The Official Pioneer 9G Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 694 - AVS Forum
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post #20791 of 30509 Old 10-20-2009, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by skyrocker1 View Post

. . .Also, what is the frequency of the buzzing sound problem that is reported by some owners? Fortunately, I do not have that problem.

Please see this thread for the "Buzz" frequency info you seek: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ight=kuro+buzz

I have not been able to find similar poll results on the pixel issue you raise. If there really isn't one on AVS Forum, perhaps you could start one?

Sorry to hear about your pixel--
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post #20792 of 30509 Old 10-20-2009, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by skyrocker1 View Post

I just purchased a 151 from BB and while running the break-in images, I noticed a dead subpixel in the upper left corner. The pixel turns black in red color, but it shows the green and blue colors correctly; hence it turns cyan when white color is shown.

I know this happens once in a while and Pioneer would find this acceptable but it bothers me a lot having paid top dollars for this unit. The Pioneer QC staff must have "hand picked" the wrong plasma!

My question is, what is the frequency of these pixel problems. I am trying to estimate whether it will be worth the effort to have the unit replaced. If half of the units have a pixel problem, than I would find this acceptable, but if this occurs one percent of the time, I would refuse to be in that (un)lucky one percent.

Also, what is the frequency of the buzzing sound problem that is reported by some owners? Fortunately, I do not have that problem.

Buzzing is for sure more frequent than dead pixels are. Id go exchange it if there are more units available, if there were no other units available then I would live with it as one pixel is not a big deal and the there are not better HDTVs available.

J.W.J.
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post #20793 of 30509 Old 10-20-2009, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by mrmagloo View Post

Regarding wall mounts, I was originally planning to just use the stand for my Pro-151 on my BDI Novia 8429, but after mocking this up against my unfinished walls, my wife is insisting (screaming) this is too low. I don't know but when I went to one knee, to simulate sitting, it seemed around right?

Anyway, to keep her happy, I guess I better start researching wall mounts. I know I've seen some Sanus models that can handle 60" but I wonder if anyone has seen a reasonably priced mount that can tilt and allow some up and down adjustment? I did notice a motorized thing, but that's way out of my price league.

What are you guys using?

You might find this post a helpful place to start your search for wall mounts: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post15818201

BTW--"proper" television height (at least if you use published guidelines as what is proper) is almost always going to look too low when you are standing. However, when you are seated, your neck is really going to be happy if you don't install it too high.
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post #20794 of 30509 Old 10-20-2009, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyrocker1 View Post

I just purchased a 151 from BB and while running the break-in images, I noticed a dead subpixel in the upper left corner. The pixel turns black in red color, but it shows the green and blue colors correctly; hence it turns cyan when white color is shown.

I know this happens once in a while and Pioneer would find this acceptable but it bothers me a lot having paid top dollars for this unit. The Pioneer QC staff must have "hand picked" the wrong plasma!

My question is, what is the frequency of these pixel problems. I am trying to estimate whether it will be worth the effort to have the unit replaced. If half of the units have a pixel problem, than I would find this acceptable, but if this occurs one percent of the time, I would refuse to be in that (un)lucky one percent.

Also, what is the frequency of the buzzing sound problem that is reported by some owners? Fortunately, I do not have that problem.

Those solid-color break-in images highlight pixel problems more than any real content you're likely to watch; try to base your decision on its impact on your real-life viewing experience rather than just annoyance at the idea of it. As mvp2005fan just noted, there's no poll (that I know of) to evaluate dead/stuck pixel occurrence, but based on anecdotal reports in the threads, I would guess that it's not nearly as high as 50%, but considerably higher than 1%. The occurrence of excessive buzz seems higher to me (again, based only on reports here).

These panels are getting hard to find, so I'd be reluctant to reject a quiet panel if that one subpixel isn't problematic with regular content.
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post #20795 of 30509 Old 10-20-2009, 11:17 AM
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You have 1 dead red sub pixel out of 6 million total pixels that you will never detect with normal content from your seating disatance Unfotunately there isn't a manufacturer out there that guarantees you will not have a dead/stick pixel...regardless of price point. Its the nature of the beast... flawed human products.
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Originally Posted by skyrocker1 View Post

I just purchased a 151 from BB and while running the break-in images, I noticed a dead subpixel in the upper left corner. The pixel turns black in red color, but it shows the green and blue colors correctly; hence it turns cyan when white color is shown.

I know this happens once in a while and Pioneer would find this acceptable but it bothers me a lot having paid top dollars for this unit. The Pioneer QC staff must have "hand picked" the wrong plasma!

My question is, what is the frequency of these pixel problems. I am trying to estimate whether it will be worth the effort to have the unit replaced. If half of the units have a pixel problem, than I would find this acceptable, but if this occurs one percent of the time, I would refuse to be in that (un)lucky one percent.

Also, what is the frequency of the buzzing sound problem that is reported by some owners? Fortunately, I do not have that problem.

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post #20796 of 30509 Old 10-20-2009, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by mvp2005fan View Post

BTW--"proper" television height (at least if you use published guidelines as what is proper) is almost always going to look too low when you are standing. However, when you are seated, your neck is really going to be happy if you don't install it too high.

+1

My family thought ours was being mounted too low when I was doing the work but I told them I had this calculated out specifically for our seating height. 6+ months later and we couldn't be happier. I've been to too many peoples' homes where they've mounted their TVs way up on the wall (above fireplaces, etc.) and my neck always suffers. A great rule of thumb is to place the middle of the screen no more than 3" higher than eye level when you are seated. This will seem very low but you will not be sorry.
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d-nice I'd like to take a second to make a plea for you to post the settings for the Panasonic plasmas you havent already posted. Since I own a x1 I have no personel stake in this but I feel for the guys who do have the other panny plasmas. It seems to me after reading the offending posts that the guys who are doing this are all guys who are more advanced in tv tech and they are glad your not posting your settings. While the guys who are waiting on the posts are the guys who are new to hdtv world and they dont want to use other people settings because they see how knowledgable you are, as I do. To me the only people who are suffering are the guys who apprecitate the time and effort you put in to help others. I hope you will reconsider it will make a lot of guys happy and lord knows the world needs more happiness. Thanks Rongo.
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post #20798 of 30509 Old 10-20-2009, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by mvp2005fan View Post

You might find this post a helpful place to start your search for wall mounts: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post15818201

BTW--"proper" television height (at least if you use published guidelines as what is proper) is almost always going to look too low when you are standing. However, when you are seated, your neck is really going to be happy if you don't install it too high.

Thanks mvp - Lots of options to review there! I see you ended up going with the Sanus VMDD26. Although I really don't need the in and out range, does this one go up and down? Thanks!
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post #20799 of 30509 Old 10-20-2009, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by skyrocker1 View Post

I just purchased a 151 from BB and while running the break-in images, I noticed a dead subpixel in the upper left corner.

Do you notice the subpixel when you watch material that you're interested in while seated in a "normal" location?

If not, then you might want to stick with the display that you know, instead of chasing a theoretically perfect display.

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post #20800 of 30509 Old 10-20-2009, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Do you notice the subpixel when you watch material that you're interested in while seated in a "normal" location?

If not, then you might want to stick with the display that you know, instead of chasing a theoretically perfect display.


Thanks to all who replied regarding the pixel and buzzing sound issue. The poll indicates 65% of users own displays without a buzzing sound. If 80% of displays are pixel perfect, then the chance of getting a display without any of the two issues would be just one-half.

May be I will just stick with the display that I know as htwaits suggests. I am more sensitive to noise, so I am glad I have a quiet display.

I have not connected the TV yet to any device I would be watching regularly, but I will do that and see if I can notice the problem pixel from regular viewing distance.
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post #20801 of 30509 Old 10-20-2009, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by skyrocker1 View Post

Thanks to all who replied regarding the pixel and buzzing sound issue. The poll indicates 65% of users own displays without a buzzing sound. If 80% of displays are pixel perfect, then the chance of getting a display without any of the two issues would be just one-half.

May be I will just stick with the display that I know as htwaits suggests. I am more sensitive to noise, so I am glad I have a quiet display.

I have not connected the TV yet to any device I would be watching regularly, but I will do that and see if I can notice the problem pixel from regular viewing distance.

While your math* is a little off, I think you've chosen the right path with this. A dead subpixel, especially one located in a corner of the panel, is unlikely to be bothersome or even detectable during normal use. I suspect you'll be more than happy with your panel once you get things hooked up and actually start using it.

* Because the two problems are unrelated to each other. (Also, it's less than 60% that don't hear a buzz at normal viewing distance.....)
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post #20802 of 30509 Old 10-20-2009, 05:34 PM
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Although I'm probably the newbiest member around here, I can't fathom that using anything other than a bit of distilled water on a microfiber towel is worth the risk, especially when you factor in the cost of such a space aged product. Nothing protects if it doesn't leave a coating, so unless it's specifically recommended by the mfr, why risk it? My .02 fwiw.

It's $14.29 for a 4-oz. container, and marked "Plasma" on the front. Like you, I'm not ready to buy or use it, but it would be interesting to know how well it performs.

Actually, I don't even use distilled water. The microfiber cloth seems good enough. I bought some additional ones, in fact, from Penny Wise office supply.
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post #20803 of 30509 Old 10-21-2009, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by mrmagloo View Post

Thanks mvp - Lots of options to review there! I see you ended up going with the Sanus VMDD26. Although I really don't need the in and out range, does this one go up and down? Thanks!

No it doesn't go up or down. It will tilt upward and downwards from a stationary position and swing about 2.5 feet to the left or right from center position and extend 25 inches forward. Take a look HERE.

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post #20804 of 30509 Old 10-21-2009, 11:44 AM
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Quick tip: Ive heard Best Buy is letting their PRO-151FDs go for 4Gs

J.W.J.
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post #20805 of 30509 Old 10-21-2009, 03:08 PM
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Quick tip: Ive heard Best Buy is letting their PRO-151FDs go for 4Gs

BB has 151fd just under 4Gs but 141fd still at msrp. Stop in two in Md. and one in Va. Happy hunting!!!!
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While your math* is a little off.......
* Because the two problems are unrelated to each other.

His math is fine. 65% no buzz and 80% pixel perfect = 52% with neither problem, EXACTLY. I call 52% and "just one-half" the same in the context of his post.

Calculatingly yours,
Scotty
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post #20807 of 30509 Old 10-21-2009, 08:20 PM
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well I have a dilemma...I am currently watching on a 34xbr960 in my den. I am thinking of getting the 151 for 3.5Gs (after MHT 12% coupon) for my upstairs bonus room. On the other hand, for the same 3.5Gs I can get a 500M to replace my 960 AND a Panny AE4000 for the bonus room. I can't decide which way to go. What would you guys do ?
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well I have a dilemma...I am currently watching on a 34xbr960 in my den. I am thinking of getting the 151 for 3.5Gs (after MHT 12% coupon) for my upstairs bonus room. On the other hand, for the same 3.5Gs I can get a 500M to replace my 960 AND a Panny AE4000 for the bonus room. I can't decide which way to go. What would you guys do ?

Based on the price of the AE4000 I think this would be the way to go. You can get an incredible plasma display to replace the 960 for about 2k and basically create an amazing home theater in the bonus room also for about 2k. To me it would be a no-brainer...
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post #20809 of 30509 Old 10-21-2009, 08:46 PM
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well I have a dilemma...I am currently watching on a 34xbr960 in my den. I am thinking of getting the 151 for 3.5Gs (after MHT 12% coupon) for my upstairs bonus room. On the other hand, for the same 3.5Gs I can get a 500M to replace my 960 AND a Panny AE4000 for the bonus room. I can't decide which way to go. What would you guys do ?

As an owner of a 500M (calibrated by the master D-Nice) and one who has seen the other Pios in action, I must strongly recommend the 500M, it has the best picture of any set I have ever seen. Get one before they are gone forever.

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post #20810 of 30509 Old 10-21-2009, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by mrmagloo View Post

Thanks mvp - Lots of options to review there! I see you ended up going with the Sanus VMDD26. Although I really don't need the in and out range, does this one go up and down? Thanks!

It has a pretty big tilt range (lean forward and back), and you can set the brackets to adjust for height to a certain extent when you first install it, although I don't think it's meant to move up and down as a usual adjustment. Despite this, it would be hard for me to imagine one could not find a good viewing position with all of the adjustments it will do.
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post #20811 of 30509 Old 10-21-2009, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Ranger View Post

well I have a dilemma...I am currently watching on a 34xbr960 in my den. I am thinking of getting the 151 for 3.5Gs (after MHT 12% coupon) for my upstairs bonus room. On the other hand, for the same 3.5Gs I can get a 500M to replace my 960 AND a Panny AE4000 for the bonus room. I can't decide which way to go. What would you guys do ?

Yeah, unless your viewing is (or will be) highly skewed towards the plasma, I'd go the 500M/AE4000 route.

Do you have a projector currently? If not, you may want to purchase that first and see how your viewing pattern shakes out. OTOH, the 500M's may not be available for much longer. Also, if you don't have a second audio setup and either a second video source setup or means to distribute your existing sources, you'll need to budget for those, of course.

I've been using a combo of a Sony KV-30HS420 and an Infocus SP7210. I just got a 500M, myself, but its been sitting in the box while I finish up some remodeling (I can't trust myself not to spend precious drywalling/painting/wire running time watching movies and playing 360 ). I really appreciate having a cheap, reliable direct-view set for miscellaneous viewing during the day and then the projector for quality viewing later at night. The 500M adds a third option in between the two that I think will see a lot of use. The Sony will be moved to my den.

Also, there's no comparison between a 100" screen and a 60" screen. Even though no projector I'm aware of can match the Kuros in many respects, there's something about the big screen and "feel" of projection that really transcends any relative lack in terms of contrast or color fidelity, though, by all accounts, the AE4000 excels in these areas.

I'm a big CRT/Plasma/DLP guy when it comes to display technologies, but the AE4000 is the first LCD projector that I feel like I'd really like to demo and put through its paces. Panasonic seems to have put a lot of work into improving the performance and featureset, year after year. Its pretty clever, when you think about it, to just take a proven chassis/design and try to wring more performance out of it with every revision. This is something that doesn't seem to be happening when it comes to DLP projectors, right now. Infocus had been on that track, for a while, but they seemed to have lost their way a bit recently and fallen behind in terms of performance.

I say go for it. IMO, you'll never miss those 10" when you can go in the next room and get 100" or more (that's what she said).
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post #20812 of 30509 Old 10-21-2009, 10:04 PM
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Yeah, unless your viewing is (or will be) highly skewed towards the plasma, I'd go the 500M/AE4000 route.

Do you have a projector currently? If not, you may want to purchase that first and see how your viewing pattern shakes out. OTOH, the 500M's may not be available for much longer. Also, if you don't have a second audio setup and either a second video source setup or means to distribute your existing sources, you'll need to budget for those, of course.

I've been using a combo of a Sony KV-30HS420 and an Infocus SP7210. I just got a 500M, myself, but its been sitting in the box while I finish up some remodeling (I can't trust myself not to spend precious drywalling/painting/wire running time watching movies and playing 360 ). I really appreciate having a cheap, reliable direct-view set for miscellaneous viewing during the day and then the projector for quality viewing later at night. The 500M adds a third option in between the two that I think will see a lot of use. The Sony will be moved to my den.

Also, there's no comparison between a 100" screen and a 60" screen. Even though no projector I'm aware of can match the Kuros in many respects, there's something about the big screen and "feel" of projection that really transcends any relative lack in terms of contrast or color fidelity, though, by all accounts, the AE4000 excels in these areas.

I'm a big CRT/Plasma/DLP guy when it comes to display technologies, but the AE4000 is the first LCD projector that I feel like I'd really like to demo and put through its paces. Panasonic seems to have put a lot of work into improving the performance and featureset, year after year. Its pretty clever, when you think about it, to just take a proven chassis/design and try to wring more performance out of it with every revision. This is something that doesn't seem to be happening when it comes to DLP projectors, right now. Infocus had been on that track, for a while, but they seemed to have lost their way a bit recently and fallen behind in terms of performance.

I say go for it. IMO, you'll never miss those 10" when you can go in the next room and get 100" or more (that's what she said).

Thank you guys. Yes I am leaning towards the 500M/AE4000 route. It's better to have two toys to play with I'll use the 500M for casual TV viewing and AE4000 for occasional blu ray movies and sports at night. I am sure after a while with 151 I'd want to go bigger for watching movies.
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post #20813 of 30509 Old 10-22-2009, 06:02 AM
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Wow ... best all. But why the faster setup nice.

What?

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What?

Thank you....I wasn't sure how to ask!
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post #20815 of 30509 Old 10-23-2009, 09:09 AM
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Got a strange one here - Hope it's not a problem? I've been running the 150 thumbdrive since Saturday continuously, and it's been running fine. I did give it an hour break on Tuesday, but has been running fine.

To ensure a power outage didn't lock it on to a menu during the day for an extended period, I have it running through a Smart 1000 UPS. The TV seems to be running cool, and no problems at all.

However, this morning as I was leaving for work, I checked on it and noticed it was off and the blue light was flashing in sequence of 9 blinks, then cycling again the same 9 blinks again. The UPS was fine, and checking around the house, we did not loose power and all was well.

I flipped the switch on the bottom left off then on, and it fired right up. It started up fine, and I restarted the Thumbdrive and watched it for a couple of cycles and all was fine again. I called my wife and she said it was still running when she left 1/2 hour earlier, so it seems I caught it quickly, and shouldn't effect my breakin hours calculation, which is right around 140 hours now. (Almost done!)

Anyway, while I hope the thing is running when I get home tonight, and it seems that I recovered OK, does anyone know what the sequence of the blue light blinking 9 times means? I've tried searching, and can't find anything.

Thanks.
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post #20816 of 30509 Old 10-23-2009, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by mrmagloo View Post

Got a strange one here - Hope it's not a problem? I've been running the 150 thumbdrive since Saturday continuously, and it's been running fine. I did give it an hour break on Tuesday, but has been running fine.

To ensure a power outage didn't lock it on to a menu during the day for an extended period, I have it running through a Smart 1000 UPS. The TV seems to be running cool, and no problems at all.

However, this morning as I was leaving for work, I checked on it and noticed it was off and the blue light was flashing in sequence of 9 blinks, then cycling again the same 9 blinks again. The UPS was fine, and checking around the house, we did not loose power and all was well.

I flipped the switch on the bottom left off then on, and it fired right up. It started up fine, and I restarted the Thumbdrive and watched it for a couple of cycles and all was fine again. I called my wife and she said it was still running when she left 1/2 hour earlier, so it seems I caught it quickly, and shouldn't effect my breakin hours calculation, which is right around 140 hours now. (Almost done!)

Anyway, while I hope the thing is running when I get home tonight, and it seems that I recovered OK, does anyone know what the sequence of the blue light blinking 9 times means? I've tried searching, and can't find anything.

Thanks.

I don't know all the error codes, but something similar has come up before. Doesn't sound good to me; I think it might be time for a service call.
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post #20817 of 30509 Old 10-23-2009, 10:26 AM
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Hmm, I guess it happens again, or it's off when I get home, that'll answer this easy enough. I did read that one or onw similar, but didn't see a clear reference to what light was flahsing, and how many times. I'm sure that 9 times means something pretty specifically. Maybe I'll call Pioneer for kicks.
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post #20818 of 30509 Old 10-23-2009, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmagloo View Post

Hmm, I guess it happens again, or it's off when I get home, that'll answer this easy enough. I did read that one or onw similar, but didn't see a clear reference to what light was flahsing, and how many times. I'm sure that 9 times means something pretty specifically. Maybe I'll call Pioneer for kicks.

Good idea. I hope it's nothing or something easily resolved. Good luck.
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post #20819 of 30509 Old 10-23-2009, 10:56 AM
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Well, I decided to call Pioneer, and eventually got to a tech. He said that he's never heard of a 9 blink problem, but looked it up and it said:

Communication Error. Nothing else - two words.

He essentially said if it fired right back up and is working fine, he wouldn't worry about it unless it happens again. He said some of the blue blinking light errors are pretty trivial like loose speaker connection and things like that.

He said if it won't restart right away or the red light are blinking are real issues to worry about.

Don't know if that helps, but we'll see what's happening when I get home tonight? I've got my fingers crossed.
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post #20820 of 30509 Old 10-23-2009, 01:23 PM
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Communication error most likely refers to a USB issue I would think. There could have been some disruption on the USB port or the thumbdrive itself may have had an error, etc., etc. Sounds like nothing to worry about unless it happens again. Then, before you push the panic button, try a different thumbdrive.
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