The Official Pioneer 9G Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 783 - AVS Forum
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post #23461 of 30532 Old 06-25-2010, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James W. Johnson View Post

Way over my head , what are you guys talking about progprog?

I'll give a real-world (although probably uncommon) example. I have a DirecTV HR-23 HD DVR. I have a B&K AVR. I have a Kuro monitor (KRP). Over the last little while DirecTV has rolled out 1080p24 movies. Initially they required the TV/AVR to support 1080p24 but when they went into production they had the DVR perform 2:3 pulldown to convert 1080p24 to 1080i60 if the display didn't do 24p. A few firmware releases in the past my AVR tickled a bug in the HD-23 that prevented 24p. In that case one should be able to use the inverse telecine in the Kuro to perfectly restore the 24p movie. Of course this doesn't apply to the statement "I don't like what my player does to movies on DVD when it tries to extract the original 24p source(s)" but it's not completely unreasonable to apply it to "I don't like inverse telecine".

Obviously I misunderstood.
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post #23462 of 30532 Old 06-26-2010, 02:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

It depends on what you mean by limiting. Those three components all offer serial or serial+IP control. They have dozens (or in the case of the 141 hundreds) of commands. I prefer to press one button (say to switch to ISF-Day on HDMI 6 with YCC4:4:4) and get essentially perfect operation. This is particularly critical in any but the simplest of macros. Naturally there are other useful functions (e.g. selecting an alternate video pattern or entering the Factory Menu) that either can't be done or can only be done by learning from a specialized remote.

I programmed a Harmony One for my in-laws to control five devices with six functional units. That was about two devices too many.

Sometimes I think the problem is that people move from specific device remotes to a Harmony and are sufficiently impressed that they imagine there can be no improvement. Stepping up from a Harmony to a "real" remote is an even greater change in power and convenience.

Useful "buttons" in the Kuro section of my remote:
ISF-Day
ISF-Night
Pure
Factory mode
RGB-video
RGB-pc
AUTO
Panel Mute

bodosom,

These specific buttons do not currently exist, correct? I am also hoping to get these specific buttons as it would help with the programming in the One.
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post #23463 of 30532 Old 06-26-2010, 02:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venkatesh_m View Post

bodosom,

These specific buttons do not currently exist, correct? I am also hoping to get these specific buttons as it would help with the programming in the One.

I believe bodosom is talking about buttons he's programmed on his remote with discrete commands from his Kuro's serial protocol. This is one of the big advantages of using serial control.....many more discrete commands, which in turn allow for much more complex & precise macros. Many of these commands are simply not available when using a remote that is limited to IR control, like the Harmony One.
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post #23464 of 30532 Old 06-26-2010, 08:02 AM
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progprog, what brand and model remote are you using, id not mind looking it over. thanks
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post #23465 of 30532 Old 06-26-2010, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

I believe bodosom is talking about buttons he's programmed on his remote with discrete commands from his Kuro's serial protocol. This is one of the big advantages of using serial control.....many more discrete commands, which in turn allow for much more complex & precise macros. Many of these commands are simply not available when using a remote that is limited to IR control, like the Harmony One.

But if the command puts out IR they may be added. I have done similar adds with my Harmony 880. The color LCD has pages I can turn too when I want those, and they are out of the purview of the wife and daughter who also use the remote.

As a for instance, my Sony BD player has no eject button, but I added buttons for another Sony BD player that does, so mine now has an eject button.

All we need to know is what the Pioneer service remote is called and hope it in the Logitech command cue. Then we add it into the TV command set. It is easy.

My favorite toy
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post #23466 of 30532 Old 06-26-2010, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by jmmesch View Post

But if the command puts out IR they may be added. I have done similar adds with my Harmony 880. The color LCD has pages I can turn too when I want those, and they are out of the purview of the wife and daughter who also use the remote.

As a for instance, my Sony BD player has no eject button, but I added buttons for another Sony BD player that does, so mine now has an eject button.

All we need to know is what the Pioneer service remote is called and hope it in the Logitech command cue. Then we add it into the TV command set. It is easy.

No, it's not easy...in fact it's impossible....when the IR commands simply don't exist. That was my point: with most components (including all the ones I use), the serial command set is much more extensive than the IR command set. (These extra discrete commands are not in the service remote either; they just don't exist as IR commands.)

@James: I use Nevo remotes.
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post #23467 of 30532 Old 06-26-2010, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James W. Johnson View Post

progprog, what brand and model remote are you using, id not mind looking it over. thanks

James. This might interest you (Harmony One vs Nevo Q50):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1097202
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post #23468 of 30532 Old 06-26-2010, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post


@James: I use Nevo remotes.

progprog. Which Nevo model do you have? How much did it cost? Can it be programmed with a Mac?

Thanks
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post #23469 of 30532 Old 06-26-2010, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Fosse View Post

James. This might interest you (Harmony One vs Nevo Q50):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1097202

Interesting. Post #2......>>>
Quote:


As long as you never tried a properly programmed quality remote, you should be fine. The bulk of people will be completely satisfied by what Harmony has to offer, but it's one of those "can't miss what you've never had" types of situations.

If you listed what you actually wanted in a remote, I could offer you some more options to compare the Harmony to. But as it is, the Q50 will walk all over what the Harmony is capable of, and do far more. Will you regret buying the One...?...some have, some don't. Keep in mind the Harmony support policy has recently changed as well.

You may be able to find a dealer which will offer you the Nevo SW as well.

Based on what i've read so far , I get the feeling that the Harmony One is a toy compared to the stuff from Nevo.
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but it's one of those "can't miss what you've never had" types of situations

Id sure like to know what it is that I could be missing! <<(perhaps you could help here progprog?)
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post #23470 of 30532 Old 06-26-2010, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Fosse View Post

progprog. Which Nevo model do you have? How much did it cost? Can it be programmed with a Mac?

Thanks

I use the Q50 in both my setups (I prefer hard transport buttons...PLAY, PAUSE, etc....over the more exclusively touchscreen approach of the S70). The Q50 retails at ~$699, I think, though I paid less. The "system," if you want to use it as more than just an IR remote, also requires the NC-50 extender, which lists at ~$299 (I think), and an RS-232 module for each component where you'll use serial control, at $50 each. (Other module types, like voltage sensors, are available, but not usually needed.) Often, the remote and extender can be picked up as a package set for between $500-600 through unauthorized channels. (This is a big caveat with Nevo: they have a tightly controlled dealer/custom installer network and they absolutely won't provide warranty service if you go outside those channels. Installers generally charge full retail, and then some. )

It's not a perfect system (none of them are), and it's expensive when all's said and done, but it's very powerful, flexible, and user-friendly. I couldn't go back to IR control and all its limitations at this point.

I believe the Nevo programming software requires one of those virtual PC programs to run on a Mac. (There was recently a big software update, and I don't know if that finally included direct Mac support.) I know there are people who program Nevos on their Macs, but I can't say whether there are any specific issues or limitations when doing it that way.
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post #23471 of 30532 Old 06-26-2010, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevec325 View Post

Once you get a Harmony (especially the One)... you can never go back

Unless you have some extensive control needs, you can do almost everything with the One.

Quote:
Originally Posted by James W. Johnson View Post

Interesting. Post #2......>>>



but it's one of those "can't miss what you've never had" types of situations

Id sure like to know what it is that I could be missing!

Well, the grass in always greener on the other side Right? But perhaps someday we should find our what a "Real Remote" is like?

In our setup here we have found that the Harmony One fills all of our needs and does everything that we want it to do with our 151 Kuro, Oppo 83, TiVo Series 3 HD, Denon 4308. I'm in the same camp as Steve 325 and with similar gear, but I do understand where the others are coming from though. Personally I just can't see the extra investment needed for the use of those other features, especially with our Kuro, that are beyond what the Harmony can do. None of the other family members would use them either. The best part of the Harmony is that everyone here can use it for everything unlike the other remotes that we've had in the past.
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post #23472 of 30532 Old 06-26-2010, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Fosse View Post

But perhaps someday we should find our what a "Real Remote" is like?

Hey, I would never be so dismissive. Harmonys are real remotes and a lot of people love them. They are leaps and bounds ahead of manufacturers' remotes in terms of convenience and programmability. But just like many folks are perfectly happy with a good receiver while others spend thousands on exotic separates, there's a remote market for all needs and interests. I wouldn't bash anyone's choices. (Well....unless they've got eight manufacturers' remotes laying on their coffee table.....that's pretty inexcusable! )

Like I mentioned before, I've programmed several Harmony remotes for friends and relatives, and they are very happy with them.
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post #23473 of 30532 Old 06-26-2010, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

I use the Q50 in both my setups (I prefer hard transport buttons...PLAY, PAUSE, etc....over the more exclusively touchscreen approach of the S70). The Q50 retails at ~$699, I think, though I paid less. The "system," if you want to use it as more than just an IR remote, also requires the NC-50 extender, which lists at ~$299 (I think), and an RS-232 module for each component where you'll use serial control, at $50 each. (Other module types, like voltage sensors, are available, but not usually needed.) Often, the remote and extender can be picked up as a package set for between $500-600 through unauthorized channels. (This is a big caveat with Nevo: they have a tightly controlled dealer/custom installer network and they absolutely won't provide warranty service if you go outside those channels. Installers generally charge full retail, and then some. )

It's not a perfect system (none of them are), and it's expensive when all's said and done, but it's very powerful, flexible, and user-friendly. I couldn't go back to IR control and all its limitations at this point.

I believe the Nevo programming software requires one of those virtual PC programs to run on a Mac. (There was recently a big software update, and I don't know if that finally included direct Mac support.) I know there are people who program Nevos on their Macs, but I can't say whether there are any specific issues or limitations when doing it that way.

Thanks for the helpful info regarding the Nevo's. I do see that the price of admission is quite higher than that of the Harmony One though. I guess the real deal kicker would be the issue of non-Mac compatibility as we are Mac people and my wife does not want any "virtual PC programs" run our our Macs. Thats ok with me since she did allow me to buy a Kuro Elite after convincing her that we absolutely needed one
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post #23474 of 30532 Old 06-26-2010, 12:34 PM
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Sounds like you came out on the better end of that negotiation!
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post #23475 of 30532 Old 06-26-2010, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Hey, I would never be so dismissive. Harmonys are real remotes and a lot of people love them. They are leaps and bounds ahead of manufacturers' remotes in terms of convenience and programmability. But just like many folks are perfectly happy with a good receiver while others spend thousands on exotic separates, there's a remote market for all needs and interests. I wouldn't bash anyone's choices. (Well....unless they've got eight manufacturers' remotes laying on their coffee table.....that's pretty inexcusable! )

Like I mentioned before, I've programmed several Harmony remotes for friends and relatives, and they are very happy with them.

Good points!

I am one of those who have shelled out thousands for exotic gear for my 2 channel audio system so I have to compromise a little when it comes to our A/V setup.
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post #23476 of 30532 Old 06-26-2010, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Sounds like you came out on the better end of that negotiation!

Yes, I did come out the winner on that one but it took quite a bit of work on my part for about 6 months. If not for the help of our ISF consultant, Jeff Meier (UMR), I don't think that I could have swung it!
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post #23477 of 30532 Old 06-26-2010, 01:46 PM
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For my needs my Harmony One rocks !!! What a great Universal remote.
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post #23478 of 30532 Old 06-26-2010, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venkatesh_m View Post

bodosom,

These specific buttons do not currently exist, correct? I am also hoping to get these specific buttons as it would help with the programming in the One.

As far as I know none of those commands exist as discrete IR codes (but they might). They're all handled by my IR to serial/IP gateway.
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post #23479 of 30532 Old 06-26-2010, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Fosse View Post

Personally I just can't see the extra investment needed for the use of those other features, especially with our Kuro, that are beyond what the Harmony can do. None of the other family members would use them either. The best part of the Harmony is that everyone here can use it for everything unlike the other remotes that we've had in the past.

I'm not sure if you're suggesting that high-end remotes are hard to use or what but of they're not.

An example:
Much to my dismay the Pioneer SELECT code is interpreted by my AVR as the universal (zone 0) power off command. I have three choices:
1) Set up sufficient discrete commands that I don't have to use select.
2) Disable the AVR IR optical input and use the rear IR input jack.
3) Send another (harmless) IR code when you press SELECT on the Kuro device page and use the IR/IP gateway to map that code to Kuro SELECT.

I do option three.

I'm currently using the URC MX-900 (Genesis). I've attached a photo of the top. The only soft button my wife uses is LIST. She also knows that if you press ON or OFF the light goes on or off, that if you press and hold OFF every component is turned off and press and hold of ON turns on the lights in three (conveniently located) rooms. Beyond that she reads what it says on the buttons.
LL
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post #23480 of 30532 Old 06-26-2010, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

I'm not sure if you're suggesting that high-end remotes are hard to use or what but of they're not.

An example:
Much to my dismay the Pioneer SELECT code is interpreted by my AVR as the universal (zone 0) power off command. I have three choices:
1) Set up sufficient discrete commands that I don't have to use select.
2) Disable the AVR IR optical input and use the rear IR input jack.
3) Send another (harmless) IR code when you press SELECT on the Kuro device page and use the IR/IP gateway to map that code to Kuro SELECT.

I do option three.

I'm currently using the URC MX-900 (Genesis). I've attached a photo of the top. The only soft button my wife uses is LIST. She also knows that if you press ON or OFF the light goes on or off, that if you press and hold OFF every component is turned off and press and hold of ON turns on the lights in three (conveniently located) rooms. Beyond that she reads what it says on the buttons.

No, I didn't mean to suggest that Hi-End remotes are difficult to use as I haven't had any experience with any of them---only a couple of the Sony Integrated Remote commanders---those big squarish ones.

I've only had one issue with my Harmony One and the 151 Kuro in the 2 years that I've owned it after Logitech did a software upgrade. That resulted in disabling the Harmony's control of our 151 Kuro "power off/on" functions after I decided to make a few programming changes on my remote the next day after they made their changes when using their new software version on our computer. After much frustration in trying to resolve the problem myself, I ended up having to call Harmony support. They discovered the problem was on their end with their new software and quickly rectified it while I was still on the phone with them.

Regarding the 151 picture off/picture on (panel off/on) functions, I learned the that the hex code for that function only applies to the 141 but not the 151. See this link:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...x#post16059806

I checked out a review of your URC MX-900 on remotecentral.com and see that costs a bit more than the Harmony but it appears to be a very nice remote and fairly easy to use too. Good to hear that your wife seems to like it too. Thats most important as you know.
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post #23481 of 30532 Old 06-26-2010, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Fosse View Post

I guess the real deal kicker would be the issue of non-Mac compatibility as we are Mac people and my wife does not want any "virtual PC programs" run our our Macs. Thats ok with me since she did allow me to buy a Kuro Elite after convincing her that we absolutely needed one

Its nice to run into fellow Mac users Bob. I also would never allow any virtual microsoft junk on my Mac, NEVER. I bought a cheap Windows laptop if I absolutely have to use Windows........but I go thru as much trouble as necessary to try and avoid using Windows, for the most part that laptop is a dust collector.....its actually quite good at collecting dust.

Yeah Bob, I cannot really think of any more features that might come in handy in a remote control, as far as I can tell so far the One does everything I need and want.

I suppose the Harmony 900 would be nicer but I already have a URC RF20 , the only use I have for a RF remote is volume control and my RF20 does that just fine. And the 900 is more than 2x what I paid for my One. .....so I am good to go.
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post #23482 of 30532 Old 06-26-2010, 06:17 PM
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Just for fun I figured id take a few before and after pics....my spinning remote carousel did tidy things up pretty well but the One still made a big difference.


(edit: I need to a little dusting!)
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post #23483 of 30532 Old 06-26-2010, 06:23 PM
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My 151 felt left out, I may as well toss this in since this is the 151s thread.


My blu-ray collection felt left out too. ( i'm up to about 300 BDs so far, about $4500 bucks. )
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post #23484 of 30532 Old 06-26-2010, 10:58 PM
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I got lucky and scored an open box 111fd, but it was missing the remote so ordered a harmony 650.
Do I need the pioneer remote for anything or should the harmony be ok?

Thanks,
Chunkydark
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post #23485 of 30532 Old 06-26-2010, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ChunkyDark View Post

I got lucky and scored an open box 111fd, but it was missing the remote so ordered a harmony 650.
Do I need the pioneer remote for anything or should the harmony be ok?

Thanks,
Chunkydark

You'll be fine....an aftermarket remote can be programmed to do everything the Pioneer remote does.
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post #23486 of 30532 Old 06-27-2010, 02:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James W. Johnson View Post

My 151 felt left out, I may as well toss this in since this is the 151s thread.


My blu-ray collection felt left out too. ( i'm up to about 300 BDs so far, about $4500 bucks. )

Is that rack store-bought? How many does it hold?
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post #23487 of 30532 Old 06-27-2010, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by James W. Johnson View Post

My blu-ray collection felt left out too. ( i'm up to about 300 BDs so far, about $4500 bucks. )

Just wait until you have to convert them all to 3D!

Sweet system, BTW James -- thanks for the pix.
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post #23488 of 30532 Old 06-27-2010, 05:25 AM
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hello
just found a pioneer elite pro-1410 monitor is mint and well taken care off
they want $1000..
can anyone tell me about this unit...
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post #23489 of 30532 Old 06-27-2010, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

You'll be fine....an aftermarket remote can be programmed to do everything the Pioneer remote does.

Thanks!

I'm going a little nuts right now. I've had the TV for 4 days and still haven't turned it on Just moved into new place so there isn't a table to support it. Then the wall mount I bought from monoprice only gives 1.5" back clearance instead of the 3".
I thought about just bolting some 2x4 to the wall then putting the mount over that. Then again I kinda hate to hillbilly-ize my sweet new TV.
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post #23490 of 30532 Old 06-27-2010, 08:16 AM
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Location: San Francisco Bay Area (Marin County)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James W. Johnson View Post

My 151 felt left out, I may as well toss this in since this is the 151s thread.

My blu-ray collection felt left out too. ( i'm up to about 300 BDs so far, about $4500 bucks.

James.

Those are great pictures of your Kuro, your system, and your new ONE but none of your Mac?
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