The Official Pioneer 9G Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 57 - AVS Forum
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post #1681 of 30650 Old 07-13-2008, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

I am not going to use that type of software with an RS-232 port to adjust those displays. It has been possible in the past to damage the programming in Pioneer plasmas with those ports because they are also used for firmware changes. I have no desire to enter a consumers home and leave him with a non operational display or be unable to calibrate it because the RS-232 port is not accessable due to the displays mounting. I will not be touching a 9G non-Elite unit.

Thanks for amplifying why you aren't calibrating the 9G non-Elite models. I'm clear on it now.

Calibration Resources:

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post #1682 of 30650 Old 07-13-2008, 12:52 PM
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I have this amazing TV but haven't had much time to play around with it.

My wife likes the "torch" mode! On the 1540HD (7th gen), there was such an a/v mode I believe it was called performance but I'm not sure.

Can anyone recommend settings to show a bright and unrealistic picture so I can justify my $7500 purchase to her! Of course I will probably use my own settings or perhaps optimum but I jsut want to show her, yes this TV is as "Bright" as the old one.
lol.


Sport comes close but not enough TORCH! baby!
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post #1683 of 30650 Old 07-13-2008, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

...Using the RS232 port is just like accessing the SM in general......if you do not know what you are doing, you have no damn business accessing the SM in the first place.

Using the RS-232 port is completely different than using a remote. When you use a remote you can see what menu you are in and what value you are changing. When using an RS-232 device it can send any command to the TV that is possible including ones you do not intend.

The way Pioneer has implemented the RS-232 protocal on these displays does not make it a secure method for display adjustment. A false or unintended command can have dire consequences if you get unlucky. Just because you have not had problems does not mean someone with longer cables, software error or a worse connection will not.

W. Jeff Meier


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post #1684 of 30650 Old 07-13-2008, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgeorge78 View Post

I have this amazing TV but haven't had much time to play around with it.

My wife likes the "torch" mode! On the 1540HD (7th gen), there was such an a/v mode I believe it was called performance but I'm not sure.

Can anyone recommend settings to show a bright and unrealistic picture so I can justify my $7500 purchase to her! Of course I will probably use my own settings or perhaps optimum but I jsut want to show her, yes this TV is as "Bright" as the old one.
lol.


Sport comes close but not enough TORCH! baby!

Wow! Sport isn't torch enough?? I think you need to go out and get her her very own LCD.
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post #1685 of 30650 Old 07-13-2008, 01:42 PM
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in the next few weeks are i will be geting my new 6020 aykyo 705 reciever
what i need help in is this what step do i take in bring this all togeter
when i recive my 6020 what beside looking for outer damage what should i do before i sign off on it.
2. when i hook everything up do i first do only the 150-200 burn in with the dvd or can i watch regular tv during the first 200 hours.
3 after the 200 hours of min break in should i then get it calibrated, i have read that you can't do that with the 6020? what other things should be doing in this set up time i am new at this stuff so any and all help would be great
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post #1686 of 30650 Old 07-13-2008, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neoncat View Post

in the next few weeks are i will be geting my new 6020 aykyo 705 reciever
what i need help in is this what step do i take in bring this all togeter
when i recive my 6020 what beside looking for outer damage what should i do before i sign off on it.
2. when i hook everything up do i first do only the 150-200 burn in with the dvd or can i watch regular tv during the first 200 hours.
3 after the 200 hours of min break in should i then get it calibrated, i have read that you can't do that with the 6020? what other things should be doing in this set up time i am new at this stuff so any and all help would be great

1. Check for physical damage and if the delivery guy will stick around long enough, power it up.

2. It's up to you. Personally, I didn't even bother with the "burn in" DVD.

3. The RS-232 back door notwithstanding, the 6020 cannot be properly calibrated. Either use D-Nice's reference settings or pick up a $20 "calibration" DVD/BLR and adjust the contrast/brightness settings yourself. If the backdoor service mode adjustments work out, and you can find a technician willing to do it, you can always get it calibrated later.
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post #1687 of 30650 Old 07-13-2008, 02:29 PM
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in the letter i just posted i should have said that i'm totaly new at this stuff i found out about this site and have used it to make my mind up as to what i should get. but what scares me is all these terms and thing that i read that totaly go over my head. i want to do this right. so that i don't mess up and end up with a pile of junk because i did'nt do something right so please bear with me as i might ask question that seem dumb but i just don't know.
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post #1688 of 30650 Old 07-13-2008, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

Using the RS-232 port is completely different than using a remote. When you use a remote you can see what menu you are in and what value you are changing. When using an RS-232 device it can send any command to the TV that is possible including ones you do not intend.

The way Pioneer has implemented the RS-232 protocal on these displays does not make it a secure method for display adjustment. A false or unintended command can have dire consequences if you get unlucky. Just because you have not had problems does not mean someone with longer cables, software error or a worse connection will not.

umr,

The way that the Display profile will be setup in ControlCal, there is no way one can send erroneous commands to the display. Its not going happen....period. Also, if you actually took the time research what I'm using, you would see that you really only need to use 3 commands with the Display profile:
  • Calibration On (this is how you access the SM without using the "Factory" button on the Factory PDP Remote)
  • A/V Selection (to switch to the preferred A/V for calibration...something you could not do on the 8Gs)
  • Save (save the RGB adjustment changes that one makes per selected A/V mode)

You actually can maneuver and make changes the menus (identical to the 8G menu) with the owner's remote...so your concerns are really mis-guided

Just like I've always done, I would NEVER advise anyone to use an application, technique, tool, etc that would damage their display. Everything I advise, I've used on my own equipment.

Once this new "tool" is available, it will allow any DIY owner to calibrate their own display without the worry of "screwing something up". Of course I will provide offsets to those who don"t want to purchase equipment/software/paper certified tech to calibrate their sets

If you choose not to use this tool (or even get the Factory PDP Remote) and ban 9G non-Elite owners from your services, that's cool with me. However, don't use "fear tactics" on a tool that you are not familiar with nor used.


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post #1689 of 30650 Old 07-13-2008, 03:16 PM
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Thanks for answering my question!

Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

That's what I've been using, connected via component directly to the set.

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post #1690 of 30650 Old 07-13-2008, 03:18 PM
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I have another question for D-Nice.

Should I use the reference settings from the 110 on my new 111FD? Have you had a chance to test out one of the new 111's yet?
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post #1691 of 30650 Old 07-13-2008, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

umr,

The way that the Display profile will be setup in ControlCal, there is no way one can send erroneous commands to the display. Its not going happen....period. Also, if you actually took the time research what I'm using, you would see that you really only need to use 3 commands with the Display profile:
  • Calibration On (this is how you access the SM without using the "Factory" button on the Factory PDP Remote)
  • A/V Selection (to switch to the preferred A/V for calibration...something you could not do on the 8Gs)
  • Save (save the RGB adjustment changes that one makes per selected A/V mode)

You actually can maneuver and make changes the menus (identical to the 8G menu) with the owner's remote...so your concerns are really mis-guided

Just like I've always done, I would NEVER advise anyone to use an application, technique, tool, etc that would damage their display. Everything I advise, I've used on my own equipment.

Once this new "tool" is available, it will allow any DIY owner to calibrate their own display without the worry of "screwing something up". Of course I will provide offsets to those who don"t want to purchase equipment/software/paper certified tech to calibrate their sets

If you choose not to use this tool (or even get the Factory PDP Remote) and ban 9G non-Elite owners from your services, that's cool with me. However, don't use "fear tactics" on a tool that you are not familiar with nor used.

+1.
I think it is like Dahlism said on the official 9Gthread (non-sticky), "it sounds a like any prospective pro ISF calibrator will need some specific knowledge about the 9G Non-elites to do a good calibration anyway".
With all due respect, If the 9G non-elites are able to be properly calibrated, then an ISF certified calibrator should be able to do it IMO. I understand that the way the 9G's must be calibrated differs from most, but the non-elite owners deserve a good calibration also.
But on the flip-side, I would not want anyone in my Television who was not comfortable that they won't mess something up.

wHy So SeRiOus???



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post #1692 of 30650 Old 07-13-2008, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixxer1 View Post

I have another question for D-Nice.

Should I use the reference settings from the 110 on my new 111FD?

No

Quote:


Have you had a chance to test out one of the new 111's yet?

Not yet.


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post #1693 of 30650 Old 07-13-2008, 03:35 PM
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I don't see why people are so defensive. It sounds to me as though HE is not comfortable entering the SM in the same manner that D-Nice has. I believe it is ones right to express opinion, or concern, and make a recommendation based on his own personal knowledge. That is the beauty of a forum, we are all entitled to an opinion.

I'm sure whomever is willing to enter the SM, is comfortable with the form in which you (D-Nice) achieved it. I fail to see how it is a scare tactic, as there is no benefit to him in saying he will not do it. If anything, it is less money in his pocket, no?
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post #1694 of 30650 Old 07-13-2008, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanaticalism View Post

I don't see why people are so defensive. It sounds to me as though HE is not comfortable entering the SM in the same manner that D-Nice has. I believe it is ones right to express opinion, or concern, and make a recommendation based on his own personal knowledge. That is the beauty of a forum, we are all entitled to an opinion.

I'm sure whomever is willing to enter the SM, is comfortable with the form in which you (D-Nice) achieved it. I fail to see how it is a scare tactic, as there is no benefit to him in saying he will not do it. If anything, it is less money in his pocket, no?

I'm not trying to be defensive (if you are implying that I am). I could care less if umr services the 9G non-Elites or not. Thats his business. However, to say the things that he posted today regarding an app he has never seen and/or used is scare tactics.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to press a button on an app. And no one should fear pressing that button. The 9G non-Elites can be calibrated just like the 8Gs. It just takes a few more steps to get it done. If a calibrator is afraid of pressing a button to access the tools he needs to calibrate your set, they should not be calibrating any set, IMO. They are suppose to be the "experts" and know how and what they are doing in the SM, no?


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post #1695 of 30650 Old 07-13-2008, 04:14 PM
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^^ I just noticed something:
I don't recall ever seeing a screenshot of D-Nice's TV. Would be nice to see a before and after calibration shot. I now the camera won't get all the good details, but I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that some D-Nice pics would be ... well... nice.

I mean, damn, the shots in the pictures thread are amazing (especially some of the latest shots).

Click here to see some amazing shots using D-Nice's settings by a user:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1829
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post #1696 of 30650 Old 07-13-2008, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nambit View Post

^^ I just noticed something:
I don't recall ever seeing a screenshot of D-Nice's TV. Would be nice to see a before and after calibration shot. I now the camera won't get all the good details, but I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that some D-Nice pics would be ... well... nice.

I mean, damn, the shots in the pictures thread are amazing (especially some of the latest shots).

Click here to see some amazing shots using D-Nice's settings by a user:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1829

  • I don't believe in screenshots as they don't fully capture the dynamic range of any PDP. By no means does am I implying others should not continue to capture the "eye candy" Just not my cup of tea.
  • My photography skills are pathetic!!!!


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post #1697 of 30650 Old 07-13-2008, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I'm not trying to be defensive (if you are implying that I am). I could care less if umr services the 9G non-Elites or not. Thats his business. However, to say the things that he posted today regarding an app he has never seen and/or used is scare tactics.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to press a button on an app. And no one should fear pressing that button. The 9G non-Elites can be calibrated just like the 8Gs. It just takes a few more steps to get it done. If a calibrator is afraid of pressing a button to access the tools he needs to calibrate your set, they should not be calibrating any set, IMO. They are suppose to be the "experts" and know how and what they are doing in the SM, no?


Agreed.
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post #1698 of 30650 Old 07-13-2008, 05:27 PM
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As D-Nice has posted you really only need serial command to enter, save and exit the service menu, this is because the consumer remote does not have a button that the service remote does have called "factory". Once you have entered the menu through a simple serial command you can use the consumer remote to navigate the menu and make changes. However it looks as if Turbe is going to release a calibration file for the sets with adjustment value sliders (speculation on my part from what I've read), which would make it even easier for the layman.

So, as D-Nice has stated it is quite straight-forward, and there is also a serial command to recall saved settings of a backup EEPROM in case you tried really hard and were successful in screwing things up while in the menu.

To be honest in Pioneer's quest for increased profitability in this division I wouldn't be surprised if the microcomputer processing architecture is the same between the Elite's and Non's and that if someone was inclined to get a hold of the Elite firmware, you just may be able to re-flash the xx20's into Elites. Granted this is speculation, but if anybody has a link to buy or copy of the Elite Service Manual please post or PM me, I would like to further explore my theory.
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post #1699 of 30650 Old 07-13-2008, 05:57 PM
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Are these characterizations defensive, aggressive, or objective when used in reference to UMR?

I don't know, that's for sure. It does seem similar to the disagreement about break-in settings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

You can only screw things up in the SM if you do not know what you are doing.



... a bit outlandish....especially if you know what you are doing.



... if you do not know what you are doing, you have no damn business accessing the SM in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post


... if you actually took the time research what I'm using




... and ban 9G non-Elite owners from your services



... don't use "fear tactics" on a tool that you are not familiar with nor used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

... And no one should fear pressing that button.



... If a calibrator is afraid of pressing a button to access the tools he needs to calibrate your set, they should not be calibrating any set, IMO.



They are suppose to be the "experts" and know how and what they are doing in the SM, no?


Calibration Resources:

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post #1700 of 30650 Old 07-13-2008, 06:00 PM
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What settings would you recommend using on my 111 theb until you've had a chance to put your's through it's paces.

I'm using the PS3 as my BD player and it seems to work quite nicely, mind you I noticed that while watching Ratatouille in Dot to Dot mode it still has black bars on top and bottom, is this because of the aspect ratio the disc was mastered in?

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

No


Not yet.

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post #1701 of 30650 Old 07-13-2008, 06:13 PM
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Does the oppo 970 carry 480i using HDMI which it sounds like you need for 9g?

Matt
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post #1702 of 30650 Old 07-13-2008, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Are these characterizations defensive, aggressive, or objective when used in reference to UMR?

I don't know, that's for sure. It does seem similar to the disagreement about break-in settings.


-First post is common sense.
-Second post is directed towards this comment and is no way an insult to umr. However, to attempt to seed fear in someone due because a certain app uses RS232 commands is outlandish. I wonder how all those who have their panels tied into home automation systems feel :
Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

I am not going to use that type of software with an RS-232 port to adjust those displays. It has been possible in the past to damage the programming in Pioneer plasmas with those ports because they are also used for firmware changes. I have no desire to enter a consumers home and leave him with a non operational display or be unable to calibrate it because the RS-232 port is not accessable due to the displays mounting. I will not be touching a 9G non-Elite unit.

-Third comment is directed towards everyone. If you do not know how to use the SM, you have no business in it.
-Forth comment is direct towards umr as he has never even seen the app I'm using.
-Fifth comment is directed towards umr. Again, if he wants to ban 9G non-Elite owners from his services due to an illegitimate concern, that's his business. However, there is nothing dangerous about whats being used.
-Sixth comment is directed towards umr.
-Seventh comment is for everyone.
-Eighth comment is directed towards all calibrators.
-The final comment is directed towards all calibrators.


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post #1703 of 30650 Old 07-13-2008, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattg3 View Post

Does the oppo 970 carry 480i using HDMI which it sounds like you need for 9g?

An owner of the OPPO 970 recently told me that it does output 480i over HDMI. It's not a current model.

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post #1704 of 30650 Old 07-13-2008, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBDiver View Post

As D-Nice has posted you really only need serial command to enter, save and exit the service menu, this is because the consumer remote does not have a button that the service remote does have called "factory". Once you have entered the menu through a simple serial command you can use the consumer remote to navigate the menu and make changes.

It seems like that exclusive "factory" command from the service remote should be available somewhere as a simple discrete IR command. People who wish to do these calibrations, then, could program the factory command into their universal remotes and access the service menu that way. Seems like this would bypass the whole discussion/argument about using the serial port for service menu access.
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post #1705 of 30650 Old 07-13-2008, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixxer1 View Post

I'm using the PS3 as my BD player and it seems to work quite nicely, mind you I noticed that while watching Ratatouille in Dot to Dot mode it still has black bars on top and bottom, is this because of the aspect ratio the disc was mastered in?

Yes, gixxer, Ratatouille is anamorphic (2.35:1 aspect ratio). Unless you distort or crop the picture, any anamorphic movie is going to have those bars at the top and bottom. The really nice thing about the Kuros is how those bars are so black, they just blend right into the frame.
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post #1706 of 30650 Old 07-13-2008, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

It seems like that exclusive "factory" command from the service remote should be available somewhere as a simple discrete IR command. People who wish to do these calibrations, then, could program the factory command into their universal remotes and access the service menu that way. Seems like this would bypass the whole discussion/argument about using the serial port for service menu access.

You would still need the the save command to save the RGB settings if you calibrate any mode beyond Performance/Standard. However, you may be able to convert the RS232 command for save to something that can be used on a universal remote.


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post #1707 of 30650 Old 07-13-2008, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

You would still need the the save command to save the RGB settings if you calibrate any mode beyond Performance/Standard. However, you may be able to convert the RS232 command for save to something that can be used on a universal remote.

Oh okay. I thought there was just one serial command being used for access, and then everything else was on the remote. Thanks for clarifying. Still, as you point out, if these commands are available as IR commands on a service remote, they do exist, and inquiring minds might be able to dig them up somewhere...
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post #1708 of 30650 Old 07-13-2008, 06:39 PM
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I did understand how you directed your comments, but in some cases, I think it's possible that they could be missunderstood. You'll have to forgive my background. While I'm a geek, I came to my geekhood through Psychology.

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... to attempt to seed fear in someone due because a certain app uses RS232 commands is outlandish.

That seems to like a heavy characterization.

My real background is in systems design and software development on early multithreaded main frame processors. I started working with personal computer software development in 1984 -- an ominous date to be sure.

I don't have your confidence, even in fully developed software that's been in use for a long time. As I understood your short descriptions of the software you are using, it sounded like it was in beta. Maybe I'm wrong about that.

My own words that have caused me a good amount of professional grief over time went something like this.

"There is no way that this patch won't work the first time."

I don't think I ever claimed that any software was free of bugs no matter how simple it seemed, or how long it had been in use.

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post #1709 of 30650 Old 07-13-2008, 06:44 PM
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Cool! Thanks alot, how can you tell this is my first flat screen TV and what a TV it is.

Now if I can figure out what settings to use in pure mode for watching BD movies I'd be all set. I guess I'll just have to wait until D-Nice reviews his 111 if he ever gets one that's not damaged lol.

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Yes, gixxer, Ratatouille is anamorphic (2.35:1 aspect ratio). Unless you distort or crop the picture, any anamorphic movie is going to have those bars at the top and bottom. The really nice thing about the Kuros is how those bars are so black, they just blend right into the frame.

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post #1710 of 30650 Old 07-13-2008, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by progprog View Post

It seems like that exclusive "factory" command from the service remote should be available somewhere as a simple discrete IR command. People who wish to do these calibrations, then, could program the factory command into their universal remotes and access the service menu that way. Seems like this would bypass the whole discussion/argument about using the serial port for service menu access.

That was done with Samsung DLP models from 2005 and 2006. Samsung had done something much like Pioneer with the non-Elites. They were creating distance between their two model lines.

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