** Official Pioneer 5020FD/6020FD Display Settings Thread** - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 472 Old 02-26-2009, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scanner4X4 View Post

I am a new member of the AVS Forum and have had my Pioneer 5020FD a couple of weeks now and have about 95 hours on the break-in DVD using D-Nices settings from the Official Pioneer 9G Non-Elite KURO Owners Discussion Thread (page 1):
AV Selection: Sport
Contrast: 50
Brightness: 0
Color: +20

I just recently started reading this thread (Official Pioneer 5020FD/6020FD Display Settings Thread) and the first post by The_Hun quotes D-Nices break-in as:
AV Selection: Standard
Contrast: 50
Brightness -2
Color: +15

Which one should I have been using? I have been using the first set of setting for 95 hours now and am wondering if I have been using the wrong break-in settings.
I hope I am posting this correctly (Using the Post Quick Reply) at bottom of page.
I have a bad feeling that this is not the way to post, well nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Really good question! I hope someone answers...I'm about 19 hours into my break in process now...but I would think the original post by DNice is the correct way to go. They are, after all, his settings!
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post #362 of 472 Old 02-26-2009, 09:27 AM
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I've found Dnice's break in setting in various threads and it does seem like his original settings for break in were a little different...starting with the standard setting vs the sport setting. The latest edit of any of these that I have been able to find is the one below....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post14384866

It shows to be updated as of 11-28-08. I think we're good with the sport setting verstion. Anyone know differently? Thanks!
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post #363 of 472 Old 02-26-2009, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scanner4X4 View Post

I am a new member of the AVS Forum and have had my Pioneer 5020FD a couple of weeks now and have about 95 hours on the break-in DVD using D-Nices settings from the Official Pioneer 9G Non-Elite KURO Owners Discussion Thread (page 1):
AV Selection: Sport
Contrast: 50
Brightness: 0
Color: +20

I just recently started reading this thread (Official Pioneer 5020FD/6020FD Display Settings Thread) and the first post by The_Hun quotes D-Nices break-in as:
AV Selection: Standard
Contrast: 50
Brightness -2
Color: +15

Which one should I have been using? I have been using the first set of setting for 95 hours now and am wondering if I have been using the wrong break-in settings.
I hope I am posting this correctly (Using the Post Quick Reply) at bottom of page.
I have a bad feeling that this is not the way to post, well nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Someone needs to correct that. That's not correct on the first page of this thread. It's supposed to be on Sport for the break-in using the settings here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1053444 and also shown here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1034208

I don't think any harm will be done, it probably just won't be doing near as much break-in. But I'm surprised that post is still incorrect like that. Someone may have mentioned it in the thread, but I'm not going to read through the whole thing to find out. But the OP needs to go there and edit it.

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post #364 of 472 Old 02-26-2009, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael St. Clair View Post

I don't notice lip sync being off until around 60ms and more. My wife seems to be closer to 100ms. The reason I say "couple of frames" is that I'm being deliberately general, because it it varies from person to person. I'm guesstimating that the difference between the speaker bar and the actual display on the 5080 we tested was no more than 20-30ms, maybe less (per Rock Band 2). I probably should have written it down.

Ok thanks.

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post #365 of 472 Old 02-26-2009, 02:46 PM
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I have a question about a feature on the Kuros. I have set the Auto Volume Control feature to ON. Does this make the commercials not blast? Does it keep the TV show and commercials at the same volume level?

OK, (If so) I wanted to get a receiver with Audyssey Dynamic Volume. If this is the same thing, will a receiver without Audyssey Dynamic Volume hooked-up to a Pioneer with Auto Volume Control, be the same thing?

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post #366 of 472 Old 02-26-2009, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrownTown View Post

I have a question about a feature on the Kuros. I have set the Auto Volume Control feature to ON. Does this make the commercials not blast? Does it keep the TV show and commercials at the same volume level?

OK, (If so) I wanted to get a receiver with Audyssey Dynamic Volume. If this is the same thing, will a receiver without Audyssey Dynamic Volume hooked-up to a Pioneer with Auto Volume Control, be the same thing?

The Pioneer AVC is not so much designed to mute loud noise levels (which it does to a certain (small) degree) as much as it boosts voices to make dialog more clear. If you are planning to output from the rcvr to the TV, it shouldn't make a huge difference, except possibly (more) muted background background sounds. However, I can't vouch for how it might work from the TV to rcvr.
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post #367 of 472 Old 02-27-2009, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rweber66 View Post

The Pioneer AVC is not so much designed to mute loud noise levels (which it does to a certain (small) degree) as much as it boosts voices to make dialog more clear. If you are planning to output from the rcvr to the TV, it shouldn't make a huge difference, except possibly (more) muted background background sounds. However, I can't vouch for how it might work from the TV to rcvr.

haha, you've just explained exactly what it does....your hearing the effect of the AVC.....a signal processor cant hear voices, and then say, ok lets boost these, hehe

the avc takes signal extremities and levels them out, so soft noises become slightly boosted and loud become limited/capped keeping the overall amplitude consistent.

Quote:


OK, (If so) I wanted to get a receiver with Audyssey Dynamic Volume. If this is the same thing, will a receiver without Audyssey Dynamic Volume hooked-up to a Pioneer with Auto Volume Control, be the same thing?

Yes this is exactly what that Audyssey Dynamic Volume does, but i'm sure the algorithm is more advanced than pioneers, but who knows, you'd have to be the judge on that and decide on what sounds better to you.

and no, if you fed the receiver the signal out of the tv, i don't believe that the internal AVC has any affect on the signal it outputs, but i could be wrong, you'd have to test. GL


hehe, tv's hearing voices
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post #368 of 472 Old 02-27-2009, 12:15 PM
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I've read on this forum that only the grayscale can be calibrated on the xx20 NE Pioneers. I understand that would help bring the set's color closer to standards. I'm about to take del'y on a 5020FD that I bought at the local BB. They are telling me that they can do a "full calibration" including color in the SM on this set. Based on what I've read on the forum this isn't possible unless there are other calibration tools or software available as of late that do make this possible. Can anyone comment on this?

Also, I'm not afraid to do a grayscale calibration myself with ControlCAL and utilize D-Nice's suggested settings but I'm uncertain as to what all is needed beyond being able to communicate with the set with ControlCAL. I'd be grateful if someone could advise me. I've seen this info requested in the forum but I've not been able to find an answer.

Thanks to all in advance.
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post #369 of 472 Old 02-27-2009, 12:54 PM
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i think some people on here would know if BB was able to adjust the color on the 5020 *cough* dnice *cough* turbe *ahem*

but yes, getting the gray scale calibrated would help a lot, but i dont know if BB is capable of it
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post #370 of 472 Old 02-27-2009, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hi-def hearing View Post

I've read on this forum that only the grayscale can be calibrated on the xx20 NE Pioneers. I understand that would help bring the set's color closer to standards. I'm about to take del'y on a 5020FD that I bought at the local BB. They are telling me that they can do a "full calibration" including color in the SM on this set. Based on what I've read on the forum this isn't possible unless there are other calibration tools or software available as of late that do make this possible. Can anyone comment on this?

Also, I'm not afraid to do a grayscale calibration myself with ControlCAL and utilize D-Nice's suggested settings but I'm uncertain as to what all is needed beyond being able to communicate with the set with ControlCAL. I'd be grateful if someone could advise me. I've seen this info requested in the forum but I've not been able to find an answer.

Thanks to all in advance.

Best Buy can calibrate the set using service remote supplied by Pioneer. It's been said however that they may only calibrate the Standard Mode rather than the Movie Mode although one Best Buy Calibrator has posted that they are also able to calibrate movie mode.

Calibration of the grayscale along with adjustment of user controls on an HDTV has always been considered a "full calibration" and charged for as thus. Some TV's have additiional controls that can be tweaked but that is gravy and in many cases still won't be calibrated as accurately as the Kuro NE can with just grayscale and user controls.

It's not about how many controls there are in calibration as much as it is how accurate the display can become in relation to standards.

You also have a bonus in that grayscale calibration happens to also make the color much more accurate on this set so it is indeed a "full calibration". I would recommend using a calibrator from this forum if possible.

Although BestBuy could do it and you might get a good one I wouldn't be that confident that the average bestbuy calibrator would have as much experience with this display model as many of the skilled calibrators on this forum.

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post #371 of 472 Old 02-27-2009, 11:28 PM
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Is a service remote all that's needed to get into the SM of a 9G NE?

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post #372 of 472 Old 02-28-2009, 04:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint S. View Post

Is a service remote all that's needed to get into the SM of a 9G NE?

That would be handy, wouldn't it?
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post #373 of 472 Old 02-28-2009, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by hhaller View Post

That would be handy, wouldn't it?

Indeed. So, I take it from your reply that's all that's needed. ?

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post #374 of 472 Old 02-28-2009, 07:50 AM
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I have been using D-Nice after break-in movie settings and skin tones are "Bullseye"

Whatever TV D-nice get's next, I will sure to get also.

Proud owner of a Pioneer E-Lite 50" with ISF-Day/Night enabled!!
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post #375 of 472 Old 02-28-2009, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Clint S. View Post

Indeed. So, I take it from your reply that's all that's needed. ?

Unfortunately I have no clue. But if it was really that easy to use the service remote to calibrate, I don't know why the more knowledgeable people on this forum wouldn't have just used that.

I really think ControlCAL is the only way for a "proper" calibration. You might want to discuss this with turbe though.
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post #376 of 472 Old 02-28-2009, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hhaller View Post

Unfortunately I have no clue. But if it was really that easy to use the service remote to calibrate, I don't know why the more knowledgeable people on this forum wouldn't have just used that.

I really think ControlCAL is the only way for a "proper" calibration. You might want to discuss this with turbe though.

Firstly you can't get the service remote unless you get it from Pioneer and they don't give it to the public or consumers.

Secondly according to calibrators ControlCal enables more capability than the Service Remote primarily in that it can save the calibration settings to Movie Mode and not just standard mode.

So why chase down a service remote from Pioneer that's not even available to the public when ControCal can do the same thing and more for a very low cost?

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post #377 of 472 Old 02-28-2009, 10:01 AM
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Not sure if this is the right place for this but has anyone been able to control a Denon 789 reciever thru hdmi control with the Kuro remote? I'm only able to control the volume of the receiver but nothing else. Any help would be appreciated.
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post #378 of 472 Old 03-01-2009, 01:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlsim View Post

Firstly you can't get the service remote unless you get it from Pioneer and they don't give it to the public or consumers.

Actually one place seems to have it.


Quote:
Secondly according to calibrators ControlCal enables more capability than the Service Remote primarily in that it can save the calibration settings to Movie Mode and not just standard mode.

So why chase down a service remote from Pioneer that's not even available to the public when ControCal can do the same thing and more for a very low cost?

I agree with those points, but you have to remember that having a remote that gives you access to the SM is loads more convenient than having to hookup a PC to the TV, even if with fewer adjustments with the remote than that of CC. Like many, I don't have a laptop, I don't use a HTPC, my PC is in my SOHO and my TV 50'+ away, and will end up being about 30' feet away from my PC. So every time I wanted to change something, I'd have to move the TV (not an option), move the PC (not an option), or find a 30'+ cable to use. The latter is the only viable option, if a ~30' cable even exists. Then I'd have to set up a remote camera to see the TV during adjustments.

So a SM remote is great convenience in situations such as that, even with its possible limitations it's still better than nothing and having to whip out the cable and remote camera every time.

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post #379 of 472 Old 03-01-2009, 07:29 PM
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it would be pretty handy if someone got a hold of one of these remotes and sent over the custom command for those of us who have Harmony's
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post #380 of 472 Old 03-01-2009, 08:06 PM
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Does the remote access the exact same R/G/B drive/cut memory addresses as ControlCal? If I set the RGB drives in ControlCal to 507, 500, 549 (as an example), does the service remote show the exact same values?
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post #381 of 472 Old 03-01-2009, 09:47 PM
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Only ControlCAL has the ability to set the gains/cuts for Movie. Even with the code, you couldn't make adjustments and set them for Movie.

There is a reason why large dealer/calibrators (and a few Independent Pros) that have the IR code/SR use ControlCAL for calibration on these Models..

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post #382 of 472 Old 03-01-2009, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

Only ControlCAL has the ability to set the gains/cuts for Movie. Even with the code, you couldn't make adjustments and set them for Movie.

There is a reason why large dealer/calibrators (and a few Independent Pros) that have the IR code/SR use ControlCAL for calibration on these Models..

Is it that ControlCal allows you to change the same base values as the remote, but while previewing Movie to see the results that the changes have on Movie, or that ControlCal is changing a completely different set of values than the remote changes?

If the latter is the case, couldn't the remote be used to create a completely alternate greyscale for Standard that doesn't affect Movie? i.e. provide the ability to have two adjusted greyscales on a non-Elite?
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post #383 of 472 Old 03-01-2009, 11:02 PM
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Several Commands (including polling the display's state at specific times) are used with ControlCAL's scripting ability, Commands that are not available via IR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael St. Clair View Post

couldn't the remote be used to create a completely alternate greyscale for Standard that doesn't affect Movie? i.e. provide the ability to have two adjusted greyscales on a non-Elite?

Unfortunately not, if it had been possible (and I can assure you that a lot of time was spent investigating), you would see Professionals and owners jumping all over that...

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post #384 of 472 Old 03-02-2009, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

Several Commands (including polling the display's state at specific times) are used with ControlCAL's scripting ability, Commands that are not available via IR.

Turbe, clearly finding the SAVE command that worked for Movie Mode was a huge coup for ControlCal and Non-Elite owners. Many of us are getting the benefit of a feature Pioneer unfortunately had no intention of sharing with owners of the Standard model Kuros. Congrats.

I'm curious how much if any progress was made on figuring out if SAVE commands (for saving changes outside the service menu) might still be available for the many other features locked in the 9G Non-Elite Service Menu?

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Quote:


Quote:
Originally Posted by DOMAIN64
Right, I understand that but he said he "knows now" why they locked it. There must be something interesting lurking in there that he didnt originally realize. Paul

  • RGB Gamma
  • Color point modification (RGB only)
  • Colorspace selection
  • A/V modes ISF Day/Night/Auto, Pure, User
  • Color temps High, Mid-High, Mid, Mid-Low, Low
  • Brightness limitation

are all listed in the SM. The trick is getting them to stay active after you exit the SM. JimP is correct as you can REALLY screw things up in the SM....especially this one.


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post #385 of 472 Old 03-02-2009, 06:07 AM
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Quote:


Unfortunately not, if it had been possible (and I can assure you that a lot of time was spent investigating), you would see Professionals and owners jumping all over that...

In terms of finding the serial port commands for saving are you mainly limited by not having enough willing non-elite testers as well as limits on your own time?

Given that testing could potentially mess up a $3k-$4k+ display it's not hard to see why it may be a problem.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post14219592
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Quote:


Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032
Great news about the SM access D-Nice! Now if only DRE and color temp were adjustable in there for preset modes .

Color temp changes are available in the SM thru RS232C commands. There are a LOT of things available thru RS232C commands (I now know why Pioneer locked out the SM ). The problem is having the changes stick after you exit the SM. The RGB changes are only valid for Standard mode.....so far.

More testing is needed. Will report back later.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint S. View Post

Actually one place seems to have it.

Do share. So who did you find selling the Remote (an IR remote with secret code I assume)?

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post #386 of 472 Old 03-02-2009, 06:44 AM
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Some nice 5020 pics posted in the 9G pics thread with corresponding settings:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post15914037

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pineapple Devil View Post

got my 5020fd last week. here are some pictures


something on tv @ 1080i


blu-ray @1080p

dark knight @ 1080p


wall-e ps3 trailer @ 1080i

Your pics with settings point out a few aspects of a couple of the Non-Movie Mode selections.

Quote:


for watching tv (the first picture)
standard
41
+5
+3
0
+5
purecinema: smooth or off depending on the signal

for ps3 (the rest)
game
43
+2
+7
0
+3
purecinema: advance

Standard has high contrast edges and dark black levels but you also seem to be removing a lot of black crush by bumping your brightness up just a little.

Game mode reveals detail very well with whatever is going on with it's built-in gamma along with the fact it turns off most of the video processing almost like a PURE mode.

You also push your contrast settings to the limit so you're probably getting a pretty bright image as well, esp. in Standard mode which is already quite bright.

If you are not doing anything to sharpen up the pics and compensate for camera softening then I would guess the real display images in person look even better than the pics display. Nice work.

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post #387 of 472 Old 03-02-2009, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlsim View Post

Do share. So who did you find selling the Remote (an IR remote with secret code I assume)?

I'll gladly do that as soon as I hear back from the company. They may only have one left. I bet they're out of them, and just like every other site selling things they don't have.

No, it's the actual service remote that tech's use for the 5020/6020.

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post #388 of 472 Old 03-04-2009, 11:18 AM
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I'd like to compile some reference posts (from info in other posts) on the Pure Cinema settings to add to this thread since there is so much discussion on it. I'm not big on watching for judder (and don't want to be) so I'll rely on other's obeservations who perhaps are. I'll start with Smooth since it's largely written off by many.

From this post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

who cares really?
Smooth mode is the worse mode on the kuros IMO. ITs only meant for those that like interpolation.

You would be much better off using standard or advanced mode instead of smooth.

I think pepster is confused or something. Noone uses smooth mode.

Its kinda like saying that opimum mode has issues, noone really cares because everyone uses Pure mode or ISF.

I use smooth now and then ( I just like variety ). It actually can work well for most a movie, not nearly as obvious or 'fake looking' as 120hz LCD's I've seen.

The problem with smooth I've seen and other's apparently as well is that when it does show an artifact it's sometimes a pretty obvious and whacked looking effect. I'm not even judder sensitive so it's pretty bad when I notice the motion artifact.

Quote:
Smooth mode has motion processing applied and new frames are interpolated to fill in "gaps" between frames to make motion look smoother. Smooth can produce motion artifacts that are not in the movie, but on the whole it fixes about 10 problems for every 1 it introduces. Smooth mode operates at 60Hz. You get very SLIGHTLY smoother motion all the time... big problems you see in the movie with no processing are better but not necessarily completely gone.

The "new" motion problems Smooth causes annoys a lot of people and they stop using it. I don't like it either, but when Smooth is undetectable for 2 hours, fixes 4 or 5 minutes of jerky motion during the 2 hours and causes 1 jerky artifact that lasts for 3 seconds during those 2 hours... it seems like it does more good than harm. It's not perfect, but it is interesting.


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post #389 of 472 Old 03-10-2009, 02:35 PM
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I plan on calibrating my 5020FD using ControlCAL with my laptop. I want to make adjustments to the grayscale as might be needed and also balance the RGB. Isn't some kind of metering device or grayscale and color standards/templates required as well?
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post #390 of 472 Old 03-10-2009, 03:19 PM
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Speaking to one of the engineers at Pioneer, he shed light on a couple things. As I have mentioned before, this particular engineer maintained that the only difference between the NE and the Elites is the main processor board, and that is all.

He also said that the hardware for the NE was designed to purge almost everything and re-read default settings on startup and that these "default settings" settings were hard coded.

My guess is that there are very few settings that are stored in a manner that allow them to be saved in any way. It is very possible that all of these have already been discovered by the CC guys and the rest may simply be written in stone.

However, I would like very much to see some calibrations of Standard and Game mode explored and shared for people like myself that prefer these modes to movie. I hate movie mode and would greatly appreciate a cookie cutter template for people that have LCD tendencies. LOL

We should not be shackled to having no choices due to a handful of (appreciated) people that have a strict policy of accuracy over preference.

31 flavors would have gone under a while ago if they only served an accurate vanilla. Maybe a crazy dark chocolate that doesn't conform to ice cream standards still tastes good to some. ;-)

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