truly happy with the black levels of my display. I've been through 2 front projectors, a SXRD RPTV, 2 LCD panels, and now finally the Pioneer Plasma since my Mitsubishi CRT RPTV.

"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx
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post #362 of 30620 Old 06-19-2008, 10:08 PM
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congrats asystole! I look forward to hearing more what you think of the set!

Also, do yourself a favor and get a Blu-ray player! You won't be sorry!

"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx
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post #363 of 30620 Old 06-19-2008, 10:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leftkidney View Post

this may seem like a stupid question but here it is


I am very picky about contrast on TV's and black levels, because of this I still prefer my 40" SONY CRT Trinitron over my newer 1080p 42" XBR4 - so much so I sold it to my neighbor and kept my 5 year old TV since the picture was so much better

and yes both were professionally calibrated, even the ISF dude who came out said that the CRT looked better - I was pissed to say the least having spent so much money on the TV and then to have it calibrated and the CRT to look much better was crap IMO

will I have this problem with the Elite's? is the blacks up to par with CRT as of yet or should I wait another year or so until the 10g and 11g panels come out

IMO, it's better than any CRT that I have ever seen. Black levels and contrast are excellent. I can't see how you would be disappointed. The XBR 4 doesn't come close. I'm friend has a XBR 5 and I would have returned it. horrible contrast. You should go to your local bb and see if they have 151FD on display and see for yourself.
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post #364 of 30620 Old 06-19-2008, 10:28 PM
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Alright, after I got home tonight from work I sat down and picked out several HD-DVDs and Blu-rays to watch scenes from. After I had experienced the improved overall motion with standard DVDs yesterday compared to my previous XBR5, I decided to see if there was much difference with direct 24fps sources comparing from what I remember from the XBR5.

I was really surprised! There was a pretty big difference. In fact, there were times during several sequences that I remember distinctly being annoyed by the inherent 24fps choppiness on my XBR5 that simply was not distracting at all on the 151. The film judder was still present, but I think that the 151 resolved the motion quicker than the XBR5 does.

Motion detail was greatly improved in comparison, as well. And that's really one of the biggest things I looked for when I switched from an LCD to a Plasma. Motion detail now does not get blurred and I actually am finding it easier on my eyes. To the XBR's credit, motion detail was certainly a lot faster than many other LCD panels that I've seen, but it still was noticeably slower than what I wanted.

And since I am still in my break-in period, I only spent a little bit of time checking these things out before I decided to put the break-in DVD back on and let it do it's thing.

But, the more regular content that I see on this set, the more I am really thinking I am finished upgrading for a long while; and this is saying a lot for me!

"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx
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post #365 of 30620 Old 06-19-2008, 10:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aetherhole View Post

congrats asystole! I look forward to hearing more what you think of the set!

Also, do yourself a favor and get a Blu-ray player! You won't be sorry!

I'm waiting for the new Pioneer BR players to come out. Anyone know when they're due out?

Also, I have noticed that in some movies played on my HTPC. The Black bars on the bottom and top aren't true black and in other movies I can't tell where the bezel ends and the bars begins. Anyone else notice this? It might be how they were converted.
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post #366 of 30620 Old 06-20-2008, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by asystole13 View Post

IMO, it's better than any CRT that I have ever seen. Black levels and contrast are excellent. I can't see how you would be disappointed. The XBR 4 doesn't come close. I'm friend has a XBR 5 and I would have returned it. horrible contrast. You should go to your local bb and see if they have 151FD on display and see for yourself.

yea they only have the 150 and 110 on display - I was told soon they will have the newer ones on display

it is a magnolia store so it is properly lit (not all bright lights and such) so I should be able to see whats what provided the TV isnt in the same spot the 150 and 110 are in which is up high pointing down on a angle

I asked about this and they told me they could take it down so I could see it better but thats just stupid, it should be in the place of the crappy XBR's that are at ground level and have a couth in front of them

the "viewing" rooms only have a 70+" Plasma from LG I think (not sure but it looks OK) and front projectors as well as some XBR's - its weird they have all the good/better sets outside of that room



also I have been told that the Elite I saw at CES was not a 9G but a prototype that should become the 10 or 11G - compaired to the 8G it was next to the 8G looked like crap

I want the retro skin back please
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post #367 of 30620 Old 06-20-2008, 12:55 AM
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Meh, I made the move. I sold my ISF calibrated Samsung LN-T5271, and ordered the Pro 151fd to coincide with the 950fd that is in our bedroom. The wife wanted a bigger screen anyway, so I guess it was an easy decision.

As to the BD player. I wouldn't bother with anything other than a PS3, unless you want a standalone. In that case, go with the Sony that is being released in July. Its profile 1.1(2.0 ready), w/ the higher end version being released sometime in November, and this one will be 2.0 right out of the box. Reason why I say go with the Sonys is because they will be the only ones with an ethernet port, so they will be able to receive fw updates via the web. Also, the only players with 2.0.
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post #368 of 30620 Old 06-20-2008, 03:07 AM
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does anyone else know why the 60" is a 150 and 151 and the 50" is a 110 and a 111

wouldnt it make more sense to call it a 150 and 151 for 50" and 160 and 161 for 60"

it is really confusing usually model numbers are used to identify the screen size of a display in some form or another (plasmas seem to be the exception to this for some reason) in the same line

like if I told someone (someone who didnt already know) I had a 151 they would think it was a 50" or maybe a 51" but not likely a 60" - like wise if I said I had a 111 they would not even know what size I was talking about

it just seems stupid to me all these numbers that have to have some meaning other than to differentiate from one to the other, like include the size of a display if it is a display or if not then just use normal numbers like 1, 2, 3, 4, or 100, 200, 300, 400, and so on

I want the retro skin back please
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post #369 of 30620 Old 06-20-2008, 04:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asystole13 View Post

I'm waiting for the new Pioneer BR players to come out. Anyone know when they're due out?

Also, I have noticed that in some movies played on my HTPC. The Black bars on the bottom and top aren't true black and in other movies I can't tell where the bezel ends and the bars begins. Anyone else notice this? It might be how they were converted.

Nothing unusual with different black levels in different films. The Blade Runner box has a disc, in witch the black levels are truly bad. But it is not remastered. Thats why.....
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post #370 of 30620 Old 06-20-2008, 04:24 AM
 
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D-Nice or anyone that can answer

My 151 came in last night and I posted some pics in thread. Question I have are the 8g Breakin Settings still vaild for the 9g? Any other settings need to be changed? Also is the USB version as good as the DVD for breakin. Using the USB I wouldnt have to have my dvd player for 6 days straight

Thanks in advance for your help
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post #371 of 30620 Old 06-20-2008, 04:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cydog3 View Post

D-Nice or anyone that can answer

My 151 came in last night and I posted some pics in thread. Question I have are the 8g Breakin Settings still vaild for the 9g? Any other settings need to be changed? Also is the USB version as good as the DVD for breakin. Using the USB I wouldnt have to have my dvd player for 6 days straight

Thanks in advance for your help

I'll respond, not because I'm an expert, but because I've been following these threads daily/hourly for the past few months and have seen that question answered more than a few times. The answer I've seen again and again is that the 8G break-in settings are valid for the 9G break-in and the USB is equally effective as long as you see the slides looping through continuously. The bold print, however, is worth noticing. Do not use the break-in settings for non-break-in viewing. There are separate settings for that should you be tempted to interrupt your break-in to watch a few minutes of broadcast or film.

Good luck.

--Scooter
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post #372 of 30620 Old 06-20-2008, 04:47 AM
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I am interested in a pro 111. My apt is small and it will be in the corner on a stand, I know you can remove the speakers, Can you lie them on top of eachother sideways on one of the shelves and not effect the sound of the display? Anyone think this will work fine ?
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post #373 of 30620 Old 06-20-2008, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aetherhole View Post

leftkidney, I think so. Ever since I gave up my CRT about 7 years ago I've been looking for a display that could match the contrast of a CRT. The 9G Pioneers do this. For the first time in 7 years I'm truly happy with the black levels of my display. I've been through 2 front projectors, a SXRD RPTV, 2 LCD panels, and now finally the Pioneer Plasma since my Mitsubishi CRT RPTV.

Aetherhole,

Could you comment on the PQ between your new 151 and your old Mitsubishi RPTV? I currently have an ISF calibrated 55613 and I'm looking to move to the 151 in the next few months. The PQ on my Mitsubishi is fantastic, but it does have all the downsides of a CRT RPTV. Do you feel like the black levels and overall contrast of the 151 outshine your old CRT? Dealing with convergence on my CRT is getting old plus I'm ready to have a TV that doesn't take up so much space in my living room!
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post #374 of 30620 Old 06-20-2008, 06:29 AM
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I was looking for a comparison between the PQ of the FD150 and the new FD151. I cant imagine it could be much better! One thing that still shocks me is that Pioneer came out with a replacement line for the Kuro G8 sets in less than a year.

On a side note my FD150 was being replaced today with the last new FD150 in a box that my store had for excessive buzzing of the panel. We get the replacement setup and there are group of dead pixels about 1/2" round almost dead center screen! How the heck did this set pass inspection and get shipped. The replacement set was Dec2007 build date and when they turned it on it had the same buzzing as my first 150. The first 150 started to develope the cyclical buzzing going from low during dark screen to loud during light screens or text after about 140 hours before that a small normal amount of buzzing. I can hear it from my seat about 12' from the panel and because it cycles up and down it becomes annoying. After reading some posts here is that normal? Again my first 150 did not have this issue till after break in. Oh new wood floors installed as well so that increases the reflection of the buzzing more. Well the replacement set went back as Dead on Arrival!
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post #375 of 30620 Old 06-20-2008, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cydog3 View Post

D-Nice or anyone that can answer

My 151 came in last night and I posted some pics in thread. Question I have are the 8g Breakin Settings still vaild for the 9g? Any other settings need to be changed? Also is the USB version as good as the DVD for breakin. Using the USB I wouldnt have to have my dvd player for 6 days straight

Thanks in advance for your help


For the 151, DNice also said to turn off the Block NR and Mosquito NR, both of which are not listed on the 8G break-in settings.

Kuro'd
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post #376 of 30620 Old 06-20-2008, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Fanaticalism View Post

Meh, I made the move. I sold my ISF calibrated Samsung LN-T5271, and ordered the Pro 151fd to coincide with the 950fd that is in our bedroom. The wife wanted a bigger screen anyway, so I guess it was an easy decision.

As to the BD player. I wouldn't bother with anything other than a PS3, unless you want a standalone. In that case, go with the Sony that is being released in July. Its profile 1.1(2.0 ready), w/ the higher end version being released sometime in November, and this one will be 2.0 right out of the box. Reason why I say go with the Sonys is because they will be the only ones with an ethernet port, so they will be able to receive fw updates via the web. Also, the only players with 2.0.

Is the PS3 capable of any of the new HD audio codecs? Which ones?

Does Sony have any plans to give it full compatibility with all of the HD audios?

Kuro'd
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post #377 of 30620 Old 06-20-2008, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by DMP2722 View Post

I was looking for a comparison between the PQ of the FD150 and the new FD151. I cant imagine it could be much better! One thing that still shocks me is that Pioneer came out with a replacement line for the Kuro G8 sets in less than a year.

On a side note my FD150 was being replaced today with the last new FD150 in a box that my store had for excessive buzzing of the panel. We get the replacement setup and there are group of dead pixels about 1/2" round almost dead center screen! How the heck did this set pass inspection and get shipped. The replacement set was Dec2007 build date and when they turned it on it had the same buzzing as my first 150. The first 150 started to develope the cyclical buzzing going from low during dark screen to loud during light screens or text after about 140 hours before that a small normal amount of buzzing. I can hear it from my seat about 12' from the panel and because it cycles up and down it becomes annoying. After reading some posts here is that normal? Again my first 150 did not have this issue till after break in. Oh new wood floors installed as well so that increases the reflection of the buzzing more. Well the replacement set went back as Dead on Arrival!


There are many factors with the buzzing as you have mentioned - hearing (and the specific ability to hear the buzz frequency), seat position, and room acoustics are among the top. Personally, I think most of these sets are going to buzz to a degree. It has been pretty well-documented that the buzz increases with bright white scenes, so I don't think you are any different in that regard. Unfortunately, it sounds like your buzzing is about par for the course. Also, I would imagine that your new wood floors really amplify the sound.

I think that a portion of those who claim their buzzing is very low/non-existent just can't hear as well.

Kuro'd
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post #378 of 30620 Old 06-20-2008, 07:27 AM
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I cheated last night and threw in the I Robot Blu-Ray and was amazed. All I can say is WOW . One question I have though, when I check the 151 display info it says 1080p 36bit. What exactly does the 36 bit mean? Does this mean its upscaling the movie is playing similar to how the new Pioneer Blu-Ray players will upscale?
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post #379 of 30620 Old 06-20-2008, 07:30 AM
 
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Originally Posted by FocusedOne View Post

For the 151, DNice also said to turn off the Block NR and Mosquito NR, both of which are not listed on the 8G break-in settings.

Thanks !!
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post #380 of 30620 Old 06-20-2008, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Aetherhole View Post

Eagles, I tried sending a 480i signal briefly and I didn't like it as much as the 720p setting.

Really? This is for SD tv programming or SD-DVD playback?
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post #381 of 30620 Old 06-20-2008, 08:10 AM
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Is the PS3 capable of any of the new HD audio codecs? Which ones?

Does Sony have any plans to give it full compatibility with all of the HD audios?

It can pass any with it's latest firmware update.
Interna; decoding most likely will not happen.
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post #382 of 30620 Old 06-20-2008, 08:12 AM
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BdoUK,

My mitsubishi was a 55857 and honestly, I think I am happier with the 151 than I have ever been with ANY set that I've owned. The 151 is generally brighter than the Mits and the black levels are pretty much on par with the CRTs. I always hated re-converging my RPTV. I was so anal about it that I would do it almost weekly so not having to deal with that is a plus.
The size factor is always nice, too.

I think you'll be very happy with the 151.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BdoUK View Post

Aetherhole,

Could you comment on the PQ between your new 151 and your old Mitsubishi RPTV? I currently have an ISF calibrated 55613 and I'm looking to move to the 151 in the next few months. The PQ on my Mitsubishi is fantastic, but it does have all the downsides of a CRT RPTV. Do you feel like the black levels and overall contrast of the 151 outshine your old CRT? Dealing with convergence on my CRT is getting old plus I'm ready to have a TV that doesn't take up so much space in my living room!


"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx
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post #383 of 30620 Old 06-20-2008, 08:14 AM
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EAGLES, the PS3 actually does internal encoding for the HD-Audio formats and cannot pass them directly.

"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx
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post #384 of 30620 Old 06-20-2008, 08:22 AM
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I'm sorry, I mixed up my response. It does pass through, but my AVR.
I apologize.
In the end it works perfectly though. Just watched a horrible movie with DTS-HD(Jumper) and it sounded terrific.
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post #385 of 30620 Old 06-20-2008, 08:39 AM
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Bummer . . . there's now a stuck/dead pixel on my set (111). It's about four inches from the left side and four inches from the top. It is reddish, and I can actually see it from my couch when there's a bright scene or when it's a shot of the sky. My eyes hurt from studying it this morning!

I'm ran Discovery HD for about an hour before leaving for work this morning, but it didn't clear the pixel. I have the break-in USB running now and am hoping that when I get back from my trip this weekend, it will be resolved (although I know that's super optimistic). Is there nothing I can do?
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post #386 of 30620 Old 06-20-2008, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by El Bandito View Post

Bummer . . . there's now a stuck/dead pixel on my set (111). It's about four inches from the left side and four inches from the top. It is reddish, and I can actually see it from my couch when there's a bright scene or when it's a shot of the sky.

Check your manual as I believe that if you can see a dead pixel from a specified distance (8 feet?) then Pioneer should take care of it.
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post #387 of 30620 Old 06-20-2008, 10:54 AM
 
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Bummer . . . there's now a stuck/dead pixel on my set (111). It's about four inches from the left side and four inches from the top. It is reddish, and I can actually see it from my couch when there's a bright scene or when it's a shot of the sky. My eyes hurt from studying it this morning!

I'm ran Discovery HD for about an hour before leaving for work this morning, but it didn't clear the pixel. I have the break-in USB running now and am hoping that when I get back from my trip this weekend, it will be resolved (although I know that's super optimistic). Is there nothing I can do?
Hi El Bandito,

If I recall correctly, there is indeed something you can do. I know these two programs work very well on LCD displays with stuck pixels (but NOT actual dead pixels--yours is only stuck, though, so there's hope). I honestly don't know if they are as effective on plasmas, but perhaps some other forum member can answer that question. If no one else chimes in, I'll dig around on the net as best I can and try to come back with a definitive answer.

Anwyay, the first program is called Dead Pixel Buddy and what it does is help you to identify all of your stuck subpixels. The second program is for unsticking them; it flashes a bunch of rapidly blinking colored screens in a continuous loop. It's a small mpeg, so you'll need to re-author it at 1080p to make sure it fills your screen--don't worry, this is easy to do.

Running the second program for a day or two non-stop does succeed in unsticking the subpixels (success rates are not reported to be 100%, but as I recall, the percentage is high and it certainly worked in my case).

Now, since you have a plasma display, you might want to wait on using this program until you've broken the tv in, using the break-in DVD for the suggested period of time. Given the investment cost of these Kuros, I know that's what I would do.

I've attached a zipped copy of Dead Pixel Buddy for you. I'll upload a copy of the other program once I manage to dig it out of all my old files (if I have time, I'll re-author it for you).

Yours,

David

 

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post #388 of 30620 Old 06-20-2008, 11:02 AM
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Thanks so much, David! I'm really glad to hear there might be something I can do! I will run the program early next week and see what happens. I bought my TV from BB, so I theoretically could return it and get another, but that's a big hassle, so I'd love to fix it. I hope you can find it.

How do you know the pixel is stuck rather than dead? Because it's red rather than black?
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post #389 of 30620 Old 06-20-2008, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by MWoody View Post

Well my 151 was delivered yesterday from Sound Advice (Tweeter) and I am happy to report that the buzzing that you guys scared the hell out of me about is not an issue at all. Haven't seen any stuck/dead pixels and so far I am extremely happy. This thing is amazing. Have been running the break-in DVD for about 24 hours now. I told my wife that the TV is off limits until next Wednesday. Good thing she is out of town for a couple of days and I have 3 other TV's as well. One for the kids one for her and one for me. Here are a couple of pictures.

Cool, fit's very nice!

Movies must be OAR, sports and movies must also have 5.1 audio, No EE or NO SALE!
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post #390 of 30620 Old 06-20-2008, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-A-G-L-E-S View Post

It can pass any with it's latest firmware update.
Interna; decoding most likely will not happen.

Actually, I believe it is the other way around........The PS3 doesn't do bitstream. Its being processed and sent via PCM. That's why the reciever will show "PCM" on the front display, instead of Dolby True HD, etc.

*edit - Sorry EAGLES, I was beat to it!
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