The Official Pioneer 9G Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 595 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 06-03-2009, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Packdog View Post

Question for the Kuro owners.

I am ready to purchase a 111FD, but have one concern.

When I look at the Pioneer's in a store(Magnolia), the blacks, contrast, shadow detail, etc ... are stunning. But it seems to my eye that the motion resolution is blurred. They had a 111FD next to a Samsung LED and a Samsung 860 and both seemed better with the motion and even the text of a ESPN scoreboard seemed clearer on the other two sets. These other two sets have their flaws and I have been looking and reading long enough (CNET, AVS, etc...) to know that the Elite's are king, but....

I'm guessing that this is a setting . I would like to grab remote and change before pulling trigger tomorrow. Can you guys help me ??

Thanks in advance.

If you can go back and play with the Kuro, I would recommend you try the different Pure Cinema settings. Grab the remote, and press "Tools." Scroll to AV Selection and pick the one you like (or the one that looks most like whatever you're comparing the Kuro to, just to minimize that variable.)

Now, while you're watching, press "Menu" on the remote, and in the menu system, navigate to Setup>Picture>Pro Adjust>Pure Cinema>Film Mode. (Yeah....I know. I didn't design the damn thing! ) If you're watching a TV source, compare the ADVANCE, SMOOTH, and STANDARD settings. If you're watching a blu-ray source, compare OFF and ADVANCE. The Pure Cinema (PC) setting can have a really noticeable impact on motion perception for some people.
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Old 06-03-2009, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeBloggz View Post

The HDMI output on my LCD rear projection set produces a picture markedly worse then using component.

Do you mean input?

I don't know of any displays that output HDMI.
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Old 06-03-2009, 02:54 PM
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heatwave3

I'm gonna play with CC DAY/NIGHT/AUTO tonight, in hopes of getting rid of the garbage from TWC (at least hiding it).

You posted:
ISF-AUTO, use D-Nice Day with the following changes:
COLOR +8
CONTRAST 38-43 (In one post) 43 (In other post)I'll try 43.
Sharpness Around -7 or so (In one post) 0 (In other post)
Which SHARPNESS did you settle on?

Do you use the COLOR & LIGHT SENSOR?

HH
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Old 06-03-2009, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Do you mean input?

I don't know of any displays that output HDMI.

Yeah, my bad.

Denon AVR-X2000------>Def Tech PM1000's------>Def Tech PC2000------->Sub(TBD)
Pioneer Pro111FD viewed from 7'------>Picture mode, ISF Day(calibrated by umr)
Sony PS3

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Old 06-03-2009, 03:01 PM
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Packdog, the decision is ultimately yours but I was in the same scenario you were a couple of weeks ago. I went with the 111FD and have no regrets whatsoever. Viewing the 111FD at BB/Magnolia does it no justice. Everything, including motion, was much better at home.

Pioneer PRO-111FD | Samsung PN50B650 | Panasonic TH-42PZ85U
PSWii60
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Old 06-03-2009, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foodgoeshere View Post

Packdog, the decision is ultimately yours but I was in the same scenario you were a couple of weeks ago. I went with the 111FD and have no regrets whatsoever. Viewing the 111FD at BB/Magnolia does it no justice. Everything, including motion, was much better at home.

I do not understand Magnolia stores. It seems they realluy handicap the Elites. worst placement of the TV in mine. The only other TV I really like was the Samsung A950 LED but and I cant emphasize this enough, the 111FD has a stunning amazing picture. You will not be disappointed at all, if you are BB will take back in 30days and you can get something else.
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Old 06-03-2009, 04:00 PM
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Hey I was just wondering if anyone used the Optimum mode, with the color sensor? I am curious to try it out for regular daytime cable tv viewing....
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Old 06-03-2009, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

There's one other way: a BD player that can decode the HD codecs and output them as multichannel analog. If he likes his current receiver, that would be a good way to get a lot more mileage out of it.

OK, my Denon has 6 analog ins (5.1). Two questions: Will the BD out put 7.1 as 5.1 and still take advantage of lossless and other (better) codecs ? And secondly will my Denon still do bass management on this multichannel analog input I will be feeding it ?

Thanks,
Scotty
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Old 06-03-2009, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoddee View Post

OK, my Denon has 6 analog ins (5.1). Two questions: Will the BD out put 7.1 as 5.1 and still take advantage of lossless and other (better) codecs ? And secondly will my Denon still do bass management on this multichannel analog input I will be feeding it ?

Thanks,
Scotty

I do exactly what you're describing and yes, your Denon will benefit from the new codecs. I have a McIntosh pre/pro with 6 analog inputs and have them connected to a BDP-09FD. In the case of the 09, I have to use the side speaker connections rather than the rears to get rear channel audio. Your Denon should still be able to handle your bass management, etc. At least it works that way for my McIntosh 09 combo.
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Old 06-03-2009, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoddee View Post

OK, my Denon has 6 analog ins (5.1). Two questions: Will the BD out put 7.1 as 5.1 and still take advantage of lossless and other (better) codecs ? And secondly will my Denon still do bass management on this multichannel analog input I will be feeding it ?

Thanks,
Scotty

The first question is mostly moot, since there aren't that many movies that have a 7.1 audio mix, but yes, the players downmix to 5.1. Most receivers will not apply bass management to the multi-channel analog source. (A few do, but often convert back to digital first, which is probably a bad idea.) This is why BD players with analog output offer at least some rudimentary speaker setup, if not more fully-featured bass management.
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Old 06-03-2009, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

The first question is mostly moot, since there aren't that many movies that have a 7.1 audio mix, but yes, the players downmix to 5.1. Most receivers will not apply bass management to the multi-channel analog source. (A few do, but often convert back to digital first, which is probably a bad idea.) This is why BD players with analog output offer at least some rudimentary speaker setup, if not more fully-featured bass management.

There are over 90 Movies currently with a 7.1 mix

http://www.blu-raystats.com/Stats/Stats.php

Just change the Audio drop down box to 7.1 and you will see
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Old 06-03-2009, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by JTMav View Post

GBought a switch and now using both players with excellent results.

What switch do you use? We had the same problem and got Zektors, which work great.
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Old 06-03-2009, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Packdog View Post

Question for the Kuro owners.

I am ready to purchase a 111FD, but have one concern.

When I look at the Pioneer's in a store(Magnolia), the blacks, contrast, shadow detail, etc ... are stunning. But it seems to my eye that the motion resolution is blurred. They had a 111FD next to a Samsung LED and a Samsung 860 and both seemed better with the motion and even the text of a ESPN scoreboard seemed clearer on the other two sets. These other two sets have their flaws and I have been looking and reading long enough (CNET, AVS, etc...) to know that the Elite's are king, but....

I'm guessing that this is a setting . I would like to grab remote and change before pulling trigger tomorrow. Can you guys help me ??

Thanks in advance.

I'm really sensitive to motion blur, and even the 120 Hz LCDs look blurry to me with fast motion--for example, a moving puck or thrown football. This is one of the reasons we got the Kuro instead of an LCD. I don't see motion blur on our 141 at all.
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Old 06-03-2009, 08:11 PM
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I'm sure someone can chime in here, but I noticed the manufacturer date on my 111FD is "April 2009." Curious to know if it is quite possibly one of the last?

Pioneer PRO-111FD | Samsung PN50B650 | Panasonic TH-42PZ85U
PSWii60
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Old 06-03-2009, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pj121391 View Post

There are over 90 Movies currently with a 7.1 mix

http://www.blu-raystats.com/Stats/Stats.php

Just change the Audio drop down box to 7.1 and you will see

Yes, I'm familiar with blu-raystats and how to use it. In fact, this is my source for such data: 90 out of over 1300 blu-rays listed (<7%) qualifies as "not that many" to me.
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Old 06-03-2009, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

If you can go back and play with the Kuro, I would recommend you try the different Pure Cinema settings. Grab the remote, and press "Tools." Scroll to AV Selection and pick the one you like (or the one that looks most like whatever you're comparing the Kuro to, just to minimize that variable.)

Now, while you're watching, press "Menu" on the remote, and in the menu system, navigate to Setup>Picture>Pro Adjust>Pure Cinema>Film Mode. (Yeah....I know. I didn't design the damn thing! ) If you're watching a TV source, compare the ADVANCE, SMOOTH, and STANDARD settings. If you're watching a blu-ray source, compare OFF and ADVANCE. The Pure Cinema (PC) setting can have a really noticeable impact on motion perception for some people.

Thanks for the tips, can't wait to try them.

Appreciate all the comments. Keeping my fingers crossed that I am buying a 111FD tomorrow !!
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Old 06-03-2009, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Packdog View Post

Thanks for the tips, can't wait to try them.

Appreciate all the comments. Keeping my fingers crossed that I am buying a 111FD tomorrow !!

good luck and let us know how it goes. im currently hunting a 111fd down, if all goes well i could be a proud owner in the next couple of weeks.
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Old 06-03-2009, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerHarley View Post

heatwave3

I'm gonna play with CC DAY/NIGHT/AUTO tonight, in hopes of getting rid of the garbage from TWC (at least hiding it).

You posted:
ISF-AUTO, use D-Nice Day with the following changes:
COLOR +8
CONTRAST 38-43 (In one post) 43 (In other post)I'll try 43.
Sharpness Around -7 or so (In one post) 0 (In other post)
Which SHARPNESS did you settle on?

Do you use the COLOR & LIGHT SENSOR?

HH

Yes.... I use both the color and light sensor. Based on other posts, I've lowered the contrast in ISF-Auto from my original 43 down to 41 however I don't see any real difference but have left it at 41. Maybe a little change but hard to tell if the whites are "less crushed" to my eyes.

I also lowered the ISF-Auto color from 8 to 5 based on other recommendations as well. Once again, not a big difference but slightly noticeable (in a good way).

I currently have sharpness at 0 for ISF-Auto but once again very little if any difference to me from -7 to 0 however there is a modestly noticeable difference between -15 and 0 in sharpness.

I've kept brightness at +1. I kept ISF-Day and Night true to D-nice's original settings for a 151. I applied these Day settings to Auto and made the changes above plus I changed Cinema from Advanced to Smooth. To my eyes the change in the cinema mode between Advanced and Smooth is the biggest change from my perspective, at least for cable tv. I keep Advanced on ISF Day and Night for watching Blu-ray.

Once again, ISF auto is nice to have as a "customized to your preferences" version of D-nice's original settings. Try experimenting and finding different values that make the picture better from your perspective. I find its good to watch an evening before making further changes to see how you like the settings against various different programming.

This is one of the nice advantages of having CC for making these types of adjustments and experimenting to get the best possible picture quality from "your" perspective.

OPPO BDP-83 EAP (second group)
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Old 06-03-2009, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Packdog View Post

Thanks for the tips, can't wait to try them.

Appreciate all the comments. Keeping my fingers crossed that I am buying a 111FD tomorrow !!

My prediction? You're coming home with a new 111FD tomorrow!
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Old 06-03-2009, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heatwave3 View Post

Yes.... I use both the color and light sensor. Based on other posts, I've lowered the contrast in ISF-Auto from my original 43 down to 41 however I don't see any real difference but have left it at 41. Maybe a little change but hard to tell if the whites are "less crushed" to my eyes.

Do you use isf-Auto exclusively now? I'm thinking about giving it a try, but not so sure I want to bother digging out and installing the color sensor....
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Do you use isf-Auto exclusively now? I'm thinking about giving it a try, but not so sure I want to bother digging out and installing the color sensor....

I'm now to the point that I use ISF-Auto almost exclusively for cable TV although I still go back and forth between Auto and Day for watching Blu-Ray. I have still not come to a decision as to which I prefer for watching blu-ray. I keep checking to see if Auto is "really" my preferred viewing mode and each time I run through the different modes, I always come back to liking the picture best with ISF-Auto using both sensors and D-nice's Day settings PLUS the changes noted above. I definitely prefer the sharper image at 0 vs -15 (particularly when watching sports). The changes I noted above vs D-nice's original Day settings just make the picture richer and more vibrant without having an artificial or oversaturated look to it. I watched the Yankees play Texas in HD tonight and the picture was very deep, luxurious and natural.

Its been several months since we had the 151 delivered and yet my son and wife were still remarking this evening how the picture of the 151 with these settings just seems so unbelievably "deep". Can't find the exact right words but the game this evening in HD was only missing the smell of hotdogs, cut grass and beer to be any more realistic. In many respects its actually better than being at the new stadium. (Given the new pricing for some of the seats for a single game at the new stadium, you could almost buy a new 151 ) Smooth was definitely the mode to watch a baseball game in for my eyes. All in all, I really couldn't be happier with the investment in a 151, particularly since getting the picture (and sound with my Denon 3808) dialed in with ControlCal.

OPPO BDP-83 EAP (second group)
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heatwave3 View Post

Yes.... I use both the color and light sensor. Based on other posts, I've lowered the contrast in ISF-Auto from my original 43 down to 41 however I don't see any real difference but have left it at 41. Maybe a little change but hard to tell if the whites are "less crushed" to my eyes.

I do see a little crush @ 43 and before I read this post I thought about going back in and splitting the difference (38-43), will let you know on this.

I also lowered the ISF-Auto color from 8 to 5 based on other recommendations as well. Once again, not a big difference but slightly noticeable (in a good way).

After a few hours, I like it @ 8,,,Will have to see as time goes by.

I currently have sharpness at 0 for ISF-Auto but once again very little if any difference to me from -7 to 0 however there is a modestly noticeable difference between -15 and 0 in sharpness.

I have it @ 0 and looks fine so far.

I've kept brightness at +1. I kept ISF-Day and Night true to D-nice's original settings for a 151. I applied these Day settings to Auto and made the changes above plus I changed Cinema from Advanced to Smooth. To my eyes the change in the cinema mode between Advanced and Smooth is the biggest change from my perspective, at least for cable tv. I keep Advanced on ISF Day and Night for watching Blu-ray.

This is a HUGE leap in quality from what I was seeing with TWC, I checked all the sports channels (Lots of baseball tonight) and for the first time since I got this set, I no longer see all the crap, Thank-U...

Once again, ISF auto is nice to have as a "customized to your preferences" version of D-nice's original settings. Try experimenting and finding different values that make the picture better from your perspective. I find its good to watch an evening before making further changes to see how you like the settings against various different programming.

This is one of the nice advantages of having CC for making these types of adjustments and experimenting to get the best possible picture quality from "your" perspective.

I agree, I will go back in tomorrow and change the contrast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Do you use isf-Auto exclusively now? I'm thinking about giving it a try, but not so sure I want to bother digging out and installing the color sensor....

Well,, It's early for me, but, after comparing ISF-Day & Night to Heatwaves modified D-Nice Day = AUTO,,I'm sold on AUTO.

Color sensor connects to the bottom right with a magnet>>>VERY EASY, and worth it, I recommend trying Heatwaves recommendation's,,No,, make that, you must apply his and D-Nices settings...

HH
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Old 06-03-2009, 10:54 PM
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Thanks for the feedback guys. I think I'll give it a try.
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Old 06-03-2009, 11:15 PM
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+1 although I procrastinate and worry alot.

Scotty
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Old 06-04-2009, 02:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sk20 View Post

What switch do you use? We had the same problem and got Zektors, which work great.

Simple manual switch. No audible sound degradation.
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Old 06-04-2009, 04:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heatwave3 View Post

I'm now to the point that I use ISF-Auto almost exclusively for cable TV although I still go back and forth between Auto and Day for watching Blu-Ray. I have still not come to a decision as to which I prefer for watching blu-ray. I keep checking to see if Auto is "really" my preferred viewing mode and each time I run through the different modes, I always come back to liking the picture best with ISF-Auto using both sensors and D-nice's Day settings PLUS the changes noted above. I definitely prefer the sharper image at 0 vs -15 (particularly when watching sports). The changes I noted above vs D-nice's original Day settings just make the picture richer and more vibrant without having an artificial or oversaturated look to it. I watched the Yankees play Texas in HD tonight and the picture was very deep, luxurious and natural.

Its been several months since we had the 151 delivered and yet my son and wife were still remarking this evening how the picture of the 151 with these settings just seems so unbelievably "deep". Can't find the exact right words but the game this evening in HD was only missing the smell of hotdogs, cut grass and beer to be any more realistic. In many respects its actually better than being at the new stadium. (Given the new pricing for some of the seats for a single game at the new stadium, you could almost buy a new 151 ) Smooth was definitely the mode to watch a baseball game in for my eyes. All in all, I really couldn't be happier with the investment in a 151, particularly since getting the picture (and sound with my Denon 3808) dialed in with ControlCal.

I have to admit, I had been using Auto for the most part, but recently have fallen in love with using Day for both D-TV and BD.

Thanks Heatwave...thanks to you, I'll be breaking out my laptop again tonight. I'll try your modifications and live with Auto for a night to see if I like it.

Thanks as always for your input...it is most welcome!

BTW...were you watching the Yankees on YES? If so, then you already know how GREAT their HD is. I'm more of a Mets fan and watch their games on SNY. As good as SNY's HD is, YES is much noticeably better.

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Old 06-04-2009, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Yes, I'm familiar with blu-raystats 90 out of over 1300 blu-rays listed (<7%) qualifies as "not that many" to me.

It's better than what was available in the past, and it's about time that we are finally able to enjoy and hear at least the 90 that are out there now... I hope there is much more to come in future releases.

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Old 06-04-2009, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by rkish View Post

I have to admit, I had been using Auto for the most part, but recently have fallen in love with using Day for both D-TV and BD.

Thanks Heatwave...thanks to you, I'll be breaking out my laptop again tonight. I'll try your modifications and live with Auto for a night to see if I like it.

Thanks as always for your input...it is most welcome!

BTW...were you watching the Yankees on YES? If so, then you already know how GREAT their HD is. I'm more of a Mets fan and watch their games on SNY. As good as SNY's HD is, YES is much noticeably better.

YES...I was watching the Yankees on the YES HD channel. Its probably one of the top 3 HD channels from Comcast in my area. Watching the Yankees in HD on a 60" Elite is quite an experience...particularly when they beat the opposing team (which they didn't do last night but they did paste Texas the night before.)

OPPO BDP-83 EAP (second group)
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Old 06-04-2009, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by tjf1 View Post

I have HDMI troubles! I have a 151 with a Pioneer 51 Blueray player. There is no amp or other equipment involved. The player is located remotely and connected with a 35', top of the line cable, from Blue Jeans Cable. Everything had worked fine (even on High Speed Xmit)for the first month, but because the panel is wall mounted and the cable stiff, it was stressing the connection slightly and I would get problems occasionally. I purchased a right angle adapter(from BJC) for the HDMI cable and again everything was fine, for a couple of weeks. I then started having problems with high speed, so I turned that off, it worked OK for a week or 2, but now I can't get the HDMI to work at all. On inputs 4, 5, and 6 I get no HDMI indicator on the player. I ran the cable directly into #7 (on the end panel), with no right angle adapter. I got the HDMI indicator on the player, but no picture. Everything works fine using video or S-VHS connections.
I guess my next step is to buy a short cable, and place the player near the tv to verify whether or not the problem is the cable. I have no other HiDef tv or BD player that I can swap to verify those devices.
Has anybody experienced any problems like this, or have any ideas? ....It's very frustrating to sit down to watch a movie, and then have to start messing around with cables to get a picture.


Tom

Just an Update on this...It did indeed turn out to be a cable issue. I got a cheap ($3) 6 foot cable which worked. I called Blue Jeans Cable and they sent out a new one right away, with no hassles and a return shipping label. They also recommended a port save cable adapter to reduce stress on the end of the 35' cable. ....I was already thinking along those lines. I wish my dealings with other suppliers went so well.
Back to a quality BD picture, Ahhhh.
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Old 06-04-2009, 09:25 AM
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You guys just do not tire from talking about our 9g Elite Kuros.
Well I am getting there.

I sure wish we were talking about the 10g 70" Elite Kuro that was about to be released, but of course that is not the case.

Well I am not gonna be visiting here much more , if I have a problem its nice to know this thread is here.

You guys take care of yourselves and have a nice summer.


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