The Official Pioneer 9G Kuro Settings/Issues Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 10822 Old 08-12-2008, 03:17 PM
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I'm sorry for a newbie question.. what's the difference between D55 and D75?
what are D55 and D75?

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Pioneer 111FD/151FD Reference Settings (ONLY use these settings after the 150 hour break-in period!!!!!!!!!)

***Updated 8/1/08***

Picture:
AV Selection: Pure
Contrast: 37
Brightness: 0
Color: +2
Tint: 0
Sharpness: -15


Pro Adjust

Pure Cinema
Film Mode: Advance
Text Optimization: Off

Intelligence: Off


Picture Detail:
DRE Picture: Off
Black Level: Off
ACL: Off
Enhancer Mode: 1
Gamma: 2


Color Detail:
Color Temp: Manual
R High +1
G High 0
B High +4
R Low -2
G Low 0
B Low 0

CTI: Off

Color Management
R -2
Y +1
G -4
C -2
B 0
M -1

Color Space: 2


Noise Reduction:

3DNR: Off
Field NR: Off
Block NR: Off
Mosquito NR: Off

Screen Size: Full
Power Save Mode: Off
Orbiter: Mode 2



Pioneer 111FD/151FD D55 Settings (ONLY use these settings after the 150 hour break-in period!!!!!!!!!)

***Updated 8/1/08***

Picture:
AV Selection: Movie
Contrast: 37
Brightness: 0
Color: +3
Tint: G1
Sharpness: -15


Pro Adjust

Pure Cinema
Film Mode: Advance
Text Optimization: Off

Intelligence: Off


Picture Detail:
DRE Picture: Off
Black Level: Off
ACL: Off
Enhancer Mode: 2
Gamma: 2


Color Detail:
Color Temp: Manual
R High +5
G High 0
B High -6
R Low -3
G Low 0
B Low -1

CTI: Off

Color Management
R -2
Y +1
G -4
C -2
B 0
M -1

Color Space: 2


Noise Reduction:

3DNR: Off
Field NR: Off
Block NR: Off
Mosquito NR: Off

Screen Size: Full
Power Save Mode: Off
Orbiter: Mode 2


Pioneer 111FD/151FD D75 Settings (ONLY use these settings after the 150 hour break-in period!!!!!!!!!)

Picture:
AV Selection: Sports
Contrast: 26
Brightness: +1
Color: +4
Tint: 0
Sharpness: -15


Pro Adjust

Pure Cinema
Film Mode: Off
Text Optimization: Off

Intelligence: Off


Picture Detail:
DRE Picture: Off
Black Level: Off
ACL: Off
Enhancer Mode: 2
Gamma: 1


Color Detail:
Color Temp: Manual
R High -3
G High 0
B High +14
R Low -4
G Low 0
B Low -1

CTI: Off

Color Management
R -1
Y +2
G -3
C -4
B 0
M +1

Color Space: 2


Noise Reduction:

3DNR: Off
Field NR: Off
Block NR: Off
Mosquito NR: Off

Screen Size: Full
Power Save Mode: Off
Orbiter: Mode 2

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post #272 of 10822 Old 08-12-2008, 03:50 PM
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these refer to white points. 5500k, 6500k and 7500k approx. 6500k is said to be ideal and neutral. 5500k is warmer, while 7500k is cooler as it refers to the white balance.
d55 is preferred by some for black and white, while d75 is preferred by some for sports, or for more pop.

note: the post above is my opinion. as such, when reading any recommendations from me, please do you research and seek out other recommendations and make up your own mind on your next course of action. i mean, most reasonable adults should know that, but it seems this should be stated anyways.
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post #273 of 10822 Old 08-12-2008, 04:07 PM
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Ok Guy's,

What AV mode and settings is everyone using for playing PS3 games on their 111FD's?Looking for the best PQ not necessarily worried about Lag as I don't online game.
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post #274 of 10822 Old 08-12-2008, 04:19 PM
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I ran the break-in DVD as much as my wife would let me, also had normal viewing content thrown into the mix (I didn't count it towards my break-in hours, though)

Do what you need to. If you can get it all done all at once, more power to ya! I couldn't, partially because of my wife and partially because I was too anxious.

"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx
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post #275 of 10822 Old 08-12-2008, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I think we are speaking on different topics. I'm discussing grayscale and you seem to be on color saturation of which the term "push" has nothing to do with. "Push" is a color decoder error that is non-existent on the 9G Elites. Out of the box green on the Elites in Pure mode are not accurate. They are very slightly oversaturated. However, this can be fixed using the CMS controls.


I found the best way to remove it is drop G LOW. I also notice all the rgb lows are set to high. Which is why when you turn the brightness up only a notch or two the brightness jumps up so high. And how color can interfere with the blacks.
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post #276 of 10822 Old 08-12-2008, 06:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues View Post

I found the best way to remove it is drop G LOW.

Green is the foundation of luminance. One should only touch the Green High/Low controls as a last resort. I haven't found a reason why you would have to touch those controls on the 9Gs.

Quote:
I also notice all the rgb lows are set to high. Which is why when you turn the brightness up only a notch or two the brightness jumps up so high. And how color can interfere with the blacks.

What are you talking about???? RGB Lows set to high??????


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post #277 of 10822 Old 08-12-2008, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Green is the foundation of luminance. One should only touch the Green High/Low controls as a last resort. I haven't found a reason why you would have to touch those controls on the 9Gs.

For green the only true green control is the low. Cms won't take the green push away imo.

Quote:
What are you talking about???? RGB Lows set to high??????

Using 0 as a reference they are all boosted to high imo. Drop them all to -5 say and compare, not much different than all 0, plus you can better black level control. Just my opinions from messing around with it.
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post #278 of 10822 Old 08-12-2008, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Interesting. I've come across 4 151s and all have a blue push in Pure mode (color temp set to manual).......just like the 111 I have. They all are identical to your report here:

That unit was also green when set to Pure mode and Manual color temp. The initial condition of that set was something like neutral color temp.

W. Jeff Meier


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post #279 of 10822 Old 08-12-2008, 07:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues View Post

For green the only true green control is the low.

No where near correct. Green High affects the entire grayscale range from 0-100IRE. Green Low deals only with the low end (roughly 50 and below).

Quote:
Cms won't take the green push away imo.

Pioneer's CMS won't (doesn't have a green push anyway). RGB controls definitely won't. As I said before, the term "push" is a color decoder problem. RGB controls have nothing to do with the color decoder.


Quote:
Using 0 as a reference they are all boosted to high imo. Drop them all to -5 say and compare, not much different than all 0, plus you can better black level control. Just my opinions from messing around with it.

Dropping the Low controls to -5 is doing nothing more than crippling gamma. You are doing the equivalent of turning the brightness all the way down. It may look "blacker", but by no means is it anywhere near accurate.


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post #280 of 10822 Old 08-12-2008, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

No where near correct. Green High affects the entire grayscale range from 0-100IRE. Green Low deals only with the low end (roughly 50 and below).

Forgot about green high. I'll try that and compare but green low seemed to get rid of the green push i see. We are only talking a few clicks.


Quote:
Dropping the Low controls to -5 is doing nothing more than crippling gamma. You are doing the equivalent of turning the brightness all the way down. It may look "blacker", but by no means is it anywhere near accurate.


Makes sense, but not trying to get it blacker, but more dynamic range with the blacks. Turning brightness up only a couple nothches results in poor blacks, droping the lows gives it better range and shadow detail. Actually you would be raising the blacks only slightly for better shadow detail. I have not noticed a drop in brightness. But i will compare. Thanks.
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post #281 of 10822 Old 08-12-2008, 07:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues View Post

Makes sense, but not trying to get it blacker, but more dynamic range with the blacks.

If this is your ultimate goal, just use optimum mode.

Quote:
droping the lows gives it better range and shadow detail.

No it doesn't. Get some calibration gear to really see what you are doing.


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post #282 of 10822 Old 08-12-2008, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

If this is your ultimate goal, just use optimum mode.

lol.. I'm convinced on pure.

Quote:
No it doesn't. Get some calibration gear to really see what you are doing.

I know it affects brightness control. The way it is now i can adjust it much past +2 with better shadow detail and still deep blacks. Another reason is some space movies i see color getting in the way with the blacks. Droping the lows seem to get rid of all that. Yes i agree calibration equipment would be fun to play with.
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post #283 of 10822 Old 08-12-2008, 09:02 PM
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I have a question that dissapeared during the weekend. It's a question for D-Nice or some other knowledgeable guy, and it's a theoretic question about the break-in procedure.

1. How come the recommended break-in settings have changed over time? Do you have several sets which you break in with different settings, then after X hours compare the results and how accurate they are when putting in reference settings?

Several people have in this thread asked something like "oh, I used your old break-in recommendations have I know screwed something up". The answer is always No, no worries.

But how do you then get to the point where you change the recommended break-in settings with roughly AV Standard and color +15 to AV Sport and color +20 for example? Is the latter better? Something have made you change the recommendations, right?

I guess why alot of people ask is because alot of people follow the recommendations and then the recommendations change, of course you start to wonder if you could have (in theory at least) a better display by using the newer recommendations from the start.


2. Second question, following a break-in procedure is there any theoretic chance it could be bad for a display? I don't mean putting in the "extreme settings" and then leave a static picture on ruining it yourself but I mean if you follow it and it works as it should, any more chances of stuck pixels or something like that compared to normal viewing (with faster moving pictures and pixels)?
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post #284 of 10822 Old 08-12-2008, 10:08 PM
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Are the break-in files supposed to contain 20 images (5 grayscale, 5 red, 5 green and 5 blue)? How is that supposed to go for 45 mins at 30 seconds apiece?

Thanks!
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post #285 of 10822 Old 08-13-2008, 03:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corpfan1 View Post

Are the break-in files supposed to contain 20 images (5 grayscale, 5 red, 5 green and 5 blue)? How is that supposed to go for 45 mins at 30 seconds apiece?

Thanks!

If you are using the break-in files on disk, the disk is configured to repeat endlessly.

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post #286 of 10822 Old 08-13-2008, 05:30 AM
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OK, I am FREAKING OUT a bit. Ran the thumbdrive last night before going to bed but apparently it didn't "repeat all". When I got up this morning it is on the menu screen to select pictures. Have I done damage? Eveything looks ok-I resarted the thumbdrive and made sure it was repeating this time. There doesn't appear to be any image retention from that menu screen. Am I OK?
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post #287 of 10822 Old 08-13-2008, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovin hd View Post

OK, I am FREAKING OUT a bit. Ran the thumbdrive last night before going to bed but apparently it didn't "repeat all". When I got up this morning it is on the menu screen to select pictures. Have I done damage? Eveything looks ok-I resarted the thumbdrive and made sure it was repeating this time. There doesn't appear to be any image retention from that menu screen. Am I OK?

Welcome to the club. I have talked to others who have ignored my advice and risked damaging their display with this silliness.

W. Jeff Meier


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post #288 of 10822 Old 08-13-2008, 05:47 AM
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Well, unfortunately I haven't had the pleasure of your advice before. The question remains, am I ok?
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post #289 of 10822 Old 08-13-2008, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovin hd View Post

Well, unfortunately I haven't had the pleasure of your advice before. The question remains, am I ok?

It is difficult to be aware of all that is discussed here. I would contact D-Nice for help with this since he is a resident expert on this technique.

W. Jeff Meier


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post #290 of 10822 Old 08-13-2008, 06:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

Welcome to the club. I have talked to others who have ignored my advice and risked damaging their display with this silliness.

Silliness? Don't start anything you cannot backup with factual data umr.


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post #291 of 10822 Old 08-13-2008, 06:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovin hd View Post

OK, I am FREAKING OUT a bit. Ran the thumbdrive last night before going to bed but apparently it didn't "repeat all". When I got up this morning it is on the menu screen to select pictures. Have I done damage? Eveything looks ok-I resarted the thumbdrive and made sure it was repeating this time. There doesn't appear to be any image retention from that menu screen. Am I OK?

You cannot damage you panel with a few hours of a menu static image....better yet, your Kuro has a safty feature that automatically dims the screen when the Home Media Gallery menu has been up too long (which kicks in after 5 minutes of inactivivty).

If you want to continue with the break-in please, please make sure you setup your slideshow correctly.


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post #292 of 10822 Old 08-13-2008, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Silliness? Don't start anything you cannot backup with factual data umr.

Your lack of knowledge is showing. A lack of effect cannot be proved only the presence of one. The proof of which is in your camp not mine.

W. Jeff Meier


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post #293 of 10822 Old 08-13-2008, 06:40 AM
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Thanks D-Nice. I figured since there was no obvious image retention then I was ok but still I was a little worried. Not sure what happened. I thought I selected repeat all but apparently not. I have restarted the slide show an dit has been running for about 2.5 hrs and seems to be finen now. I have notice one other thing but don't believe it is a big deal. Between each slide the screen goes black for about 6-7 seconds. I assume this is just part of it loading the next image and is no big deal.

By the way, umr why so down on breakin?
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post #294 of 10822 Old 08-13-2008, 06:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pheur View Post

I have a question that dissapeared during the weekend. It's a question for D-Nice or some other knowledgeable guy, and it's a theoretic question about the break-in procedure.

1. How come the recommended break-in settings have changed over time? Do you have several sets which you break in with different settings, then after X hours compare the results and how accurate they are when putting in reference settings?

Which model are you speaking of?


Quote:


Several people have in this thread asked something like "oh, I used your old break-in recommendations have I know screwed something up". The answer is always No, no worries.

But how do you then get to the point where you change the recommended break-in settings with roughly AV Standard and color +15 to AV Sport and color +20 for example? Is the latter better? Something have made you change the recommendations, right?

The A/V mode use is completely irrelevant. What matters is the contrast and color setting. I increased them to get the maximum effect. The difference in the color is only 5%.

Quote:


I guess why alot of people ask is because a lot of people follow the recommendations and then the recommendations change, of course you start to wonder if you could have (in theory at least) a better display by using the newer recommendations from the start.

The difference is negligible.


Quote:


2. Second question, following a break-in procedure is there any theoretic chance it could be bad for a display? I don't mean putting in the "extreme settings" and then leave a static picture on ruining it yourself but I mean if you follow it and it works as it should, any more chances of stuck pixels or something like that compared to normal viewing (with faster moving pictures and pixels)?

If your panel fails during or right after the break-in period, it panel should not have left the factory. The break-in settings are no harsher than using Dynamic mode.


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post #295 of 10822 Old 08-13-2008, 06:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

Your lack of knowledge is showing. A lack of effect cannot be proved only the presence of one. The proof of which is in your camp not mine.

umr, this whole break-in procedure came from my contact at Pioneer....who knows a HELL of a lot more about these panels (and PDPs in general) than you ever will.

It's ok that you do not personally recommend it, agree with it, whatever. But again, calling it silly is pushing it well beyond extreme.


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post #296 of 10822 Old 08-13-2008, 06:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovin hd View Post

By the way, umr why so down on breakin?

I can think of many reasons.....


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post #297 of 10822 Old 08-13-2008, 07:05 AM
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D-Nice-once I complete the "breakin" do I need to do a calibration specifically for my unit or are there reference settings that are pretty universal? I would want the setting for 65K range so I get the most natural/balanced look.
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post #298 of 10822 Old 08-13-2008, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovin hd View Post

...By the way, umr why so down on breakin?

I work on hundreds of displays a year some of which use this process others of which have not. I see no positive effect from it. While I do get reports of problems with it. If there is no obvious benefit and possible negatives. It seems silly to me to do it.

W. Jeff Meier


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post #299 of 10822 Old 08-13-2008, 07:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovin hd View Post

D-Nice-once I complete the "breakin" do I need to do a calibration specifically for my unit or are there reference settings that are pretty universal? I would want the setting for 65K range so I get the most natural/balanced look.

My settings are designed to get you much closer to D65 compared to the preset options. They are not designed to be a substitute for a full calibration of which would get 100% out of your panel (calibrator dependent).
However, because you are following the recommended procedure, my settings will provide 95% of what a seasoned and competent ISF calibrator can achieve.


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post #300 of 10822 Old 08-13-2008, 07:20 AM
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Hey D-Nice any rough guess as to when you think you will be releasing the SM calibration info on the 5020/6020's? thanks agian
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