The Official Pioneer 9G Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 613 - AVS Forum
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post #18361 of 30525 Old 06-16-2009, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Eliab View Post

I agree.


ISF Day is specifically designed to be used in an environment that's inundated with light. In my opinion, it is too "amped" for a room with controlled lighting.

Eliab

ISF-Day I find to be good with most DirecTV programming, especially sports (Mets games). I only use "Day" on BD with animation (sometimes have even used "Performance") and occasionally with nature documentaries. But there are as many people that swear by Pure, so I think it's all a matter of preference.

Once my TV hits the 1000+ hours mark, I may find myself using "Day" in my dark living room a lot less. Currently, Day can give certain source material a nice "pop". When I find it "too bright" I've been using "Auto". Sometimes "Night" just looks a little too dim for me.

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post #18362 of 30525 Old 06-16-2009, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by heatwave3 View Post

Technically you simply can't get as much pop or brightness from Pure mode as you can from the ISF modes.

One cannot attain as much light output from the Pure mode as they can from the ISF modes. But, the additional "pop" that you're speaking of isn't necessarily needed or wanted under certain viewing conditions.

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Originally Posted by heatwave3 View Post

I think you'll find my "opinion" is validated. Please keep in mind I referenced that if "your personal preference" is for a brighter picture with "pop" you simply can't get Pure mode into the same level of PQ as you can with ISF -Day settings. I stand by that statement and once you activate the ISF modes you'll better understand.

For the most part, I agree with this statement. But the word "pop" is also very subjective and is often used to express a picture that's more blue, with slightly crushed blacks or clipped whites, and excessive edge enhancement. Sometimes, it is used to express more light output, which is what I'm assuming you're referring to.

That said, the ISF modes will in fact be brighter, there's no question. However, this additional output isn't always needed - certainly not in a completely controlled environment where the room can be darkened. On the other hand, if one's room tends to get somewhat to really bright - the ISF modes will definitely be very advantageous!

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post #18363 of 30525 Old 06-16-2009, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by rkish View Post

there are as many people that swear by Pure, so I think it's all a matter of preference.

Absolutely correct. I prefer Pure in a pitch black room. Some of my clients prefer the Night and a few even the Day mode for evening viewing.

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post #18364 of 30525 Old 06-16-2009, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Eliab View Post

One cannot attain as much light output from the Pure mode as they can from the ISF modes. But, the additional "pop" that you're speaking of isn't necessarily needed or wanted under certain viewing conditions.


For the most part, I agree with this statement. But the word "pop" is also very subjective and is often used to express a picture that's more blue, with slightly crushed blacks or clipped whites, and excessive edge enhancement. Sometimes, it is used to express more light output, which is what I'm assuming you're referring to.

That said, the ISF modes will in fact be brighter, there's no question. However, this additional output isn't always needed - certainly not in a completely controlled environment where the room can be darkened. On the other hand, if one's room tends to get somewhat to really bright - the ISF modes will definitely be very advantageous!

Eliab

FWIW I love D-Nice's ISF-Day settings for almost all viewing even at night.

I like the extra brightness so to speak. There are times in our dark room it is too much but overall I prefer it ISF-night and PURE. But this is my subjective opinion.
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post #18365 of 30525 Old 06-16-2009, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Yes, if you like inverse telecine. The one source we didn't mention was SD-DVD. While STANDARD and ADVANCE treat blu-ray's 1080p/24 signal exactly the same way, they would treat a DVD's 480i signal differently.

If the BD player is used for both BDs and DVDs, and it's set to source direct, the Kuro in ADVANCE will only engage 72Hz for BDs. But for DVDs, it will upscale, perform inverse telecine, and engage 72Hz. So that's the one situation where it makes a difference. If, on the other hand, the BD player is set to do the DVD upscaling, the Kuro will receive either 1080p/60 or 1080p/24 for DVDs (depending on your 24fps setting), and again, STANDARD and ADVANCE will treat those the same.

I'm gonna change my "heatwave3 D-Nice modified ISF AUTO" from SMOOTH to STANDARD today.

So, If I understand you, I should set BD player to UPSCALE.

What setting should be used for 24fps?

HH
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post #18366 of 30525 Old 06-16-2009, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by HuskerHarley View Post

I'm gonna change my "heatwave3 D-Nice modified ISF AUTO" from SMOOTH to STANDARD today.

So, If I understand you, I should set BD player to UPSCALE.

What setting should be used for 24fps?

HH

Well, I didn't..and wouldn't....make a blanket statement that everybody should have their BD player do the upscaling. Now, I have found that all my hi-def players outperform the Kuro in upscaling DVDs, but that's just me. Others have said they feel the Kuro is the best upscaler in their system. So you really have to compare the two and decide which you think does a better job. (FWIW, I'd pretty much make that blanket statement if your BD player is the Oppo BDP-83, which is the best upscaler I've ever seen. )

Okay, so now you've decided which component will do the upscaling. Next decision is whether you want to employ inverse telecine and display DVDs at 1080p/24. This gets discussed a lot and preferences vary. Personally, I don't like it because it causes noticeable motion artifacts that I find annoying. I turn it OFF in my BDP-83s.

So here are the settings you need if you want:

  • BD player upscales & play DVDs at 1080p/24 (employ inverse telecine):
    • Set the BD player's Output Resolution to 1080p, and 24p to ON.
    • Set the Kuro's Pure Cinema setting to STANDARD or ADVANCE.
  • BD player upscales & play DVDs at 1080p/60:
    • Set the BD player's Output Resolution to 1080p, and 24p to OFF.
    • The Kuro's PC setting won't impact the signal.
  • Kuro upscales & play DVDs at 1080p/24 (employ inverse telecine):
    • Set the BD player's Output Resolution to native (source direct).
    • Set the Kuro's PC setting to ADVANCE.
  • Kuro upscales & play DVDs at 1080p/60:
    • Set the BD player's Output Resolution to native (source direct).
    • Set the Kuro's PC setting to OFF, SMOOTH, or STANDARD.
For what it's worth, HH, I set my BD player to 1080p, 24p to OFF, and Pure Cinema to STANDARD.
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post #18367 of 30525 Old 06-16-2009, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Well, I didn't..and wouldn't....make a blanket statement that everybody should have their BD player do the upscaling. Now, I have found that all my hi-def players outperform the Kuro in upscaling DVDs, but that's just me. Others have said they feel the Kuro is the best upscaler in their system. So you really have to compare the two and decide which you think does a better job. (FWIW, I'd pretty much make that blanket statement if your BD player is the Oppo BDP-83, which is the best upscaler I've ever seen. )

Okay, so now you've decided which component will do the upscaling. Next decision is whether you want to employ inverse telecine and display DVDs at 1080p/24. This gets discussed a lot and preferences vary. Personally, I don't like it because it causes noticeable motion artifacts that I find annoying. I turn it OFF in my BDP-83s.

So here are the settings you need if you want:

  • BD player upscales & play DVDs at 1080p/24 (employ inverse telecine):
    • Set the BD player's Output Resolution to 1080p, and 24p to ON.
    • Set the Kuro's Pure Cinema setting to STANDARD or ADVANCE.
  • BD player upscales & play DVDs at 1080p/60:
    • Set the BD player's Output Resolution to 1080p, and 24p to OFF.
    • The Kuro's PC setting won't impact the signal.
  • Kuro upscales & play DVDs at 1080p/24 (employ inverse telecine):
    • Set the BD player's Output Resolution to native (source direct).
    • Set the Kuro's PC setting to ADVANCE.
  • Kuro upscales & play DVDs at 1080p/60:
    • Set the BD player's Output Resolution to native (source direct).
    • Set the Kuro's PC setting to OFF, SMOOTH, or STANDARD.
For what it's worth, HH, I set my BD player to 1080p, 24p to OFF, and Pure Cinema to STANDARD.

Thanks for the great info.

Been playing around with settings since I posted the question>>

I changed the output from my BD (Panny BD35) from AUTO to 1080P, I noticed a huge improvement from 480P DVDs, 24fps was already set to off.

Watched DK BR and still an awesome picture.

Now I need to break out the CC and STANDARDIZE IT.

HH
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post #18368 of 30525 Old 06-16-2009, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by HuskerHarley View Post

Thanks for the great info.

Been playing around with settings since I posted the question>>

I changed the output from my BD (Panny BD35) from AUTO to 1080P, I noticed a huge improvement from 480P DVDs, 24fps was already set to off.

Watched DK BR and still an awesome picture.

Now I need to break out the CC and STANDARDIZE IT.

HH

It kind of surprises me that changing from AUTO to 1080p made such a difference. Usually, AUTO is a setting that determines the input capabilities of your display and sends the highest resolution possible. So I would have thought that, connected to your Kuro, your player would've already been sending 1080p when set to AUTO. But apparently not.

Indeed, The Dark Knight on blu-ray is as good as it gets! Reference quality in every regard.
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post #18369 of 30525 Old 06-16-2009, 12:24 PM
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Message to someone from Pioneer Electronics......
Pioneer you need to put progprog on your payroll given the amount of help he has given Kuro 9g Elite owners.
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post #18370 of 30525 Old 06-16-2009, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

It kind of surprises me that changing from AUTO to 1080p made such a difference. Usually, AUTO is a setting that determines the input capabilities of your display and sends the highest resolution possible. So I would have thought that, connected to your Kuro, your player would've already been sending 1080p when set to AUTO. But apparently not.

Indeed, The Dark Knight on blu-ray is as good as it gets! Reference quality in every regard.

I'm gonna go A-B AUTO vs 1080P and see what I get. I hadn't watched a 480P DVD for some time and my memory of the quality was that it was terrible, and after changing from AUTO to 1080P and watching an SD-DVD I thought it was pretty good picture,,,I'll get back to this thread with my result.

I use DK to impress my friends>>>

HH
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post #18371 of 30525 Old 06-16-2009, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by James W. Johnson View Post

Message to someone from Pioneer Electronics......
Pioneer you need to put progprog on your payroll given the amount of help he has given Kuro 9g Elite owners.

LoL! I was hoping you'd just cut me a check, James! (In reality, I'm in front of a computer most of the time anyway, so it's not that big a deal to have an AVS window open....) How come you're so scarce lately? Just enjoying your TV and new computer?
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post #18372 of 30525 Old 06-16-2009, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by progprog View Post

It kind of surprises me that changing from AUTO to 1080p made such a difference. Usually, AUTO is a setting that determines the input capabilities of your display and sends the highest resolution possible. So I would have thought that, connected to your Kuro, your player would've already been sending 1080p when set to AUTO. But apparently not.

Your right, No difference between AUTO & 1080P, I guess this is what happens when you age, the memory cells don't remember as well as they used to.

HH
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post #18373 of 30525 Old 06-16-2009, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by progprog View Post

LoL! I was hoping you'd just cut me a check, James! (In reality, I'm in front of a computer most of the time anyway, so it's not that big a deal to have an AVS window open....) How come you're so scarce lately? Just enjoying your TV and new computer?

Well I have not been watching alot of TV, it aint like I don't have alot to watch, hell I think I have 15 BDs that I have not even watched yet and I just bought a few more yesterday. lol!
The iMac is great, I am pretty sure I am going to stay a Mac guy. Yesterday I bought an Airport Express (802.11n Wi-Fi) but I am not using the Wi-Fi I am using AirTunes I just plugged it in near my receiver and plugged it in to my Onkyo and I can play all my CDs , the SQ is fantastic.
Yeah , the one thing I never thought id get into was the iTunes and iPod thing, but I did , I am hooked , I love iTunes and my new iPod , I was looking into docks for an iPod on my receiver but then I heard about AirTunes. I got that going yesterday. The SQ is fantastic.
I am Cool Struttin' right now (Sonny Clark)


Sunday I watched LA take the NBA championship.... I just aint much of a baseball fan. I wish football season would hurry up and get here.
The US Open starts Thursday , I will be watching that as much as I can....Tiger should kick some butt there.
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post #18374 of 30525 Old 06-16-2009, 01:09 PM
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Geez and several months back I bought the entire Sopranos series 1-4 in SD , 5-6 BD.

For like $86 shipped off Ebay....it was a smoking deal. Ive seen seasons 1-4 but it has been awhile so I started at Season 1 again, like 4 months ago...I think I am 2 shows into season 2...lol I got tons of stuff to watch on my 151. lol!
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post #18375 of 30525 Old 06-16-2009, 01:11 PM
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Ah geez, I just remembered another....Band of Brothers on BD ..bought it like 2 months ago , watched one show and put it away. LOL!!!
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post #18376 of 30525 Old 06-16-2009, 01:18 PM
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Whats really sad is I stop by Blockbuster still to see if they got anything new in that id like to watch.

Yesterday I picked up 2 BDs at Blockbuster , they got their used BDs at 2/$25 now. I picked up 'Pineapple Express' & 'Zack and Miri Make a Porno'
I have rented both once . That Seth Rogan is funny.
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post #18377 of 30525 Old 06-16-2009, 01:29 PM
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So you've got LOTS to keep you busy. You know, I certainly understand the appeal of Apple technology. They are so good at making things cool and easy to use. But their whole "exclusive" thing always turned me off, even though they've gotten a little better about that. My son uses iTunes and a couple iPods, my daughter is an absolute Apple freak (Mac, Mac notebook, iPhone, iPod....you name it ), but I just can't quite make the leap. I have all my music ripped to flac files, which iTunes isn't as friendly with. Maybe someday....those iPod Touch thingies are pretty cool to play with.....
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post #18378 of 30525 Old 06-16-2009, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by hd_newbie View Post

I really don't think there is something wrong with your display. PS3, set right, is a great blu-ray player. IMO better than BD51.

Do you have a receiver or a video processor? If yes, are you making sure it passes blu-ray through with no processing?

Do your PS3 settings look something like this:
Video Settings
BD/DVD Cinema Conversion: "Automatic"
BD/DVD Upscaler: "Normal"
BD/DVD Video Output Format (HDMI): "Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr"
BD 1080p 24Hz Output: "Automatic"

Display Settings
RGB Full Range (HDMI): "Limited"
Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr Super-White (HDMI): "On"

While watching blu-ray, when you click on "display" button on your Kuro remote, does it say "1080P" on the upper right hand corner?

I would very strongly recommend you use D-Nice Pure settings. If nothing else, dialing in those settings will assure you that there is nothing funny going on in your adjustments.

everyting is set rite and there is no reciever or anyting like that. I have it directly connect via HDMi frfom the ps3 to the tv.
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post #18379 of 30525 Old 06-16-2009, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by James W. Johnson View Post

Well I have not been watching alot of TV, it aint like I don't have alot to watch, hell I think I have 15 BDs that I have not even watched yet and I just bought a few more yesterday. lol!
The iMac is great, I am pretty sure I am going to stay a Mac guy. Yesterday I bought an Airport Express (802.11n Wi-Fi) but I am not using the Wi-Fi I am using AirTunes I just plugged it in near my receiver and plugged it in to my Onkyo and I can play all my CDs , the SQ is fantastic.
Yeah , the one thing I never thought id get into was the iTunes and iPod thing, but I did , I am hooked , I love iTunes and my new iPod , I was looking into docks for an iPod on my receiver but then I heard about AirTunes. I got that going yesterday. The SQ is fantastic.
I am Cool Struttin' right now (Sonny Clark)

I'll try to keep this short and sweet because it is a touch off topic...

Huge Mac fan myself!! I purchased a Wadia 170i transport for my iPod to playback my music through my external Benchmark DAC-1(Digital to Analog Converter).

What is nice about this device is that it bypasses the internal iPod dacs(about $.50 each), and the audio circuitry so the DAC-1(about $900), will do all the processing.

My entire iTunes library resides on a 1TB external hard drive, where ALL the songs reside in AIFF lossless format. Then I use my iPod Touch as a remote(free app), to access any song from my iTunes library and play them back through the DAC-1 connected to my Amplifier and my favorite Dynaudio speakers! Very sweet indeed, and way beyond Star Trek!!

Here is one link that reviews the Wadia 170i. http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/wadia2/dock.html

Feel free to PM me if anyone wants more details about this set-up. I truly feel it's worth the investment, especially if you love music and/or an audiophile like myself!

edited to add: The Wadia and iPod combination can also show your videos and pictures on the Pioneer panels as well!

"Not Enough Hours In A Day"
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post #18380 of 30525 Old 06-16-2009, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by progprog View Post

I really have no idea why it would change. But it's worth checking to make sure it's set right.

  1. Power off the STB and then immediately press the MENU button on the front panel.
  2. With your TV on, you should get a status page that shows the current user settings.
  3. You can use the cursor buttons on the remote to navigate and select options.
  4. Press the MENU or POWER button to exit and save settings.
The YPbPr setting should be 1080i, and 4:3 Override should be 480i.

The jury's still out on this but I may actually prefer the look of the DVR upscaling the 480i to 1080i on my 111. Too early to tell conclusively, but it seems to have a crisper image that may work better for SD letterboxed movies and such. Plus the Wide1 stretch mode in 1080i mode ( which I've gotten used to) is superior to my eye than the SD Wide mode in 408i. The upscaling in the Kuro seems to give everything a really smooth glassy look possibly at the expense of some detail. I do think the Kuro doing the upscaling looks better in 4:3 mode.
Not sure about all of of this though - still checking it out.
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post #18381 of 30525 Old 06-16-2009, 03:47 PM
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Thanks hd_axel ^^ I am sure that Wadia is nice but I am getting a bit perfect signal via AirTunes, no iPod involved it goes straight from my iMac to my Onkyo's Burr Brown DACs.


BTW if you want a great set of phones for an iPod I just got a pair I ordered today, SQ on them is absolutely fantastic!
Sennheiser PX 100s are the best sounding portable foldable headphones I have ever put on my head! And they are under $50. Highly Recommended!!!


Ok , sorry guys ...lets get back on topic!!!....

The PRO-151FD rules them all. Yes the 141 uses hand selected panels but Pioneer does not include the important part of this procedure, the 141 uses hand selected PDPs from the stack of PDPs that were not fit for a PRO-151FD.
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post #18382 of 30525 Old 06-16-2009, 03:51 PM
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If the 141 were better than the 151 it would have been named the 161.
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post #18383 of 30525 Old 06-16-2009, 05:04 PM
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if the 141 were better than the 151 it would have been named the 161.

Good one! LOL.

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post #18384 of 30525 Old 06-16-2009, 05:13 PM
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I noticed something quirky the other day about my 111FD. When I run the break-in slides for a while, the next time I turn the set on(for DTV) the media gallery opens automatically to thumbnail view(screen just before you start slideshow). Is it simply because I am leaving the USB stick in the TV? It just started happening yesterday and not for the first few days of break in.

Edit: It even happens after a few mins of TV watching?

Denon AVR-X2000------>Def Tech PM1000's------>Def Tech PC2000------->Sub(TBD)
Pioneer Pro111FD viewed from 7'------>Picture mode, ISF Day(calibrated by umr)
Sony PS3

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post #18385 of 30525 Old 06-16-2009, 05:14 PM
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Good one! LOL.

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post #18386 of 30525 Old 06-16-2009, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeBloggz View Post

I noticed something quirky the other day about my 111FD. When I run the break-in slides for a while, the next time I turn the set on(for DTV) the media gallery opens automatically to thumbnail view(screen just before you start slideshow). Is it simply because I am leaving the USB stick in the TV? It just started happening yesterday and not for the first few days of break in.

Edit: It even happens after a few mins of TV watching?

Mine does the same thing. After the panel is powered up, it takes about 30 seconds or a minute to recognize that the USB drive is in there, then it opens the media gallery. Seems pretty normal to me.
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post #18387 of 30525 Old 06-16-2009, 05:35 PM
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Mine does the same thing. After the panel is powered up, it takes about 30 seconds or a minute to recognize that the USB drive is in there, then it opens the media gallery. Seems pretty normal to me.

Thanks, Pheww!(wipes sweat from brow..)

Denon AVR-X2000------>Def Tech PM1000's------>Def Tech PC2000------->Sub(TBD)
Pioneer Pro111FD viewed from 7'------>Picture mode, ISF Day(calibrated by umr)
Sony PS3

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post #18388 of 30525 Old 06-16-2009, 05:59 PM
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I agree.


ISF Day is specifically designed to be used in an environment that's inundated with light. In my opinion, it is too "amped" for a room with controlled lighting.

Eliab

Agree 100%. ISF Day is too bright for an even generally light controlled room to the point it can be fatiguing. Unless the blinds are open and the sun is out ISF Night is just right.

If you just need to have the LCD torch mode look to wow your friends who don't know better, it's accurate and much closer in brightness to that.

Isn't it time someone promoted quality as value?
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post #18389 of 30525 Old 06-16-2009, 07:25 PM
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If you just need to have the LCD torch mode look to wow your friends who don't know better......

Life's too short for friends like that...
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post #18390 of 30525 Old 06-16-2009, 07:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I can get a 5010fd brand new for a 1000. What do you guys think?
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