The Official Pioneer 9G Kuro Settings/Issues Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 10820 Old 07-29-2008, 04:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattg3 View Post

Pardon my ignorance but what is the thumbdrive?

I always thought it was just a USB Memory Stick with the Burn-In files on it. No?....
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post #92 of 10820 Old 07-29-2008, 05:18 AM
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Would there be any point in trying these reference settings on euro 9g models (I have PDP-LX5090)? We don't have the "Pure"-mode over here, but maybe it's quite close to our "User"?

Thanks!
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post #93 of 10820 Old 07-29-2008, 05:24 AM
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no offense guys, but this is stupid. I was under the impression that this is a settings thread. now it just seems to be turning into another general 9G thread....
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post #94 of 10820 Old 07-29-2008, 06:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

Are you saying that if I use the "out of the box" settings you suggested and do not use the break in DVD, that the "out of the box" settings will not be good after 150 hours of use due to "major shifts in greyscale during the first 150 hours of use"?

Thanks.

Pretty much.
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post #95 of 10820 Old 07-29-2008, 06:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johannesk-fin View Post

Would there be any point in trying these reference settings on euro 9g models (I have PDP-LX5090)? We don't have the "Pure"-mode over here, but maybe it's quite close to our "User"?

Thanks!

Nope. None of my settings will work properly with Euro 9G Kuro. Bumtious as settings for Euro Kuros on avforums.com.
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post #96 of 10820 Old 07-29-2008, 06:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

D-Nice,
I have noticed that when I output 480i from my Toshiba A-30 HD-DVD player, A new screen size named "Cinema" appears.
It seems to fit the screen better but looks like it may be stretching ever so slightly but it may just be my eyes.
Can you elaborate on what this screen size is used for and is there any stretching going on?
When outputting 1080i/p the "Cinema" screensize is not availible.

I have been using Full for 480i but I am wondering if this "Cinema" screensize may be a better alternative for DVD movies at 480i.

Thanks,
Chad

Cinema has always been on Pioneer plasmas. It's best used for stretching 480i/p 4:3 pictures.
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post #97 of 10820 Old 07-29-2008, 06:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gus738 View Post

D-nice i didnt explain my post well so let me try again. While your not a gamer i would just like a feedback in regards to the a/v game mode and under it you can put game mode on or off

what does this do in effect to PQ or processing? And if it doesnt do anything bad then why not have this faster process default?

Turning Game Pref to "On" shuts of any and all processing that may cause game lag. This should produce very good PQ for games.

Quote:


if so how does pure mode change to game mode?

Pure mode is best for film and video content. I've never conducted PQ tests with games


Quote:


Also off topic D-nice but what you recommend for me to use to calibrate my 42" and 50" TH-xxpx75u? my dad has no expereince and i have very little and i thought maybe something like DVE HD basic? the blu ray edition since my dad has a sony BDP-300

DVE HD should be fine.
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post #98 of 10820 Old 07-29-2008, 07:20 AM
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Hi D-Nice;

Great job on the new thread. How close do you think that us non-elite owners

XX20's can come to D65, D55, D75 on our displays?
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post #99 of 10820 Old 07-29-2008, 07:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coursey View Post

Hi D-Nice;

Great job on the new thread. How close do you think that us non-elite owners

XX20's can come to D65, D55, D75 on our displays?

On the non-Elites, you can only choose one target white point. However, you will be able to achieve an identical grayscale compared to the Elite.
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post #100 of 10820 Old 07-29-2008, 07:22 AM
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D, your new settings look amazing on my set so a big thank you first off for your hard work there as well as starting this thread! The question I have for you now is, and I know your not hot on this A/V mode but will you have any settings for "performance" mode which I happen to like for daytime viewing in particular or any daytime viewing settings for that matter like you did for the 8g Elites?

Aside from changing contrast, color, and turning brightness up to +1, I basically duplicated your reference settings on pure mode on to performance mode this morning in my sun light filled living room and I thought they looked almost identical when I would hit the tool button to compare the 2 with the exception of perfromance mode obviously having more pop which I welcomed in my daytime enviorment. I know some reccomend optimum mode for daytime viewing but I personally cant stand how blue it looks. At least with using your reference settings on Performace I get that warmer look I perfer.

All this said my next question to you is if its even possible to get Perfromance mode close to D65?
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post #101 of 10820 Old 07-29-2008, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Hun View Post

no offense guys, but this is stupid. I was under the impression that this is a settings thread. now it just seems to be turning into another general 9G thread....

geez get over it, all of them turn into general threads. people need info so they ask a general question. just like i'm making a general observation......

HD HD HD I Need more HD, Yes I am a HD Addict :)
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post #102 of 10820 Old 07-29-2008, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luvnhateSony View Post

D, your new settings look amazing on my set so a big thank you first off for your hard work there as well as starting this thread! The question I have for you now is, and I know your not hot on this A/V mode but will you have any settings for "performance" mode which I happen to like for daytime viewing in particular or any daytime viewing settings for that matter like you did for the 8g Elites?

Aside from changing contrast, color, and turning brightness up to +1, I basically duplicated your reference settings on pure mode on to performance mode this morning in my sun light filled living room and I thought they looked almost identical when I would hit the tool button to compare the 2 with the exception of perfromance mode obviously having more pop which I welcomed in my daytime enviorment. I know some reccomend optimum mode for daytime viewing but I personally cant stand how blue it looks. At least with using your reference settings on Performace I get that warmer look I perfer.

All this said my next question to you is if its even possible to get Perfromance mode close to D65?

I'll see what I can do
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post #103 of 10820 Old 07-29-2008, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I'll see what I can do

You the man
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post #104 of 10820 Old 07-29-2008, 07:58 AM
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Anyone?



Quote:
Originally Posted by bigb1975 View Post

I'm an idiot. Or I was just confused. Or probably more accurate, I'm a confused idiot.

At any rate, I guess didn't understand the concept of "starter settings" when D-Nice posted them in the 9G Owners Discussion Thread awhile back and confused them for break-in settings. So I set my 151 to his starter settings and ran Evangelos break in DVD for about 120 hours so far (Admittedly I have also watched a few hours of HDTV during that time as well, maybe around 5 hours).

Now I see this thread with the D-Nice's break-in settings and I realize my mistake.

What do I do now?

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post #105 of 10820 Old 07-29-2008, 08:12 AM
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mr2828, you're misunderstanding what the orbiter does. It physically moves the picture around to ensure that it is not in the same place. Now, what that means is if there is overscan on the bottom portion by 3% then the top will be underscanned by 3% and the same will be true as it is shifting from side to side. It's not changing the size of the picture at all, it's just simply shifting it. Each pixel is getting a single pixel of information, it's just instantly switching which pixel the information is getting sent to.

Again, if there is 5 pixel rows missing from the bottom then there'll be 5 pixels missing on the top. What it does is simply adds black bars to portions to of the screen that don't have any information, so it really isn't noticeable.

Yes, it is STILL not displaying all of the information, which is part of the benefit of dot-by-dot, but it is NOT expanding the information to each pixel so there's no scaling involved. Thus preserving most of the benefit of dot-by-dot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr2828 View Post

See, this doesn't grok with me because if part of the 1920 x 1080 pixels available in a blu-ray (for instance) are shifted off screen by the orbiter mode 2 in dot-by-dot mode, then that automatically means there are no longer enough pixels from that blu-ray left to fill the 1920 x 1080 pixels available on my 9G panel. Therefore, there MUST be some pixel "expansion" (I'd just call it scaling) going on, just like in Full mode. So you've effective lost a good deal of the advantage of dot-by-dot mode, and it really no longer is dot-by-dot, since some of the original dots from the blu-ray are now getting expanded/scaled to fill 2 dots on parts of the 9G panel. The only difference at that point between Full and this dot-by-dot orbiter 2 mode would be that only 2 of the 4 sides of the image are being overscanned instead of all 4. So let's call it "half-Full" mode.


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post #106 of 10820 Old 07-29-2008, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigb1975 View Post

Anyone?

I think that if you ran the Break-In DVD with the Break-In settings now for some hours I think it should be just fine.

Even though you didn't follow the break-in period, the idea behind the break-in sequence is to uniformly wear the pixels. I think that with the settings you used, you simply just didn't wear the pixels as much as if you used the 'Break-In' settings. Which is why I think that if you just ran it a little bit longer, you should be fine.

The whole idea behind D-Nice's reference settings seems to be just that - 'a reference'. By definition a reference is - use or recourse for purposes of information. My enterpretation is it's a starting point. It is to get people's sets close to the ISF standard as possible. Of course, it will vary ever-so-slightly for everyone and their individual situations, but it will still be close.

You can still use his settings and if they look good enough (possibly they will look great to you, anyway) then use them. Tweak the settings to your liking.

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post #107 of 10820 Old 07-29-2008, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Turning Game Pref to "On" shuts of any and all processing that may cause game lag. This should produce very good PQ for games.

I thought you can't use game pref unless you are on the game AV selection? Can we have some Game AV selection settings?

What is dead can never die. Long live my 151!
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post #108 of 10820 Old 07-29-2008, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by coltsfreak18 View Post

I thought you can't use game pref unless you are on the game AV selection?

That's what we were talking about.
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post #109 of 10820 Old 07-29-2008, 08:51 AM
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So can we have game AV mode settings???

What is dead can never die. Long live my 151!
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post #110 of 10820 Old 07-29-2008, 09:02 AM
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Nice job on the new thread D-Nice.

Since you are both the OP and the Unofficial/Official AVS cszar of all things Pioneer Plasma can you clarify the intended use of this thread?

It seems obvious from the title of the thread I know but to clarify, is it your intention to consolidate all information related to settings for both Elite and Non-Elite 9G Kuros and if so then can you link to (1st post of thread) if not merge with the previous Non-Elite settings info thread started by Hun? That could make that the "old" thread so Non-Elite users know where to post going forward.

Quote:


So can we have game AV mode settings???

There are some game mode settings re-posted, orginally from D-nice in the above referenced thread along with some other helpful info related to game usage on the Kuro Non-Elites.

It would be helpful to merge or copy those post to this consolidated thread IMHO, assuming this thread is intended for Elite and Non-Elite users.

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post #111 of 10820 Old 07-29-2008, 09:08 AM
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Thanks for the settings. Will there be any settings for cable boxes or sdtv on pro111? I watch a decent amount of sdtv and was wondering if I should have any of the noise reduction features on for that.
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post #112 of 10820 Old 07-29-2008, 09:09 AM
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Repost from old thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlsim View Post

This thread is definitely useful for these sets. There's actually quite a bit of "tweaking" possible for a set with reduced adjustments.

I'll take the liberty to add the other Non-Movie settings which D-Nice has posted for other 6020 A/V modes as his own reccomendations for starters. It should not deter others from adding their own customized settings however.

Underlying Settings for each of A/V Modes:


A/V Mode ---- DRE --- Black Level --- ACL --- Enhancer --- Gamma --- CTI

Dynamic------ High ------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Performance-- Mid -------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Movie-------- Off -------- On ------- Off ------- 2 ---------- 1 ------ On
Sports------- Mid -------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Game-------- Off -------- Off ------- Off ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Standard----- Mid ------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On

The NR features are on for every A/V mode. Optimum mode changes these settings depending on what the light/color sensor detects.

Also, there is no way in the SM to adjust these features.

Power Save Mode: Off

Standard mode settings

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=6311

Picture:
AV Selection: Standard
Contrast: 31
Brightness: +3
Color: -3 to -7 (you pick)
Tint: R4
Sharpness: -15

Pure Cinema

Film Mode: Advance
Text Optimization: Off



Power Save Mode: Off

************************************************************ *************
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=5496

Game mode has an 8K+ grayscale. Here are some "ok" settings with that mode:

Picture:
AV Selection: Game
Contrast: 30
Brightness: 0
Color: -4
Tint: R4
Sharpness: -15

Pure Cinema

Film Mode: Advance
Text Optimization: Off



Power Save Mode: Off

************************************************************ *************
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...a#post14144788

Picture:
AV Selection: Performance
Contrast: 30
Brightness: +4
Color: -4
Tint: R3
Sharpness: -15

Pure Cinema

Film Mode: Advance
Text Optimization: Off



Power Save Mode: Off


Family DVD Collection
Insider thread last question? R.I.P.
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post #113 of 10820 Old 07-29-2008, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlsim View Post

There are some game mode settings re-posted, orginally from D-nice in the above referenced thread along with some other helpful info related to game usage on the Kuro Non-Elites.

Sadly, I have the 151 , so these don't apply to me . I could use some reference (ish) settings for game AV selection.

What is dead can never die. Long live my 151!
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post #114 of 10820 Old 07-29-2008, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I'm not a gamer, so I would be the last person ask regarding game lag

Hmm, someone send D-Nice a game console for calibration purposes, maybe an Atari 2600 or such fine example

Long & Short from the Kuro on lag appears to be that the Game Mode has a setting for increasing responsiveness in case input lag becomes noticeable.

Not all games or all players are sensitive enough to slight amounts of lag to be an issue at all. Some games and some players are extremely sensitive to even the smallest lag.

Pioneer implies that it may sacrifice some PQ when the game control pref is on so the option is yours. You may not notice any difference in quality with it on anyway but maybe someone can do an A/B check on a few games and report back if so inclined.

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post #115 of 10820 Old 07-29-2008, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlsim View Post

Hmm, someone send D-Nice a game console for calibration purposes, maybe an Atari 2600 or such fine example

Long & Short from the Kuro on lag appears to be that the Game Mode has a setting for increasing responsiveness in case input lag becomes noticeable.

Not all games or all players are sensitive enough to slight amounts of lag to be an issue at all. Some games and some players are extremely sensitive to even the smallest lag.

Pioneer implies that it may sacrifice some PQ when the game control pref is on so the option is yours. You may not notice any difference in quality with it on anyway but maybe someone can do an A/B check on a few games and report back if so inclined.

For rock band though, it may be pretty critical. I'm back away from my replacement 151... It looks AMAZING. Much better than the old one. Only thing wrong is that I think it has streaks (vertical) going down the center of the screen.

What is dead can never die. Long live my 151!
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post #116 of 10820 Old 07-29-2008, 09:38 AM
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First off, thank you DNice for all of your work, research and contributions - I have learned a lot from you and several others on this great forum.

I did the 150 hr. break-in almost perfectly and only watched a few hours of planet earth in between sessions. After adjusting the Pure mode with the Post-Break-in Reference settings for the 151 last night in complete darkness, here are my impressions:

My test material were two movies on HD stations - one an older movie (still color though) on MOJO HD and the other a newer movie with Matthew Mcconaughey on TBS HD (I forget the names because I wasn't really watching the movies!). I thought the image looked a little flat/dull compared to what I was used to. There also seemed to be a subtle, yellowish haze/filter over the image. The image was not displeasing, just different. It reminded me more of the big screen and had a slightly washed, cinematic look to it. Skin tones appeared to be very accurate.

In comparison, optimum mode did not have any yellowish haze/filter and looked much more "clear" to me. The brightness of optimum was hit and miss for me - in some scenes, it made things seem more real and life-like, while other instances made it seem artificially bright. Skin tones with optimum varied as well, but many looked enhanced and fake - like a TV news anchor with too much make-up on (glowing skin). I will be curious to test both of these picture modes with a few blu rays in the near future.

More than anything, I realized how conditioned I was to enjoy a brighter image with more/over-saturated colors even if it wasn't always accurate. On Discovery HDT, I definitely preferred optimum mode because it made all foliage and flowers appear very vibrant and saturated. I came away from this testing thinking that for movies I would probably most enjoy settings that fell between the two (D65 Pure and Optimum). I think Optimum will be great for sports/daytime viewing and I'm anxious to try the D75 settings as well. I'm sure the reference settings will also grow on me as I watch them more.

DNice - is there a way you might suggest I make the Reference settings appear more clearly with less of a filtered look? Should I even bother tweaking the reference settings to begin with or just start fresh with another picture mode/new settings?

Kuro'd
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post #117 of 10820 Old 07-29-2008, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coursey View Post

How close do you think that us non-elite owners

XX20's can come to D65, D55, D75 on our displays?

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

you will be able to achieve an identical grayscale compared to the Elite.



.

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post #118 of 10820 Old 07-29-2008, 09:53 AM
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Focused, the point of D-Nice’s settings is to get it as close to a certain standard as possible. This ISF standard is what moviemakers use as a point of reference and as such an ISF calibration is preferred to truly see the director’s intent when viewing a movie. The “filtered” look you referred to is two things. The D65K grayscale will yield a little bit more of a yellow-reddish look, especially when comparing it to Optimum. I find the Optimum mode to be just the opposite, not so optimum. Grayscale is too cool, colors are overly saturated, sharpness is too high, and black levels tend to be crushed.

The thing with a calibrated image is you need to set it and leave it for a few days to get used to it. It is proven that compared to the out of the box settings, a properly calibrated set will yield a more natural look, better shadow detail, truer colors, more detail and also be easier on the eyes, especially when watching in the dark. Focused, I would say, give it time. True, a properly calibrated image may still not be for you, but I still say give it time to see if you start noticing a difference.

You said it yourself, you have been conditioned to enjoy the brighter, punchier image.

Ultimately, you don’t have to use the settings, just use what looks good to you, since its your TV.

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post #119 of 10820 Old 07-29-2008, 10:00 AM
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If I choose powersave mode 2 to reduce buzzing on my 151, will D's reference color settings change significantly? Also, would there be any point in turning up contrast to make up for the sl decrease in brightness? Although I'm thinking that will just result in clipping.
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post #120 of 10820 Old 07-29-2008, 10:02 AM
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Another question--could someone please explain how the 3 different gamma settings affect the picture? Is one of them supposed to be more correct?
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