The Official Pioneer 9G Kuro Settings/Issues Thread - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 10793 Old 09-04-2008, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pab1219 View Post

my set is may built with kuro sticker with green plus,so d-nice neither for d-75 or d-55? do i use out the box for these setting? if i use your new setting will it harm my set? i really only saw the green plus on the matrix on sd by cablevision.

There are settings or HEPM owners on the first page.

Also, why would you use The Matrix as a reference point as it has an intentional green "cast" throught the entire film???
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post #902 of 10793 Old 09-04-2008, 12:55 PM
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Just to clarify, and I am sure it is posted and I just can't find it - the USB thumb images are the same thing that as Evangelo2's Break-in DVD right? One is not better / different than the other....?

Trying to get ahead of the game as I think I have settled on the 111FD.
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post #903 of 10793 Old 09-04-2008, 12:55 PM
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I was wondering the same thing. I would think that something like Planet Earth (or another naturalistic documentary) would be good material to use to see if there's any hint of extra green-ness.
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post #904 of 10793 Old 09-04-2008, 12:57 PM
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newbie to posting please answer i follow what you advise THANK YOU!!!
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post #905 of 10793 Old 09-04-2008, 01:03 PM
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d-nice i didn't use the matrix as a reference point,it was on while i was trying to do my breakin setting and i thought boy do they look green.
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post #906 of 10793 Old 09-04-2008, 01:08 PM
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Maybe someone can take the time to give a nice description of the following with some hints/tips as to what adjustments made to each will yield...

I honestly can't grasp the "true" meaning to these even though I have done some reading on the net - I can't really find an excellent explanation and how it relates to what we actually see on the screen of the Kuro. And of course the manual is horrible at describing how they affect the picture, etc...

Thanks in advance!


TINT

FILM MODE

INTELLIGENCE

DRE PICTURE

BLACK LEVEL

ACL

ENHANCER MODE

GAMMA

COLOR TEMP

CITI

COLOR SPACE

3DNR

FIELD NR

BLOCK NR

MOSQUITO NR
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post #907 of 10793 Old 09-04-2008, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Also, why would you use The Matrix as a reference point as it has an intentional green "cast" throught the entire film???

Actually, there are three color segments in Matrix used to highlight particular themes within the film's plot: green, red, and blue (in whatever order of appearance; can't remember which color segment comes first 'cuz haven't viewed in quite awhile). Thus Matrix is the wrong movie to select as a judging tool to determine absolute colors of human skin tones, etc.

Is a good looking sci-fi movie as the film Director intended it to be seen alright, but it isn't a "reference" transfer (SD or HD) to be used as a tool to judge quality of overall colimetry for this reason alone...

-THTS
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post #908 of 10793 Old 09-04-2008, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank J Manrique View Post

Actually, there are three color segments in Matrix used to highlight particular themes within the film's plot: green, red, and blue (in whatever order of appearance; can't remember which color segment comes first 'cuz haven't viewed in quite awhile). Thus Matrix is the wrong movie to select as a judging tool to determine absolute colors of human skin tones, etc.

Is a good looking sci-fi movie as the film Director intended it to be seen alright, but it isn't a "reference" transfer (SD or HD) to be used as a tool to judge quality of overall colimetry for this reason alone...

-THTS

I watched it on HD DVD last night. I only remember seeing Green (inside of the Matrix) and Blue (in the "real world") casts. Do you remember the parts that have the red cast?
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post #909 of 10793 Old 09-04-2008, 02:57 PM
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Newbie question for D-Nice or others,

I finished my break-in on my 151 (no content watched before or during break-in) and used your D65 settings (though i have to input your september update).

If i wanted to use your D75 settings for watching sports, do i need to do this on another input on the TV or can i use the same input?

What i am driving at is, if i program the D75 settings in the same input i am using for D65, will i lose the D65 settings and have to do it again each time.

Sorry for being so long-winded.

J.
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post #910 of 10793 Old 09-04-2008, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cos16 View Post

Newbie question for D-Nice or others,

I finished my break-in on my 151 (no content watched before or during break-in) and used your D65 settings (though i have to input your september update).

If i wanted to use your D75 settings for watching sports, do i need to do this on another input on the TV or can i use the same input?

What i am driving at is, if i program the D75 settings in the same input i am using for D65, will i lose the D65 settings and have to do it again each time.

Sorry for being so long-winded.

J.

The A/V modes I provide settings for are global...meaning they span across all inputs.
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post #911 of 10793 Old 09-04-2008, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I watched it on HD DVD last night. I only remember seeing Green (inside of the Matrix) and Blue (in the "real world") casts. Do you remember the parts that have the red cast?


Can't really remember since I haven't seen it in a long, long time...but believe is towards the end of the movie...or somewheres midway the movie or within the train station's scene.

Now am really curious about this, so will dig the DVD up (have no HD version) and check it out...

-THTS
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post #912 of 10793 Old 09-04-2008, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank J Manrique View Post

Can't really remember since I haven't seen it in a long, long time...but believe is towards the end of the movie...or somewheres midway the movie or within the train station's scene.

Now am really curious about this, so will dig the DVD up (have no HD version) and check it out...

I would love to see the BD version of The Matrix trilogy. Until I got a PS3 and a 60 inch Pioneer Kuro I hadn't realized what i had missed seeing in the cable HD versions of movies on my old 50 inch DLP. I had noticed the green scenes in The Matrix, particularly at the train platform, but was completely unaware of the predominately red and blue segments.
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post #913 of 10793 Old 09-04-2008, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ikeb View Post

it just takes patience - i've only started this calibrating thing in the last year. Once you get the hang of it, it's pretty striaght forward. U need 3 things - an i1-pro, hcfr, and the isfccc software. Its like any software - there is a short learning curve.

takes a few hours to do an input. even if you screw it up - you can just start over and you probably will not hurt your tv.

if you change settings in the isfccc - it has no effect on the regular user modes - you can do it!!!!

most of the stuff i learned was from the avs display calibration forum.

I am trying to get started in calibration and need some clarification. I understand that I need ControlCAL as an interface to be used with Calman software.

I also plan on purchasing the i1-pro. If I am using a computer with a USB port, I believe I will need a Keyspan High Speed Serial USB Adapter as well.

Is any additional hardware needed? Also, what is hcfr?

I am a newbie at this, but very interested in the process. I have a 151 that also has the green plus issue, and wish to find a way to fix the problem on my own if possible.

Thanks.
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post #914 of 10793 Old 09-04-2008, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corpfan1 View Post

Maybe someone can take the time to give a nice description of the following with some hints/tips as to what adjustments made to each will yield...

I honestly can't grasp the "true" meaning to these even though I have done some reading on the net - I can't really find an excellent explanation and how it relates to what we actually see on the screen of the Kuro. And of course the manual is horrible at describing how they affect the picture, etc...

Thanks in advance!


TINT-Shifts color points to more reddish/greenish. Don't believe it affects grayscale

FILM MODE-What you should use for movies with 1080p/24HZ that puts in 3:3 pulldown

INTELLIGENCE-I'm not positive, but I believe it automatically changes brightness... Does it have mode 1 and 2. If so, than what I said should be right.

DRE PICTURE-This adds more "pop" and edge enhancement to the picture. It also (based on a reliable source) increases shadow detail when set to low.

BLACK LEVEL-This makes the black level appear deeper. It also crushes blacks. Don't use it.

ACL-Automatic Contrast limiter?? I don't know what it is or does, but I wouldn't use it.

ENHANCER MODE-This improves the sharpness (crispness) of the signal. 3 is really blurry, while 1 is sharp.

GAMMA-Gamma is the transient From light to dark. If the gamma is too low at low IREs, blacks will be crushed. If it is too high, the picture will be washed out. Gamma setting 2 is the best. The reference gamma is 2.22 (maybe just 2.2), but many people prefer 2.5 because it provides more depth.

COLOR TEMP-This is how shades of grade look from 10-100 IRE. The CT standard is 6500K, equivalent to midday sun. Many people, however, prefer higher color temperatures because they are brighter and punchier (but are blueish)

CITI-CTI-Contrast transient improvement. Not sure what it is, but I assume it "improves" the grayscale. I would leave it off.

COLOR SPACE-Two options, CS1 or CS2. CS2 conforms better to REC 709 (the color standard for HD broadcasts), but many prefer CS1 for the more vivid colors.

3DNR-

FIELD NR-

BLOCK NR-

MOSQUITO NR-
All Noise reduction features. Turn all of them off unless you have a really noisy picture (they remove detail) on a certain broadcast (SD, for example).

Hope that helps.

What is dead can never die. Long live my 151!
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post #915 of 10793 Old 09-04-2008, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newenglander View Post

I am trying to get started in calibration and need some clarification. I understand that I need ControlCAL as an interface to be used with Calman software.

I also plan on purchasing the i1-pro. If I am using a computer with a USB port, I believe I will need a Keyspan High Speed Serial USB Adapter as well.

Is any additional hardware needed? Also, what is hcfr?

I am a newbie at this, but very interested in the process. I have a 151 that also has the green plus issue, and wish to find a way to fix the problem on my own if possible.

Thanks.

Thats all you really need. Green push should be solved by adding the numbers on the red and blue highs/lows. You just find a way to get to D65 with your equipment. You should be fine.

What is dead can never die. Long live my 151!
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post #916 of 10793 Old 09-04-2008, 07:55 PM
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For D-nice: Bode well. An omen, or sign, does not necessarily bode well for the future, not "bold well". Oh, and usage is usually in reference to an omen, or portent of things to come, not in reference to something that is immediately apparent (for example, the lack of RGB controls in the service menu on the 6020, or visible artifacts when displaying 1300 compressed lines of resolution from a cable box on a good 1080-line display).

Other than that, I really enjoyed your reviews of the Pioneer(s), and thanks for the effort putting this stuff together.
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post #917 of 10793 Old 09-04-2008, 08:43 PM
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Just got a new 6020 from Dan at Plasma Concepts and begun break-in via usb drive. How long should each slide stay on the screen for? 10 sec or more like 30 sec
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post #918 of 10793 Old 09-04-2008, 09:25 PM
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what i don't like about usb images is when switching from one picture to the other the internal processor needs to take like 1~5 secs to load the next image so you lose like 5 secs of break in time between each image...just a note it's not that big of a deal though
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post #919 of 10793 Old 09-05-2008, 03:32 AM
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I think the USB support and the usability (user interface) of the sat reciever on the euro 5090H's is terrible.

PQ is fantastic.

After having trouble with my colorimeters i finnaly got my eye-one pro from spectracal. Attached the results. Images are from HCFR as i am still groping with calman.

what is great is the accuracy of primarys and secondaries without touching the cms!

My settings:
movie mode

all enhancers off
gamma =2

kontrast=39
bright=0
Saturation=+3
color 2
cms all =0
r-h = -3
g-h= 0
b-h= +3
r-l = -1
g-l = 0
b-l = -1
LL
LL
LL
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post #920 of 10793 Old 09-05-2008, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

111FDs do not have a plus green problem. It's only the 60" models.

If you do not like the new settings, use the old ones or just place your color temp on Low.

D Nice

Do all the 151's have the plus green problem or is it variable like the buzz problem. The reason I ask is I have a 151 that had a bad buzzing problem at first, but it has actually gotten better the longer I have been using it. But it does have the plus green issue.

The monitor is scheduled to be replaced next week (took a month for Tweeters to get a new shipment in) and I am not sure if I should take the chance on getting a monitor that may have a buzzing issue that is worse.

Also, with the use of ControlCal and utilizing the ISFccc Display Profilles, can the plus green problem be eliminated better than with just adjusting the color temp manually? I have not had any luck eliminating the problem with adjusting the color temp.

Also, can you tell me the difference between the Auto Display and the Day/Night Display as I am getting closer into taking the dive into calibration.

Thanks for all of your help.
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post #921 of 10793 Old 09-05-2008, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newenglander View Post

D Nice
can the plus green problem be eliminated better than with just adjusting the color temp manually?

yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Can you guys please stop calling it "push"? Red, Green, Blue "push" is a color decoder error. That is NOT what is going on the with 60" 9Gs. They are "plus" Green in grayscale....meaning the Green channel is set much higher than the other channels. Normally a panel would be plus Red (8G Kuros) or plus Blue (7G Pioneer's) out of the box. Some of the 60" 9Gs are plus Green. All three types of "plus channels" can be corrected through calibration.


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Calibrator List - Pioneer ISFccc Interface

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Designed by Calibrators for Calibrators™

No need to fumble through the Display's Menu with its Remote Control™

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post #922 of 10793 Old 09-05-2008, 08:34 AM
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For those interested, I am linking to my post in the 8G Kuro settings thread in case any here might like to try these settings with your 9G in an attempt to get close to a point that may be of help to you in achieving the perfect settings. Then again they may be of no significance for you.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...ostcount=11419

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My DVD Collection


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post #923 of 10793 Old 09-05-2008, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newenglander View Post

I am trying to get started in calibration ...

I am a newbie at this, but very interested in the process. I have a 151 that also has the green plus issue, and wish to find a way to fix the problem on my own if possible.

Did you try D-Nice's settings in post # 4 specifically for TVs with the HEPM in the serial number and the green plus problem?
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post #924 of 10793 Old 09-05-2008, 12:04 PM
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HCFR (free) is a program like Calman - personally i prefer it over calman

besides the keyspan adapter - u need a straight through serial cable (female/female).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newenglander View Post

I am trying to get started in calibration and need some clarification. I understand that I need ControlCAL as an interface to be used with Calman software.

I also plan on purchasing the i1-pro. If I am using a computer with a USB port, I believe I will need a Keyspan High Speed Serial USB Adapter as well.

Is any additional hardware needed? Also, what is hcfr?

I am a newbie at this, but very interested in the process. I have a 151 that also has the green plus issue, and wish to find a way to fix the problem on my own if possible.

Thanks.

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post #925 of 10793 Old 09-05-2008, 12:08 PM
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the problem with d-nice's post for this is not that it doesn't work, but that because he has limited access to a 151, he can not post settings for the other modes. I really don't like Pure for TV or DVD, but, for Blu-Ray it is pretty good.

The isf modes are really good - but you have to do a lot of A-B (i.e Pure to ISF-Auto) to see the differences - biggest problem with isf modes are if you want to make a quick change - there is "no such thing" as a quick change. I'm leaving my laptop in the family room until i get the isf modes the way i want (Probably another week).

one interesting thing about the isf modes - they work for blu-ray and dtv - this surprised me because in some user modes, blu ray would look good but dtv would not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by highheater View Post

Did you try D-Nice's settings in post # 4 specifically for TVs with the HEPM in the serial number and the green plus problem?

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post #926 of 10793 Old 09-05-2008, 12:16 PM
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d-nice

to answer your question from an earlier post
workflow i used:

1) set black level
2) set contrast
3) do grey scale
4) do color
5) do cms

repeat 1 through 3

my final setting for isf d65 are: rgb high/low: 4,0,7,-1,0,-1; color +1; contrast +32; brightness -1 (came out to 39.4 ftl and 10% grey is exactly 6.5% of 100% white); sharpness -13; tint 0; yellow +1; magenta -1 ; cs2
my final setting for isf d75 are: rgb high/low: 1,0,14,-1,0,-1; color+2; tint-2; sharpness -10; ccontrast +32; brightness -1;cs1
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post #927 of 10793 Old 09-05-2008, 01:20 PM
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ControlCal instructions for the 9G non-elite models have been posted

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/show...ted=1#post1603

Thanks D-Nice!
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post #928 of 10793 Old 09-05-2008, 03:36 PM
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are the elite the only models affected with the green plus/push? with those certain serial numbers? or do the 5020 also get affected because i just purchase 5020 ....

also break in and non break settings are the same? i wanted to watch a tv show TSCC and was wondering if its the same with break in disc or diffrent if watch tv content?

D-nice, Anyone ?

Pioneer Elite PRO-111
Samsung 60PnF5300 af
panasonic px75u

XBL x117x831
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post #929 of 10793 Old 09-05-2008, 04:20 PM
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looks like all the 151s and some 111 and some 6020s and some 5020s

its ok - its easy to fix in the elites - harder in the non-eletes

break in setting is the same for all models

but do not use the break in settings while watching a show.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gus738 View Post

are the elite the only models affected with the green plus/push? with those certain serial numbers? or do the 5020 also get affected because i just purchase 5020 ....

also break in and non break settings are the same? i wanted to watch a tv show TSCC and was wondering if its the same with break in disc or diffrent if watch tv content?

D-nice, Anyone ?

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post #930 of 10793 Old 09-05-2008, 09:48 PM
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ikeb, is your set green plus?
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