The Official PANASONIC PZ850u thread - All sizes (settings, feedback, etc...) - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 1862 Old 01-14-2009, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by lazi0ne View Post

How is the change in light output post robbie-settings? I still find custom mode a bit dark at times - also lacking some shadow detail.

I didn't notice much difference in brightness, but if anything light output is probably a bit lower. I watch movies in a totally dark environment so it's fine for me. It's certainly less bright than any of the 'prepackaged' settings though. I watch TV in 'cinema' or 'standard' mode, if the lights are on.
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post #722 of 1862 Old 01-14-2009, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by oatmeal769 View Post

I didn't notice much difference in brightness, but if anything light output is probably a bit lower. I watch movies in a totally dark environment so it's fine for me. It's certainly less bright than any of the 'prepackaged' settings though. I watch TV in 'cinema' or 'standard' mode, if the lights are on.

Err I was hoping to increase the light output a bit in custom. I would prefer some kind of cross between custom and standard..
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post #723 of 1862 Old 01-14-2009, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill_H View Post

I'm not an expert, but here's my best shot at it:

An HDTV broadcast at 1080i is encoded at 60 interlaced frames/sec. Each interlaced frame contains half of the horizontal lines on the screen (odd lines or even lines). Plasma TVs can only display all 1080 lines simultaneously (1080p), so for normal video, the Panasonic will assemble the odd lines from one frame with the even lines from the following frame to create the entire image. I am not familiar with the algorithm used to deinterlace frames, but I believe it is more complex than just superimposing the interlaced lines.

3:2 pulldown comes in if the original source was shot at 24 frames/sec, and then remastered into 1080i. Of couse, 60/24 = 2.5, which is not equal to a whole number, so the frames of film are encoded in the studio as:


==FILM=======|======HDTV Broadcast=========
Film Frame 1 ---|- Interlaced frame 1, odd 1/60
----------------|- Interlaced frame 2, even 2/60
----------------|- Interlaced frame 3, odd 3/60 A
.......................|.................................... .................
Film frame 2 ---|- Interlaced frame 4, even 4/60 B
----------------|- Interlaced frame 5, odd 5/60
---------------------------------------------------------
Total time encoded above = 1/12 sec for both sources


If the plasma tries to de-interlace HDTV frames 1 and 2, it will be combining lines taken from the same frame of film, and the image will resemble the original film image. when it de-interlaces between frames 3 and 4 (labeled "A" and "B") it will be combining lines from film frame 1 with film frame 2, which will show some loss of detail or artifacts.

Enabling 3:2 pulldown on the 850 will cause the Panasonic to detect the repeated frames in the HDTV signal, and will not deinterlace between "A" and "B", thus there should be no frames displayed that are hybrids of 2 film frames. Instead, the first film frame will be deinterlaced, then displayed 3 times, then the second film frame will be assembled and displayed twice. However, since no hybrid frame is created between A and B, the A-B transition will be a harder transition, and the uneven framerate may be more noticeable.


If I am understanding this correctly, the only time you would need this on is when you are displaying a 24fps image that is also in 1080i. If that is the case I do not think I will ever be doing that as the only 1080i stuff I watch is broadcast HD which would already be at 60. Am I correct?
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post #724 of 1862 Old 01-14-2009, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lazi0ne View Post

Sounds like Motion Interpolation to me. In which case I don't mind passing.

However on the 48hz/flicker situation, It's aggravating to me that Panasonic Concierge claimed a firmware fix was in the making, yet Panasonic reps at CES say otherwise. Oh well, I'm over it as I finish this sentence!

I have tried using my 50" 850A with the "intelligent frame creation" (IFC) on for a couple of days, then of of a couple of days. >70% of the time - IFC looks definitely better, 20% - IFC caused a noticable change, but not necessarily worse, and <10% - the IFC looked worse - picture blurry on fast pans.

For American sourced 1080i HDTV, Oprah, Ellen and Dr Phill, the IFC makes a huuge improvement.

Blu-ray;

'The Dark Knight' courtroom scene... deep breath... the IFC makes this scene look eye-poppingly amazing. Take if from me, 24p allways flickers. The IFC on here (ie psudo 48p) causes the actors to leap of the screen, especially in the shots with the shallow depth of field. Infact, the whole movie looks superb with the IFC on. Once you have seen this, you will never want to go back...

IRON MAN - better with IFC, very smooth rolling credits.

SPEED RACER - IFC could not fix left to right panning jitter, the IFC may even make this worse.

'The Land Of Parrots' 720P 50P PAL HDTV (BTW, the very best picture quality I have ever seen, is also on Blu-Ray). IFC is better for most of this movie, but clearly worse during a fast L-R pan.

The new Panny projectors now have IFC, and I would suspect all release new Panels and Projectors will have some form of the IFC to overcome the inherent flicker of 24fps.

Is frame doubling as per the movie Producer intended ? You would have to ask them. I suspect that given the chance, the Producer would opt for 200fps, if this tech was available and in wide spread use.
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post #725 of 1862 Old 01-14-2009, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webapalooza View Post

Ask and ye shall receive:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post15519507

These images should be considered in "beta" form right now, so use them carefully. I'm looking for feedback as to what people think of them and whether or not they work as expected.

Enjoy!

Just letting everyone know that I've posted an updated version of the break-in images, which fixes a problem that some Panasonic TVs have with displaying certain types of JPGs. If anyone has trouble with the new images, let me know. Images can be found here:

http://www.webapalooza.com/plasma/
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post #726 of 1862 Old 01-14-2009, 04:09 PM
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Thanks to all of you for helping me in making my decision to purchase the Panasonic TH-58PZ850U. It is being delivered Saturday! You guys rock!
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post #727 of 1862 Old 01-14-2009, 07:12 PM
 
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Thanks to all of you for helping me in making my decision to purchase the Panasonic TH-58PZ850U. It is being delivered Saturday! You guys rock!

Congrats! Be prepared to be blown away!
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post #728 of 1862 Old 01-14-2009, 09:13 PM
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Thanks to all for the info and advice. We had our "come to Jesus" meeting over Christmas, found the TVs in an upscale BestBuy so could compare the Pioneer 5020 side by side with the Panasonic PZ850 and selected the Panasonic on merit. Jet Black isn't the entire world of image quality. Ordered from Cleveland Plasma for $1,650 plus shipping and received it yesterday. DirecTV installed my new HR23-700 HD-DVR today. Got it all fired up, figured out how to get the receiver to supply an HD signal to the TV and we're in business. When I called wife into the room to show her HD on the new tv her jaw dropped. It's magnificent on Studio Reference without any calibration (later). Will be running in Standard with lowered settings for the first 100 hrs. then calibration. We're happy campers. Thanks to all for the guidance.
Regards,
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post #729 of 1862 Old 01-14-2009, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustwvl View Post

If I am understanding this correctly, the only time you would need this on is when you are displaying a 24fps image that is also in 1080i. If that is the case I do not think I will ever be doing that as the only 1080i stuff I watch is broadcast HD which would already be at 60. Am I correct?

Not quite- it is used when a 24fps signal has been converted to 1080i... so 3:2 can be used anytime you watch a movie on broadcast HDTV. For example, if "Die Hard" is on TNTHD, then somebody in the studio made the conversion from the original 24fps film to 1080i 60fps HDTV, and this was most likely done using the pattern shown in that table I made earlier.

Even some primetime dramas on the major networks seem to get detected by the 3:2 pulldown. I know "Boston Legal" definitely looks much worse when 3:2 pulldown is on because so much of it is filmed with jerky pans and zooms.
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post #730 of 1862 Old 01-15-2009, 05:26 AM
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beautiful on standard and studio ref at lowered settings for break-in; calibration to follow. no buzz detected. this set is already stunning. looking forward to being blown away after calibration.

i had trouble with audio and video out from my sony a/v. here's what i did: cable to comcast hd cable box. hdmi out from cable box to sony a/v 'sat in' connection. hdmi out from ps3 to sony a/v 'dvd in' connection. hdmi out from sony a/v to tv hdmi in. result: no sound or picture with sony a/v set to 'tv'. also tried labeling hdmi on tv to 'receiver' and then to 'cable' with no luck. i resorted to running each component directly to the tv's hdmi inputs and running an audio optical out from the tv to the receiver and everything worked.

question: which forum should i use to troubleshoot this connection problem? if all else fails, i'll just leave it as is until i get the system calibrated and ask the technician to hook it all correctly through the sony a/v receiver.
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post #731 of 1862 Old 01-15-2009, 05:36 AM
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Well, I guess I'll jump in here and say that as of Monday, I'm also a proud owner of this wonderful model.

Having come from a Samsung 46a860, I immediately noticed a night and day difference. I was never happy with the Sammy's color and especially the backlight bleeding (clouding and flashlighting). I also have noticed no flickring with my set. I have tried out some of the more prone scenes such as the Dark Knight batcave scenes. Nothing. Not that I was too concerned, but just thought it was interesting.

I feel the colors and blacks are awesome and I can't wait until the set break's in because I understand it will look even better.

I plan on doing my own calibration initially and see how close I can get. If I'm not totally happy, then I will call in a professional. I have an X-Rite colorometer and te directions for the Curt Palme Calibratoin for Dummies, so I think I maight be alright. I just plan on writing everything down before touching any SM items.

Thanks to everyone in this thread, as it helped in making my decision to go with Panasonic.
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post #732 of 1862 Old 01-15-2009, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueMonkeyGlider View Post

beautiful on standard and studio ref at lowered settings for break-in; calibration to follow. no buzz detected. this set is already stunning. looking forward to being blown away after calibration.

i had trouble with audio and video out from my sony a/v. here's what i did: cable to comcast hd cable box. hdmi out from cable box to sony a/v 'sat in' connection. hdmi out from ps3 to sony a/v 'dvd in' connection. hdmi out from sony a/v to tv hdmi in. result: no sound or picture with sony a/v set to 'tv'. also tried labeling hdmi on tv to 'receiver' and then to 'cable' with no luck. i resorted to running each component directly to the tv's hdmi inputs and running an audio optical out from the tv to the receiver and everything worked.

question: which forum should i use to troubleshoot this connection problem? if all else fails, i'll just leave it as is until i get the system calibrated and ask the technician to hook it all correctly through the sony a/v receiver.

On the Sony a/v INPUT SETUP menu , did you set up your specific input assignments (correctly assigned all of your inputs). What model Sony a/v do you have? You can post in the "Audio Area" forum under "AMPs, Receivers, and Processors".
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post #733 of 1862 Old 01-15-2009, 07:52 AM
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jchin,

thx for the tip. i have the sony STRDG720 7.1 no, i did not setup component assignments on the a/v. guess it's time to pull out the manual!

i'll check out the forum you mentioned.
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post #734 of 1862 Old 01-15-2009, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webapalooza View Post

Just letting everyone know that I've posted an updated version of the break-in images, which fixes a problem that some Panasonic TVs have with displaying certain types of JPGs. If anyone has trouble with the new images, let me know. Images can be found here:

http://www.webapalooza.com/plasma/

I ran the original break-in images for about 24 hours over three nights, as well as watching my '58PZ850u the TV on low "Standard" settings over the same first couple/few weeks I had it. My guess is that the TV has now logged about 200 hours of action. My question is whether there is any benefit to running the updated break-in images at this time?
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post #735 of 1862 Old 01-15-2009, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinLawyer View Post

Ordered from Cleveland Plasma for $1,650 plus shipping and received it yesterday. We're happy campers. Thanks to all for the guidance.
Regards,
SmokinLawyer

What size set did you buy? Did you get the 50" or 46" 850?

Dennis

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post #736 of 1862 Old 01-15-2009, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbyrockets View Post


HDMI1

Service Menu:

Contrast - 000
Color - 3F
Tint - 03
Sub-Brt - 800

Hey Robby,

I was looking around in the service menu last night, but did not make any changes. I found a post in the 800u thread that was very specific on how to get into the service menu and navigate it, so I'm more comfortable there (albeit still a little nervous, lol). So with reference to the settings quoted above, I was not able to find the screen for Color, Tint, and Sub-Brt. Found the Contrast and White Balance no prob, but was a bit unsure of myself in the navigation and was unable to locate those 3.

Help??

Thanks,

Mike
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post #737 of 1862 Old 01-15-2009, 12:36 PM
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In setting up my Custom mode settings, I pretty much followed CNET's recommendations in the Pro section and am generally satisfied with the results. However, one significant shortcoming is in how bright whites, such as white shirts and football uniforms, look. The whites are simply too shiny, but lowering the brightness level dulls the rest of the picture. Is there a certain setting in the Pro menu, such as one or more of the W/B settings, that could be adjusted to better effect?
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post #738 of 1862 Old 01-15-2009, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by s2silber View Post

In setting up my Custom mode settings, I pretty much followed CNET's recommendations in the Pro section and am generally satisfied with the results. However, one significant shortcoming is in how bright whites, such as white shirts and football uniforms look. The whites are simply too shiny, but lowering the brightness level dulls the rest of the picture. Is there a certain setting in the Pro menu, such as one or more of the W/B settings which could be adjusted to better effect?

Try turning "Picture" down. I've found that Picture affects bright areas and Brightness affects dark areas.
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post #739 of 1862 Old 01-16-2009, 04:54 AM
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I found the link to Evangelos' break in images. It is available in 3 formats that can be unzipped and burned onto a CD. Which one should I download? Also, is there a version compatible with a flash drive?

I've read conflicting views about using this type of break in program. Is there a consensus opinion for or against using these types of break in programs?
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post #740 of 1862 Old 01-16-2009, 07:13 AM
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Th-46pz850u
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post #741 of 1862 Old 01-16-2009, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueMonkeyGlider View Post

I found the link to Evangelos' break in images. It is available in 3 formats that can be unzipped and burned onto a CD. Which one should I download? Also, is there a version compatible with a flash drive?

I've read conflicting views about using this type of break in program. Is there a consensus opinion for or against using these types of break in programs?

webapalooza also put together some great images. You can find them here.
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post #742 of 1862 Old 01-16-2009, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueMonkeyGlider View Post

I found the link to Evangelos' break in images. It is available in 3 formats that can be unzipped and burned onto a CD. Which one should I download? Also, is there a version compatible with a flash drive?

I've read conflicting views about using this type of break in program. Is there a consensus opinion for or against using these types of break in programs?

There's a lot of debate about using break-in images, and after reading all the viewpoints and opinions here's my take on it.

You can "break-in" a plasma by simply being careful how you watch it for the first 100 hours (or more). Meaning, fully stretched image with no black bars, avoiding static graphics (like logo bugs, news/stock/score tickers, video game stats, etc.)

You would also want to keep your settings (brightness, contrast, picture, etc.) set fairly low during the break-in period.

Using break-in images burned to a DVD or stored on a flash drive or memory card is another option. If you choose to do this, it's probably wise to "ramp up" slowly by not running the TV for hours on end at first, but instead starting with an hour or two per day and increasing it gradually over time.

Modern plasma TVs are fairly resilient when it comes to avoiding burn-in. You would have to be rather careless to experience burn-in. Here's what Panasonic says:

"Much has been written about the possibility of permanently marking a plasma screen by viewing a static image on the screen for too long. This is often referred to as static image burn in, which is a misnomer. The phosphors are never burnt, rather they are unevenly aged. While the possibility of uneven aging exists, it can also occur with any other phosphor-based display such as a direct-view CRT television or CRT rear projection TV. Panasonic has developed new phosphors that are resistant to image burn-in and has added other features that minimize its occurrence."

So, the whole idea of using break-in images in the first place is really to "age" the phosphors as "evenly" as possible. That was the intent of the images I created, which in slideshow mode will cycle through various colors and shades of the grayscale in such a way that every pixel (red, green, and blue) is required to exert varying levels of energy (from 0% to 100%, in 20% increments), where the total amount of energy required is the same for every pixel, and where every pixel is "on" for the exact same length of time, all combined with frequent periods of "rest" (where the pixels are completely black, or "off").

In summary, no, you don't "need" to use break-in images. You can break-in the TV by simply watching it under carefully controlled conditions for the first 100 hours (or more). That said, only by using properly designed break-in images can you be 100% assured that the phosphors have been evenly aged across the entire 1920x1080 pixel field. There simply is no other way to do it with that level of precision.
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post #743 of 1862 Old 01-16-2009, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by s2silber View Post

In setting up my Custom mode settings, I pretty much followed CNET's recommendations in the Pro section and am generally satisfied with the results. However, one significant shortcoming is in how bright whites, such as white shirts and football uniforms, look. The whites are simply too shiny, but lowering the brightness level dulls the rest of the picture. Is there a certain setting in the Pro menu, such as one or more of the W/B settings, that could be adjusted to better effect?

Same for me with cnet settings. I feel guilty with all settings available on 850, I now use only stud. ref for both day and night.
Over 500hrs, my pic no longer looks dim. It is nice to just watch tv and not keep playing with pic. For now, this works best for me:
Stud.Ref
pic: 85
brt: 74
clr: 41
tnt: -2
temp: normal
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post #744 of 1862 Old 01-16-2009, 10:47 AM
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can you conect a 58PZ850U to a wireless network I have a links router already can you use a bridge has anyone done this


Thanks Tim
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post #745 of 1862 Old 01-16-2009, 11:00 AM
 
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can you conect a 58PZ850U to a wireless network I have a links router already can you use a bridge has anyone done this


Thanks Tim

Absolutely. I bought the LinkSys Dual-Band Wireless-N Gaming Adapter. Works perfectly!
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post #746 of 1862 Old 01-16-2009, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by dustwvl View Post

If I am understanding this correctly, the only time you would need this on is when you are displaying a 24fps image that is also in 1080i. If that is the case I do not think I will ever be doing that as the only 1080i stuff I watch is broadcast HD which would already be at 60. Am I correct?

Here's a pretty good article that explains 1080i, 1080p, 24p, 3:2 pulldown, and all that good stuff:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...07-part-1.html
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post #747 of 1862 Old 01-16-2009, 11:35 AM
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Congrats! Be prepared to be blown away!

Quote:
Originally Posted by buylongterm View Post

Absolutely. I bought the LinkSys Dual-Band Wireless-N Gaming Adapter. Works perfectly!


I'm ordering my wireless adapter as we speak. The wealth of knowledge here is amazing. I almost made the mistake of ordering a Bose 321 system to keep the Panny company. I then did some research here and see that more can be had for less.
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post #748 of 1862 Old 01-16-2009, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ret513 View Post

Same for me with cnet settings. I feel guilty with all settings available on 850, I now use only stud. ref for both day and night.
Over 500hrs, my pic no longer looks dim. It is nice to just watch tv and not keep playing with pic. For now, this works best for me:
Stud.Ref
pic: 85
brt: 74
clr: 41
tnt: -2
temp: normal

First of all, let me say you have every right to tweak your settings however your personal preference dictates. That said, IMO, you should leave the Studio Ref preset at its default settings, and use the Custom preset to do your tweaking.

Or even one of the other presets. S.R. is the LAST preset I would consider altering, simply because it's the ONLY preset that comes very close to a fully optimized calibration for this model. Not to mention that the Custom preset is the only one that allows you to access the "pro" settings menu for even finer tweaking. ~ Crag
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post #749 of 1862 Old 01-16-2009, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Pepster returns View Post


"For American sourced 1080i HDTV, Oprah, Ellen and Dr Phill, the IFC makes a huuge improvement."

Wow, that must be some setting The mute button makes a huge improvement for me

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post #750 of 1862 Old 01-16-2009, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustwvl View Post

If I am understanding this correctly, the only time you would need this on is when you are displaying a 24fps image that is also in 1080i. If that is the case I do not think I will ever be doing that as the only 1080i stuff I watch is broadcast HD which would already be at 60. Am I correct?

All due respect to Bill_H, who did a great job explaining 3:2 pulldown, just a couple small corrections:

48Hz vs. 60Hz are refresh rates, not to be confused with FPS (frames per second).

Feature film is shot at 24 FPS; SD and HD video are both shot at 30 FPS.

The "i" in 1080i stands for interlaced, which means each of the 30 video FRAMES that make up one second of motion video -- (actually, there are 29.97 fps in video due to drop-frame timecode, but that's a whole other movie) -- is split into 2 fields, comprised of one field made up of the ODD numbered scan lines, and one made of jus the EVEN numbered lines. Both fields combined together comprise one full frame of interlaced video, hence the term.

There's no actual frame rate of 60 fps, but sometimes you'll see or hear the term "60i," which is in fact interchangeable with "30 fps." So the correlation between the terms is because 60Hz means the video image is redrawn onto the screen 60 times per second. When the screen also happens to be displaying something shot on video as opposed to film, this is a perfect fit, as you get one full redraw of the image per field of video, i.e. each and every field has a space reserved just for itself, and each gets equal time alloted to it by the display.

As for 3:2 pulldown, let me put that more in laymen's terms.... 24 does not evenly divide into 60, so in order to ensure no frames "fall through the cracks," some frames have to be given extra time on the display for the math to even itself out, so the 3:2 pulldown algorithm was created to calculate which frames to display more of in order to comply with the 60Hz refresh rate.

The "p" in 24p or 1080p stands for "progressive" scan. There are no "fields" in this format of shooting, and while film is never interlaced, much video still is, although video can now also be shot in progressive format, i.e. each frame is comprised of all scan lines, both odd and even.

By displaying video at 48Hz, 24p film frames divide perfectly into each redrawing of the image, so no pulldown algorithm is necessary.
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