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post #3331 of 5275 Old 06-13-2009, 11:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transendance View Post

Thanks for that!And perhaps an unfair question.

My situation is that I require both a stand and center chanel speakers.

When I add the cost of those components to the cost of the 141, here in Canada, Iquickley reach a price above the 151 price and I still don't have all the features that come standard with the 151, Further to that I can go to controlcal and plug in the values of other users andperhaps get a reasonable facsimile of a basic calibration of the 151 while I don't know if controlcal offfers the same possibility with the 141 (are the night day values available from d-nice or SS on the forums?

Any input would be appreciated.

SS has provided many calibration settings, but like D-Nice's they are specific to players. They are really only guidlines or starting points until you get the display calibrated yourself IMO, or have the same player they used to calibrate the display.

The 141 has things the 151 doesnt and visa versa. I went went with the 141 over the 151 because of its network functions, thinner profile and the lack of an on board tuner and amp ( I look at that as being a benefit).

Others may want the internal amp or tuner, and may see value in the stand if they dont plan to hang it on the wall. If I was in that camp I would have probably got the 151. It really comes down to your needs. I also liked the minor details of the Signature series over the 151 i.e. the packaging and collateral it came with.
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post #3332 of 5275 Old 06-13-2009, 11:41 AM
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As I posted before I had a 151 for about 8 months, and now have had a 141 for 4 months, both ISF cal'ed by the same person. (Helping out my son and daughter-in-law was my excuse to make the change.) I see no difference between the sets, both are outstanding. I would be satisfied with either one.
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post #3333 of 5275 Old 06-13-2009, 12:18 PM
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Thank you both for the feedback!
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post #3334 of 5275 Old 06-13-2009, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mak99 View Post

I'll also post some pix of my 141 + gear soon...

Here's my first attempts at pictures of my current setup. One with the room lights on, just showing the general arrangement:



The above pic definitely has a much more yellow/orange look to the walls. I was using a Kodak Z760, white balance @ Daylight setting, ISO 100 setting, aperture priority, not sure if I over/under exposed, tripod. Room lights on, window to right had blinds open.

The next pic is a still shot from Corpse Bride (HD DVD). Under exposed about 2 stops using manual settings and largest aperture (f2.8 IIRC), tripod. The pic is somewhat close to what I'm actually seeing in person, though colors are still a bit off (not to mention the walls now have a greenish tint to them). Room lights for this pic were off, blinds on window closed (though still some light filtering thru).




I guess I have some learning to do w/ my camera to take better, more accurate pictures...

EDIT: Well, the pics were here, now they're not??
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post #3335 of 5275 Old 06-13-2009, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mak99 View Post

Here's my first attempts at pictures of my current setup. One with the room lights on, just showing the general arrangement:



The above pic definitely has a much more yellow/orange look to the walls. I was using a Kodak Z760, white balance @ Daylight setting, ISO 100 setting, aperture priority, not sure if I over/under exposed, tripod. Room lights on, window to right had blinds open.

The next pic is a still shot from Corpse Bride (HD DVD). Under exposed about 2 stops using manual settings and largest aperture (f2.8 IIRC), tripod. The pic is somewhat close to what I'm actually seeing in person, though colors are still a bit off (not to mention the walls now have a greenish tint to them). Room lights for this pic were off, blinds on window closed (though still some light filtering thru).




I guess I have some learning to do w/ my camera to take better, more accurate pictures...

EDIT: Well, the pics were here, now they're not??

I can see the 2 pictures perfectly as attachments. Your setup looks even more beautiful in a clean room.

The second picture seems to show the bias lighting, am I correct or are my eyes playing tricks on me? When you get a spare moment, could you take a picture of how the backlighting is on your panel? Thanks!
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post #3336 of 5275 Old 06-13-2009, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carftopher View Post

I can see the 2 pictures perfectly as attachments. Your setup looks even more beautiful in a clean room.

Thanks! I still haven't reinstalled my extended rear panels on the rack. Next time I pull it away from the wall...

Regarding the disappearing pix, this is just weird! They were both there when I first posted, then they were gone. So I edited my post and reinserted the IMG links and they were both there again. Now I only see the Corpse Bride pic! Is this because I created that specific post, but others see it just fine? I'm thoroughly confused...
Quote:


The second picture seems to show the bias lighting, am I correct or are my eyes playing tricks on me? When you get a spare moment, could you take a picture of how the backlighting is on your panel? Thanks!

Yes, you can barely see the bias light in the CB pic. I'll see if I can take a better shot this evening, after the sun goes down. I haven't adjusted yet, but the light output is about 75-80% above the 141, and the rest below.

As a comparison, the pic below is from my old Hitachi setup w/ the HD rope light. That light was wrapped around the arms of the wall mount, not along the perimeter of the panel. You can see it's quite the yellowish glow. But I will admit it looked kinda cool, giving it that "floating in space" look when the Hitachi was off. But I admit that the new 6500K backlight for the 141 seems much better for improving the PQ perception.



Again, the above pic is my old Hitachi TV, with my older Synergy Twin 20 rack. As you've probably noticed, lots of upgrades for me over the past 6+ months. Seems like I missed some news about a recession or something?

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post #3337 of 5275 Old 06-13-2009, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

(and soon Oppo 83)

You don't have your BD-83 yet.

Your in for a treat.

ss
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post #3338 of 5275 Old 06-13-2009, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

No I am not saying that. It has nothing to do with light output. It has more to do with the fact that they are in effect different displays and therefor need different settings.

Some one else will have to chime in if you need a more technical explanation, but the reality is I wouldnt call one better then the other. The 141 does have the ability to have more refined settings then the 151, but wether that makes any visual difference has not yet been proven to the best of my knowledge. Someone would have to have both displays side by side and do a calibration on both to determine if there was a difference.

No one could look at a calibrated 151, then the next day see a calibrate 141 and determine one was better then the other.

I agree.

The bottom line is you can not use calibratin settings from a 151 on your 141. The increments for adjustments in CMS and High Low temp settings are much different.
What this means is that the increments of adjustment in the 141 vs 151 are much finer with the 141.

btw. It is best not to use a blue filter or blue only mode to set hue and saturation on are 141s.

ss
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post #3339 of 5275 Old 06-13-2009, 05:19 PM
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Mak999.

Nice and clean. And it looks like you can control your room lighting. Very important.

One thing. If your wall that your 141 is on is green, you may want to change the color to a neutral gray or flat white.

ss
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post #3340 of 5275 Old 06-13-2009, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post


btw. It is best not to use a blue filter or blue only mode to set hue and saturation on are 141s.

ss

Why? I thought the blue only mode was a calibrators dreams.
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post #3341 of 5275 Old 06-13-2009, 06:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

You don't have your BD-83 yet.

Your in for a treat.

ss

Sadly the units for Canada came late. I would have ordered form the US had I known it was going to take this long. I am really, really looking forward to the new toy.
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post #3342 of 5275 Old 06-13-2009, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mak99 View Post

Here's my first attempts at pictures of my current setup. One with the room lights on, just showing the general arrangement:



The above pic definitely has a much more yellow/orange look to the walls. I was using a Kodak Z760, white balance @ Daylight setting, ISO 100 setting, aperture priority, not sure if I over/under exposed, tripod. Room lights on, window to right had blinds open.

The next pic is a still shot from Corpse Bride (HD DVD). Under exposed about 2 stops using manual settings and largest aperture (f2.8 IIRC), tripod. The pic is somewhat close to what I'm actually seeing in person, though colors are still a bit off (not to mention the walls now have a greenish tint to them). Room lights for this pic were off, blinds on window closed (though still some light filtering thru).




I guess I have some learning to do w/ my camera to take better, more accurate pictures...

EDIT: Well, the pics were here, now they're not??

Not only are you part of the club of 141 owners, you are part of the even rarer club of people who mount it in their wall and do so with hiding all cables.



Well done.
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post #3343 of 5275 Old 06-13-2009, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

I agree.

The bottom line is you can not use calibratin settings from a 151 on your 141. The increments for adjustments in CMS and High Low temp settings are much different.
What this means is that the increments of adjustment in the 141 vs 151 are much finer with the 141.

btw. It is best not to use a blue filter or blue only mode to set hue and saturation on are 141s.

ss

Can I assume that a calibrated 141 can perform as well as a 151fd?

(Now I am refering to some of the spectacular output levels achieved by d-nice on 151fd series)
( the reason this comes up is the frequent reference to the functional differences between these products - also the notion that the power supply might be smaller in the 141 (I get that from the lower consumption levels).

I get that the settings can be more "refined" because of the control differnces but can the set at least match the 151fd in performance peramters such as black levels and total lumens output?

The "blacks" question comes up because I say a working display not long ago at a local dealer and that unit at least had rather "bright" black bars on 2:35 content. The only thing I can think of there was that perhaps because of the bright room the bars appeared more grey , or that the unit may have been defective, (I tried the various picture modes and I don't think it was the room light sensor).


I told you it was a "Silly Question", bu I am on the "eve" of exchanging my 150fd for either a 141 or 151 and am finding the choice a little difficult. Cost is essentially the same in this case since the 141fd will need a stand and center channel speaker so the $500.00 price advantage hear in Canada disappears!

Thank you in advance....trans
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post #3344 of 5275 Old 06-13-2009, 09:00 PM
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I have a 141 for a while now and it is awesome. (Sim2 Lumis is main theater). I want another similar quality/same size for the bedroom... Any recommendations? Are the 141's still in production?? I'm a bit nervous if Pioneer is not going to be making these anymore...
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post #3345 of 5275 Old 06-13-2009, 09:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Health Nut View Post

I have a 141 for a while now and it is awesome. (Sim2 Lumis is main theater). I want another similar quality/same size for the bedroom... Any recommendations? Are the 141's still in production?? I'm a bit nervous if Pioneer is not going to be making these anymore...

still in production yes, but if I am not mistaken this could be the last month so you may want to jump on it.

Just curious, I know the size is obviously different but how is the 141 compared to the sim for PQ?
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post #3346 of 5275 Old 06-13-2009, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by stevec325 View Post

(spitting coffee on my laptop) - LOL

Turbe? You don't even acknowledge our feeble attempts to get some kind of information out of you!

I think perhaps we should start a new thread where we all continually ask turbe about the IP function, and he just doesn't respond. Could be fun.
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post #3347 of 5275 Old 06-13-2009, 10:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ncfoster View Post

I think perhaps we should start a new thread where we all continually ask turbe about the IP function, and he just doesn't respond. Could be fun.

we can try that..but I dont think that would even make difference.

What do you think turbe?

If it helps I will pay twice as much.
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post #3348 of 5275 Old 06-14-2009, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

Just curious, I know the size is obviously different but how is the 141 compared to the sim for PQ?

It is a tough comparison. First of all, The Lumis is leaps and bounds better than the C3X1080, not even close. It even uses fiber optic cable from a host up front which is very, very nice. Only a regular HDMI or HD-SDI, 1 meter cable from the Oppo Blu Ray player to the Host. It is twice as bright and has a Lumen rating of 3000 Lumens! I switched to a matte 1.0 screen which was amazing... then throw in the dynamic iris/dynamic blacks... The Lumis has the best blacks on any front projection I hae ever seen, but the amazing part is that it can offer up to 35,000:1 on/off with D65 andabout 2000 lume output. To have the stunning BRIGHT and also the best blacks simultaneously is breathtaking... it is amazing, pure amazing in every category. The first projector that does it all. I am running on a 2.35, 11.5 wide screen. I know people using it on a 14' wide screen at the lowest bulb setting.

Hard to compare to the 60" 141 as you know... Just too different. They are the best in their respective categories. Front projection will probably always be at disadvatage to the best flat panels like the 141, simply because the 141 is near perfect. Both images are stunning... I would love to buy a 12' wide, 2.35 plasma .... hehe...

They both rock, that is the bottom line...
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post #3349 of 5275 Old 06-14-2009, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Health Nut View Post

...Hard to compare to the 60" 141 as you know... Just too different. They are the best in their respective categories. Front projection will probably always be at disadvatage to the best flat panels like the 141, simply because the 141 is near perfect. Both images are stunning... I would love to buy a 12' wide, 2.35 plasma .... hehe...

They both rock, that is the bottom line...

I prefer a properly setup theater with a Lumis. A 141 magnified to that size would not look nearly as good.
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post #3350 of 5275 Old 06-14-2009, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

we can try that..but I dont think that would even make difference.

What do you think turbe?

If it helps I will pay twice as much.

Pay??????? It's a maintenance release version. We get that for free

If that doesn't get a response - nothing will!

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post #3351 of 5275 Old 06-14-2009, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Mak999.

Nice and clean. And it looks like you can control your room lighting. Very important.

One thing. If your wall that your 141 is on is green, you may want to change the color to a neutral gray or flat white.

ss

Thanks for the compliment! I think it looks fairly professional, especially since it was not done by one!

If I'm looking at the right paint can in the garage, the color is made from black, maroon and (mostly) deep gold. The wall does have a goldish hue to it, and I wish I could take a better picture showing it closer to the actual color. Repainting the wall would be preferred, but for now the current color will have to do. And since the 141 is already mounted and in one piece, I want to leave her where she is!
Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

Not only are you part of the club of 141 owners, you are part of the even rarer club of people who mount it in their wall and do so with hiding all cables.

Well done.

Thanks! I do like the wall mount look. Plus that means less weight on the stand when I pull it out from the wall for cable/gear changes. I'm glad I installed the second PowerBridge for the bias lighting connection to my receiver, and the wall scoops to run a continuous length of HDMI from the receiver to the 141. The below pic is of the wall and all wall plates before mounting the 141 - yep, back to the messy room!


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post #3352 of 5275 Old 06-14-2009, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

Sadly the units for Canada came late. I would have ordered form the US had I known it was going to take this long. I am really, really looking forward to the new toy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

Why? I thought the blue only mode was a calibrators dreams.

That is sad. On the bright side now you have something to look forward to, and I am sure will not disappoint you.

I guess you could say that if all you were using is a calibration disc.

However If you are using a meter and calibration software, you would only try the blue filter once.
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post #3353 of 5275 Old 06-14-2009, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by umr View Post

I prefer a properly setup theater with a Lumis. A 141 magnified to that size would not look nearly as good.

This is one guy you should listen to.
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post #3354 of 5275 Old 06-14-2009, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transendance View Post

Can I assume that a calibrated 141 can perform as well as a 151fd?

(Now I am refering to some of the spectacular output levels achieved by d-nice on 151fd series)
( the reason this comes up is the frequent reference to the functional differences between these products - also the notion that the power supply might be smaller in the 141 (I get that from the lower consumption levels).

I get that the settings can be more "refined" because of the control differnces but can the set at least match the 151fd in performance peramters such as black levels and total lumens output?

The "blacks" question comes up because I say a working display not long ago at a local dealer and that unit at least had rather "bright" black bars on 2:35 content. The only thing I can think of there was that perhaps because of the bright room the bars appeared more grey , or that the unit may have been defective, (I tried the various picture modes and I don't think it was the room light sensor).


I told you it was a "Silly Question", bu I am on the "eve" of exchanging my 150fd for either a 141 or 151 and am finding the choice a little difficult. Cost is essentially the same in this case since the 141fd will need a stand and center channel speaker so the $500.00 price advantage hear in Canada disappears!

Thank you in advance....trans

Yes by all means exchange your 150 for a 151 or 141 if the cost is ok for you.
The black levels should be the same for your eyes with the 151 or the 141.

What you will need to do is get your 151/141 ISF calibrated. I think vancouver can help you with a calibrator.

If you need a center speaker then you may want to get the 151.

The 151 is a complete TV as where the 141 is a monitor.

Read the specs on both the 141/151 and then decide what best suits your needs. I doubt you will see any differential's in the picture quality between the 141/151.
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post #3355 of 5275 Old 06-14-2009, 09:34 PM
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Ok, I think I'm going to go ahead and finally get ControlCal. My question is, I have a 141 and just bought a 111, so do I need to buy ControlCal with two "profiles (111 and 141)?" Also, do I need to buy two licenses of ControlCal?
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post #3356 of 5275 Old 06-14-2009, 09:46 PM
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Okay I am going to mount (DIY) my 141 on KRP-WM01. What screw size, type, number I should be using in the wall. I have located the stud and as this will be my first experiment so really would help other owner's ideas, suggesion. What things should I consider, etc.

If there is any particular thread I should read, please let me know.

Thanks
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post #3357 of 5275 Old 06-15-2009, 06:06 AM
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Ok, I think I'm going to go ahead and finally get ControlCal. My question is, I have a 141 and just bought a 111, so do I need to buy ControlCal with two "profiles (111 and 141)?" Also, do I need to buy two licenses of ControlCal?

You will need 2 profiles. In March I got a second profile but needed to get a "Professional Key" at additional cost.
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post #3358 of 5275 Old 06-15-2009, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Pro-141FD View Post

Okay I am going to mount (DIY) my 141 on KRP-WM01. What screw size, type, number I should be using in the wall. I have located the stud and as this will be my first experiment so really would help other owner's ideas, suggesion. What things should I consider, etc.

If there is any particular thread I should read, please let me know.

Thanks

Does your wall mount not come with screws? MyPeerless OneMount came with six #14 x 2.5 wood screws (lag bolts), but I used slightly longer ones (3.5" IIRC) that I bought from the local hardware store. I had read reports that the some lag bolts that come pre-packaged with some mounts are cheap ones, which you could shear the heads off while screwing into the wall. The lag bolts I bought worked perfectly.

Use at least four bolts, or six is better if your mount allows. My OneMount spans across three studs, and I'm well below its rated 250# limit as the 141 specs list ~110# weight.

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post #3359 of 5275 Old 06-15-2009, 08:22 AM
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I apologize if this has already discussed but I was wondering what the proper setting for RGB is for the ps3 and pro 141fd? Currently I have the kuro on auto and the PS3 to auto and limited. I mostly use the ps3 for BD playback and occasionally to play games.
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post #3360 of 5275 Old 06-15-2009, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mak99 View Post

Does your wall mount not come with screws? MyPeerless OneMount came with six #14 x 2.5 wood screws (lag bolts), but I used slightly longer ones (3.5" IIRC) that I bought from the local hardware store. I had read reports that the some lag bolts that come pre-packaged with some mounts are cheap ones, which you could shear the heads off while screwing into the wall. The lag bolts I bought worked perfectly.

Use at least four bolts, or six is better if your mount allows. My OneMount spans across three studs, and I'm well below its rated 250# limit as the 141 specs list ~110# weight.

Good luck!

Thanks. Pioneer KRP-WM01 doesn't come with wood screws. Just 4 allen bolts for panel. The problem is the place. I was only able to locate two studs, so four bolts I can do. I can try use 8 bolts two on each corner. Not sure if any 141 owner has installed KRP-WM01 or its just me?

I am also planning to install fall-prevention screws as per the WM01 instruction manual.
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