The Official Pioneer 9G Kuro Settings/Issues Thread - Page 298 - AVS Forum
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post #8911 of 10820 Old 01-29-2010, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by esp2684 View Post

I have an Aug. 2008 build 111FD as well. I've also noticed this when I power on the Kuro for the first time of the day. It happens almost every time, and it's very, very quick to disappear only staying on my screen for 0.5 seconds or so. Initially, I was worried that something was wrong, but there have been no adverse effects over the last 15 months that I've owned the panel. I'm guessing it's a delay in power getting to all the cells of the panel.

The ink-like effect you see when powering on is completely normal.

It's just the circuitry kicking in.
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post #8912 of 10820 Old 01-30-2010, 01:19 PM
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I called pioneer about these tiny silver markings that showed up in the upper right corner of my 151. one looks like a scratch and the other 4 looks like dots.

What i was told was something got through the glass and to the crystal immersive layer. Thats what the silver markings are. The thing is i dont remember scratching or touching the glass in a way that could do any damage. I do use a microfiber cloth to clean the dust of the glass and the bezel, but i dont rub or wipe the glass, i just brush the cloth against it.

The silver markings are very tiny though. But now im worried more might show up out of nowhere.

Anybody see this on their TV?

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post #8913 of 10820 Old 01-30-2010, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by saprano View Post

I called pioneer about these tiny silver markings that showed up in the upper right corner of my 151. one looks like a scratch and the other 4 looks like dots.

What i was told was something got through the glass and to the crystal immersive layer. Thats what the silver markings are. The thing is i dont remember scratching or touching the glass in a way that could do any damage. I do use a microfiber cloth to clean the dust of the glass and the bezel, but i dont rub or wipe the glass, i just brush the cloth against it.

The silver markings are very tiny though. But now im worried more might show up out of nowhere.

Anybody see this on their TV?

I've never seen or heard of it. When they said something "got through the glass," did they mean through the surface coating? Nothing "gets through glass" unless it's cracked, so I don't understand what they might mean. Are they offering any sort of resolution, warranty-wise?
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post #8914 of 10820 Old 01-30-2010, 06:13 PM
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Yes i ment through the coating, sorry. He said there's nothing they can do to get rid of it. I forgot the explanation he gave me on why. But if more of these things show up they better do something. Can't they just replace the glass? according to the guy i spoke to they cant.

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post #8915 of 10820 Old 01-30-2010, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by saprano View Post

Yes i ment through coating, sorry. He said there's nothing they can do to get rid of it. I forgot the explanation he gave me on why. But if more of these things show up they better do something. Can't they just replace the glass? according to the guy i spoke to they cant.

The glass is an integral part of the whole PDP, which is the most expensive part of the TV. It seems the guy is correct that you can't fix it and you can't replace just the surface glass, but if the coating is disintegrating, that does sound like a failure that ought to be covered under warranty.

You don't remember anything about the explanation as to why it would fail?
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post #8916 of 10820 Old 01-30-2010, 11:13 PM
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Just got my 101fd today! It works like a dream.

With silly-sally's settings isf night looks great. That will be my default viewing setting.

isf day has much more "pop" than pure but maintains the same color. I would recommend everyone to unlock these settings

I ended up enabling and tweaking these with the free kuroreader.
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post #8917 of 10820 Old 01-30-2010, 11:38 PM
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He said it happens when something digs through the coating. He didn't say anything about it failing, just that something touched the glass and got to the CIL. But as i said, i never knocked anything againts the TV to cause that. And the tiny silver circles doesn't look like it was caused by something hitting the TV, it looks like it appeard on it's own.

Is it even possible for the AR to disintergrate? Im gonna call again and see what someone else says about this.

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post #8918 of 10820 Old 01-31-2010, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post


Is it even possible for the AR to disintergrate?

I would say it is possible, if there were perhaps a few very small air bubble trapped in the coating when it was applied, and that they broke open when you cleaned. But I don't know if I would call that a form of the AR coating disintegrating, as much as I would call it a manufacturing flaw in how the coating was applied. And maybe even also a QC failure, in how it would also be able pass final inspection if there were small air bubbles trapped in the AR coating. And if that's what it is, it's flat out a manufacturing defect, and Pioneer pretty much owes you a new replacement panel under warranty.
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post #8919 of 10820 Old 01-31-2010, 12:39 AM
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After viewing more content I've decided that sillysally's settings were too green. color low-medium looks a bit better for my tv. I do love the isf modes though. I just found you that you can have all the controls that kuroreader has right in your web brower. I can change settings from my mac and enable isf modes.
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post #8920 of 10820 Old 01-31-2010, 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by donsantos View Post

I just found you that you can have all the controls that kuroreader has right in your web brower. I can change settings from my mac and enable isf modes.

Not exactly. If you're interested in using ISFccc modes you should either
1) Get a meter and ControlCAL or
2) Get your display calibrated.
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post #8921 of 10820 Old 01-31-2010, 01:38 AM
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or

3) go with minimal tweaked isf modes through the web interface or kuroreader which look better than pure out of the box.
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post #8922 of 10820 Old 01-31-2010, 01:47 AM
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Could someone explain what KuroReader is?
Thanks.
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post #8923 of 10820 Old 01-31-2010, 02:09 AM
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Originally Posted by rumba View Post

Could someone explain what KuroReader is?
Thanks.

It's a freeware interface for use with the IP-addressable Kuros. (The TVs are not, so it's not relevant to the 151 and 111.)
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post #8924 of 10820 Old 01-31-2010, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

I would say it is possible, if there were perhaps a few very small air bubble trapped in the coating when it was applied, and that they broke open when you cleaned. But I don't know if I would call that a form of the AR coating disintegrating, as much as I would call it a manufacturing flaw in how the coating was applied. And maybe even also a QC failure, in how it would also be able pass final inspection if there were small air bubbles trapped in the AR coating. And if that's what it is, it's flat out a manufacturing defect, and Pioneer pretty much owes you a new replacement panel under warranty.

If more of these silver marks show up im definitely getting a new panel. Right now its just a few on the right end side of the TV. I think i counted ten of them. some are so small you really have to focus to see it, but its there.

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but how exactly would i get a new TV if pioneer doesn't have anymore left? last i checked the kuros are all gone.

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post #8925 of 10820 Old 01-31-2010, 11:45 AM
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You would get a refurbished unit.

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post #8926 of 10820 Old 01-31-2010, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

If more of these silver marks show up im definitely getting a new panel. Right now its just a few on the right end side of the TV. I think i counted ten of them. some are so small you really have to focus to see it, but its there.

Is this something you could capture in a photo? I'm curious to see what these things look like...now you have me kind of paranoid about them! Do you notice them while you're actually watching stuff., i.e., do they refract the light differently or anything that draws attention to them? That would be a big problem for me.....
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post #8927 of 10820 Old 01-31-2010, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but how exactly would i get a new TV if pioneer doesn't have anymore left?

If you have a component defect Pioneer can replace the component from their spares inventory. It's not inconceivable that they they have entire displays in spares but who knows.
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post #8928 of 10820 Old 01-31-2010, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donsantos View Post

Just got my 101fd today! It works like a dream.

With silly-sally's settings isf night looks great. That will be my default viewing setting.

isf day has much more "pop" than pure but maintains the same color. I would recommend everyone to unlock these settings

I ended up enabling and tweaking these with the free kuroreader.

Mine's coming Thursday!

Can you link me to silly sally and unlocking?

Do we have to do 150 hours since our Sigs are pre-broke in?

thx

bob
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post #8929 of 10820 Old 01-31-2010, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by spongebob View Post

Mine's coming Thursday!

Can you link me to silly sally and unlocking?

Do we have to do 150 hours since our Sigs are pre-broke in?

thx

bob

Congrats on your new toy! I'm sure you'll be thrilled with it.

The 150hr break-in is not related at all to any break-in the panel receives at the factory. Rather, it is a process (performed by the owner) for preparing certain panels so that you can use D-Nice's settings to optimal effect. If you intend to use other settings or if D-Nice never calibrated your model and posted his settings, the 150hr break-in procedure doesn't apply.
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post #8930 of 10820 Old 01-31-2010, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Congrats on your new toy! I'm sure you'll be thrilled with it.

The 150hr break-in is not related at all to any break-in the panel receives at the factory. Rather, it is a process (performed by the owner) for preparing certain panels so that you can use D-Nice's settings to optimal effect. If you intend to use other settings or if D-Nice never calibrated your model and posted his settings, the 150hr break-in procedure doesn't apply.

Thanks, but I thought there were no D-Nice settings for the Sigs??

Or am I thinking the M's or both?

Or just confused?

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post #8931 of 10820 Old 01-31-2010, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by spongebob View Post

Thanks, but I thought there were no D-Nice settings for the Sigs??

Or am I thinking the M's or both?

Or just confused?


I don't think he ever posted settings for the 101FD. Other people have, though, and there's no reason you can't try them on your panel. Browse around the User Posted Settings section on the Calibration Forum and you'll be sure to find something. Remember you can always, easily reset any AV mode back to its defaults, so there's no reason you can't sit and play with the settings on your own either.....you can't hurt anything.
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post #8932 of 10820 Old 02-01-2010, 09:48 AM
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I'm planning on entering D-Nice's offset setttings tonight for my 5020FD. I'm sure this question has been asked, and answered several times, but this thread is so huge I couldn't find the answer with the search. I'm currently using the non-service menu settings, and they have the Pure Cinema set to Advance. Why does his service menu settings have it set to Standard? I want to be 100% certain I'm getting the full benefit of the 72hz on a 24hz movie. Thanks.

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post #8933 of 10820 Old 02-01-2010, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smeg36 View Post

I'm planning on entering D-Nice's offset setttings tonight for my 5020FD. I'm sure this question has been asked, and answered several times, but this thread is so huge I couldn't find the answer with the search. I'm currently using the non-service menu settings, and they have the Pure Cinema set to Advance. Why does his service menu settings have it set to Standard? I want to be 100% certain I'm getting the full benefit of the 72hz on a 24hz movie. Thanks.

Maybe he just prefers STANDARD. For 1080p/24 film material, it will still engage the 72Hz refresh rate using STANDARD. That's a setting that you can just adjust to your own preferences.
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post #8934 of 10820 Old 02-01-2010, 09:56 AM
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Now I'm more confused than ever. I've read so many conflicting reports on the 72hz. Some say it has to be set to Advance for 72hz. In the ControlCal forum on calibrating the 5020FD there are quotes from D-Nice that says it'll use 72hz with it set to Off or Advance, but not Standard or Smooth. Then I've read a few posts that say setting Standard will display 72Hz.

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post #8935 of 10820 Old 02-01-2010, 10:03 AM
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spongebob.

I tried sillysally's settings on my 101fd and they shifted the whites to be too green. I also tried d-nices 500m's post break-in settings and they shifted to even more green. I didn't do the proper break-in procedures and I am using settings of a totally different set so I can expect that. I really prefer how low-medium looks on my set. btw the set was manufactured in march 09. You can enable isf-day and isf-night with minimal controls through any web browser if your kuro is hooked up to your network.

Isf-day and Isf-night without control cal is very much sufficient for my viewing pleasure. I don't have a light meter so I'm not sure how worthwhile control cal is. I get the extra light output and the colors still look like pure. Whites are white. Darks are super dark.

After watching the Imax scenes from the dark knight. I'm truly amazed with what this set can do.
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post #8936 of 10820 Old 02-01-2010, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donsantos View Post

spongebob.

I tried sillysally's settings and they shifted the whites to be too green. I also tried d-nices settings and they shifted to even more green. I really prefer how low-medium looks on my set. btw the set was manufactured in march 09. You can enable isf-day and isf-night with minimal controls through any web browser if your kuro is hooked up to your network.

Just enabling the ISF modes (with minimal controls) is obviously not sufficient. You really ought to consider using ControlCAL so that you can fully adjust those modes and use them properly.

With D-Nice's settings, in particular, you really should emphasize that you are not using his settings at all to his specifications before publicly declaring them "too green." For starters, identify which of his settings you are using on your 101FD (considering that he hasn't posted any ISF settings for that model, AFAIK). And clarify whether you followed all his specifications and input every setting to a "T" before evaluating the results. He is known to put a lot of work into his calibrations, and I believe his instructions are so specific regarding panel applicability and break-in, etc., precisely to avoid scenarios where someone uses them completely against specification and then publicly declares them, for example, "too green."
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post #8937 of 10820 Old 02-01-2010, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smeg36 View Post

Now I'm more confused than ever. I've read so many conflicting reports on the 72hz. Some say it has to be set to Advance for 72hz. In the ControlCal forum on calibrating the 5020FD there are quotes from D-Nice that says it'll use 72hz with it set to Off or Advance, but not Standard or Smooth. Then I've read a few posts that say setting Standard will display 72Hz.

I know. I've also read the assertions that the non-Elites use the PC Film Modes differently....that STANDARD on the Elites, for example, is equivalent to OFF on the non-Elites. Frankly, that makes no sense to me at all, as I can't see why Pioneer would implement them that way, but then I've never owned a non-Elite and I don't follow those threads very closely. And the only tests that I've seen (where refresh rates were actually measured, not assumed, for each mode with all the various kinds of input signals) were performed on Elite panels. So, with raised eyebrows and a quizzical look on my face, I defer to others' opinions on the non-Elites.

I'll emphasize again, though, that this particular setting should be selected based on personal preference, not an assumption that there's a "right" way to use it. I suggest that you try the different modes with both 1080p/24 signals from blu-rays, and perhaps more importantly, with a variety of DVD signals (making sure they've not been already processed to 1080p/24 in your source player). Different people have different sensitivities to the visual effects of the processing involved, and you should just use whatever looks best to you.
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post #8938 of 10820 Old 02-01-2010, 12:45 PM
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I love using PC standard on my elite. It makes everything so smooth, which is the point. Its really only noticeable when something is moving or on camera pans. it gives off a hint of the LCD soap opera effect. Which i actually hate but PC standard looks nothing near as bad and video like.

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post #8939 of 10820 Old 02-01-2010, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Is this something you could capture in a photo? I'm curious to see what these things look like...now you have me kind of paranoid about them! Do you notice them while you're actually watching stuff., i.e., do they refract the light differently or anything that draws attention to them? That would be a big problem for me.....

I really only notice them when light is somewhat shining on the TV. They're shiny from the reflected light. but seeing how i watch my kuro in a dim environment, i dont think i will notice them in normal viewing conditions.

I haven't watched anything since, i'll check it out. My guess is there will be no picture where the silver marks are. Luckily their to small to notice. I dont have a camera to take pictures but i'll see if i can get one.

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post #8940 of 10820 Old 02-01-2010, 05:53 PM
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I'm looking to put together enough people to get D-Nice into my area. If anyone from the area that would include Cincinnati, Lexington, Louisville, Eastern Indianapolis, Dayton, Columbus, or areas in between, and you are interested in hiring D-Nice to calibrate your set, PM me.
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