The Official Pioneer 9G Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 30646 Old 06-23-2008, 06:58 AM
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Sorry for my noob descriptions causing confusion.

What I meant was that in layman's term (and believe me, I am a layman), the HDMI satellite hookup doesn't look nearly as nice/sharp as the component did, even down to the guide menus. The letter on the guide looks like it's made of huge pixels/blocks in poor resolution, rather than smooth and sharp.

As for the aspect ratios, when I was using the component, I discovered that setting the satellite receiver to 4:3#2 worked very well. On other settings the image was always stretched wide or zoomed in or had gray side bars, none of these were attractive. On 4:3#2 with component, the auto size seemed to work much much better and would not uncommonly employ the black side bars. Very little stretching was noticeable. With hdmi however, I have gone through all the settings combinations, all of them result in horizontal stretching.

Well I had not done a break-in of my 6020, and after reading the forum I figured I should do it for my 151, but now with this raging debate I'm not so sure again!
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post #542 of 30646 Old 06-23-2008, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by HerbalEd View Post

Please elaborate on what you mean by "burn their displaying." How did this burn manifest? Do you recommend any kind of "break-in" with a new plasma? Any dos or don'ts?

There has recently been so much misinformation on the breaking-in of new plasmas, and the good and/or harm that it does .... if anything. You are definitely the man of authority with much experience in such matters, and I ... and I'm sure others here ... would appreciate your advise and opinion. We'd also be interested to hear from any other professional calibrators on the forum. Thanks.

What I call burn is an image that is worn in the display unevenly. You can see it when the image changes.

The key thing with plasma is to keep the light output below 40 fL maximum and not to have ticker tapes and black bars on the screen for more than about 50% of the time. I have never seen a display that was treated this way show uneven wear. The newer plasmas also appear to be much less likely to wear unevenly.

W. Jeff Meier


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post #543 of 30646 Old 06-23-2008, 07:38 AM
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Does anyone know whether D-Nice or another reputable individual will be releasing some reference settings for the 151FD any time soon?
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post #544 of 30646 Old 06-23-2008, 09:05 AM
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Are there any online dealers for the 151FD? Or is my only option Magnolia at Best Buy?

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post #545 of 30646 Old 06-23-2008, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickff View Post

Are there any online dealers for the 151FD? Or is my only option Magnolia at Best Buy?

The Elite cannot be sold online, but the phone should work. Contact the names on this list, starting at the top.
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post #546 of 30646 Old 06-23-2008, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by rlarsen462 View Post

Does anyone know whether D-Nice or another reputable individual will be releasing some reference settings for the 151FD any time soon?

I don't think D-Nice's 151 has been delivered yet. He will probably post settings for it about two weeks after it's delivered.

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post #547 of 30646 Old 06-23-2008, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by umr View Post

All I can say is I have never seen a benefit from it and I have seen one person burn their displaying trying to accelerate the break-in. I would never do it with my own plasma.

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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

With a couple of exceptions, I ran it 24/7 for about 500 hours. After the first day, when I asked UMR what he thought, I used the 6010's reference settings provided by D-Nice. During the first 150-200 hours I watched only 16x9 material with no black bars or fixed images when the break-in DVD wasn't running. From that point on, until we reached 500 hours, I followed any material with black bars or fixed images (NFL) with either Discovery Channel or the break-in DVD. Most of the time was logged using the breaking DVD.

The set never increased is heat output during those 500 hours. Our house probably ranged between 60 and 75 degrees during that time.

I'm not qualified to judge the merits of a hot break-in, but given the cost of the display, in relation to our TV budget, I felt better reducing risk. I can't argue either side of this issue.


It sounds like the only major difference between the recommended break-in process and what you did is simply using the regular reference picture settings instead of the break-in settings. And by continuing to use the break-in DVD after consulting UMR, I assume that neither of you have an inherent problem with the Break-in DVD itself, just a concern over using the "hot" break-in settings. Is this correct?

I also assume that both UMR and yourself don't see a problem with running the set 24/7 since you also continued to do this after your consultation. Is this correct?

After hearing somebody as reputable as UMR weigh in on the matter, it makes me wonder how the break-in disc/method ever got so popular. If the most respected calibrator on this entire message board thinks the break-in settings are bogus, what am I to believe?

It almost seems to me that the recommended break-in settings should be prefaced with the information that several/many respected AVS-affiliated calibrators do not recommend them.

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post #548 of 30646 Old 06-23-2008, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FocusedOne View Post

It sounds like the only major difference between the recommended break-in process and what you did is simply using the regular reference picture settings instead of the break-in settings. And by continuing to use the break-in DVD after consulting UMR, I assume that neither of you have an inherent problem with the Break-in DVD itself, just a concern over using the "hot" break-in settings. Is this correct?

I also assume that both UMR and yourself don't see a problem with running the set 24/7 since you also continued to do this after your consultation. Is this correct?

After hearing somebody as reputable as UMR weigh in on the matter, it makes me wonder how the break-in disc/method ever got so popular. If the most respected calibrator on this entire message board thinks the break-in settings are bogus, what am I to believe?

It almost seems to me that the recommended break-in settings should be prefaced with the information that several/many respected AVS-affiliated calibrators do not recommend them.

Focusedone, my thinking is that none of the dozens, if not hundreds, of people who have used the break-in disc at the hot setting, have reported, to my knowledge, a problem because of following D-Nice's suggestions. Seems to me running the cartoon channel would be better but for lack of that I used the break-in disc. It seems that the worse that probably happened is that I burned through quite a bit of electricity and left a bigger carbon footprint. I will say that when I first put the the break-in DVD in there were streaks in the solid colors that appear to be completely gone now.

Who know? After owning 2 plasmas I will say that it seems one has to really go out of the way to mess up a plasma and that they're more forgiving than one would think.
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post #549 of 30646 Old 06-23-2008, 10:24 AM
 
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FocusedOne The break in disk is suggested and many do agree with it. It is not required but have seen many use it over the years.
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post #550 of 30646 Old 06-23-2008, 10:39 AM
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Didn't UMR say that he wouldn't personally run the break-in DVD himself? I think that's saying something right there. I don't remember exactly what he said, but he didn't think the constant accelerated break-in period would help. Either way, I've been running it at nights while the family is asleep, watching regular content when I get home from work, and occasionally running the break-in for a couple hours during the day. I've only clocked about 74 hours of break-in time and I think once I hit 100 this week, I will stop and just be a little bit more cautious what is displayed on the television for the next month or so.

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post #551 of 30646 Old 06-23-2008, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FocusedOne View Post

It sounds like the only major difference between the recommended break-in process and what you did is simply using the regular reference picture settings instead of the break-in settings.

Yes.

Quote:
And by continuing to use the break-in DVD after consulting UMR, I assume that neither of you have an inherent problem with the Break-in DVD itself, just a concern over using the "hot" break-in settings. Is this correct?

It's correct for me.

Quote:
I also assume that both UMR and yourself don't see a problem with running the set 24/7 since you also continued to do this after your consultation. Is this correct?

Yes, but again, it's correct for me. I did keep a watch on the 6010 to be sure it wasn't over-heating.

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If the most respected calibrator on this entire message board thinks the break-in settings are bogus, what am I to believe?

I don't think UMR implied that the break-in settings are bogus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

What I call burn is an image that is worn in the display unevenly. You can see it when the image changes.

The key thing with plasma is to keep the light output below 40 fL maximum and not to have ticker tapes and black bars on the screen for more than about 50% of the time. I have never seen a display that was treated this way show uneven wear. The newer plasmas also appear to be much less likely to wear unevenly.

From what UMR described, the person who burned his display exceeded the 40 fl maximum that UMR uses, and probably didn't followed instructions to avoid using the break-in setting with normal programing. That's how I can imagine getting burn-in from the break-in settings.

Since you have followed D-Nice's instructions I don't expect you to encounter burn-in before you finish using the break-in settings this afternoon.

From my reading in the 8G and 9G threads, a number of people add to their risk by not following instructions. If you use the extremely bright break-in settings with anything other than the break-in DVD, it wouldn't be hard to damage a display. Still, other than UMR's report, I don't recall folks reporting burn-in from using the "hot/fast" method.

D-Nice did the break-in settings in red, and that indicated to me "caution/danger". Then he made it clear that the settings were never to be used with any material other than the break-in DVD. People don't always read carefully.

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post #552 of 30646 Old 06-23-2008, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aetherhole View Post

Didn't UMR say that he wouldn't personally run the break-in DVD himself?

I think it's the break-in settings that UMR wouldn't use because they exceed 40 fl of brightness.

The break-in DVD is nothing but a series of monochrome full screen images that on their own do nothing but evenly activate the pixels through the full range of their color capabilities. The "active" ingredient is the settings which produce very high brightness.

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post #553 of 30646 Old 06-23-2008, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post


I don't think UMR implied that the break-in settings are bogus.

You're right, bogus was the wrong word. I should have said risky. I think UMR implied there was some level of risk by saying that he would never use them on his own plasma.

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post #554 of 30646 Old 06-23-2008, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by FocusedOne View Post

You're right, bogus was the wrong word. I should have said risky. I think UMR implied there was some level of risk by saying that he would never use them on his own plasma.

That's how I read his advise way back when.

I also didn't want to be the Plasma Nazie in our household. By using the reference settings combined with the DVD I avoided having to enforce a lot of rules.

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post #555 of 30646 Old 06-23-2008, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by optivity View Post

Isn't it ridiculous to require an ISF Calibration to eliminate/minimize black crush on a $4000 - $6500 PDP?

No more so than having to do periodic tune-ups to a $100,000 automobile. A plasma is not a rock ... it's a dynamic, high-tech instrument that needs occasional tuning to maintain optimal performance.
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post #556 of 30646 Old 06-23-2008, 12:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by HerbalEd View Post

No more so than having to do periodic tune-ups to a $100,000 automobile. A plasma is not a rock ... it's a dynamic, high-tech instrument that needs occasional tuning to maintain optimal performance.

Hopefully your $100,000 automobile runs well from day (1) when you drive it off the lot. I expect the same level of performance regarding the shadow details rendered by a new $5000 PDP w/o being required to have an ISF calibration.
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post #557 of 30646 Old 06-23-2008, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FocusedOne View Post

After hearing somebody as reputable as UMR weigh in on the matter, it makes me wonder how the break-in disc/method ever got so popular. If the most respected calibrator on this entire message board thinks the break-in settings are bogus, what am I to believe?

It almost seems to me that the recommended break-in settings should be prefaced with the information that several/many respected AVS-affiliated calibrators do not recommend them.

Given UMR's recent feedback, I'm starting to doubt the necessity to use a break-in disk at all. However, FocusedOne, are you sure that "several/many" calibrators on this forum have recommend not to do this? I only remember UMR weighing in on this.
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post #558 of 30646 Old 06-23-2008, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by optivity View Post

Hopefully your $100,000 automobile runs well from day (1) when you drive it off the lot. I expect the same level of performance regarding the shadow details rendered by a new $5000 PDP w/o being required to have an ISF calibration.

Actually a new car will run well when brand new, but it will run even better after an initial break-in period and then a good tune up .... you know, kinda like a new plasma.

I use very expensive high-performance chromatography equipment for the chemical analysis of medicinal plants, and to keep those very high tech instruments running at, or near, perfect performance they much periodically be calibrated. It's just a fact of life .... no matter how much the equipment costs.
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post #559 of 30646 Old 06-23-2008, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by optivity View Post

True enough, so what is the verdict regarding the shadow details for the 5X deeper black 9Gs, are they being "crushed" or not?

I think we should stick to your original question. One thing I'd like to know
since I recall you said you own a Pro-150FD (Like I did)... do you find your
current 8G set crushes blacks? I can tell that miine didn't for the most part,
**BUT** there are exceptions which I think should be of interest to the
folks with 6020's and such.

Things like DRE, Black Level Enhancement, and some other options (can't
remember right now as I am at work ) would introduce crush, especially
on HD cable feeds. Also, certain modes (I think standard or something like
that would also introduce crush). Being that the 6020 users are unable to
adjust a lot of these things that an 8G person would, it could very well be of
concern. I wonder if anyone thought of that?
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post #560 of 30646 Old 06-23-2008, 01:13 PM
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Thanks everyone for your help and advice about my break-in questions.

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post #561 of 30646 Old 06-23-2008, 01:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nambit View Post

I think we should stick to your original question. One thing I'd like to know
since I recall you said you own a Pro-150FD (Like I did)... do you find your
current 8G set crushes blacks? I can tell that miine didn't for the most part,
**BUT** there are exceptions which I think should be of interest to the
folks with 6020's and such.

Things like DRE, Black Level Enhancement, and some other options (can't
remember right now as I am at work ) would introduce crush, especially
on HD cable feeds. Also, certain modes (I think standard or something like
that would also introduce crush). Being that the 6020 users are unable to
adjust a lot of these things that an 8G person would, it could very well be of
concern. I wonder if anyone thought of that?

My PRO-150FD seems to do a good job rendering shadow details & I prefer using DRE=Low with the Pure A/V selection. Turning the contrast setting down too much seems to enhance black crush more than anything else.
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post #562 of 30646 Old 06-23-2008, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

I will say that when I first put the the break-in DVD in there were streaks in the solid colors that appear to be completely gone now.

Do you remember how many hours it took for those steaks to go away?

Did they go away because of your use of the Break-in DVD? Or months later after much regular video content?

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post #563 of 30646 Old 06-23-2008, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aetherhole View Post

Didn't UMR say that he wouldn't personally run the break-in DVD himself? I think that's saying something right there. I don't remember exactly what he said, but he didn't think the constant accelerated break-in period would help. Either way, I've been running it at nights while the family is asleep, watching regular content when I get home from work, and occasionally running the break-in for a couple hours during the day. I've only clocked about 74 hours of break-in time and I think once I hit 100 this week, I will stop and just be a little bit more cautious what is displayed on the television for the next month or so.

If I also had a family, I think I'd run out of patients too. In my case it's easy to just let it run.

UMR also stated that he did not see any difference from sets that have been broke in VS the ones that have been broke in.

At least for me, I have noticed that the picture looks less noisy. If it was because of the break-in DVD or simply because it had been on for a certain amount of hours...I do not know.

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post #564 of 30646 Old 06-23-2008, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebarnman View Post

Do you remember how many hours it took for those steaks to go away?

Did they go away because of your use of the Break-in DVD? Or months later after much regular video content?

This is my third plasma. The first two I ran Discovery channel at less than 59% contrast, brightness, etc. for the first 100 hours maybe. Then I watched as I normally do but never stayed on a channel with static images for very long. In the beginning I would often see IR once I was ready to turn the display off. I would run something full screen for maybe a 1/2 hour and the IR would be gone. The TV I just sold had no IR or BI after two years. I became pretty careless the last year or so and didn't pay attention to static images, etc.

About the break-in dvd: the streaks went away during the 145-150 hours I was runing the dvd at break-in settings. I don't know if it helps but it won't hurt, IMO, if the break in settings are used for only break-in. It seems logical that the acceleration process would mitigate the chances of making an "rookie" mistake if the directions are followed. Now that I'm done with the break-in dvd I will use settings at less than 50% for awhile and often just wash the screen with programing that fills the screen.
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post #565 of 30646 Old 06-23-2008, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlarsen462 View Post

Does anyone know whether D-Nice or another reputable individual will be releasing some reference settings for the 151FD any time soon?

i think he's getting a pro111 this week. so should be a little more time to break it in and then get a review and settings for the Elites too. guessing the middle to end of next week but wait to hear from him to be certain.

D nice has posted his 8 page pdf review today on the 6020 in post #2 of the 9G general thread.

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post #566 of 30646 Old 06-23-2008, 03:09 PM
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D-Nice review of the 6020 has been posted for those that have been waiting........

Mike
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post #567 of 30646 Old 06-23-2008, 03:56 PM
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had any of you 9G owners previously mentioned that the inputs can now be named? thats one little trick that Pioneer should have allowed several gens before.

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post #568 of 30646 Old 06-23-2008, 04:00 PM
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The D-Nice 6020 review: To all of those concerned about the break in DVD....notice the line item about the resulst of the 150 hr. break-in. Unless I'm mistaken D uses the break in dvd and settings.
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post #569 of 30646 Old 06-23-2008, 05:54 PM
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Question:

What kind of a job does the WIDE stretch mode does on a SD signal? The manual talks about a progressive stretching on the sides, does the center remains quite ok aspect ratio wise? Bottom line, is it watchable at all?
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post #570 of 30646 Old 06-23-2008, 05:58 PM
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I ordered my 111 today from Value Electronics. I spoke with John who said that Pioneer "releases" these usually in the third week of the month, so I'm looking at a late July delivery (I literally live 10 miles within the 200 mile requirement). Anyone have any insight on what John meant by released? Hopefully I'll get it a earlier, but my Sammy 4665 LCD is fine for the time being...gotta love upgradities!

HD DVD - 60
Blu-Ray - Lost Count
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Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

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Pioneer Elite , Plasma Hdtv , Pioneer Elite 50 Inch Elite Plasma Hdtv Pro111fd
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