The Official Pioneer 9G Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 715 - AVS Forum
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post #21421 of 30503 Old 12-08-2009, 03:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpc View Post

Fair enough. Of the places I'm shopping for one of these TV's, they are not close by, and some are far enough away (1 to 1.5 hours drive on the highway) that the charge for delivery would be quite a bit. Best case scenario would be free delivery, as I'm looking to that, but I'm figuring out the other options if I must transport it myself.

Another question for you Pioneer Elite Plasma owners (so many questions!).

I'm deciding whether or not I keep my DVDO VP50. It's a tough call, as it is a useful device. If I can get along without out, I may try. I asked earlier about the video processing of the Pioneer Elite TV's and monitors and I did get a couple of responses saying the Pio vid processing is less than spectacular for 480i film and video dvd's and some HDTV signals. 1080i to 1080p seems ok.

What video processing are folks using for film and video dvd's, Blu-Ray (not necessary I guess as 1080p is 1080p) and SDTV and HDTV signals?

DVDO VP50 or EDGE or similar?
Toshiba XA2 or faroudja de-interlacer for dvd's?
Other de-interlacer?
Receiver video processing?
Nothing, you use the Pioneer plasma's de-interlacing, video processing/upscaling etc and you are ok with it.

I have an iScan Duo (recently acquired) and use it for all my sources. It's principal functions are as a hub and to help out lower-rez sources. Plus, I have more non-HDMI devices than the 111 has inputs for, so the VP's hub function is important for me. I do see a difference with laserdiscs over letting my 111 process them, and there are differences with cable, even HD cable (those are much more subtle, however). I still watch SD stations and I much prefer the Duo's scaling over the 111's.

I have an Oppo 83 and a Pioneer 09, and they are set to either Auto or Source Direct depending on how I choose to go. The Oppo has the same chip as the Duo and the EDGE it replaced, so I can't say I saw much difference with/without the VP in the chain, except perhaps the 83 (set to Auto) seemed a bit softer. I didn't really try the 09 this way. The VP is always set to Auto output.

I'd say pick whatever looks better to you, or the cheapest alternative you can live with, and go for that.
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post #21422 of 30503 Old 12-08-2009, 03:13 AM
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Good feedback. Just realized the monitor has no S-video, that is something to keep in mind.
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post #21423 of 30503 Old 12-08-2009, 06:43 AM
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I was going to get the Oppo 83 but found a new Elite 49 DVD player at very good price and thus grabbed it. I am now using it for my DVD collection and my PS3 slim for blu ray discs.

Surprisingly, the 49 does a great job of upconverting DVD material to 1080p, much better than the scaler on my pio 101, my PS3 and marginally better than Panasonic BDP80 which I have tried before. Honestly, sitting at a distance of 8.5 feet, image quality on most of my DVD movies comes quite close to blu ray discs on my 50" plasma. I suspect the Anchor Bay chips in Oppo 83 may be more superior on DVD playback but I am unsure how much better it can do on this screen size. I am quite satisfy with performance of the 49. Someone in another forum has compared Elite 49 with Oppo 980 and his opinion was that they perform very close in PQ but 49 out-shined 980 in the SQ department, especially on analog audio.

I am sure Oppo 83 will provide a more all-rounded performance/features to my system but from a economy of scale perspective, I could save up $ for other resources by just keeping my 49/PS3 combo.

By the way, I found that the scaler on 101 seems to do a better job upconverting SD TV signal through component vs. HDMI input. Not sure if anyone has compared these with their TV cable box output.

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post #21424 of 30503 Old 12-08-2009, 11:27 AM
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hey guys I have a question:

If you were not able to get a 500m since nothing else of Pioneer is really available, if you could still get a 5010 (which are still out their) would you purchase one or go with a new panny v10?
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post #21425 of 30503 Old 12-08-2009, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STILESP113 View Post

hey guys I have a question:

If you were not able to get a 500m since nothing else of Pioneer is really available, if you could still get a 5010 (which are still out their) would you purchase one or go with a new panny v10?

1. I believe 500M's are still available

2. If I couldn't get a Pioneer, I'd just wait and see what Panny is rolling out at CES in January.
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post #21426 of 30503 Old 12-08-2009, 12:38 PM
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^^^But by the time i get around to the money for a 500m they will most likely be gone thats why i said i could get a 5010 for a good prive brand new.the new pannys dont even match 8g kuro black levels yet, but are close but still not there. Why do you say just wait and not grab one of the 5010 (which will still have a superb pq, no DSE, and full color control.)
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post #21427 of 30503 Old 12-08-2009, 12:39 PM
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the 5010 mite be gone as well so panny may be my only option. just to many issues with panny and i experienced none except for that annoying buzz on my 111fd
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post #21428 of 30503 Old 12-08-2009, 01:16 PM
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I wonder if a Cargo van would work to transport the TV in box?
What size van would be big enough?

I suppose the question of whether or not I part with my DVDO VP50 if I choose a Pio Elite Plasma instead of going back to projection would be something best tested out.
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post #21429 of 30503 Old 12-08-2009, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STILESP113 View Post

^^^But by the time i get around to the money for a 500m they will most likely be gone thats why i said i could get a 5010 for a good prive brand new.the new pannys dont even match 8g kuro black levels yet, but are close but still not there. Why do you say just wait and not grab one of the 5010 (which will still have a superb pq, no DSE, and full color control.)

Isn't the 5010 the 8G model? Do you mean that one or the 5020FD?
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post #21430 of 30503 Old 12-08-2009, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpc View Post

I wonder if a Cargo van would work to transport the TV in box?
What size van would be big enough?

I suppose the question of whether or not I part with my DVDO VP50 if I choose a Pio Elite Plasma instead of going back to projection would be something best tested out.

My 500M and 600M were both carried in Value Electronics' installers' workman-type van.
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post #21431 of 30503 Old 12-08-2009, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpc View Post

I wonder if a Cargo van would work to transport the TV in box?
What size van would be big enough?

I suppose the question of whether or not I part with my DVDO VP50 if I choose a Pio Elite Plasma instead of going back to projection would be something best tested out.

I'm guessing that those 500M & 600M boxes are not very deep since they don't have stands packed in there. (Same with the 141.) As I've mentioned, I was able to fit a 111FD box into the back of my small SUV, and that box is quite deep since the stand is already attached. I wouldn't think you'd need a big cargo van for any of these things....just a regular family van with folded or removed seats would probably work fine.
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post #21432 of 30503 Old 12-08-2009, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

I'm guessing that those 500M & 600M boxes are not very deep since they don't have stands packed in there. (Same with the 141.) As I've mentioned, I was able to fit a 111FD box into the back of my small SUV, and that box is quite deep since the stand is already attached. I wouldn't think you'd need a big cargo van for any of these things....just a regular family van with folded or removed seats would probably work fine.

True, many have said they had the 141 Plasma laying flat in a mini-van with the seats removed. The issue is, if I cannot borrow a mini-van and/or have a friend with a mini-van help me out with the move, then I'd have to rent. Renting a mini-van is twice as much as a cargo van. Gas is more expensive in the cargo van, but not so much to make the mini-van a better deal.
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post #21433 of 30503 Old 12-08-2009, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpc View Post

True, many have said they had the 141 Plasma laying flat in a mini-van with the seats removed. The issue is, if I cannot borrow a mini-van and/or have a friend with a mini-van help me out with the move, then I'd have to rent. Renting a mini-van is twice as much as a cargo van. Gas is more expensive in the cargo van, but not so much to make the mini-van a better deal.

I don't know what your options are there, but here, Home Depot lets your rent a pick-up for $19.95.
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post #21434 of 30503 Old 12-08-2009, 03:01 PM
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Please... whatever transport mode you chose... DO NOT LAY THE PANEL DOWN.

Transport it upright.

-steve
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post #21435 of 30503 Old 12-08-2009, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevec325 View Post

Please... whatever transport mode you chose... DO NOT LAY THE PANEL DOWN.

Transport it upright.

That's probably a good idea when it's possible, but in truth, these things get laid flat all the time. (When the grunts at Magnolia were helping me load my 151 into my pick-up and I wanted it upright, they all snickered and said they frequently lay them flat in their own delivery trucks so that they don't have to strap them.) I've transported them both ways and never had a problem.

PS: In hindsight, now that I've seen how the 111s are not packed nearly as well as the 60" panels, I'd recommend upright transport for those, or great care to avoid torquing the box and therefore the panel.
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post #21436 of 30503 Old 12-08-2009, 03:12 PM
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If they are being laid flat, then someone removed the pallet on which the carton was strapped down. They come from the factory, vertically strapped to a wood pallet.

Glad to hear that you didn't have any damage by transporting flat

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post #21437 of 30503 Old 12-08-2009, 03:30 PM
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I'm sure that once they get into the local distribution chain, many places have to just manhandle them, as they may not have forklifts or powerlifts at every transfer point. But you're certainly right about Pioneer's preference- the boxes are clearly marked for upright handling.
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post #21438 of 30503 Old 12-08-2009, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpc View Post

True, many have said they had the 141 Plasma laying flat in a mini-van with the seats removed.

I'm not sure how you define many but I'd say a few people have said they transported a 141 flat. You might want to check in the 141 thread for specifics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevec325 View Post

Please... whatever transport mode you chose... DO NOT LAY THE PANEL DOWN.

Panasonic made a huge deal about this. Pioneer doesn't so much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

That's probably a good idea when it's possible, but in truth, these things get laid flat all the time.
...

PS: In hindsight, now that I've seen how the 111s are not packed nearly as well as the 60" panels, I'd recommend upright transport for those, or great care to avoid torquing the box and therefore the panel.

The 141 packaging doesn't look that different from the other monitors and the volume of 600M damage reports is daunting. At least one other non-KRP 60" was reported cracked on delivery. If it's being delivered to your house it's not your money but I wouldn't want to arrive home and find out the cost of a new panel has become an unexpected expenditure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevec325 View Post

If they are being laid flat, then someone removed the pallet on which the carton was strapped down. They come from the factory, vertically strapped to a wood pallet.

Mine did but someone claimed that wasn't always the case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

I'm sure that once they get into the local distribution chain, many places have to just manhandle them, as they may not have forklifts or powerlifts at every transfer point.

Again this is on the seller's dime. If I was buying a multi-thousand dollar panel I would have it delivered if at all possible and failing that I'd rent appropriate transport and pack carefully. I think anything else is being penny-wise and pound-foolish.
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post #21439 of 30503 Old 12-08-2009, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

I'm not sure how you define many but I'd say a few people have said they transported a 141 flat. You might want to check in the 141 thread for specifics.



Panasonic made a huge deal about this. Pioneer doesn't so much.


The 141 packaging doesn't look that different from the other monitors and the volume of 600M damage reports is daunting. At least one other non-KRP 60" was reported cracked on delivery. If it's being delivered to your house it's not your money but I wouldn't want to arrive home and find out the cost of a new panel has become an unexpected expenditure.


Mine did but someone claimed that wasn't always the case.



Again this is on the seller's dime. If I was buying a multi-thousand dollar panel I would have it delivered if at all possible and failing that I'd rent appropriate transport and pack carefully. I think anything else is being penny-wise and pound-foolish.

Regarding the very last quote - I entirely agree. I bought mine from a highly respected Pioneer Elite dealer who had it shipped in S. CA directly to me via truck freight from the Pioneer warehouse in Chino, CA, and I would have had it no other way. It came vertical, strapped to its pallet and in absolutely perfect condition. Considering the 151's not cheap price, I would be so paranoid in any other way to have it shipped, it would not be acceptable to me. I wanted it perfect in every way and it definitely is. Best plasma (other than the 141 in 60") I could have ever imagined viewing daily and I have loved every single second I watch it for the last 7 months I have had it.

I am aware it is up to the indivdual of course and their one sensibilities, but nothing is a substitute for following the mfrs posted warnings about shipment in a vertical position only. Not worth losing such a precious commodity as this plasma is.
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post #21440 of 30503 Old 12-08-2009, 04:44 PM
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The Magnolia where I bought my 111 told me that they would void the warranty if I layed it down, when I took it home. I had them drop it off at my place after transporting it upright, strapped lightly in the back of a pickup. Cost me $50; but it arrived in pristine condition, which was obvioulsy important.
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post #21441 of 30503 Old 12-09-2009, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Isn't the 5010 the 8G model? Do you mean that one or the 5020FD?

yes I am talking about the 8g 5010.
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post #21442 of 30503 Old 12-09-2009, 07:25 AM
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I think it would be worth it especially for the price of the 5010 that i found through amazon.com. It say its new, and the place got great reviews so i wouldnt doubt its a new one that just wasnt bought. But anyway I figured even the 8g models are still better in every way than a 12g panny which hasnt even hit 8g black levels so that only tells you how good their products are, or how far behind they are.
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post #21443 of 30503 Old 12-09-2009, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhassle View Post

The Magnolia where I bought my 111 told me that they would void the warranty if I layed it down, when I took it home. I had them drop it off at my place after transporting it upright, strapped lightly in the back of a pickup. Cost me $50; but it arrived in pristine condition, which was obvioulsy important.

Same thing with my shop. They warned me to keep my 151 upright if I picked it up. It was well worth it to pay them the $50 to deliver it to my house (the shop is about 30 miles from my house). They delivered it in a regular work van, upright of course, and it was in pristine condition.

Considering the cost of purchasing the 151 I wasn't going to take the risk of damage to save a few bucks. At least this way if it arrived damaged it was on the shop's dime, not mine.

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post #21444 of 30503 Old 12-09-2009, 04:07 PM
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Has anybody else gone from projection to flat panel plasma? Did you not only have a big screen, but a constant height 2.35:1 screen and anamorphic lens? Did you adjust to the smaller size and appreciate the pic quality and enjoy the display as much or better than your previous projector? What size plasma?

Has anybody stuck a kill-a-watt meter or similar on this plasma to see what power (watts) it draws watching various content?
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post #21445 of 30503 Old 12-09-2009, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STILESP113 View Post

I think it would be worth it especially for the price of the 5010 that i found through amazon.com.

That price on amazon for a 5010 is not at all that great. Look at samsclub in their online auction area. There are two 5010's there right now with bids on them, and the bid amounts on them so far are for a lot less than the ones on amazon.
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post #21446 of 30503 Old 12-09-2009, 10:18 PM
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I need some help. I have the opportunity to buy at my local best buy a pro151fd (display model) for 4000 + tax or a New 141FD for 4000 + tax.First of able which one is a better tv and second of all the 141FD is a monitor so I would have to buy the stand, receiver, speakers etc.
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post #21447 of 30503 Old 12-09-2009, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alejopelaez View Post

I need some help. I have the opportunity to buy at my local best buy a pro151fd (display model) for 4000 + tax or a New 141FD for 4000 + tax.First of able which one is a better tv and second of all the 141FD is a monitor so I would have to buy the stand, receiver, speakers etc.

No need to re-post across the Kuro threads.....most of us read them all. Well, if you'd have to buy a whole audio system with the 141, the same pricing on the two panels is not relevant. (If cost were a factor, you probably wouldn't be asking the question, right?)

You'll get great performance out of either one, so I'd suggest you just go with the one that has the feature set that suits your needs. If you weren't already planning on building a whole new home theater right now, it's a considerable undertaking. If you want to just buy a new TV and be up & running and watching stuff ASAP, the 151 might be the better bet. That $4000 for a display model is not a good deal though......I'd make them come down on it. (New ones were going at $3995 recently.)
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post #21448 of 30503 Old 12-10-2009, 12:25 AM
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I used to work for magnolia home theatre and i have layed several pioneer plasma on their sides. standard pio and elites. I have never had any issues or problems with them. The reason i belive that panny had issues was becuase they use a 2-3 layers of glass. Pioneer only use a single pain of glass. thats iirc. Of course its never recommended but sometimes you gotta work with what you got... Just my .02
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post #21449 of 30503 Old 12-10-2009, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alejopelaez View Post

I need some help. I have the opportunity to buy at my local best buy a pro151fd (display model) for 4000 + tax or a New 141FD for 4000 + tax.First of able which one is a better tv and second of all the 141FD is a monitor so I would have to buy the stand, receiver, speakers etc.

pioneer 141 is a monitor. get the NEW pioneer 141fd. that is a great price. you will need a stand or wall mount , speakers and tuner. the pioneer 151 tv will probably have better resale value.
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post #21450 of 30503 Old 12-10-2009, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alejopelaez View Post

I need some help. I have the opportunity to buy at my local best buy a pro151fd (display model) for 4000 + tax or a New 141FD for 4000 + tax.First of able which one is a better tv and second of all the 141FD is a monitor so I would have to buy the stand, receiver, speakers etc.

I got a new one for that display model price...The display model at my local store was marked at $3600...For $400 extra is was a no-brainer, get the new one
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