The Official Pioneer 9G Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 502 - AVS Forum
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post #15031 of 30532 Old 04-05-2009, 02:44 PM
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can anyone recommend a high quality microfiber cloth to clean the plasma screen. Everyone uses the tern quality microfiber but don't give specific brand information, any help will be appreciated.

when you always do what you've alway done, you always get what you always got.
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post #15032 of 30532 Old 04-05-2009, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alettiere View Post

Yes. Horizontal streaks are what you would see whenever a camera pans vertically during bright scenes. But based on the pictures you posted, that's definitely not DSE, because it's even across the entire screen.

I also agree that it's just merely the structure. I don't think it's a flaw, although I definitely don't see that on my set from up close. I see dithering, but that's just the nature of plasma technology in general.

If you don't see anything from normal viewing distance during regular viewing, then I wouldn't worry about it.

I am convinced it is not normal. All the whites/greys and greens have visible lines(alternate white/light color). Pretty much even throughout the screen. The reds and blues rarely is it visible but did see a few with PS3 input.

While these lines are less noticable the farther away, they can easily be annoying. FWIW, I tried dvd player with AV cable, PS3 with 2 different HDMI cables on HDMI input 4 and 7 as well as the thumbdrive

I put in a dvd and blu-ray into the PS3...I reset the input from D-nice's settings to movie mode for pics and viewing. I tried things to make it not an issue but there is no way I could let this go, in some scenes it really took away from the overall image and most it did not(if 5-25% of time or less I am going to see it, no thanks either no new TV or get replacement)

The pics I included try to show the contrast..I think the PS3 screen is the most obvious with the issue...areas where there is a greater color grade the lines are lost but in area where there is more white or grey shade you see lines

I wish I could show a larger image at 100% size...it is worse than what you see, esp the MPAA ratings screen when I paused it there were alternating lines 100% visible even throughout the screen except where there was text

I went back to BB(I was real nice and had dvd/usb drive with pics of problem just in case they needed to see the issue but seemly said Pioneers just do not have issues) and they were terrific, they found a store with another new 111FD and will swap out the sets...but it could take them 10-14days
LL
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post #15033 of 30532 Old 04-05-2009, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James W. Johnson View Post

Somebody posted this article in another thread, every single plasma owner should read it in full, its a great write up.

Anybody reading this post, this is homework I am handing out, read this article IN FULL.........,
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pi...0-%20FINAL.pdf


Excellent article. Maybe the moderator should make it a "sticky".
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post #15034 of 30532 Old 04-05-2009, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newriver99 View Post

Tommorrow I pick up my new Elite 111. What should I do after getting it home and unboxing it? Is there some firmware updating to be done? I plan on using the break in images for 150 hours. I do not plan to watch anything for the entire time. My HD satelite will be hooked up on Friday so that will help me from wanting to watch any tv programs.
Any suggestions will be helpful.

I'd suggest you thoroughly research that break-in you plan on doing to make sure it's really right for your situation. It's most likely not. Yes, there is a firmware update, but it only addresses Home Media Gallery and internal tuner issues, so it's not critical at all. I don't happen to use either of those features (you won't be using the internal tuners either, from what you say), so I haven't even bothered to update mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alanl715 View Post

purchase the extended warranty for another 3 years would b a help!
alan

In the interest of full disclosure, alan is a service guy.....100% of the sets he sees have problems. So his perspective might be just a wee bit skewed.
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post #15035 of 30532 Old 04-05-2009, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keithhr View Post

can anyone recommend a high quality microfiber cloth to clean the plasma screen. Everyone uses the tern quality microfiber but don't give specific brand information, any help will be appreciated.

You can use the one that came with the set if you need to actually clean something off of it. For dust, it's better to just use a duster so that you're not "wiping" the screen.
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post #15036 of 30532 Old 04-05-2009, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Boden View Post

Excellent article. Maybe the moderator should make it a "sticky".

I agree, I just wish they had said if they tested a pioneer set and which one. I understand not telling your competitor as they were not trying to trash anyone but to educate the public.

Wow, they left a game menu for 48hrs and then used basically a video pattern test on the elite settings I guess to "clean" the screen and IR/BI went from 100% there to 100% not noticable/not seen
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post #15037 of 30532 Old 04-05-2009, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

You can use the one that came with the set if you need to actually clean something off of it. For dust, it's better to just use a duster so that you're not "wiping" the screen.

those microfibers get dirty fast as the bezel is a magnet for dust...I bet an microfiber intend to clean eyeglasses , would be fine.

I would be real afraid to use anything on the screen at all.

I would think a nice sticky on brands and safe cleaning method for these plasma sets would be nice from one of the gurus.
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post #15038 of 30532 Old 04-05-2009, 03:05 PM
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After reading that article and surmissing the "break-in" procedures found on these forums, it would seem that what ccotenj mentioned (among others) that the break-in period get's the plasmas to a pre-defined "aged" level, where the settings would be consistent through a wide variety of sets.

Having just ordered a 111-fd, I won't be running a "break-in" period and will have the set professionally calibrated when it reaches it's final home as I'm moving in a few months.
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post #15039 of 30532 Old 04-05-2009, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nealh View Post

those microfibers get dirty fast as the bezel is a magnet for dust...I bet an microfiber intend to clean eyeglasses , would be fine.

I would be real afraid to use anything on the screen at all.

I would think a nice sticky on brands and safe cleaning method for these plasma sets would be nice from one of the gurus.


These are all I use on my Kuro. ,

http://photodon.com/mm5/merchant.mvc...tegory_Code=MF
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post #15040 of 30532 Old 04-05-2009, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nealh View Post

I am convinced it is not normal. All the whites/greys and greens have visible lines(alternate white/light color). Pretty much even throughout the screen. The reds and blues rarely is it visible but did see a few with PS3 input.

While these lines are less noticable the farther away, they can easily be annoying. FWIW, I tried dvd player with AV cable, PS3 with 2 different HDMI cables on HDMI input 4 and 7 as well as the thumbdrive

I put in a dvd and blu-ray into the PS3...I reset the input from D-nice's settings to movie mode for pics and viewing. I tried things to make it not an issue but there is no way I could let this go, in some scenes it really took away from the overall image and most it did not(if 5-25% of time or less I am going to see it, no thanks either no new TV or get replacement)

The pics I included try to show the contrast..I think the PS3 screen is the most obvious with the issue...areas where there is a greater color grade the lines are lost but in area where there is more white or grey shade you see lines

I wish I could show a larger image at 100% size...it is worse than what you see, esp the MPAA ratings screen when I paused it there were alternating lines 100% visible even throughout the screen except where there was text

I went back to BB(I was real nice and had dvd/usb drive with pics of problem just in case they needed to see the issue but seemly said Pioneers just do not have issues) and they were terrific, they found a store with another new 111FD and will swap out the sets...but it could take them 10-14days

I stand corrected (I think the last picture is the most convincing)--I'm glad you tested things with normal material and that BB is taking care of you! (the 30 day return policy is pretty reassuring).
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post #15041 of 30532 Old 04-05-2009, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nealh View Post

those microfibers get dirty fast as the bezel is a magnet for dust...I bet an microfiber intend to clean eyeglasses , would be fine.

I would be real afraid to use anything on the screen at all.

I would think a nice sticky on brands and safe cleaning method for these plasma sets would be nice from one of the gurus.

Hi, Nealh:
I'm no guru but I did post some links to microfiber towel information.

I tend to favor the "Yo Steve" brand--he's a good guy and the towels have been first rate. He also sells a small version of the towel as well.
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post #15042 of 30532 Old 04-05-2009, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nealh View Post

those microfibers get dirty fast as the bezel is a magnet for dust...I bet an microfiber intend to clean eyeglasses , would be fine.

I would be real afraid to use anything on the screen at all.

I would think a nice sticky on brands and safe cleaning method for these plasma sets would be nice from one of the gurus.

Again, I wouldn't try to use a cloth for dust. I use a faux-feather duster on the whole set- bezel, stand, screen, back..... This avoids any scratching, pressure-contact with the surfaces, and it actually just works better. (A cloth tends to push dust around more than pick it up.)
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post #15043 of 30532 Old 04-05-2009, 05:26 PM
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[quote=progprog;16202903]I'd suggest you thoroughly research that break-in you plan on doing to make sure it's really right for your situation. It's most likely not.

Why do you say this? My situation is no different than anyone else who buys a new tv. They want to make sure that they are starting out right. It appears that Dnice has given these instructions for people to follow so that they will start out on the right foot.
Please elborate on why I should not follow his instruction on the breakin for 150 hours.
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post #15044 of 30532 Old 04-05-2009, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Again, I wouldn't try to use a cloth for dust. I use a faux-feather duster on the whole set- bezel, stand, screen, back..... This avoids any scratching, pressure-contact with the surfaces, and it actually just works better. (A cloth tends to push dust around more than pick it up.)


Good advice. I find that the Swiffer duster works reasonably well.
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post #15045 of 30532 Old 04-05-2009, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newriver99 View Post

Why do you say this? My situation is no different than anyone else who buys a new tv. They want to make sure that they are starting out right. It appears that Dnice has given these instructions for people to follow so that they will start out on the right foot.
Please elborate on why I should not follow his instruction on the breakin for 150 hours.

I meant no offense- I'm sure you're just like anybody else who wants to take proper care of your new TV and get the best life & performance out of it.

But D-Nice's break-in instructions have nothing to do with starting out on the right foot. His procedure is intended for one very specific purpose only: if you intend to use his exact settings, in an attempt to replicate the calibration results he got with his TV, he suggests that your pre-calibration "break-in" mirror his exactly. I.e., you follow the same procedure he did. This is the only purpose of that procedure, and he himself makes that clear.

What I meant is that the vast majority of people who buy a new Pioneer Kuro do not use those particular settings. Some do go through that process, use those settings, and are happy with the end result, some do it and are not happy. But most never bother.

If you intend to use the TV's default AV settings, calibrate it yourself or to your own tastes, or have it professionally calibrated, there is no advantage to using that specific break-in that D-Nice prescribes for use with his settings.

This is not to say that you shouldn't put ~100-200 hrs of use on it before calibration. The pixels "settle" the most during that time and your settings will be more stable, presumably, if you wait. My calibrator recommended 100hrs, and doesn't believe it matters at all what the content of those hours is.
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post #15046 of 30532 Old 04-05-2009, 06:11 PM
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Can you mount the 5020 from the ceiling and if so how?
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post #15047 of 30532 Old 04-05-2009, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmroth View Post

Can you mount the 5020 from the ceiling and if so how?

Two words: ceiling mount. I'm sure a number of manufacturers make ceiling mounts; here is the Peerless page for them.
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post #15048 of 30532 Old 04-05-2009, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Two words: ceiling mount. I'm sure a number of manufacturers make ceiling mounts; here is the Peerless page for them.

I looked into those when I was getting ready to purchase a Kuro. It introduced more problems then it solved for my tentative location and I landed up reorienting my viewing to an adjacent wall and using a floor stand.

"Plasma TV ... so called because in order to afford one, you're going to have to sell your blood." -- Ed Helms, The Daily Show.
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post #15049 of 30532 Old 04-05-2009, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xortam View Post

I looked into those when I was getting ready to purchase a Kuro. It introduced more problems then it solved for my tentative location and I landed up reorienting my viewing to an adjacent wall and using a floor stand.

Yeah, I can't really imagine a ceiling mount would be able to get the TV down at the level I like. Without looking very awkward, anyway. But maybe he likes it up high or has some weird room configuration that necessitates it.
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post #15050 of 30532 Old 04-05-2009, 07:03 PM
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A floor stand will let you put it at any height up to six feet (depending on the stand). You can also relocate the stand or alter the height if you change your mind. Nice if you figure out a good way to place one.

"Plasma TV ... so called because in order to afford one, you're going to have to sell your blood." -- Ed Helms, The Daily Show.
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post #15051 of 30532 Old 04-05-2009, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvp2005fan View Post

I stand corrected (I think the last picture is the most convincing)--I'm glad you tested things with normal material and that BB is taking care of you! (the 30 day return policy is pretty reassuring).

Last one was the worst to you...it really looks worse than posted as it show the line pattern throughtout the screen but it was hard to get a good picture . I thought the PS3 menu and esp. the Columbia open credit scene with the Pegasus showed the blue/white alternating in the sky really well. I figured most would complain about that given all the scenes with blue skies.

anyway, I was very pleased how I was treated at BB...now I just hope I get a good TV..this "bad" one has a normal buzz(what I hear was mostly in the back with very little noise radiating forward) but a bad panel for sure for visuals.

If the Elite's are really tested for any period of time, I would assume Pioneer would test colors in a fashion that we see with Break-in slides..it would take 10min to verify the colors and screen appearance and they would have thrown this one in the pile for spare parts.

Cant see how it could be missed....oh well, all electronics can have poor examples.
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post #15052 of 30532 Old 04-05-2009, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Yeah, I can't really imagine a ceiling mount would be able to get the TV down at the level I like. Without looking very awkward, anyway. But maybe he likes it up high or has some weird room configuration that necessitates it.

maybe he wants to watch lying o nthe floor or in bed????
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post #15053 of 30532 Old 04-05-2009, 09:11 PM
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He is a she....

The room has one blank 15' long empty wall for the couch. The opposite wall has a fireplace right in the middle of the room with a cut out above for the old box tv. So this is why I thought a ceiling mount may work... any ideas?

Below is the layout of the room


Window Door
c ------------- ---
o ------------- wall
u -------------- fireplace
c ------------- & cut out
h -------------- wall

KITCHEN
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post #15054 of 30532 Old 04-05-2009, 09:21 PM
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I knew somebody would get caught again soon by assuming the poster was male. Women may be in the minority here but one shouldn't assume the poster's gender.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmroth View Post

He is a she....

The room has one blank 15' long empty wall for the couch. The opposite wall has a fireplace right in the middle of the room with a cut out above for the old box tv. So this is why I thought a ceiling mount may work... any ideas?

Below is the layout of the room


window door
c
o wall
u fireplace
c & cut out
h wall

KITCHEN

Do you use the fireplace?

"Plasma TV ... so called because in order to afford one, you're going to have to sell your blood." -- Ed Helms, The Daily Show.
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post #15055 of 30532 Old 04-05-2009, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmroth View Post

He is a she....

The room has one blank 15' long empty wall for the couch. The opposite wall has a fireplace right in the middle of the room with a cut out above for the old box tv. So this is why I thought a ceiling mount may work... any ideas?

Below is the layout of the room


Window Door
c ------------- ---
o ------------- wall
u -------------- fireplace
c ------------- & cut out
h -------------- wall

KITCHEN

Will the cut out area fit the wall plate of an articulating mount? If so, you could use the mount to bring the television out and tilt it down towards your viewing position to make viewing more comfortable. The great range of adjustments of an articulating mount would also allow you the most flexibility in dealing with this situation (You could turn the television towards the kitchen for instance if you wished to watch in the kitchen).

FWIW (and this is decidedly off topic) I would respectfully suggest trying to avoid sticking the couch close up against that back wall--it's suboptimal for acoustics and will likely leave you too far away from a 50 inch screen for optimum viewing (depending on how large your room it). BTW, that is another advantage of the mount--you can bring your television 2 feet closer to you.
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post #15056 of 30532 Old 04-05-2009, 10:27 PM
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Yes... there are women that enjoy a great viewing experience. I bought my first Pioneer Elite 8 years ago and it still looks good. Although recently something happened to the picture where it caves in at the top and the bottom. I tried to calibrate the lines by hand and was somewhat successful. The Blue line seems to have a glitch somewhere and is throwing everything else off as well.

Hence why I now purchased a 5020.

I think I can make the cut out bigger and then place an articulating arm that can come forward out of the space. Does that sound like a good idea?

Thank you for the info re couch against the wall. I'll make sure to move it.
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post #15057 of 30532 Old 04-05-2009, 10:29 PM
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Is there a certain brand for the articulating mount that is better than another? How do I find a good person to install? Any suggestions?
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post #15058 of 30532 Old 04-05-2009, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newriver99 View Post

Tommorrow I pick up my new Elite 111. What should I do after getting it home and unboxing it? Is there some firmware updating to be done? I plan on using the break in images for 150 hours. I do not plan to watch anything for the entire time. My HD satelite will be hooked up on Friday so that will help me from wanting to watch any tv programs.
Any suggestions will be helpful.


My 111 would turn OFF occasionally when I changed channels, very perturbing. Firmware update fixed it, zero turn offs since.

Scotty
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post #15059 of 30532 Old 04-06-2009, 12:30 AM
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Have had my 111FD for a day now, and so far I'm lovin' it. Mostly been running slides for the recommended break-in, but enjoyed some blu-ray clips here and there also and the picture's simply superb. Just a couple quick questions though.

A.) Is the firmware update necessary? So far my set seems perfect, and I don't want to mess anything up. I read someone's experience about getting buzz AFTER the update, and even though it seems kind of farfetched that'll happen, I'd rather not take my chances for now.. *shrug*

B.) Sue me, but I actually like the automotion soap-opera effect in 120hz LCD's .. are there some settings I can use to duplicate that look? I already turned to 'Smooth' mode rather than 'Advanced' in picture settings, is there anything else I should do to make it more poppy?
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post #15060 of 30532 Old 04-06-2009, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fierzer View Post

Have had my 111FD for a day now, and so far I'm lovin' it. Mostly been running slides for the recommended break-in, but enjoyed some blu-ray clips here and there also and the picture's simply superb. Just a couple quick questions though.

A.) Is the firmware update necessary? So far my set seems perfect, and I don't want to mess anything up. I read someone's experience about getting buzz AFTER the update, and even though it seems kind of farfetched that it'll happen to my set also, I'd rather not take my chances for now.. *shrug*

B.) Sue me, but I actually like the automotion soap-opera effect in 120hz LCD's :P.. are there some settings I can use to duplicate that look? I already turned to 'Smooth' mode rather than 'Advanced' in picture settings, is there anything else I should do to make it more poppy?

A. The update fixes bugs in the Home Media Gallery and internal tuners. If you don't use those features, the update isn't really necessary. I never heard the "buzz after update" story, but knowing a little about the buzz phenomenon, I am extremely skeptical.

B. You seem to be talking about two different things here, so I'm a little confused. First, you describe a motion artifact, but then you say you want it "poppy," which implies something else related to color and contrast. Leaving Pure Cinema on AUTO is the best way to ensure that you'll get a 72Hz refresh rate most often, while SMOOTH is a frame interpolation algorithm. I'm not sure what you're looking for, but one of those is apt to get closest to it if we're talking about motion perception; what exactly do you mean by "poppy?"
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Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

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