The Official PANASONIC PZ850u thread - All sizes (settings, feedback, etc...) - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 1862 Old 12-21-2008, 10:48 AM
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SWMBO (She Who Must Be Obeyed) and I have decided to upgrade from our 27" Sony CRT to HDTV. We've verified we're "plasma people" and have decided on a 50" inch screen. Those points are no longer open for discussion.
We thought we had narrowed our choice down to the Panasonic TH-50PZ850U. Yesterday we went to Atlanta trying to find one to view. No luck but did find an 80 and 85 at a Fry's Electronics store. Both looked nice but not stunning. The store folk had made an effort to display the sets in an area with reduced lighting, better than the average big box operation. We viewed the sets in both HD and SD, signal sources unknown. Both were "nice" but not spectacular.

We left there and went to a nearby video specialty store that turned out to carry only the Pioneers - no Panasonics. We viewed the Elite 111 in HD and SD and were both shocked at the picture quality improvement over the Panasonics. The Pioneer was displayed in a low light living room environment. Signal sources unknown. This has left us, to say the least, uncertain we are on the right track with the Panasonic PZ850U. We leave tomorrow morning for an out-of-state visit to the grandkids for Christmas. On the road we're going to have a "come to Jesus" meeting about which TV to buy.

In our decision-making process some things are "givens" and not subject to discussion: we will not pay the price of the Pioneer Elite 111 HD - it's not an option, period; we would pay the price of the Pioneer Kuro PDP-5020FD only if it has a markedly better picture than the Panasonic TH-50PZ850U when viewing DirecTVHD, DirecTV SD and DVDs when viewed in a low-light (never no-light nor bright light) livingroom environment. Either TV has all the controls, connections, feature bells and whistles I would ever use (we're in our 50's and watch mostly movies, documentaries, news and football games; we like a nice picture but we're not videophile hobbiests). We're highly unlikely to spend the money for professional calibration for any of the sets so assume calibration will never happen.

In preparing for that meeting I very much need useful answers to the following questions, with the above listed "givens" firmly in mind:

1. In a livingroom low-light environment how does the picture quality of the PZ850U compare to the 80 and 85 models (black levels, color richness, color accuracy) using only the signal sources I've listed?
2. In a livingroom low-light environment how does the picture quality of the Pioneer Kuro PDP-5020FD compare to the picture of the Elite 111 when using only the signal sources I've listed?
3. In a livingroom low-light environment how does the picture quality of the Panasonic TH-50PZ850U compare to the picture of the Pioneer Kuro PDP-5020FD when using only the signal sources I've listed?
4. Can anyone suggest where, in Northeast Georgia, I could actually view the PZ850U and the 5020FD in operation? I've burned up a lot of cell phone minutes and gasoline trying to find these around here with no luck.

Please confine your comments to the models I've listed, the signal sources I've listed and the viewing environment I've listed, since I'm going to be traveling and trying to read the thread on my PDA. Please bear in mind that we are just folk who will be using this TV for a long time and just want a top notch picture. I won't be studying test patterns on the darn thing! and I have no present plans to ever buy a BlueRay player.

Thanks in advance for your time and thoughts.

Regards,
SmokinLawyer
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post #452 of 1862 Old 12-21-2008, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by robbyrockets View Post

Well folks here is the final calibration, top to bottom, and all the graphs and charts that go along with it.

Everything looks great!

Are these settings transferable to a 50" screen or are they only for a 58" screen?

The reason I ask is because I read someplace that the 50" 800U needs different settings then the 58" 800U and I wonder if that is true for the 850U model also.

Jim
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post #453 of 1862 Old 12-21-2008, 07:04 PM
 
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Has anyone put in the Blu Ray "The Wild" If not do it! It looks amazing on the 850U. I got goosebumps! I use to think that animation looks better on LCD until I saw this movie. Movie isn't that good, but PQ ROCKS!
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post #454 of 1862 Old 12-22-2008, 06:53 AM
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Do changes made in the Pro Setting only affect the Custom Mode? ie. if I increase panel brightness in Pro under custom does it also increase in Studio Ref as well? Or are all the Pro setting locked for everything but custom?
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post #455 of 1862 Old 12-22-2008, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinLawyer View Post

1. In a livingroom low-light environment how does the picture quality of the PZ850U compare to the 80 and 85 models (black levels, color richness, color accuracy) using only the signal sources I've listed?

Same...since you are not interesting calibration.

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2. In a livingroom low-light environment how does the picture quality of the Pioneer Kuro PDP-5020FD compare to the picture of the Elite 111 when using only the signal sources I've listed?

Again, with no calibration on either panel, they would look very similar.

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3. In a livingroom low-light environment how does the picture quality of the Panasonic TH-50PZ850U compare to the picture of the Pioneer Kuro PDP-5020FD when using only the signal sources I've listed?

Similar, but the Pioneer will have richer colors due to it's much deeper black levels.

Why not just stay on course with your 850u purchase


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post #456 of 1862 Old 12-22-2008, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Why not just stay on course with your 850u purchase

I'd second that, and if you read through this thread, where seldom is heard a discouraging word, you'd see why. As far as the in-store auditioning experience you had, I've found that the amount of variation in how a TV picture looks in-store is quite substantial, owing to such factors as the source, of course, to the connections used and way the TV's are wired, to the settings that have been applied, or not applied. Even the toughest critics assert that the Pioneer offers only marginally better PQ, but at a price premium that's way out of proportion to any discernible differences between the two models. Go with the '850 and play around with the picture settings until you find what you like.
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post #457 of 1862 Old 12-22-2008, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinLawyer View Post

On the road we're going to have a "come to Jesus" meeting about which TV to buy.

...we would pay the price of the Pioneer Kuro PDP-5020FD only if it has a markedly better picture than the Panasonic TH-50PZ850U when viewing DirecTVHD, DirecTV SD and DVDs when viewed in a low-light (never no-light nor bright light) livingroom environment.

Either TV has all the controls, connections, feature bells and whistles I would ever use (we're in our 50's and watch mostly movies, documentaries, news and football games; we like a nice picture but we're not videophile hobbiests). We're highly unlikely to spend the money for professional calibration for any of the sets so assume calibration will never happen.

Get the 50PZ850U. It's less money than the Pioneer, and it's Panny's latest high-end consumer plasma. The 5020 is a much older model.

Also, IMO, the "blacker blacks" of the Pioneers seem to also come with an overall darker picture. I read somewhere that their glass is tinted to enhance this effect, and I disagree that the colors are any "richer" than the 850. In fact, the D.C.C. setting offered by the 850's makes colors pop quite pleasingly due to the wider color gamut range you'll find exclusively with the 850's.

I've seen the 6020 (next gen from the one you're considering) in optimum showroom lighting, and while the PQ was very good, I personally found the "inky" blacks of that model to coincide with a much darker overall picture than I would enjoy watching. For my money, the 850 has proven to achieve black levels nearly as dark as the Pioneers, but without sacrificing contrast, and the DCC wider color gamut truly enriches the colors just enough, rather than give the illusion of richer colors through blacker blacks.

Frankly, there's a case to be made about blacks being too black. As an independent filmmaker, I would not wish the blacks on my films to be completely without contrast. For examply, a black tuxedo coat should not be so black that one cannot see the pocket or lapels of the coat. If my eye can make out subtle contrast on such things, then so should a monitor be able to display it. Black-colored objects in film should not be complete black holes that allow no light whatsoever to bounce off of it.

However, this is exactly what some "experts" seem to believe constitutes ideal black levels. I suppose, in the end, it comes down to personal taste. For me, that means the blackest possible blacks that can still display subtle highlights such as those described above, and without darkening the rest of the picture as if I had donned a pair of dark gray shades.

All that said, it sounds like you want something that delivers superior PQ right out of the box without ever having to calibrate.

Well, I'm still loving my 850's PQ on Studio Ref preset that's yet to be calibrated, and don't know that I'll ever need to. It's really just that good.

~ Crag
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post #458 of 1862 Old 12-22-2008, 04:22 PM
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Have they added any more content or options to VIERA Cast than you tube or the picture gallery and weather and stock ticker? How do you type in info on the screen?
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post #459 of 1862 Old 12-22-2008, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CragAntler View Post

Get the 50PZ850U. It's less money than the Pioneer, and it's Panny's latest high-end consumer plasma. The 5020 is a much older model.

Also, IMO, the "blacker blacks" of the Pioneers seem to also come with an overall darker picture. I read somewhere that their glass is tinted to enhance this effect, and I disagree that the colors are any "richer" than the 850. In fact, the D.C.C. setting offered by the 850's makes colors pop quite pleasingly due to the wider color gamut range you'll find exclusively with the 850's.

I've seen the 6020 (next gen from the one you're considering) in optimum showroom lighting, and while the PQ was very good, I personally found the "inky" blacks of that model to coincide with a much darker overall picture than I would enjoy watching. For my money, the 850 has proven to achieve black levels nearly as dark as the Pioneers, but without sacrificing contrast, and the DCC wider color gamut truly enriches the colors just enough, rather than give the illusion of richer colors through blacker blacks.

Frankly, there's a case to be made about blacks being too black. As an independent filmmaker, I would not wish the blacks on my films to be completely without contrast. For examply, a black tuxedo coat should not be so black that one cannot see the pocket or lapels of the coat. If my eye can make out subtle contrast on such things, then so should a monitor be able to display it. Black-colored objects in film should not be complete black holes that allow no light whatsoever to bounce off of it.

However, this is exactly what some "experts" seem to believe constitutes ideal black levels. I suppose, in the end, it comes down to personal taste. For me, that means the blackest possible blacks that can still display subtle highlights such as those described above, and without darkening the rest of the picture as if I had donned a pair of dark gray shades.

All that said, it sounds like you want something that delivers superior PQ right out of the box without ever having to calibrate.

Well, I'm still loving my 850's PQ on Studio Ref preset that's yet to be calibrated, and don't know that I'll ever need to. It's really just that good.

~ Crag

The 5020 is the same generation as the 6020.

I don't think there are any experts that would think "crushing" the backs constitute an ideal black level.
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post #460 of 1862 Old 12-22-2008, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CragAntler View Post

Get the 50PZ850U. It's less money than the Pioneer, and it's Panny's latest high-end consumer plasma. The 5020 is a much older model.

Craig, The 5020 was release in July of this year. Exactly how can you refer to that as a "much older model"?

Quote:


Also, IMO, the "blacker blacks" of the Pioneers seem to also come with an overall darker picture.

The darker areas are darker on the Pioneer because... well they are truly blacker. There are no tricks involved in Pioneer's minimum luminance levels.

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I read somewhere that their glass is tinted to enhance this effect,

Pioneer 9G AR coating and color filter is specifically designed to keep the blacks black in ambient lighting conditions. It is similar to what Samsung uses on their glossy LCDs...minus the glare and reflections.

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and I disagree that the colors are any "richer" than the 850. In fact, the D.C.C. setting offered by the 850's makes colors pop quite pleasingly due to the wider color gamut range you'll find exclusively with the 850's.

Feel free to disagree, however, what factual data can you bring to the table? Have you ever seen both side by side in a "home lighting" enviornment...fully calibrated?

For the record, the the 5020's color points come closer to the Digital Cinema's CIE color plots compared to the 850u.

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For my money, the 850 has proven to achieve black levels nearly as dark as the Pioneers,

Hmmm. The 6020 has a measured black level of 0.0008fL. The 850 has a measured black level of 0.008fL. That's 10 times darker.

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but without sacrificing contrast,

Have you actually measured a 850u? What about a 6020? I would love to hear your explanation of "sacrificing contrast". The 6020 is superior to the 850u in intra-scene and inter-scene contrast ratios....wouldn't even be a contest.

Quote:


and the DCC wider color gamut truly enriches the colors just enough, rather than give the illusion of richer colors through blacker blacks.

Again, the 5020 and 6020 are closer to the Digital Cinema CIE color points than the 850u.

Quote:


Frankly, there's a case to be made about blacks being too black. As an independent filmmaker, I would not wish the blacks on my films to be completely without contrast.

What exactly is your definition of contrast? I'm not sure you are using the correct word here.

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For examply, a black tuxedo coat should not be so black that one cannot see the pocket or lapels of the coat.

Gamma problem which a 6020 would not have. For the record, the 6020 has a ruler flat gamma from 10-90% stimuli. It is impossible to achieve the same on any 11G Panasonic.

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If my eye can make out subtle contrast on such things, then so should a monitor be able to display it. Black-colored objects in film should not be complete black holes that allow no light whatsoever to bounce off of it.

Gamma issue aka black crush....neither the 6020 nor 850u suffers from black crush.

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However, this is exactly what some "experts" seem to believe constitutes ideal black levels.

I think the problem here is you and your understanding of black levels, gamma, color luminance, color saturation, intra-scene contrast, inter-scene contrast. The "experts" all seem to understand these terms and where/how they apply to PQ...including "ideal black levels"

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I suppose, in the end, it comes down to personal taste.

I agree.

Quote:


For me, that means the blackest possible blacks that can still display subtle highlights such as those described above, and without darkening the rest of the picture as if I had donned a pair of dark gray shades.

You of all people should know that you are not suppose to see everything in the darkest areas of the picture when a display is properly setup. Now you can always get more shadow detail by having a display with it's brightness level improperly setup or a gamma that starts at 1.9 at 10% stimuli and drops to 2.18 around the 20-20% stimuli level. This happens on all 11G Panasonics and by no means is correct.

Quote:


All that said, it sounds like you want something that delivers superior PQ right out of the box without ever having to calibrate.

There isn't a display on the market today that can do that.


Quote:


Well, I'm still loving my 850's PQ on Studio Ref preset that's yet to be calibrated, and don't know that I'll ever need to. It's really just that good.

~ Crag

Get it calibrated and I bet you $100 you would retract this statement


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post #461 of 1862 Old 12-22-2008, 08:38 PM
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^^^nice deconstructive analysis.

a lot of people post like they know what they're talking about. some actually do.

"That's right Mr. Martini...there is an Easter Bunny".
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post #462 of 1862 Old 12-23-2008, 08:03 AM
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I think this thread is getting a bit off topic. It took me 6 months of me annoying people on here and doing my own research to realize it really is up to your own personal preference to get a sense of worth and satisfaction with your purchase.

I was on the fence for a very long time between a 58pz850 and 6020. I have a discount with Panny so the price difference a little over 1k. After talking to some owners of both here, researching on the Internet, and countless trips to stores for comparison - I was not still in agony over the decision. This was my first big flat screen purchase besides a sharp LCD I have had at my parents place. In the end, it came down to value for the money - for me. For some, 1k is worth the difference. It could have been worth the difference for me too, if I didn't just buy a condo and wanted nice furniture to go along with it!

After getting my unit, hooking it up, I felt like an idiot with all the time I wasted stressing about the the two units. It looks amazing at home and I have absolutely no regrets. Now, if there was a 6020 beside it, OK - I may feel a tad of remorse (maybe not). I do agree that it is a better panel with superior picture and processing, D-Nice posted factual data that proves it. BUT - again, for the value I payed and not having a Pioneer next to it for comparison, I am thrilled with my 850. Anyone who comes into my place always comments on the beauty of the picture.

D-nice, like you said - your an advocate of the best PQ at the present time - which is in Pioneer's ballpark right now. But, I wouldn't mind for you to take a keen interest in the 850 and see what you can do with it. You have done a great deal for the Elite/Non-Elite community and I have no doubt you could do the same for the this one. This is just wishful thinking haha.

So let's get back on topic with this thread - which is to get the best we can out of our Panny 850s! Robbyrockets has put some good time/effort into producing SM/user settings and I look forward to see how some of us pan out when using/tweaking these.

Just my two cents.
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post #463 of 1862 Old 12-23-2008, 08:32 AM
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[quote=lazi0ne;15364373]So let's get back on topic with this thread - which is to get the best we can out of our Panny 850s! Robbyrockets has put some good time/effort into producing SM/user settings and I look forward to see how some of us pan out when using/tweaking these.
QUOTE]

I'm loking forward to that as well. My 58" 850 will have 150 hrs of break in by tomorrow so will start tweaking over the holidays. I'm also getting a 111FD tonight so will be able to address those comparative questions on the thread over time as well ...
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post #464 of 1862 Old 12-23-2008, 01:43 PM
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This post is for Panasonic 850 series, settings, tweaks, and feedback, not brilliantly written Pioneer reviews. I'm sure there is a specific post for comparing these two fine plasmas. And concerning the 10 times black levels, the actual measerment its self is miniscule. I've always rooted for the underdog, I've yet had a friend or family member come to my home and not be blown away by the picture quality, people have made comments about the rich color and almost 3d effect as some call it while watching a movie on this set, and that's all that really matters.
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post #465 of 1862 Old 12-23-2008, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbyrockets View Post

This post is for Panasonic 850 series, settings, tweaks, and feedback, not brilliantly written Pioneer reviews.

Did I post anything that could even be classified as a review. A yes or no would suffice.

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I myself would consider using filters and tint a trick.

Every manufacturer uses filers and a AR coating for dealing with ambient light. Panasonic is not an exception. Anytime you want to discuss their AR coating let me know...including the reason why it's green in ambient lighting conditions

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Their black levels aren't achieved naturally through hardware or software.

Whose black levels aren't achieved through hardware and or software? Rest assured that Pioneer and Panasonic's minimum luminance levels are achieved through both hardware and software. AR and color filters are completely irrelevant when it comes to minimum luminance levels... aka black levels.

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And concerning the 10 times black levels, the actual measurement it self miniscule.

If you choose to believe that, so be it. My eyes can spot the differences quite easily.

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I've always rooted for the underdog, I've yet had a friend or family member come to my home and not be blown away by the picture quality, people have made comments about the rich color and almost 3d effect as some call it while watching a movie on this set, and that's all that really matters.

I'm happy for you. However, I'm not interested in down playing your 850u. I'm only providing factual and replicable information.


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post #466 of 1862 Old 12-23-2008, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lazi0ne View Post

D-nice, like you said - your an advocate of the best PQ at the present time - which is in Pioneer's ballpark right now. But, I wouldn't mind for you to take a keen interest in the 850 and see what you can do with it. You have done a great deal for the Elite/Non-Elite community and I have no doubt you could do the same for the this one. This is just wishful thinking haha.

If I had an 850u on hand, I would be more than happy to provide settings and assistance for 850u owners....just like I do for the Pioneer owners


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post #467 of 1862 Old 12-23-2008, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

If I had an 850u on hand, I would be more than happy to provide settings and assistance for 850u owners....just like I do for the Pioneer owners

I've recently spoke to D-Nice privately, and he said he would be happy to work on my 850 himself, even willing to drive a few hours to my home. I'm confident he can get the best out of my picture. Unfortunatly, I have to wait till much after the holidays. The moneies saved with the panny are going into a new sound system. Maybe he can turn it into a pioneer... a new Pionnic display! No, probably not, but I do love my 850 picture now, and cant even imagine it looking better!
Some questions for calibrators or anyone with calibrated sets-- These sets have temp settings and I always hear of them set to warm when calibrated. To my untrained eyes, this setting looks bad. I like everything in the normal temp setting. Can they be calibrated in normal temp setting? If it cant, and prefer factory settings, can you undo a calibration? I'm new to this and like I said, I already love the picture I'm getting now
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post #468 of 1862 Old 12-23-2008, 04:47 PM
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D-NICE did you bother looking at the charts and post calibration numbers on my 850?

Anyone here can freely compare my numbers and especially the CIE charts and graphs to the review you did on the 6020, and as the factual numbers show, the difference is minimal.

I agree that the Pioneer is the epitome of picture quality, the problem I have is that you make it out to be a far more dramatic difference between the two then it really is.

Again, I've posted numbers, charts, and graphs, please feel free to compare, and one last time, this is a Panasonic tweaks post, not a Pioneer vs Panasonic post, if you don't have any numbers to post concerning the 850 series Panasonic then at least try to stick to the subject, I hate when a post gets derailed by someone trying to convince the world that there opinion is the only opinion that matters.

I was under the assumption that these posts had a strict format of sticking to the subject, if I'm wrong then I'll refrain from posting from now on.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm not Joe Knowitall, especially when it comes to the Pioneer line, so feel free to teach me about Pioneers use of filters, I'd especially like to understand why some Panasonics have a green tinge to them when their off. As I stated earlier in this post, one never stops learning in this field,and I LOVE to learn new things.


D-NICE's 6020 review numbers and the 58PZ850's numbers I posted are VERY similar, on the other hand if one could get a 6020 for a few hundred dollars less then the 58PZ850, and you must have near perfection then go with the Pioneer. My price difference was far more dramatic, I obviously don't have the connections some do when it comes to pricing. I made a few nice additions to the theater room with the money I saved, and still see nothing less then a stunning picture.

In my case a $1200.00 difference is just to big in this economy.
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post #469 of 1862 Old 12-23-2008, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

If I had an 850u on hand, I would be more than happy to provide settings and assistance for 850u owners....just like I do for the Pioneer owners

With all due respect to your near-10K postings... (seriously, where do you even find time to watch TV??)... with every post, you come off more and more as a Pioneer senior sales rep.

Again, I ask, why are you lurking on this thread, which is about the Panasonic 850u series, when you yourself admit you don't even own one?

I might understand if you were posting here looking for opinions on the 850 from actual owners in order to help you decide to get one or not, but all I ever see from you is a laundry list of so-called "facts" regarding Pioneer specs versus Panasonic; and it seems quite important to you to be the fact-checking "sheriff" on everyone's posts throughout the entire forum.

Regarding my previous post, I apologize and stand corrected on my erroneous assumption that the 5020 was an older model. I think I got it confused with Samsung's numbering system where the A550 (my previous plasma) was the previous generation from the current 650 series. Sorry if this caused anyone to make an uninformed decision.

That said, your own post claims that the rival set to the 850 is the 6020, so therefore my opinion that the 850 is the better choice over the 5020 seems to ring true.

The rest of my OPINIONS, however, are just that. Opinions, and personal ones at that, based solely upon my own research both over the net, as well as showroom visits. I have seen the 6020 fully calibrated in a Magnolia low light showroom. The PQ was excellent, IMO, with very inky blacks, but the rest of the pic seemed darker than would suit MY PERSONAL PREFERENCE. It also cost -- at that store -- nearly 2K more than what they were asking for the 850u.

I had only seen the 800u in the 50" at Circuit City, where I wound up buying the Sammy 58A550 instead because A), it was one of the top contenders I was considering, and B) I wanted 58" or larger, and they couldn't say when the 58PZ800u was shipping.

The A550 had a beautiful picture, and nice, dark blacks. It also had issues with permanent image retention, and I wound up returning two of them. By that time, Best Buy had the 800u in stock, and Magnolia, the 850u. I never made it to Best Buy to look at the 800, as the rep at Magnolia gave me a better deal on the 850, which I never got to see in the store as they had only just rcvd them in their warehouse. I bought it sight-unseen, and have not regretted it since.

Regarding all the specs and stats you spew in your quest to prove how much better the Pioneer sets are... so what? I think most everyone here agrees that Pioneer is the overall quality leader in consumer plasma TV's. And my only major claim is that the 850 series is a better overall VALUE than the Pioneers are; i.e., more bang for one's buck.

I've also regularly expressed the opinion that, in the end, the only opinion that matters is one's PERSONAL TASTE in what they consider to be the "best" picture. As an actual OWNER of a TH58PZ850U, I choose to share my opinions and advice on this model TV -- here in the appropriate thread -- to other owners or other persons interested in my opinion about the set. I do not lurk around the Pioneer owner threads trying to drum up converts for the 850 series as if I had some sort of personal stake in the matter.

My advice to you is go be helpful to your fellow Pioneer owners, and save your opinions regarding the 850 until such time as you purchase one and can speak from a place of actual experience with the set.

And there are other threads that specifically deal with comparing Pioneer vs. Panasonic that are ideal for you to post your pro-Pioneer opinions. Spewing official specs and stats published by the manufacturers doesn't make you an expert anymore than picking a super bowl winner at the beginning of the season based on what team looks the best "on paper."

I would not even consider the Cnet reviews as the "final word" on a product. At best, the "expert" reviews are simply a good place to start one's search for a quality product. The rest is all subject to personal preference.

Your personal preference appears to be the sets that look best on paper. Mine will always be what looks best to my own eyes. And right now, that's the Panasonic 850U. And that's why you won't see me posting anywhere but this thread since I got it.

If you ever see me in a Pioneer thread stirring up debate about competing brands, then, by all means, take me to school on something you clearly ARE an expert in. Otherwise, please dial back all the Pioneer rhetoric, and confine your posts on this thread to any personal knowledge or experience you have with the Panasonic 850 series other than what you read off the Panasonic spec sheet.

Finally, in an effort to keep this thread more on-topic, perhaps we can all agree to address future inquiries regarding the 850 series with responses limited to our own personal knowledge of, and experience with the unit. It might be a good idea for those considering purchasing the 850 to post here for feedback on the 850, and then post for feedback on other brands/units in threads targeted towards said brands/units.

Obviously, we here are biased towards our purchases, and other brand owners towards theirs. It's unproductive to get into endless, pointless debates on brand-specific threads on which make and model is the best. For while certainly some people are seeking out the absolute highest rated unit, I believe the majority of consumers are simply looking to get a high-quality HDTV for the lowest possible price without winding up with a lemon.

Anyone who's read all 16 pages of this thread can clearly see that there's a fairly UNANIMOUS opinion by all actual owners of the 850U that it is, indeed, a true winner, great value, and high-quality plasma TV. The only way you can go wrong purchasing this TV is if you are one of the very few unlucky people who were delivered a faulty set. This happens with all products, and odds are quite high you will get a good one if you exchange it right away.

In closing, I just watched Dark Knight on Blu-ray Saturday night, and it did look really fantastic on this set. However, I watched a newly minted Netflix copy, and there were a couple of issues with the DVD I wonder if anyone else noticed. First, I could not get the disc to display a main menu. It just kept wanting to auto-play the movie from the start. Second, during a lot of the high action scenes, the aspect ratio would revert to 16:9 from the Cinescope "letterbox" width that was the default play version.

Anyone have any insight on why this is? I'm guessing perhaps the studio was rushing it to DVD for the holiday buying season and didn't have time to complete proper formatting or a decent motion menu. Just a guess, though. I am by no means implying that I'm an expert on the subject. ~ Crag
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post #470 of 1862 Old 12-23-2008, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by robbyrockets View Post
D-NICE did you bother looking at the charts and post calibration numbers on my 850?

Anyone here can freely compare my numbers and especially the CIE charts and graphs to the review you did on the 6020, and as the factual numbers show, the difference is minimal.

I agree that the Pioneer is the epitome of picture quality, the problem I have is that you make it out to be a far more dramatic difference between the two then it really is.

Again, I've posted numbers, charts, and graphs, please feel free to compare, and one last time, this is a Panasonic tweaks post, not a Pioneer vs Panasonic post, if you don't have any numbers to post concerning the 850 series Panasonic then at least try to stick to the subject, I hate when a post gets derailed by someone trying to convince the world that there opinion is the only opinion that matters.
Hold on here buddy. I'm not interesting in getting into a pissing match. Yes I did check out your charts and yes, the 6020 is STILL better...by the numbers and my eyes. If you think your numbers and eye tell you something different, so be it. However, I've been around both long enough to readily see differences...espcially with the gamma and color luminance. I've attached a 6020 calibration report for you to check against your numbers. Please pay close attention to the gamma and color luminance levels. The both make a HUGE impact on the PQ.

Quote:
I'll be the first to admit that I'm not Joe Knowitall, especially when it comes to the Pioneer line, so feel free to teach me about Pioneers use of filters, I'd especially like to understand why some Panasonics have a green tinge to them when their off. As I stated earlier in this post, one never stops learning in this field,and I LOVE to learn new things.
Every PDP manufacturer uses a color filter and AR coating. Panasonic uses a proprietary color filter and a Fujitsu AR fiilm. The AR film's green tint is used to enhance colors....specifically green and blue.

Pioneer uses its own proprietary color filter and AR coating. Their AR coating is not used to improve colors. However their color filter is designed to enhance red. Anything else you would like to know?

 

Pioneer PDP-6020FD Post Calibration Report (Movie Mode).pdf 176.9541015625k . file


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post #471 of 1862 Old 12-23-2008, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by CragAntler View Post

With all due respect to your near-10K postings... (seriously, where do you even find time to watch TV??)... with every post, you come off more and more as a Pioneer senior sales rep.

I don't work for Pioneer.

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Again, I ask, why are you lurking on this thread, which is about the Panasonic 850u series, when you yourself admit you don't even own one?

I "lurk' in all threads. Is that a crime?

Quote:


I might understand if you were posting here looking for opinions on the 850 from actual owners in order to help you decide to get one or not, but all I ever see from you is a laundry list of so-called "facts" regarding Pioneer specs versus Panasonic; and it seems quite important to you to be the fact-checking "sheriff" on everyone's posts throughout the entire forum.

I hate people who post half-assed comments that I know are not true. It doesn't matter if it is regarding Pioneer, Panasonic, Samsung, plasmas, or LCDs. If I see BS, I'm going to "check it". Although my post history shows more "fact checking" regarding Pioneer, by no means can you not find multiple posts regarding "fact checking" with other brands and/or technologies.

Quote:


That said, your own post claims that the rival set to the 850 is the 6020, so therefore my opinion that the 850 is the better choice over the 5020 seems to ring true.

I don't recall ever making this statement. Can you provide a link to one of my posts that specifically states this?

Quote:


The rest of my OPINIONS, however, are just that. Opinions, and personal ones at that, based solely upon my own research both over the net, as well as showroom visits. I have seen the 6020 fully calibrated in a Magnolia low light showroom. The PQ was excellent, IMO, with very inky blacks, but the rest of the pic seemed darker than would suit MY PERSONAL PREFERENCE. It also cost -- at that store -- nearly 2K more than what they were asking for the 850u.

here is the issue I have with you....

You never posted anything as your "opinion". You posted inaccurate comments regarding both Pioneer and Panasonic PDPs and presented them as factual information. You did the same thing with DCI stating that it provides the colors "filmmakers wanted you to see". You were "checked" on that post too

BTW, since when does BB or Magnolia have the capability of properly calibrating a 6020? You can only "properly" calibrate the 6020 in Movie mode (one of the negative points for that particular display). Noone in the BB organization has the proper tools to do such calibration.

Quote:


The A550 had a beautiful picture, and nice, dark blacks. It also had issues with permanent image retention,

No it doesn't. Samsungs have issues with IR. IR is NOT burn in. For the record there isn't a 2008 model PDP that has any major issues with burn in.


Quote:


Regarding all the specs and stats you spew in your quest to prove how much better the Pioneer sets are... so what? I think most everyone here agrees that Pioneer is the overall quality leader in consumer plasma TV's. And my only major claim is that the 850 series is a better overall VALUE than the Pioneers are; i.e., more bang for one's buck.

I've also regularly expressed the opinion that, in the end, the only opinion that matters is one's PERSONAL TASTE in what they consider to be the "best" picture. As an actual OWNER of a TH58PZ850U, I choose to share my opinions and advice on this model TV -- here in the appropriate thread -- to other owners or other persons interested in my opinion about the set. I do not lurk around the Pioneer owner threads trying to drum up converts for the 850 series as if I had some sort of personal stake in the matter.

Ok, you are starting to rant here and defend your purchase. I'm not interested in basing anyone purchase. I have never done that and never will. You're happy with your purchase and thats that.

Quote:


My advice to you is go be helpful to your fellow Pioneer owners, and save your opinions regarding the 850 until such time as you purchase one and can speak from a place of actual experience with the set.

My advise to you is to know exactly who you are speaking to. I know more about the panel you currently do than you ever will (I guess you don't know that I calibrate numerous display models including the 850u). I also know more than you when it comes to gamma, color saturation, color luminance, grayscale, intra-scene and inter-scene contrast ratios....something you as an "independent film maker" should know A LOT more about. Come to think of it, you should know a hell of a lot more about said items than i do. What films have you done again????

Quote:


I would not even consider the C-Net reviews as the "final word" on a product.

I don't acknowledge C-Net as reputable review site. I guess we "sort of agree" on something :0

[quote]Your personal preference appears to be the sets that look best on paper. Mine will always be what looks best to my own eyes. And right now, that's the Panasonic 850U. And that's why you won't see me posting anywhere but this thread since I got it.[/QUOTE}Let me clarify something for you....

I prefer the best picture that my eyes see and can be backed up with scientific measurements. I'm not foolish enough to only rely on my eyes or measurements. I want both to jiive. If you only want to go by your eyes, well... good luck with that.

Quote:


If you ever see me in a Pioneer thread stirring up debate about competing brands, then, by all means, take me to school on something you clearly ARE an expert in. Otherwise, please dial back all the Pioneer rhetoric, and confine your posts on this thread to any personal knowledge or experience you have with the Panasonic 850 series other than what you read off the Panasonic spec sheet.

Was this suppose to be an insult? You failed.

I don't rely or care to see "consumer" spec sheets. I have engineering contacts that actually create the damn PDPs.

Quote:


In closing, I just watched Dark Knight on Blu-ray Saturday night, and it did look really fantastic on this set. However, I watched a newly minted Netflix copy, and there were a couple of issues with the DVD I wonder if anyone else noticed. First, I could not get the disc to display a main menu. It just kept wanting to auto-play the movie from the start. Second, during a lot of the high action scenes, the aspect ratio would revert to 16:9 from the Cinescope "letterbox" width that was the default play version.

Anyone have any insight on why this is? I'm guessing perhaps the studio was rushing it to DVD for the holiday buying season and didn't have time to complete proper formatting or a decent motion menu. Just a guess, though. I am by no means implying that I'm an expert on the subject. ~ Crag

Are you serious??? You didn't know that the 16x9 shots are IMax shots? What rock have you been under????

in closing, you have gotten what you wanted to get off your chest. You are now saying that it is your opinion. I respect your opinion even though it's mis guided. If you want to continue this conversation, feel free to PM me. Otherwise I will stick to the topic at hand...unless you feel the need to respond to this post in this thread.


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post #472 of 1862 Old 12-23-2008, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ret513 View Post

I've recently spoke to D-Nice privately, and he said he would be happy to work on my 850 himself, even willing to drive a few hours to my home. I'm confident he can get the best out of my picture. Unfortunatly, I have to wait till much after the holidays. The moneies saved with the panny are going into a new sound system. Maybe he can turn it into a pioneer... a new Pionnic display! No, probably not, but I do love my 850 picture now, and cant even imagine it looking better!

I'm not going to leave your home until both you and I are satisfied with the end results. I will pay particular attention to the gamma as even Robert's numbers are not satisfactory to what I have seen on other 850 and 800s.


Quote:


Some questions for calibrators or anyone with calibrated sets-- These sets have temp settings and I always hear of them set to warm when calibrated. To my untrained eyes, this setting looks bad. I like everything in the normal temp setting. Can they be calibrated in normal temp setting? If it cant, and prefer factory settings, can you undo a calibration? I'm new to this and like I said, I already love the picture I'm getting now

Post calibration the preset color temperatures are going to be meaningless. I will get your set as close to 6504K as possible. i can do it in either Warm, Normal, or Cool color temps. I'll leave that decision up to you


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post #473 of 1862 Old 12-23-2008, 09:21 PM
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Where do you get the idea that I'm trying to get into as you call it "a pissing match".

So let me get this straight, when you post numbers, their factual and replaceable, when I post, I'm trying to start a "pissing match" ?

Your comments and attitude smell of extreme arrogance, I'm sure I'm not the only one that gets this impression of you.

By the way I'm not familiar enough with the Calman software to comment on allot of what I see, in spite of being one of the first people to purchase the program way back when it was still beta.

Most of what I see in your post calibration appears practically even between the two sets, I just don't get why its sooo important for you to be right.

I've already admitted that the Pioneer is the superior set, I've even allowed you to teach me something new concerning filters, and you couldnt even do that without coming across as an elitist, your people skills are sorely lacking.

All that I've done in this post is try to be a help, not everyone can afford 300 to 600 dollars for a calibration, calibrations can be pricey especially if your being charged by the input.

Your behavior is actually pretty funny, I'd prefer you stayed in the Pioneer forums, where I'm sure your ego is massaged with every word you post, but its a free country so feel free to continue to pollute this post with your arrogance, I've had enough.


P.S I'm not sure where your from, but where I'm from calling someone buddy in that tone is a slap in the face.

Pssss the reviews I was reffering to are at the bottom of every one of your posts.

Merry Christmas
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post #474 of 1862 Old 12-23-2008, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by robbyrockets View Post

Where do you get the idea that I'm trying to get into as you call it "a pissing match".

This comment:

"I hate when a post gets derailed by someone trying to convince the world that there opinion is the only opinion that matters."

I welcome and appreciate your charts.

Quote:


By the way I'm not familiar enough with the Calman software to comment on allot of what I see, in spite of being one of the first people to purchase the program way back when it was still beta.

Take it from a X-Colorfacts user...it is a hell of a lot better

Quote:


Most of what I see in your post calibration appears practically even between the two sets,

Really, So you are ok with your gamma that starts in the 1.9 range and proceeds to jump all over the place depending on stimulus level? 40-60% stimuli could be a lot better in the grayscale department. You can improve those stimuli levels by increasing your peak light output to 32-34fL instead of the current 28fL...and/or try a different combo of the Gains and Cuts. Your charts don't show the raw color plots or luminance levels for each color, but I can easily see with your CIE chart that the secondaries are off the mark. Using the tint control doesn't get you closer to the correct plots?

Quote:


I just don't get why its sooo important for you to be right.

I feel that it is important facts are provided. I have no personal desire to always be right. Hell, I've posted some inaccurate things in the past and when it is pointed out, I thank those that post the correct information. Factual information helps everyone. I will continue to ensure facts are posted instead of misguided opinions, lies, FUD, propaganda, rumors, wives tales, folklore, myths...etc regardless of what you or others think.

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I've already admitted that the Pioneer is the superior set,

Errr ok, however, we are now speaking strictly of the 850u right? I'm offering you tips on how to improve your set.

Quote:


Its actually pretty funny, I'd prefer you stayed in the Pioneer forums, where I'm sure your ego is massaged with every word you post, but its a free country so feel free to continue to pollute this post with your arrogance, I've had enough.

Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night.

I think you have misinterpreted my post. Perhaps this post will clarify a few things for you.


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post #475 of 1862 Old 12-23-2008, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by robbyrockets View Post

P.S I'm not sure where your from, but where I'm from calling someone buddy in that tone is a slap in the face.

Ok.

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Pssss the reviews I was reffering to are at the bottom of every one of your posts.

You do realize that the 6020 in my 6020 review was not calibrated per the service menu, right?

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Merry Christmas

Merry Christmas to you too


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ret513, feel free to post D-NICE's post calibration numbers, specifically the grayscale numbers as I have the feeling that they will mirror mine pretty closely.

Target 6504K

What I achieved from 20ire to 100ire in the first, D-NICE 6020 in the second.

20: 6496 6561
30: 6496 6523
40: 6388 6478
50: 6400 6528
60: 6543 6525
70: 6412 6480
80: 6527 6509
90: 6499 6507
100: 6445 6485

All your gammas range from 2.0 to 2.1 so your point is? My luminance targets were at worst 5% off, which is imperceptible to the human eye.
When I was trained by Gregg Loewen, he taught me that it was always better to be under then over the 6504K target and yet your over with practically all your ire levels.
Your not gonna say that Gregg, the same guy thats teaching the THX calibration course is wrong are you?

Its obvious to me that your skill level and knowledge are far beyond mine, and thats o.k, thats probably the reason you use Calman instead of Colorfacts Proffesional 7.5, but would you care to share your history with us, like who taught you, what equipment you uses and so forth. I'm mean this with the utmost respect.

The service menu was the only option I had as far as doing all 3 colors. I didn't lock any of the colors when doing the grayscale calibration.
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post #477 of 1862 Old 12-23-2008, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I "lurk' in all threads. Is that a crime?

Not at all. It is, however, clear evidence of OCD.

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I hate people who post half-assed comments that I know are not true. It doesn't matter if it is regarding Pioneer, Panasonic, Samsung, plasmas, or LCDs. If I see BS, I'm going to "check it".

Okay, so now I'm at least clear what motivates your authoritarianism... your "hate."

Quote:


here is the issue I have with you....

You never posted anything as your "opinion". You posted inaccurate comments regarding both Pioneer and Panasonic PDPs and presented them as factual information. You did the same thing with DCI stating that it provides the colors "filmmakers wanted you to see". You were "checked" on that post too

Yes, guilty as charged. I've already admitted to my error with regard to the Pioneer model numbers. As for the D.C.C. setting, I was paraphrasing off of the CNet review as they had described what DCC was. And until I actually state that something is an actual FACT, from now on let's just assume everything I post about my admittedly limited knowledge of plasma technology is solely my own personal opinion.

Quote:


BTW, since when does BB or Magnolia have the capability of properly calibrating a 6020? You can only "properly" calibrate the 6020 in Movie mode (one of the negative points for that particular display). Noone in the BB organization has the proper tools to do such calibration.

Why are you asking me? Aren't you supposed to be the Omniscient One? I guess next time the sales rep at a high-end dealer tells me a set's been calibrated, I'll take your arrogant tone with him and see if I can get as good a deal.

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Samsungs have issues with IR. IR is NOT burn in. For the record there isn't a 2008 model PDP that has any major issues with burn in.

Oh, I'm so excited you said this because I totally get to take you to school! Please read my post again, and note that I said "permanent image retention." Um, that synonymous with "burn-in," Einstein.

And, again, having been an actual owner of not one, but two -- count 'em -- TWO Samsung 58A550's, I totally get to speak from experience when I say that my first panel immediately suffered permanent IR/BURN-IN after only 90 mins of viewing a letterboxed Cinemascope copy of 2001: A Space Odyssey. I ran anti-IR measures for the following 29 days trying to clean it off to no avail before exchanging it for another. That one (sorry, Barack), actually arrived with three distinguishable horizontal bands of bluish burn-in that also resisted all attempts to wipe it clear. These are FACTS observed by an actual owner of two separate units of the same 2008 model. Boom! You just got served, dude, so shut your piehole!

Quote:


Ok, you are starting to rant here and defend your purchase.

I don't need to defend my purchase. Pretty much every post on this thread -- excepting those from you -- defends most every one of my claims regarding the 850 series.

Quote:


My advise to you is to know exactly who you are speaking to. I know more about the panel you currently do than you ever will (I guess you don't know that I calibrate numerous display models including the 850u). I also know more than you when it comes to gamma, color saturation, color luminance, grayscale, intra-scene and inter-scene contrast ratios....something you as an "independent film maker" should know A LOT more about. Come to think of it, you should know a hell of a lot more about said items than i do. What films have you done again????

I think it's quite clear who I'm speaking to: someone who spends their every waking hour either calibrating HDTV's or posting on this forum, and not much else. For whatever reasons, you need to be acknowledged as the Grand Ayatollah of HD Gearheads, and you get quite agitated when anyone deigns to challenge Your Almighty Word on a matter. And for what it's worth, I haven't a doubt in my mind that you are light years ahead of me in knowledge of All Things Plasma.

That said, please don't assume to know what a filmmaker should know. I'm a writer, a director, and an editor. My knowledge base covers many things probably quite alien to you, such as story structure, the "Hero's Journey arc," major plot points, shooting coverage for the edit, creating interesting, believable characters, casting and knowing the difference between a real actor and a wannabe, etc, etc... I do not have, nor do any directors that I know have time nor interest in any of that technical detail you falsely assume I should know. That stuff is better left to "gearheads" like yourself who get a big fat chubby over the latest release of Final Cut Studio or the newest 3-chip P2 HD camcorder. Film is a collaborative art form. I enjoy working with bright, talented people towards a common goal. I can't be concerned with every little detail because there simply isn't time. With regard to PQ, I only know when it either looks good, or it doesn't, with the benchmark being how I want the scene to look or what mood I'm going for. I leave it to you gearheads to know how to get it there.

I hire people like you because you're really good at one or two functions of the dozens required to put a film together. Of course, if you spoke to me on the set the way you do here, I'd replace you as fast as possible because you seem to lack the art of compromise.

Quote:


I don't acknowledge C-Net as reputable review site. I guess we "sort of agree" on something :0

Again, go back and re-read my post. We don't even "sort of agree" on this. I, in fact, acknowledge the CNet reviews as a great place to start in one's search for a quality purchase. That means I believe their reviews have valuable merit, if not the final word.

Quote:


Was this suppose to be an insult? You failed.

Off with my head!

Quote:


I don't rely or care to see "consumer" spec sheets. I have engineering contacts that actually create the damn PDPs.

Really? May I touch the hem of your toga?

Quote:


Are you serious??? You didn't know that the 16x9 shots are IMax shots? What rock have you been under????

Uh... the rock of having a LIFE.

Quote:


I respect your opinion even though it's misguided.

Oh, Lord, your mercy is truly boundless!

Anyone who's interested in how I picture D-Nice might appear and behave like in person, check out the sitcom I always mention: The Big Bang Theory, Mondays at 8 pm on CBS.

D-Nice is "Sheldon."

~ Crag
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post #478 of 1862 Old 12-24-2008, 12:32 AM
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Alright, enough you guys... I respect both of your opinions.

I sure wish I could afford the Pioneer, but I've finely decided on getting the 850...

My right of passage has been... I went from the Elite, too expensive for me, then the 5020, still too expensive although it is getting to a very reasonable cost... Also the 5020's are starting to get scarce from what I hear...

I then went into the LCD camp and narrowed it down from Sony to Samsung. I initially decided on the 50" 650 then after some research here, I found about about the Panasonic 800 and 850 sets.

The 800 is more in the price range I want, but again, they're getting scarce and the 850 is looking pretty well priced these days.

Not sure when I will pull the trigger... but will most likely wait till the Bowl games start when I suspect TV's will be going on sale.

Anyway CraigAntler, Dnice, robbyrockets and others here have tons of more knowledge about this topic than I and I really appreciate everyone's input...

We all need to take a break and stop the character assassinations and understand egos among the elite do have sensitive areas that need to be respected by all.

Take care and Merry Christmas to you both and everyone else on this forum and thread.

Dennis

Belief has no affect on Reality!


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post #479 of 1862 Old 12-24-2008, 01:11 AM
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Sorry Crag but these forums are to disseminate accurate info.....something usually helpful and oddly cantankerous D-Nice almost always does.

Scotty
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post #480 of 1862 Old 12-24-2008, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbyrockets View Post

What I achieved from 20ire to 100ire in the first, D-NICE 6020 in the second.

20: 6496 6561
30: 6496 6523
40: 6388 6478
50: 6400 6528
60: 6543 6525
70: 6412 6480
80: 6527 6509
90: 6499 6507

100: 6445 6485

Where did your numbers come from Robert? My comments are based on the report you posted in post# 416 of this thread (dated 12/18/08). Per your post, which you said was the final calibration, are as follows:

IRE TEMP
20 6,437
30 6,536
40 6,654
50 6,686
60 6,556
70 6,600
80 6,499
90 6,541
100 6,535

The numbers highlighted in read are completely difference than what you just posted. Explanation?????

Quote:


All your gammas range from 2.0 to 2.1 so your point is?

I think you need to re-read those numbers. The lowest is 2.07 and the highest is 2.12. Rounding to the tenth decimal place, as you are doing, would be 2.1 not 2.0 for every single stimuli%.

Quote:


My luminance targets were at worst 5% off, which is imperceptible to the human eye.

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to disagree here. Your deviations are quite bad when it comes to a linear gamma curve. Comparing your gamma curve to a linear one, you will easily see that the picture is too flat. This is the primary reason why many Panasonic 800u and 850u owners complain about a haze over the picture. You can do better with your gamma curve and I'm more that happy to assist you.

Quote:


When I was trained by Gregg Loewen,

I already knew this. Great guy and has much respect and admiration from me

Quote:


he taught me that it was always better to be under then over the 6504K target and yet your over with practically all your ire levels.

Are you sure about this one? I never heard him say anything like this. At any rate, your posted charts reflect that you are well over 6504 on numerous stimuli levels...coincidently also above my numbers

Quote:


Its obvious to me that your skill level and knowledge are far beyond mine, and thats o.k, thats probably the reason you use Calman instead of Colorfacts Proffesional 7.5, but would you care to share your history with us, like who taught you, what equipment you uses and so forth. I'm mean this with the utmost respect.

Self taught, picking up tips from numerous calibrators including Gregg. I'm planning on taking the ISF and THX tests this coming March...although like you I think they are worthless and do not represent the skill set of an individual

Equipment wise, I currently only use the i1pro and PR-655 (the latter only when needed). I will be upgrading to a Klein K-10 and Orb SP-100 with the latter coming first. I have an Accupel 4000 pattern generator, AMEC-813 luminance meter, GetGray, AVS709, HD-DVD DVE, BD DVE, SD DVE, Silicon Optix test disc on BD and SD DVD plus numerous other calibration and test discs. I use to use CF 7.5, however, I wasn't satisfied with some of its functionality and moved on the CalMAN.

Anytime you need help with a PDP calibration, feel free to PM me. I will be more than happy pass on what I know. If you don't already know, there are a lot of seasoned calibrators who would be reluctant to do that.

Quote:


The service menu was the only option I had as far as doing all 3 colors. I didn't lock any of the colors when doing the grayscale calibration.

Are you speaking of grayscale or primary colors? You cannot change the locations of the primary colors in the Service Menu.


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