The Official Pioneer 9G Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 235 - AVS Forum
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post #7021 of 30480 Old 10-22-2008, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baddgsx View Post

Thanx Progprog , Is it me or does this plasma get better looking as it gets more broken in. I watched some planet earth tonight and for some reason the images have more depth than 2 weeks ago. Colors seem more vibrant aswell.

I don't know about your panel, but mine, and as per reports here on AVS, the black levels seems to get better after the intial break in period.

So to answer your question, yes, it does get better with time
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post #7022 of 30480 Old 10-22-2008, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCJ View Post

The last couple of days on my 151 I noticed a white streaking line on top of the picture (see attached photo). It seems to appear on commercials and happened on ESPN HD during commercial and lasted several seconds when the football game reappeared.

Has anyone seen this on their sets?

Yeah, with Directv and only with some channels, I forget which ones. It happens with my 32" Panny plasma also in addition to the 151. It's the broadcast...
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post #7023 of 30480 Old 10-22-2008, 10:28 PM
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Interesting observation by Ken regarding the ISFccc vs pure. Wonder if Eliab is going to come to the same conclusion. Does calibrated ISFccc different from calibrated Pure?
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post #7024 of 30480 Old 10-22-2008, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanaticalism View Post

It's an overscan issue. That is why you don't see it on all the channels.

Is a "vertical interval" issue...undescanning the signal to a certain degree...

-THTS
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post #7025 of 30480 Old 10-23-2008, 04:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

A couple suggestions: First, I'd try moving that filter (that is currently between the STB and the TV) to the incoming line. There isn't anything wrong with putting a high-quality filter on the main line. Second, make sure there is a grounding block on the incoming line. (This is important just for safety anyway.) Because cable companies are so sloppy in their installations, the grounding lines always seem to look messy and many people remove them, unaware that it's an important safety precaution. Here's what it typically looks like, and you need to make sure a ground line goes from that screw out to your grounding rods.

Interesting event: I put my filter to the incoming line, and eventually found that I lost some HD channels. They came back but I then lost others last night (about 6). This AM one was back but unstable; I took off the filter and all stations came back and seem stable. There was about a 10-minute gap between, so there may have been a correction of some kind on the other end. I'll check this again.
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post #7026 of 30480 Old 10-23-2008, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCJ
The last couple of days on my 151 I noticed a white streaking line on top of the picture (see attached photo). It seems to appear on commercials and happened on ESPN HD during commercial and lasted several seconds when the football game reappeared.

Has anyone seen this on their sets?

Yeah, with Directv and only with some channels, I forget which ones. It happens with my 32" Panny plasma also in addition to the 151. It's the broadcast...

Thanks to all that have responded. The white line streaking (on commercials) appears to only happen on programs broadcast in 720P. Haven't seen it on programs broadcast in 1080i.

It's no big deal but nice to know what was causing the streaking.
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post #7027 of 30480 Old 10-23-2008, 10:44 AM
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I'm hoping this may be the best place to post my question. SInce my concern is getting the best pic from the Elite, I'm thinking this may be the best place.

First of all, I recently purchased the 151FD and love it. Nice upgrade from the 60XBR1 I had prior.

I have an Anthem AVM50/MCA50 which has the Genum scaler (which cannot be bypassed) and I'm thinking of selling it, but wonder if I would be making a mistake.

My thoughts are that since the Kuro is such a fantastic display, do I really need the Anthem scaler when most of what I watch is HD and bluray?

Also, I have a seperate two channel system integrated with my HT, so I don't need the Anthem to listen to music either as the Anthem only runs the center and a pair of rear speakers.

I'm thinking of selling the Anthem units and buying a less expensive receiver, perhaps the Pioneer Elite SC-05 but again, wonder if I would regret losing the Genum.

Any thoughts?

Mark

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - - Stephen Roberts
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post #7028 of 30480 Old 10-23-2008, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yatchaks View Post

I'm hoping this may be the best place to post my question. SInce my concern is getting the best pic from the Elite, I'm thinking this may be the best place.

First of all, I recently purchased the 151FD and love it. Nice upgrade from the 60XBR1 I had prior.

I have an Anthem AVM50/MCA50 which has the Genum scaler (which cannot be bypassed) and I'm thinking of selling it, but wonder if I would be making a mistake.

My thoughts are that since the Kuro is such a fantastic display, do I really need the Anthem scaler when most of what I watch is HD and bluray?

Also, I have a seperate two channel system integrated with my HT, so I don't need the Anthem to listen to music either as the Anthem only runs the center and a pair of rear speakers.

I'm thinking of selling the Anthem units and buying a less expensive receiver, perhaps the Pioneer Elite MC-05 but again, wonder if I would regret losing the Genum.

Any thoughts?

Mark

Whether you want the VP capabilities of the Anthem is more dependent on your sources than your display. If you have sources that you feel are improved by Genum processing, then that's its function. If it doesn't add anything (and I doubt it would with Blu-Ray), it probably doesn't have a place in your system anymore.

For its selling price, you could indeed get a seven-channel receiver that would probably add more useful capabilities.

P.S. I happen to love Anthem amps, so I'd keep the MCA50 and get a pre-pro!
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post #7029 of 30480 Old 10-23-2008, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yatchaks View Post

I'm hoping this may be the best place to post my question. SInce my concern is getting the best pic from the Elite, I'm thinking this may be the best place.

First of all, I recently purchased the 151FD and love it. Nice upgrade from the 60XBR1 I had prior.

I have an Anthem AVM50/MCA50 which has the Genum scaler (which cannot be bypassed) and I'm thinking of selling it, but wonder if I would be making a mistake.

My thoughts are that since the Kuro is such a fantastic display, do I really need the Anthem scaler when most of what I watch is HD and bluray?

Also, I have a seperate two channel system integrated with my HT, so I don't need the Anthem to listen to music either as the Anthem only runs the center and a pair of rear speakers.

I'm thinking of selling the Anthem units and buying a less expensive receiver, perhaps the Pioneer Elite MC-05 but again, wonder if I would regret losing the Genum.

Any thoughts?

Mark

My unprofessional opinion is that it would add value in cases for when your source is not 1080P. I would personally keep it since there are quite a good amount of non-1080P sources today. Think about the times when you watch DVDs, Standard Definition channels, and even 1080i or 720P high definition TV channels.

For the above reasons, I am considering Denon 5308CI, which has Realta.
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post #7030 of 30480 Old 10-23-2008, 02:26 PM
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I posted this in the 141 thread, I would like people's insight on this please!

I think the horizontal uneveness was less in the beginning and became more apparent later on. Now I have a theory on this, so please here me out.

I think that these displays phosphors age at different speeds, so for some phosphors age faster hence them looking darker, and the slower ones appear lighter, hence the uneven brightness. Some people eyes are more sensitive to this then others.

Now the good news!! I saw a pro111 about three months ago at a Tweeter, it was brand new and had been put up on display with a few weeks of me viewing it, it had HORRIBLE horizontal uneveness! Fast forward to last week, I went to check out the tv to compare to the one I have at home and to my surprise it was about 90% better! Obviously the tv is being run alot, everyday, so the uneveness becomes less noticable as time goes on.

This theory is further supported by the 1150 I have in my house too, it currently used everyday, treated like the old crt it replaced and it now has no horizontal uneveness, and I remember it have a little when new. All I can hope is that it lessens overtime, because I didn't want to go through the hassle to exchange for another one if they all have it to begin with to certain degrees, I hope this helps!

Thoughts?
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post #7031 of 30480 Old 10-23-2008, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackvette94 View Post

I posted this in the 141 thread, I would like people's insight on this please!

I think the horizontal uneveness was less in the beginning and became more apparent later on. Now I have a theory on this, so please here me out.

I think that these displays phosphors age at different speeds, so for some phosphors age faster hence them looking darker, and the slower ones appear lighter, hence the uneven brightness. Some people eyes are more sensitive to this then others.

Now the good news!! I saw a pro111 about three months ago at a Tweeter, it was brand new and had been put up on display with a few weeks of me viewing it, it had HORRIBLE horizontal uneveness! Fast forward to last week, I went to check out the tv to compare to the one I have at home and to my surprise it was about 90% better! Obviously the tv is being run alot, everyday, so the uneveness becomes less noticable as time goes on.

This theory is further supported by the 1150 I have in my house too, it currently used everyday, treated like the old crt it replaced and it now has no horizontal uneveness, and I remember it have a little when new. All I can hope is that it lessens overtime, because I didn't want to go through the hassle to exchange for another one if they all have it to begin with to certain degrees, I hope this helps!

Thoughts?

This observation has been made numerous times in these threads. The Kuros seem to improve in general with age. I'm sure at some point, though, old age and negatives will set in but I hope not for a long time.

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post #7032 of 30480 Old 10-23-2008, 02:38 PM
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I'm still debating between the 151 and 141. One of the features missing on the monitor models is the color sensor. Is the color sensor feature desirable and if so in what instances?

"Plasma TV ... so called because in order to afford one, you're going to have to sell your blood." -- Ed Helms, The Daily Show.
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post #7033 of 30480 Old 10-23-2008, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russwong View Post

Interesting observation by Ken regarding the ISFccc vs pure. Wonder if Eliab is going to come to the same conclusion. Does calibrated ISFccc different from calibrated Pure?

Hey Russ. Yes, it's been reported that the ISFccc mode does indeed produce a higher output for similar settings in Pure mode. Peak values are considerably higher, but importantly, without crushing whites! We are not talking about subtle differences either.
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post #7034 of 30480 Old 10-23-2008, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Hey Russ. Yes, it's been reported that the ISFccc mode does indeed produce a higher output for similar settings in Pure mode. Peak values are considerably higher, but importantly, without crushing whites! We are not talking about subtle differences either.

When you say, "it has been reported", has someone on D-NICE's level reported this? My calibrator with JD Labs here in the Boston area says the difference is a myth that has been debunked through benchtesting.
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post #7035 of 30480 Old 10-23-2008, 05:00 PM
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Go to ControlCal's forum and you'll find users finding the same thing. I have no idea how someone couldn't notice the difference. This has nothing whatever to do with being an ISF tech or not, the difference is there. As I said, it is far from subtle. If you think about it, what would be the point of this mode if it produced no visible difference? Just to 'lock out' settings? That sure wouldn't sell it to me.

But I'll say this, if you don't use the software properly, you might 'think' you've downloaded the values to the display when in fact you haven't.
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post #7036 of 30480 Old 10-23-2008, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by cwest54 View Post

When you say, "it has been reported", has someone on D-NICE's level reported this? My calibrator with JD Labs here in the Boston area says the difference is a myth that has been debunked through benchtesting.

On D-Nice's level... Or it was D-Nice himself (it was).
Most everyone has noticed this difference.

What is dead can never die. Long live my 151!
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post #7037 of 30480 Old 10-23-2008, 05:22 PM
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So exactly how can you tell that your values have been downloaded to the display properly then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Go to ControlCal's forum and you'll find users finding the same thing. I have no idea how someone couldn't notice the difference. This has nothing whatever to do with being an ISF tech or not, the difference is there. As I said, it is far from subtle. If you think about it, what would be the point of this mode if it produced no visible difference? Just to 'lock out' settings? That sure wouldn't sell it to me.

But I'll say this, if you don't use the software properly, you might 'think' you've downloaded the values to the display when in fact you haven't.

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post #7038 of 30480 Old 10-23-2008, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Hey Russ. Yes, it's been reported that the ISFccc mode does indeed produce a higher output for similar settings in Pure mode. Peak values are considerably higher, but importantly, without crushing whites! We are not talking about subtle differences either.

Do you notice any difference in buzz with the higher output?
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post #7039 of 30480 Old 10-23-2008, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by coltsfreak18 View Post

On D-Nice's level... Or it was D-Nice himself (it was).
Most everyone has noticed this difference.

Shame on me for not looking at D-Nice's calibration settings thread. I see he has posts for ISF.
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post #7040 of 30480 Old 10-23-2008, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Do you notice any difference in buzz with the higher output?

Over the past couple nights I loaded D-Nice's ISF settings for Day, Night, and Auto into my 151. So far I haven't noticed any difference in buzz level.

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post #7041 of 30480 Old 10-23-2008, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

Over the past couple nights I loaded D-Nice's ISF settings for Day, Night, and Auto into my 151. So far I haven't noticed any difference in buzz level.

I saw in your "first impression" post after getting ControlCAL and activating the isf modes. You didn't seem as impressed as some others have been. You still consider the difference more subtle than night-and-day?
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post #7042 of 30480 Old 10-23-2008, 06:33 PM
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David Abrams calibrated my 151fd on wednesday.Isf night for 6500-6525k and day for b&w movies around 5400k.Mine is mostly dark room only and is set at 34.8flt.I am trying to get used to these new modes and settings.They sure does have more pop than pure settings of D-Nice i had earlier(31.2 flt).Also colours appear more vivid.It took around 2:30 hours for the full calibration.
It definitely looks to me worth it to have isf modes activated but it is definitely taking me time to adjust for these new settings.Overall a positive and pleasing experience
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post #7043 of 30480 Old 10-23-2008, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

I saw in your "first impression" post after getting ControlCAL and activating the isf modes. You didn't seem as impressed as some others have been. You still consider the difference more subtle than night-and-day?

The difference between Pure and ISF Night, at least in my case, is not night and day, but certainly a step in the right direction. ISF Day, however, is certainly much brighter.

After some more viewing, at this point I'm prefering ISF Night for BD viewing, and ISF Auto (based on ISF Day settings) for OTA HD viewing.

In any case, it was worth it to activate the ISF modes and expect it will only improve once D-Nice posts his updated ISF settings for the 151 and ultimately once I get a professional calibration.

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post #7044 of 30480 Old 10-23-2008, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Do you notice any difference in buzz with the higher output?

Prop, no, no difference at all. I was a bit surprised by this. In fact I hear no difference in buzz with any setting other than Power Save 2. However I've found the buzz has either gotten better or I'm simply getting used to it.

It was never what I'd call objectionable.
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post #7045 of 30480 Old 10-23-2008, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixxer1 View Post

So exactly how can you tell that your values have been downloaded to the display properly then?

There is a button in the software called 'refresh'. That tells the display to spit back all of its settings to the software. You can then watch as the settings are rapidly loaded into the software. That's your assurance that all went well.
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post #7046 of 30480 Old 10-23-2008, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subhash_i View Post

David Abrams calibrated my 151fd on wednesday.Isf night for 6500-6525k and day for b&w movies around 5400k.Mine is mostly dark room only and is set at 34.8flt.I am trying to get used to these new modes and settings.They sure does have more pop than pure settings of D-Nice i had earlier(31.2 flt).Also colours appear more vivid.It took around 2:30 hours for the full calibration.
It definitely looks to me worth it to have isf modes activated but it is definitely taking me time to adjust for these new settings.Overall a positive and pleasing experience

Thank you for your report...

subhash_i, can you follow the instructions HERE and Post a screen cap/pic?

Need to find a Professional Calibrator? Click Here to PM me with your Display & City

Calibrator List - Pioneer ISFccc Interface

Calibration Reports - Pioneer

 

ControlCAL™
Designed by Calibrators for Calibrators™

No need to fumble through the Display's Menu with its Remote Control™

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post #7047 of 30480 Old 10-23-2008, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subhash_i View Post

David Abrams calibrated my 151fd on wednesday.

Thanks for your calibration report. I've included it in the flat panel (Post#2) list that's linked at the bottom of my post.
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post #7048 of 30480 Old 10-23-2008, 08:45 PM
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Hi guys, this is my first post on here, so please bear with me. I just bought a new PRO-111FD and the picture quality is awesome. But I have noticed two things that keep bothering me and I don't know if they are normal or if I am just being paranoid as I shelled-out 4k for this thing.

First: During some scenes that are in the blue or light tan/off white spectrum, I swear I can see really light, almost transparent, lines on the screen. They are very faint, but I swear I can see them. I especially notice them on sky scenes. I first saw them watching "Iron Man" on Blu-Ray. I can see them sometimes when watching cable on my Satellite too. Has anyone else seem this, or am I just crazy?

Second: When the TV is on but there is nothing playing on the screen, its full black, it looks as though there is some light being emitted onto the screen along the bottom frame. Again, it's faint, and its not a solid line of anything, but it is noticeably lighter, like kind of cloudy but just along the bottom of the screen. When I am watching a dark scene and using the whole panel, no bars on the side, I swear that dark scene looks lighter along the bottom where I noticed this when the screen is off. Does the panel power itself from the bottom of the screen, and is this normal, or is this something I should be worried about?

Like I said, I might just be paranoid, so I figured I'd ask here because I know you guys will have the answer.

Thanks!
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post #7049 of 30480 Old 10-23-2008, 09:53 PM
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Is it brand new?
How many hours (rough guess) do you have on it?
How did you break it in?

It seems as though you may be seeing streaking and blotching. We are aware of this. I wouldn't be too concerned, as it does disipate over time. Not to mention, the overall PQ (believe this or not) gets better after the first 500hrs!

You will notice that overall uniformity becomes parallel, and the blacks become richer.

Just give the panel some time. I am sure you have some sort of 30 day return on it, yes? If so, give it the 30 days. If you don't see any improvement, return, and get yourself another one.

Either way, congratulations on purchasing the best flat panel in the business.

I hope you have a nice surround sound system to go with it .
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post #7050 of 30480 Old 10-23-2008, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurohelp View Post

First: During some scenes that are in the blue or light tan/off white spectrum, I swear I can see really light, almost transparent, lines on the screen. They are very faint, but I swear I can see them. I especially notice them on sky scenes. I first saw them watching "Iron Man" on Blu-Ray. I can see them sometimes when watching cable on my Satellite too. Has anyone else seem this, or am I just crazy?
Thanks!

How close are you sitting?
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