The Official Pioneer 9G Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 712 - AVS Forum
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post #21331 of 30646 Old 12-02-2009, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by hd_axel View Post

The program guide on DirecTV is great ...

Okay then.


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post #21332 of 30646 Old 12-02-2009, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by hd_axel View Post

The PQ.

The program guide on DirecTV is great when it comes to searching programs, seeing future programs etc., and DVR function. If those are "Bells and Whistles", then yes that's important too!

I have DirecTV and I personally do not care for their search feature (I'm running the beta firmware with the better search function and MRV). I would rate their PQ second only to FiOS though (mpeg4 HD channels only).


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post #21333 of 30646 Old 12-02-2009, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Are you more interested in bells and whistles or actual PQ? FiOS is the reference of which all other providers are compared to.... very similar to how the Kuro is the benchmark for displays

Sold!
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Originally Posted by RichardMcCarty View Post

Hey, David! Do grab a Kuro while you can. I'm stunned every time I watch my new 151!

Dont tell that to omeletpants.

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post #21334 of 30646 Old 12-02-2009, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by gwrace View Post

I hope this is not off-topic but I just found out a couple of days ago that Pioneer is dropping out of this market. I've been admiring the Kuro Elite line since they were introduced. I don't see anyone locally that has these units in stock so I'll be picking up one online hopefully from an authorized dealer. I've found a couple on Ebay but am looking for other suggestions and discount price offers if any still exist. Any feedback is appreciated.

David

My local Magnolia has them, but they are currently clearing them at close-out prices. Since they are associated with Best Buy, perhaps you could contact the closest BB and see if they can track one down for you. I suspect the 151s will go from "hard to find" to "gone" very soon, so I'd grab one any way you can, if that's what it comes to.
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post #21335 of 30646 Old 12-02-2009, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by hd_axel View Post

How is FIOS TV compared to DirecTV, PQ wise on HD content? I heard the interactive guide/channel guide is far superior with DirecTV than it is with FIOS. Is this true?

Hi hd_axel,

I have FiOS with their DVR. The picture quality cannot be beat by any cable or sat system. They have oddles of bandwidth and do not have to compress thier channels as much as other systems do. They generally have most of the HD channels - sometimes more than others and sometimes slightly less.

As far as their DVR, it certainly is not as good as others, but also is 100% usable. I used to have an HD Tivo when DirecTV supported them and admittedly the Tivo UI is much better than the FiOS one but again I can get what I want done on the FiOS DVR so switching over to the Tivo is not worth it to me.

Gerry
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post #21336 of 30646 Old 12-02-2009, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I have DirecTV and I personally do not care for their search feature (I'm running the beta firmware with the better search function and MRV). I would rate their PQ second only to FiOS though (mpeg4 HD channels only).

Thanks, the HD channels are key! It's tough to watch SD for any prolonged periods after viewing HD content...

FIOS is installed in my area but not activated yet. They're getting closer to my neighborhood and have been offering different deals/promos, so I may be hooking up soon.

"Not Enough Hours In A Day"
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post #21337 of 30646 Old 12-02-2009, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerryex View Post

Hi hd_axel,

I have FiOS with their DVR. The picture quality cannot be beat by any cable or sat system. They have oddles of bandwidth and do not have to compress thier channels as much as other systems do. They generally have most of the HD channels - sometimes more than others and sometimes slightly less.

As far as their DVR, it certainly is not as good as others, but also is 100% usable. I used to have an HD Tivo when DirecTV supported them and admittedly the Tivo UI is much better than the FiOS one but again I can get what I want done on the FiOS DVR so switching over to the Tivo is not worth it to me.

Gerry

Thank you!

What do you mean by; "They generally have most of the HD channels - sometimes more than others and sometimes slightly less."
Are you saying for example, some days you get History HD and some days not?

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post #21338 of 30646 Old 12-02-2009, 06:00 PM
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FIOS has *all* the usual and expected HD channels. It also has a few additional HD channels, that aren't available from (some) other providers. And, it also lacks a few (very few) HD channels that are offered by other providers.

In short, most of these "other" HD channels are generally crap channels (eg. the.tv channels) that most people don't care about. Their presence or absence from the FIOS HD lineup, IMHO, is not relevant. Although, some people might disagree with that statement.

The bottom line is PQ. FIOS HD is the clear winner there. What's the point of having extra channels (that you probably don't care about), if your provider has to (and almost always does) compress the sh*t out of all their channels to make room? FIOS does NOT compress their HD channels.

Isn't that why we got our KURO's? To obtain the best PQ on the planet? If you want to have the best PQ possible, you will need to have FIOS HD (and, of course a good BD player... might I suggest the Oppo BDP-83 )

-steve

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post #21339 of 30646 Old 12-02-2009, 07:10 PM
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I have DirecTV and have no complaints. MPEG4 channels look amazing. Never seen a FIOS feed since they do not provide service anywhere near me (at least not that I am aware of). It would be difficult to sell me that the FIOS HD channels look leaps and bounds better. Better maybe, but I wonder if most could tell the difference.

Also, if FIOS DVRs are Motorola then I wouldn't switch if their service was free.

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post #21340 of 30646 Old 12-02-2009, 07:26 PM
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IMHO.... PQ > DVR.

The Moto DVR is not ideal, but it does its basic functions OK. But then again, I don't have a need to record uber-hours of programming.

I had DirecTV. It was very nice. Except when it rained, snowed or sunspots. It was better than the Comcrap service I had prior... and FIOS is better than DirecTV (for me).

-steve

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post #21341 of 30646 Old 12-02-2009, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickff View Post

I have DirecTV and have no complaints. MPEG4 channels look amazing. Never seen a FIOS feed since they do not provide service anywhere near me (at least not that I am aware of). It would be difficult to sell me that the FIOS HD channels look leaps and bounds better. Better maybe, but I wonder if most could tell the difference.

Also, if FIOS DVRs are Motorola then I wouldn't switch if their service was free.

They are better. I have not seen anyone who has had Comcast, BHN, Dish, Direct TV say their service was better than or even equal to FIOS.

With that said in some cases HD quality varies on networks because the source of the TV show is not as good as others.

I cant believe how life-like some channels are on my Elite 111/151s....
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post #21342 of 30646 Old 12-02-2009, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

I have a friend in the AV business who switched from DTV to FiOS. He likes the quality but hates the DVR and switched to a TiVo. He hasn't commented on the decoder quality so I assume it's still better than DTV.

Just got my home media DVR from fios today and feel the same. Think I'll start saving up for a Moxi bundle.


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post #21343 of 30646 Old 12-03-2009, 02:34 AM
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Hi I was just wondering if there is suppose to be a tiny black border on the screen of the kuro 141. I was just curious. Thanks.
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post #21344 of 30646 Old 12-03-2009, 06:06 AM
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Yes. and if you get a flashlight and look close you will see that

It's normal and OK.

-steve

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post #21345 of 30646 Old 12-03-2009, 08:03 AM
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Two questions:

1) Is it normal to see flickering background lines on motion, sometimes even when the picture is still? I take it that this is compression from my satellite provider as it goes away when the picture is on pause.

2) Does running the video pattern affect picture quality at all? Should I be worried that if I run it too much that I might damage the screen or quality of the picture or is running the video pattern no problem.
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post #21346 of 30646 Old 12-03-2009, 09:19 AM
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DirecTV has the NFL Sunday Ticket. Until another carrier gets that, I'll never change. I've been very happy with DirecTV and outages due to weather are very few and far between and when they do happen, very short lived. My brother has UVerse and as far as I'm concerned, it sucks.
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post #21347 of 30646 Old 12-03-2009, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_b View Post

Two questions:

1) Is it normal to see flickering background lines on motion, sometimes even when the picture is still? I take it that this is compression from my satellite provider as it goes away when the picture is on pause.

2) Does running the video pattern affect picture quality at all? Should I be worried that if I run it too much that I might damage the screen or quality of the picture or is running the video pattern no problem.

1) I'm not sure what you mean by "flickering" lines, but streaking and other artifacts are very common in highly-compressed signals. I assume you only see this with the sat box, not blu-ray?

2) It doesn't damage the screen or PQ. In fact, if your viewing habits lean very heavily toward content with the same masking bars or static images, running the Video Pattern would help prevent potential IR and BI. Now those would damage PQ.
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post #21348 of 30646 Old 12-03-2009, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardMcCarty View Post

Hey, David! Do grab a Kuro while you can. I'm stunned every time I watch my new 151!

Reviews overwhelmingly favor the Pioneer.

I got my purchase down to a Kuro Pro-151FD or a Panasonic V10 65". The Panny just didn't offer the same picture quality. (IMHO). Seems like I can pick up the Pioneer Elite 60" for about $500 more. I should have it ordered and on it's way by this weekend. Just could not resist picking up the best of a dying breed...
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post #21349 of 30646 Old 12-03-2009, 11:59 AM
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Our experience mirrors yours. We went to Magnolia wanting to see the Samsung 8500 LED-LCD before purchasing the Panasonic V10 65". The salesman showed us the 151FD next to the Panny and my wife (am I lucky or what?) chose the Kuro without hesitation.

It is one stunningly awesome TV. Have fun!
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post #21350 of 30646 Old 12-03-2009, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

1) I'm not sure what you mean by "flickering" lines, but streaking and other artifacts are very common in highly-compressed signals. I assume you only see this with the sat box, not blu-ray?

2) It doesn't damage the screen or PQ. In fact, if your viewing habits lean very heavily toward content with the same masking bars or static images, running the Video Pattern would help prevent potential IR and BI. Now those would damage PQ.

By "flickering" here are a few examples of what I would be referring to. Lets say I was watching something and there was a window in the background. As soon as there was movement, the edges around the window would show a type of noise that looks like a flicker. Noise is probably the more appropriate word. As soon as the pvr is on pause, it's gone. Another example would be watching wrestling. If you've ever seen a WWE HD show, the boarders around the WWEHD logo in the upper left corner has the same noise on movement. This varies with the channel I'm watching and I've also seen it around white ring ropes during movement as well, but only during movement. Which makes me believe it is satellite compression related. Also the fact that it varies depending on the channel. I have not noticed it as much on Blu Ray. The Dark Knight opening scene where there is a zoom on all the buildings I see it very briefly, but I've seen this on other HDTV's as well.

I've also noticed this on PS3 games, more so NCAA 10.
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post #21351 of 30646 Old 12-03-2009, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardMcCarty View Post

Our experience mirrors yours. We went to Magnolia wanting to see the Samsung 8500 LED-LCD before purchasing the Panasonic V10 65". The salesman showed us the 151FD next to the Panny and my wife (am I lucky or what?) chose the Kuro without hesitation.

It is one stunningly awesome TV. Have fun!

If only every shopper was like your wife pioneer would still be here.

Im also surprised she didn't pick the V10 seeing how its 5" bigger. its not that noticeable though.

home theater addict
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post #21352 of 30646 Old 12-03-2009, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by RichardMcCarty View Post

Our experience mirrors yours. We went to Magnolia wanting to see the Samsung 8500 LED-LCD before purchasing the Panasonic V10 65". The salesman showed us the 151FD next to the Panny and my wife (am I lucky or what?) chose the Kuro without hesitation.

It is one stunningly awesome TV. Have fun!



That is one smart woman (and one lucky man)!

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post #21353 of 30646 Old 12-04-2009, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardMcCarty View Post

Our experience mirrors yours. We went to Magnolia wanting to see the Samsung 8500 LED-LCD before purchasing the Panasonic V10 65". The salesman showed us the 151FD next to the Panny and my wife (am I lucky or what?) chose the Kuro without hesitation.

It is one stunningly awesome TV. Have fun!

story repeats! happened same to me @ magnolia lol
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post #21354 of 30646 Old 12-04-2009, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardMcCarty View Post

Our experience mirrors yours. We went to Magnolia wanting to see the Samsung 8500 LED-LCD before purchasing the Panasonic V10 65". The salesman showed us the 151FD next to the Panny and my wife (am I lucky or what?) chose the Kuro without hesitation.
It is one stunningly awesome TV. Have fun!

Hi ALL,

This is similar to my exchange/upgrade from my dying Sony SXRD under the BB EW to the 151. I was assuming I would get the Panny but the Kuro blew it away!! HOWEVER the reason I think this is hapening more is that BB is now discounting the Pioneers since no more are coming in. Take the 151 that I got. Its list price was $6,500! Now I know with some good shopping it could have been found for less, but that still is a very expensive TV! I doubt very much that I could have gotten it for the exchange if BB was not dropping its price.

So while we all agree the Pioneers are the best plasmas around if Pioneer were able to make the same TV at a lower price point then they still would have been in the TV business. I just consider myself lucky I was able to get one!!

Gerry
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post #21355 of 30646 Old 12-04-2009, 11:14 AM
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Its list price was $6,500! Now I know with some good shopping it could have been found for less, but that still is a very expensive TV! I doubt very much that I could have gotten it for the exchange if BB was not dropping its price.

It was on sale at BB not that long ago for around $4000 but prices are bouncing up again as supplies dwindle. Great deal.
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post #21356 of 30646 Old 12-04-2009, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by JonW747 View Post

It was on sale at BB not that long ago for around $4000 but prices are bouncing up again as supplies dwindle. Great deal.

Do you know if the monitors (141 and 101) are as "gone" as the 111? The only Kuros I really hear about people still buying are the KRPs and the 151.
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post #21357 of 30646 Old 12-04-2009, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Do you know if the monitors (141 and 101) are as "gone" as the 111? The only Kuros I really hear about people still buying are the KRPs and the 151.

I inquired about the 141 last week and they are also dwindling badly. There were about 2 left in the DC Metro area.
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post #21358 of 30646 Old 12-05-2009, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Cazz View Post

I will rent a bluray & watch it (own a BDP23) and go from there...thanks for the feedback so far.

I also own a PRO-111FD and just got my very first Bluray player (the same BD 23FD Elite).
If watching the bluray movie and the image quality is still bad, for your own peace of mind, take this unit back immediatelly. You are getting close to the 30 days from buying, which most of stores will exchange it with no/to little questions asked.
Pioneers are awesome, but with the latest sets since 2007, made "with parts from Japan and US, assembled in US (or Mexico)" or forget about made in Japan alltogether, I had a surprise myself (read this on the back of your panel).
The 111FD I currently own, is an upgrade from my previous 110FD bought in 2007. That one had 3 dead pixels and that to me was unacceptable. I did the 150 hours break-in DVD, and the 3 dead pixels were still there, so I sent it back after 2 weeks (I know, I am a freak ) I got a new one - it also had 1 dead pixel - but what to do? Of course when watching TV nobody could see it, so I lived with it, since I couldn't keep exchanging them. So they are not exactly "perfection"...
The new 111FD I got in April is visibly better than the 110FD - the "5 times deeper blacks than the previous 8G" is true!
I am glued to it day and night - the HD pic is amazing! Yes, cable companies (RCN here) broadcast only in 1080i - yet, and no FIOS available in my area...
Good Luck and let us know how it goes.

[~~~~Oh, and about the BD-23FD Pio Bluray Player, the BB had it on sale on Blak Friday. I was not ready to buy it at the 6 hundred price, and maybe expected none to 10% off, but was I in for a pleasant surprise - 51% off!! I could not believe my ears when the guy told me. I paid right under 3hndr (I know I can't say exact number/prices here). It was Not an open-item/Not a refurbished - it was brand new, and same offer at all their stores (he showed me the area inventory on his computer). None of this offer was on the website, nor in a sales flier, nor on display - they don't even have the 23FD on the shelves, u have to ask for it.~~~~]
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post #21359 of 30646 Old 12-05-2009, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by stevec325 View Post

FIOS has *all* the usual and expected HD channels. It also has a few additional HD channels, that aren't available from (some) other providers. And, it also lacks a few (very few) HD channels that are offered by other providers.

In short, most of these "other" HD channels are generally crap channels (eg. the.tv channels) that most people don't care about. Their presence or absence from the FIOS HD lineup, IMHO, is not relevant. Although, some people might disagree with that statement.

The bottom line is PQ. FIOS HD is the clear winner there. What's the point of having extra channels (that you probably don't care about), if your provider has to (and almost always does) compress the sh*t out of all their channels to make room? FIOS does NOT compress their HD channels.

Isn't that why we got our KURO's? To obtain the best PQ on the planet? If you want to have the best PQ possible, you will need to have FIOS HD (and, of course a good BD player... might I suggest the Oppo BDP-83 )

Unfortunately, FIOS does not have all my local teams' HD coverage as Cablevision does. Otherwise I would get FIOS.

And DirecTV also has the option of ALL the HD games on their sports packages rather than just a few select games each day. But DirecTV is not available in my location yet.

For a person who is mainly a sports fan, there's unfortunately other considerations beyond just PQ. Not disagreeing with your point though. All things being equal, I would go for FIOS. Unfortunately in my area, they're not equal.
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post #21360 of 30646 Old 12-05-2009, 09:21 AM
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And DirecTV also has the option of ALL the HD games on their sports packages rather than just a few select games each day. But DirecTV is not available in my location yet.


Seeing as you are in NY, how can you be in a area where Direct TV is not available? Direct TV is pretty much available anywhere in the US as long as you can aim a satellite dish and get their signals. Unless you are in apartment building and can not install a dish, or some other place where it would be impossible to put up a DTV satellite dish, you should be able to get Direct TV.
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