The Official Pioneer 9G Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 586 - AVS Forum
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post #17551 of 30482 Old 05-30-2009, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by tbird8450 View Post

Brightness at +4 is certainly destroying your nice Kuro black level.



Not if the lows are adjusted down.
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post #17552 of 30482 Old 05-30-2009, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyb05 View Post

no test patterns, no meter, no software = NO CALIBRATION


I guess my tv is not calibrated. I'm fine with that. I bet my results probably blow away any calibrator using equipment. I know i have a good laugh at dnice settings Equipment is nice for grayscale, in the highs only, that's about it. What good is a great grayscale when your color that most calibrators come up is guranteed oversaturated at +3 or more? I would trust MrBobs eye over your typical calibrator who does everything by the book.
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post #17553 of 30482 Old 05-30-2009, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Just throwing some bait out there to see who bites?


I could care less who responds. I have my elite mastered, settings are set and have not been adjsuted in a long time unless a movie needs a brightness or quick color adjustment, which all elites will need for perfection. Your by the book calibrator can not come close with just using equipment and graphs only, that's like letting a BB qeek squad kid in to try to better my settings.
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post #17554 of 30482 Old 05-30-2009, 11:04 AM
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You clearly care,which is why you are writing and responding. I care because I'm worried you got messed over and don't want to have false information floating around. I sincerely hope it looks great and you're happy with your TV.

Are you good at taking accurate pictures of your Kuro? Could you post some pictures on the picture thread?
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post #17555 of 30482 Old 05-30-2009, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmgag03 View Post

You clearly care,which is why you are writing and responding. I care because I'm worried you got messed over and don't want to have false information floating around. I sincerely hope it looks great and you're happy with your TV.

No need to worry. You better believe it's perfection.


Quote:


Are you good at taking accurate pictures of your Kuro? Could you post some pictures on the picture thread?


I'm ok, check page 125 on the thread.
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post #17556 of 30482 Old 05-30-2009, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

this is why people always tell you to interview your calibrator...

if it had been me, i would have thoroughly questioned him... the focus of that questioning would have been "why don't you feel the need to use instruments, when virtually everyone else does?"... if the answer to that was a simple "i don't need them to calibrate this set", he wouldn't have lasted long at my house...

without graphs, unfortunately, your assessment of the "accuracy" of his calibration is worthless...

I interviewed him but was told he has experience with my display. Is this fraud?

It never occurred to ask about color analyzers used because be default, you're lead to believe that a 'pro' calibrator has all the tools.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryB1124 View Post

For those wondering, Mr. Bob is an acclaimed calibrator with many positive reviews in the area of CRT. He is a CRT expert.

But like progprog said, calibration is done to very set standards. That's why people have calibrations done to their TV's. It's to get the measurements accurate to the nth degree.

As for some of the adjustments you mentioned...black, NR, color space, green high...I am skeptical that any other calibrators would have messed with those adjustments...though regarding green high I might be mistaken. Color space 1??? It's common knowledge that color space 2 is the accurate one.

Bottom line: calibrations are supposed to be done according to measurement standards. If you have not had that done on your TV, I don't think you received the best possible calibration.

You would still need color analyzers to calibrate RPTV or CRT would you not? He brought suitcases and stuff and I thought he was actually going to dig out a color analyzer, but this was not the case. I asked him to use one, but he didn't. He said Pioneers do not need color calibration, even further, they do not have the functionality to properly do a color calibration.
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post #17557 of 30482 Old 05-30-2009, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues View Post

I could care less who responds. I have my elite mastered, settings are set and have not been adjsuted in a long time unless a movie needs a brightness or quick color adjustment, which all elites will need for perfection. Your by the book calibrator can not come close with just using equipment and graphs only, that's like letting a BB qeek squad kid in to try to better my settings.

I totally agree. All these calibration devices and scientific approaches are a crock. That's why when I get an operation, I prefer that the anesthesiologist "eyeball" the gas levels in my bloodstream instead of relying on one of those newfangled meters. Same goes for car tuning--I use a guy down the street who refuses to use one of those gimmicky tuning computers and instead just listens to the engine sounds; I'd put my tuneup up against any of those so-called "calibrated" tunings they do at the dealer. And don't even get me started on pilots who use instrumentation instead of just looking at the ground. This country was built by manly men who killed bears with their bare hands. It wasn't until we went soft that we started in with all that electricity and paved roads and GPS and computers and stuff. None of that for me, I say.
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post #17558 of 30482 Old 05-30-2009, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James W. Johnson View Post

I got a quick question for Turbe or anyone else who knows this.
Does ControlCAL work on Apple PCs?
A friend of mine has been bugging me about getting an Apple and I am considering getting one.
I am sure I will buy a user copy of ControlCAL one of these days so I just wanted to check if ControlCAL and Apple are a problem or not.

thanks

ControlCAl is a Windows program, so an Intel Mac using Boot Camp, Fusion 2 or Parallels 4 can run CC.
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post #17559 of 30482 Old 05-30-2009, 01:21 PM
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Hello,

I found there are 2 different ISF Night settings by D-Nice posted in ControlCAL forum. The only difference between the two is Gamma settings. One has all set to 0 and the other has all -1. What's the difference?

Michaelmorio
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post #17560 of 30482 Old 05-30-2009, 03:23 PM
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Thanks to Roman, my 151 was delivered yesterday and is running fine.

I still can't quite believe how much better HDDVD and Bluray look on
this thing compared to my PDP-5070.

Naturally I wanted to check out the 151's deep blacks so I decided to
watch some movies with dark, outer-space scenes.

2001: A Space Odyssey (HDDVD) and Event Horizon (Blu) looked
stunning, and that is with no tweaking, just Pure mode right out
of the box.

I increased the sharpness from -15 to -10 and watched Blade Runner
(HDDVD) and it was jaw-droppingly good, so vivid and detailed.

Well, I have to go pick some more movies with some delicious dark
scenes to watch tonight.

Anyway, thanks again to Roman for solving some logistical issues and
getting the 151 delivered safely to my house!
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post #17561 of 30482 Old 05-30-2009, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James W. Johnson View Post

I got a quick question for Turbe or anyone else who knows this.
Does ControlCAL work on Apple PCs?
A friend of mine has been bugging me about getting an Apple and I am considering getting one.
I am sure I will buy a user copy of ControlCAL one of these days so I just wanted to check if ControlCAL and Apple are a problem or not.

thanks

I run ControlCAL on my Macbookpro.

I use VMware Fusion to run Windoze XP. This allows me to use ControlCAL (which, sadly, is a Windoze only program).

-steve
My HT Setup - updated 12/25/2012
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post #17562 of 30482 Old 05-30-2009, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues View Post

I could care less who responds. I have my elite mastered, settings are set and have not been adjsuted in a long time unless a movie needs a brightness or quick color adjustment, which all elites will need for perfection. Your by the book calibrator can not come close with just using equipment and graphs only, that's like letting a BB qeek squad kid in to try to better my settings.

With all respect.. you are completely and utterly full of sh*t.

-steve
My HT Setup - updated 12/25/2012
"...and all the science, I don't understand. It's just my job, five days a week."
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post #17563 of 30482 Old 05-30-2009, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sk20 View Post

I totally agree. All these calibration devices and scientific approaches are a crock. That's why when I get an operation, I prefer that the anesthesiologist "eyeball" the gas levels in my bloodstream instead of relying on one of those newfangled meters. Same goes for car tuning--I use a guy down the street who refuses to use one of those gimmicky tuning computers and instead just listens to the engine sounds; I'd put my tuneup up against any of those so-called "calibrated" tunings they do at the dealer. And don't even get me started on pilots who use instrumentation instead of just looking at the ground. This country was built by manly men who killed bears with their bare hands. It wasn't until we went soft that we started in with all that electricity and paved roads and GPS and computers and stuff. None of that for me, I say.

So I guess you're saying dyno charts are a bunch of crock along with measured 1/4 mile and lap times?
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post #17564 of 30482 Old 05-30-2009, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaelmorio View Post

Hello,

I found there are 2 different ISF Night settings by D-Nice posted in ControlCAL forum. The only difference between the two is Gamma settings. One has all set to 0 and the other has all -1. What's the difference?

Michaelmorio

D-Nice corrested the gamma setting on ISF-Night it should be -1.(small set of TV do better with 0, he can elaborate on this)
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post #17565 of 30482 Old 05-30-2009, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

a guy "calibrates" your set "by eye" and on that basis d-nice's settings are wrong?

i've seen many many "interesting" leaps of logic here at avs, but that one is right up there....

This is exactly one of the reasons why I'm afraid to get my 111 calibrated. I have no knowledge whatsoever when it comes to this stuff. I doubt even after a calibration whether I'd be able to tell if the panel was perfect. Would a calibrator once they see a customer has no idea,would they turn a regular 3-4 hour job down to 1 because they'd be able to get away with it?,what equipment even needs to be used? They might do more when they have someone with some idea of whats going on,but the average Joe like me??? To me it's scary!
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post #17566 of 30482 Old 05-30-2009, 05:25 PM
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Sending in my money for a pro-111 monday wish me luck i cant wait

Moving Heaven and Earth one Sub at a Time.
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post #17567 of 30482 Old 05-30-2009, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by travis-g View Post

Sending in my money for a pro-111 monday wish me luck i cant wait

Cool! You'll love it. Glad you were able to still get one, as it sounds like the 111FDs are starting to get scarce.
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post #17568 of 30482 Old 05-30-2009, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by progprog View Post

....So who is this guy that calibrates without equipment or software? If he already has reviews here, we should probably already at least know him by name. (I'm assuming his name can't possibly be....Mr. Bob. )......

yup he has over 5000 post here on avs as Mr Bob. here's more info for him from his own sig section..

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post #17569 of 30482 Old 05-30-2009, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by dssturbo1 View Post

yup he has over 5000 post here on avs as Mr Bob. here's more info for him from his own sig section..

Yeah, I saw earlier that someone described him as a "CRT expert." If he calibrated (, you get what I mean) CRTs for twenty years in the era before TVs really offered much adjustment capability beyond basic user controls, I can see where he might get pretty good at maximizing that type of set just by eye.

But it's pretty clear that a 9G plasma is a whole different animal, both in technology and in "calibrate-ability." His comments to a_ok2me revealed that he doesn't know as much about these sets.
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post #17570 of 30482 Old 05-30-2009, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by WonHung View Post

So I guess you're saying dyno charts are a bunch of crock along with measured 1/4 mile and lap times?

You do realize I was kidding, right?
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post #17571 of 30482 Old 05-30-2009, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguy3763 View Post

This is exactly one of the reasons why I'm afraid to get my 111 calibrated. I have no knowledge whatsoever when it comes to this stuff. I doubt even after a calibration whether I'd be able to tell if the panel was perfect. Would a calibrator once they see a customer has no idea,would they turn a regular 3-4 hour job down to 1 because they'd be able to get away with it?,what equipment even needs to be used? They might do more when they have someone with some idea of whats going on,but the average Joe like me??? To me it's scary!

If you get someone who is highly recommend on this and other threads by multiple Kuro owners, you'll be fine.
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post #17572 of 30482 Old 05-30-2009, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevec325 View Post

I run ControlCAL on my Macbookpro.

I use VMware Fusion to run Windoze XP. This allows me to use ControlCAL (which, sadly, is a Windoze only program).

Thanks , I think id rather not use any Windows only programs on my iMac, which btw I bought today. I have never used an Apple before, this is gonna take some getting used to but so far I am liking it. I am just gonna keep my Windows PC , in this economy the PC , keyboard/mouse & 17" LCD aint worth more than $200. Even if I can sell it, low end Windows laptops can be had for about $350.

Gee, with the $1500 I spent on the iMAC today I could have purchased 3-4 Windows PCs.
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post #17573 of 30482 Old 05-30-2009, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James W. Johnson View Post

Thanks , I think id rather not use any Windows only programs on my iMac, which btw I bought today. I have never used an Apple before, this is gonna take some getting used to but so far I am liking it. I am just gonna keep my Windows PC , in this economy the PC , keyboard/mouse & 17" LCD aint worth more than $200. Even if I can sell it, low end Windows laptops can be had for about $350.

If you'll still have the Windows machine, why not just run ControlCAL on that?
Quote:


Gee, with the $1500 I spent on the iMAC today I could have purchased 3-4 Windows PCs.

Umm, yeah......but not good ones!
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post #17574 of 30482 Old 05-30-2009, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by James W. Johnson View Post

Thanks , I think id rather not use any Windows only programs on my iMac, which btw I bought today. I have never used an Apple before, this is gonna take some getting used to but so far I am liking it. I am just gonna keep my Windows PC , in this economy the PC , keyboard/mouse & 17" LCD aint worth more than $200. Even if I can sell it, low end Windows laptops can be had for about $350.

Gee, with the $1500 I spent on the iMAC today I could have purchased 3-4 Windows PCs.

Once Mac - never back

I love (read: L O V E) my MBP... I was a windoze user for... ever. My daughter turned me on to Mac's about 2 years ago and... well, the rest is history.

Sadly, I need to run Outlook for biz and to sync my contacts, etc. with the Blackberry. Fusion allows me to do that on one laptop. Being able to run ControlCAL is an added bonus. The MBP, running Fusion is the absolutely best windoze machine I have ever used.

Worth talking a look at anyway.

If only we could get Turbe to get us either a Mac version of CC.. or a web version. One can dream

-steve
My HT Setup - updated 12/25/2012
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post #17575 of 30482 Old 05-30-2009, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguy3763 View Post

This is exactly one of the reasons why I'm afraid to get my 111 calibrated. I have no knowledge whatsoever when it comes to this stuff. I doubt even after a calibration whether I'd be able to tell if the panel was perfect. Would a calibrator once they see a customer has no idea,would they turn a regular 3-4 hour job down to 1 because they'd be able to get away with it?,what equipment even needs to be used? They might do more when they have someone with some idea of whats going on,but the average Joe like me??? To me it's scary!

Don't let the madness of this crap scare you away from having your display calibrated. There are a number of very good, highly reputable calibrators out there.

I can see where this story could cause you doubt about calibration. Do your research. Check out the calibrator you might want to use and ask us here for references. Chances are several folks have used that calibrator and can give a fair reference.

-steve
My HT Setup - updated 12/25/2012
"...and all the science, I don't understand. It's just my job, five days a week."
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post #17576 of 30482 Old 05-30-2009, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Cool! You'll love it. Glad you were able to still get one, as it sounds like the 111FDs are starting to get scarce.

Scarce is right. I was at my local AV shop today checking out the 111(hoping to get one before they are gone) and they have ONE left plus the display model. The guys at the shop were extremely accommodating, they let me mess with the settings and they had the set by itself in a room with ideal viewing conditions. They had the set hooked up to an elite BD player(dont know the model). They let me put in a few BD discs(Taken, Panasonic demo disc). In pure mode, with a few minimal tweaks I could not believe my eyes.
I couldn't even understand how a TV could display and image this breathtaking. As the renowned soccer Announcer, Ray Hudson, once said, "Its something that will take the breath away from your lungs."
I'm hoping desperately that I will be able to snag on of these sets before they are all gone. Since they only had one left, I couldn't really haggle an acceptable price at this particular shop. It might be Magnolia or one of the forum vendors for me(fingers crossed).

Denon AVR-X2000------>Def Tech PM1000's------>Def Tech PC2000------->Sub(TBD)
Pioneer Pro111FD viewed from 7'------>Picture mode, ISF Day(calibrated by umr)
Sony PS3

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post #17577 of 30482 Old 05-30-2009, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by sk20 View Post

You do realize I was kidding, right?

My bad. With some of the dialogue I've seen lately, it was hard to tell.
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post #17578 of 30482 Old 05-30-2009, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sk20 View Post

If you get someone who is highly recommend on this and other threads by multiple Kuro owners, you'll be fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevec325 View Post

Don't let the madness of this crap scare you away from having your display calibrated. There are a number of very good, highly reputable calibrators out there.

I can see where this story could cause you doubt about calibration. Do your research. Check out the calibrator you might want to use and ask us here for references. Chances are several folks have used that calibrator and can give a fair reference.

+1

I personally have used and highly recommend Gregg Loewen (calibrated my Tosh RPTV) and D-Nice (calibrated my Elite 151). I and others here can assure you they will not scam you.

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post #17579 of 30482 Old 05-30-2009, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevec325 View Post

Once Mac - never back

I hope it works out that way.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stevec325 View Post

I love (read: L O V E) my MBP... I was a windoze user for... ever. My daughter turned me on to Mac's about 2 years ago and... well, the rest is history.

Sadly, I need to run Outlook for biz and to sync my contacts, etc. with the Blackberry. Fusion allows me to do that on one laptop. Being able to run ControlCAL is an added bonus. The MBP, running Fusion is the absolutely best windoze machine I have ever used.

Worth talking a look at anyway.

If only we could get Turbe to get us either a Mac version of CC.. or a web version. One can dream

I can keep my Windows PC however the reality is the calibration I paid for is so good that I doubt I will ever need ControlCAL .
More than anything it would be just another toy.
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post #17580 of 30482 Old 05-30-2009, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nealh View Post

D-Nice corrested the gamma setting on ISF-Night it should be -1.(small set of TV do better with 0, he can elaborate on this)

Interesting. D-Nice recently calibrated my 151 and gamma on ISF Day is -1 and 0 on ISF Night.

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