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post #1441 of 5273 Old 11-11-2008, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vashti View Post

Yeah, but Pioneer Blu-ray players are supposed to do something with Pioneer TVs - where they fill in missing information and get something like a 37 bit picture. I don't know if it works well or not.

i heard that too...i just dont believe it.
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post #1442 of 5273 Old 11-11-2008, 02:30 PM
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I just went through this exercise of selecting a Blue-Ray player for my 141 (coming soon). I decided to purchase a PS3 for this purpose for now and sit back and see what develops. It seems like there's a lot of complaining about slow load times and disc compatibility problems with other players right now. It's hard for these players to beat the load times of the PS3 due to its advanced cell processor. I too was intrigued by the Kuro exploiting properties of the Pioneer BDP-05FD but I expect we'll quickly see a BD-Live version to replace it with hopefully better performance and compatibility. They need to come out with something to support BD-Live that's more price competitive than the upcoming BDP-09FD and its $2200 price tag. It’s just too early in their development for me to buy these more expensive players with advancements, reliability, and pricing improving so quickly. The PS3 also provides a lot more functionality than the stand-alone players (I might even be able to find a PS3 game I'd enjoy playing).

"Plasma TV ... so called because in order to afford one, you're going to have to sell your blood." -- Ed Helms, The Daily Show.
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post #1443 of 5273 Old 11-11-2008, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xortam View Post

I just went through this exercise of selecting a Blue-Ray player for my 141 (coming soon). I decided to purchase a PS3 for this purpose for now and sit back and see what develops. It seems like there's a lot of complaining about slow load times and disc compatibility problems with other players right now. It's hard for these players to beat the load times of the PS3 due to its advanced cell processor. I too was intrigued by the Kuro exploiting properties of the Pioneer BDP-05FD but I expect we'll quickly see a BD-Live version to replace it with hopefully better performance and compatibility. They need to come out with something to support BD-Live that's more price competitive than the upcoming BDP-09FD and its $2200 price tag. It's just too early in their development for me to buy these more expensive players with advancements, reliability, and pricing improving so quickly. The PS3 also provides a lot more functionality than the stand-alone players (I might even be able to find a PS3 game I'd enjoy playing).

I think that is a good plan. I'm going that route as well. Get the PS3 and wait for something better.

BTW, I'm finally falling in love with my 141. Sure was tough getting used to the buzzzzzzz though. Maybe now that I've decided to keep it I should post some pics

Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind
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post #1444 of 5273 Old 11-11-2008, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrox View Post

maybe now that i've decided to keep it i should post some pics

yes!
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post #1445 of 5273 Old 11-11-2008, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vashti View Post

Yeah, I'd also like to know why you're unhappy with the Pioneer. Of course, I'd love to buy something else that costs less - but was just wondering about that supposed benefit (36 bit depth) one gained by combining Pioneer TVs and blu ray players.

As for the PS3, I've read enough to know that this is probably the best thing out there. I know that Jeff really likes it. But I haven't bought any Sony products since the root-kit fiasco. Their corporate practices have bothered me so much that I just really hate filling their coffers with my money. If I can get something almost as good, I'd rather go with second best in this case.

Thanks all for the tips!

Vashti, as far as a BD player goes the panny BD35/55 is the best bang for the buck. Unless you want to play video games save yourself money and get the panny BD35 or BD55 if you use analog out for your audio, and or use DIVX. Beside all of this the panny BD55/35 is much more user friendly.

Yes at one time the PS3 was the best bang for your buck, however if you are not a gamer that is no longer the case. Plus the remote that you don't have with the PS3. Plus the PS3 will be harder to setup. And also I would say that jeff has never seen a panny BD 55/35. Plus the fact that jeff is not always right.

Owning both the PIO BD51 and the Panny BD55 along with the 141, I can say the panny is every bit as good a match as the PIO.

And as far as your 141 is the first one that jeff has worked on, I would say that you and jeff should have a understanding that if you what him to come back at a later date to make adjustments to your 141 and supporting hardware, then he should at no charge to you. Just because jeff is a for hire calibrator will not insure you of the best calibrations for your system. The reason why I say that is because he has never worked on a 141 and the 141 is much different than anything he has work on before.

Peter.
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post #1446 of 5273 Old 11-11-2008, 11:36 PM
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Are the recommended break-in settings for the 141 still the same as that of the 151? I'm not sure how long I'll go through the accelerated break-in seeing as the factory has already logged 200 hours on it. I think I may target 100 hours interlaced with some viewing sessions.

"Plasma TV ... so called because in order to afford one, you're going to have to sell your blood." -- Ed Helms, The Daily Show.
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post #1447 of 5273 Old 11-12-2008, 06:08 AM
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Hi Guys! I'm a relatively new member here on the forum. I, however, have been a lurker for some time. I took the plunge and upgraded my home theater equipment. My new equipment list is as follows: Elite 141 plasma, my first plasma TV, Elite BDP-05, my first Blu-ray player, Integra DHC 9.9 pre/pro attached to Earthquake Cinenova Grande 7 channel amp, New to separates as well.

I'm realizing how tedious it is setting up new equipment, dialing it in so to speak..... I'm using HDMI cables from Blue Jeans...Everything going to Integra 9.9. I'm running HMDI "through" for resolution. My question regarding the 141 plasma is this....I'm using D-Nice's recommended 150 hr Break in settings with the Break in DVD. I used this DVD for 6 hrs last night. Is this break in procedeure still current and advised? Does it matter which resolution I use on the BDP-05? meaning 720p, 1080p...for the color patterns on the break in DVD. I remember the creator of this DVD saying they were 720p images....does this matter?

My room light sensor on the 141 is off like D-Nice stated. One thing D-Nice says is Power save OFF.....but doing this causes the panel's screen to go black....Is this correct? Doesn't that cancel out what I'm trying to accomplish breaking in the screen? No light emitted. I also notice that after 6 continous hours of break in, My cooling fans don't come on at all...or at least I can't hear them, or recognize that they are working or not. The screen was pretty warm during this time. Is this normal? Will you really notice these fans working or not? Are they noticably audible? Please advise as I don't want to mess up my plasma.
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post #1448 of 5273 Old 11-12-2008, 10:06 AM
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Well, after two months of waiting, my 141 is up and running.

I have not had time to calibrate and tweak it but out of the box the picture is very good.

However, my 141 buzzes. With audio muted I can hear it buzz from at least 15ft away. Luckily, it's not loud so under normal volume conditions I can ignore it. Still, this shouldn't happen for a $5K+ monitor.

Also, I am having trouble with the 141 dvi connection and my ATI HD3650 video card. I suspect it's the card.

If any one has any advice concerning the best way to connect a PC to the 141 please let me know.
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post #1449 of 5273 Old 11-12-2008, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluedevilfan View Post

My cooling fans don't come on at all...or at least I can't hear them, or recognize that they are working or not. The screen was pretty warm during this time. Is this normal? Will you really notice these fans working or not? Are they noticably audible? Please advise as I don't want to mess up my plasma.

you are not going to hear your fans, its normal for the screen to get hot.
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post #1450 of 5273 Old 11-12-2008, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

you are not going to hear your fans, its normal for the screen to get hot.

Thank you for your input.
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post #1451 of 5273 Old 11-12-2008, 02:21 PM
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Quick update.


Buzzing still there. Wife notices it too. However, other than when muted, she's too busy being awestruck by the picture.

SD material on CW = crap

SD Daily Show & Colbert = better than I thought

HD DVD Planet Earth = HOLY SH*T
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post #1452 of 5273 Old 11-12-2008, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluedevilfan View Post

Hi Guys! I'm a relatively new member here on the forum. I, however, have been a lurker for some time. I took the plunge and upgraded my home theater equipment. My new equipment list is as follows: Elite 141 plasma, my first plasma TV, Elite BDP-05, my first Blu-ray player, Integra DHC 9.9 pre/pro attached to Earthquake Cinenova Grande 7 channel amp, New to separates as well.

I'm realizing how tedious it is setting up new equipment, dialing it in so to speak..... I'm using HDMI cables from Blue Jeans...Everything going to Integra 9.9. I'm running HMDI "through" for resolution. My question regarding the 141 plasma is this....I'm using D-Nice's recommended 150 hr Break in settings with the Break in DVD. I used this DVD for 6 hrs last night. Is this break in procedeure still current and advised? Does it matter which resolution I use on the BDP-05? meaning 720p, 1080p...for the color patterns on the break in DVD. I remember the creator of this DVD saying they were 720p images....does this matter?

My room light sensor on the 141 is off like D-Nice stated. One thing D-Nice says is Power save OFF.....but doing this causes the panel's screen to go black....Is this correct? Doesn't that cancel out what I'm trying to accomplish breaking in the screen? No light emitted. I also notice that after 6 continous hours of break in, My cooling fans don't come on at all...or at least I can't hear them, or recognize that they are working or not. The screen was pretty warm during this time. Is this normal? Will you really notice these fans working or not? Are they noticably audible? Please advise as I don't want to mess up my plasma.

If you are going to use dnice break in settings for the 151, I would keep contrast no higher than +45. Yes you are right Power save set to off cancels out the break in setting. Just set the power control to normal.
If you want to check on the fans, look at the back top were the vent holes are in your display. Just use a flash light and point the light at the holes, you should see the fans.
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post #1453 of 5273 Old 11-12-2008, 03:26 PM
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Another thing that is different on the Signature Monitors (and KRP-M's).


To Display the isf Information (4 text lines saved during ISF Calibration), see HERE:

Need to find a Professional Calibrator? Click Here to PM me with your Display & City

Calibrator List - Pioneer ISFccc Interface

Calibration Reports - Pioneer

 

ControlCAL™
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No need to fumble through the Display's Menu with its Remote Control™

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post #1454 of 5273 Old 11-13-2008, 04:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

....And as far as your 141 is the first one that jeff has worked on, I would say that you and jeff should have a understanding that if you what him to come back at a later date to make adjustments to your 141 and supporting hardware, then he should at no charge to you. Just because jeff is a for hire calibrator will not insure you of the best calibrations for your system. The reason why I say that is because he has never worked on a 141 and the 141 is much different than anything he has work on before.

Peter.

I guarantee all of my calibrations. Her's will not be the first.
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post #1455 of 5273 Old 11-13-2008, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ijon_Tichy View Post

Well, after two months of waiting, my 141 is up and running.

I have not had time to calibrate and tweak it but out of the box the picture is very good.

However, my 141 buzzes. With audio muted I can hear it buzz from at least 15ft away. Luckily, it's not loud so under normal volume conditions I can ignore it. Still, this shouldn't happen for a $5K+ monitor.

Also, I am having trouble with the 141 dvi connection and my ATI HD3650 video card. I suspect it's the card.

If any one has any advice concerning the best way to connect a PC to the 141 please let me know.

Congrats Ijon_Tichy, I'm a new 141 owner as well.

I have similar experience with the buzz. When there is no other sound in the room, I can hear it clearly as well. As stated multiple times by others before in this thread, I believe that:
- All plasmas inherently buzz
- Pioneer's buzz can be heard more because they do not use a third layer of glass, which trades better picture quality and no reflections for a higher buzz sound.
- The buzz is much more noticeable during break-in because of the full-field colors and high contrast settings.
- In real life situations, I belive that the buzz goes completely ignored. I have watched only a few movies so far and did not notice it AT ALL. I did notice it a little when using the screen as a monitor and no music playing.
- I agreed that you'd expect a top-line monitor without any speakers to be completey silent, but I think it will be very easy to live with it (meaning that I will not notice it in "real world" situations).
- Having read all of the posts, I believe that this is par for the course for Pioneer plasmas. Some have had sets which buzzed louder and were inacceptable, and were probably defective in some way and they got another set that was lower in buzz volume, but in my case, I may try to get another one to compare, but do not expect major difference.

For what it's worth, my "Energy save" is set to "standard" (I believe that's what was meant by D-Nice's "off" setting, and not "Picture off"....). If the buzz ever becomes a problem, there's always the option of Energy Save 1 or 2 that can be considered.

If you want to comment further on the buzz, I suggest we move this discussion to the Pioneer 9G "buzz" poll thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1044254).

Concerning your DVI input, I have connected my PC as well. The graphic card is an old (4 years+) PowerColor ATI Radeon 9200. My experience is that lower DVI resolutions work, up to 1024x768 IIRC. Higher than that, no picture. I have tried the various options in the advanced settings regarding lower frequency clock and "alternate" DVI setting, but without success. But I believe too that the blame is on the card. I also have a 24" LCD Dell monitor and was not able to get the DVI to work at full resolution.

When using the VGA connection, I get the 1920x1080 in all its glorious details without problems. I plan to upgrade the PC anyway to be able to decode HD streams, right now this old Shuttle SS51G can't keep up. I'll probably be looking for a graphic card with HDMI output anyway...

My setup is BDP-05 > HDMI > SC-07 > HDMI > 141. I haven't had the chance to tweak and try different settings, so it's all "out of the box". The various forums have been great reading!

Dan.
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post #1456 of 5273 Old 11-13-2008, 06:55 AM
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Ijon_Tichy: Ooops, having read your post just after Bluedevilfan's, I was under the impression that you were relatively new to the thread.... My bad. Sorry if the buzz part of my previous post seemed like stating the ovious, you probably knew all of that since you've been here a long time. I hope my comments on my PC experiences were a little more helpful.

Dan.
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post #1457 of 5273 Old 11-13-2008, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

If you are going to use dnice break in settings for the 151, I would keep contrast no higher than +45. Yes you are right Power save set to off cancels out the break in setting. Just set the power control to normal.
If you want to check on the fans, look at the back top were the vent holes are in your display. Just use a flash light and point the light at the holes, you should see the fans.

Thanks Sillysally!
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post #1458 of 5273 Old 11-13-2008, 09:06 AM
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post #1459 of 5273 Old 11-13-2008, 09:44 AM
 
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Thanks Jeff ^^ I'm sure it will be an excellent calibration. The extra fine settings and ControlCAL software that extends the brightness can make the ISF day/night calibration as close to perfect as possible.

Our tech's are at Vashti's home now adding a BD player and fine tuning the MX900 remote. Take good care of my friend Vashti.

-Robert
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post #1460 of 5273 Old 11-13-2008, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

Here is the data from the first 141 I calibrated. These displays are as good as the 151's and 111's.

What mode was that preset in?? That CT precal is very good. I'd rather have it slightly cool than slightly warm (on the regular elites on pure mode)

What is dead can never die. Long live my 151!
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post #1461 of 5273 Old 11-13-2008, 02:09 PM
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It's here!

"Plasma TV ... so called because in order to afford one, you're going to have to sell your blood." -- Ed Helms, The Daily Show.
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Originally Posted by xortam View Post

It's here!

Thats all you are going to give us ?
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post #1463 of 5273 Old 11-13-2008, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

I guarantee all of my calibrations. Her's will not be the first.

I know you do. Ask her what I said about you. As I have said before you would be on a very short list of calibrators if I was going to have my display calibrated by someone other than me.

Thanks for posting your report on the 141 calibration. That's what I have been trying to get you guys to do. The reason why is that you being a pro and folks like me being enthusiast lets us know if are settings are off or not. I for one am happy to see the comparisons between my ISF settings and yours. Thanks.
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post #1464 of 5273 Old 11-13-2008, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiDef Bob View Post


I also talked face to face to a Professional ISF Calibrator ...

For anyone interested in having a professional ISF calibration done in the Greater Vancouver area I can give you the name of a highly qualified calibrator who has many years of experience. He spent many years doing calibrations for a couple of high end video dealers before forming his own company. His pro equipment has ControlCal built in.

The last sentence is incorrect. However, I just spoke to him on the telephone (even talked about your conversation) and I will be adding him to the list of ControlCAL Calibrators..

Need to find a Professional Calibrator? Click Here to PM me with your Display & City

Calibrator List - Pioneer ISFccc Interface

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No need to fumble through the Display's Menu with its Remote Control™

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post #1465 of 5273 Old 11-13-2008, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer View Post

Thanks Jeff ^^ I'm sure it will be an excellent calibration. The extra fine settings and ControlCAL software that extends the brightness can make the ISF day/night calibration as close to perfect as possible.

Our tech's are at Vashti's home now adding a BD player and fine tuning the MX900 remote. Take good care of my friend Vashti.

-Robert

Great tools are more important than ControlCal. Better precision in adjustment is not valuable unless you have the tools to get the results.

I have taken care of her before and will again.
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post #1466 of 5273 Old 11-13-2008, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coltsfreak18 View Post

What mode was that preset in?? That CT precal is very good. I'd rather have it slightly cool than slightly warm (on the regular elites on pure mode)

I believe it was Pure.
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post #1467 of 5273 Old 11-13-2008, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

I believe it was Pure.

So the average color temperature of default pure on the sig. series is higher than the regular elites by a pretty significant (to my eyes) margin.

What is dead can never die. Long live my 151!
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post #1468 of 5273 Old 11-13-2008, 08:51 PM
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Sigh...

It looks like my move-in date of the house has been pushed back to Feb 10th.
This means I'll have to wait even longer for my new TV. I'm wondering if there's
anything new (small little revisions) on the 141 that could happen by then? I
read in another thread that someone was hoping for a thinner bezel. I definitely
concur the bezel of the 50 inch TVs are awesome! I'd also love a bluetooth
remote as I find it annoying that we still have to point the damned remote at
the bottom right hand side of the TV! My $149 20-inch CRT has much better
range! C'mon, the new remote is awesome... give it better range!!!

On that note, I kept an open mind and checked out the XBR8 and the Samsung
950 since, well, I already had an elite and figured I might want to consider
something new. Well, I gotta admit these LED TVs are pretty spectacular
during the day, and are pretty awesome in the dark. However, the off-angle
drop-off (especially in blacks) is a major turn-off (I won't talk about black
crush either as it may be a calibration issue). What I find interesting is these
TVs seem to be immune to one of the things I always hated about LCD's: You
don't need to sacrifice brightness to get good blacks. Still, at the end of the
day, I think of the amazing deal I solidified on the 141. Heck, the TV still is
the best in a home-theater environment which is what matters... and it's
60 inches!!!! The new LEDs definitely look awesome in a bright room, but so
does the Samsung 650/630 which are getting incredibly cheap! I mentioned
this already, but I can just about get a 141 + Samsung 650 for the price of an
XBR8... and I'm thinking about it.
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post #1469 of 5273 Old 11-13-2008, 11:13 PM
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Wow, I'm gone for the day and all kinds of things are happening on this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

I guarantee all of my calibrations. Her's will not be the first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

I know you do. Ask her what I said about you. As I have said before you would be on a very short list of calibrators if I was going to have my display calibrated by someone other than me.

Thanks for posting your report on the 141 calibration. That's what I have been trying to get you guys to do. The reason why is that you being a pro and folks like me being enthusiast lets us know if are settings are off or not. I for one am happy to see the comparisons between my ISF settings and yours. Thanks.

I know, I know. I told sillysally that I have every confidence in your work. And you can see what he said.

I am counting the hours until tomorrow morning. Well, technically, it is tomorrow morning. Are you here yet, Jeff?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer View Post

Thanks Jeff ^^ I'm sure it will be an excellent calibration. The extra fine settings and ControlCAL software that extends the brightness can make the ISF day/night calibration as close to perfect as possible.

Our tech's are at Vashti's home now adding a BD player and fine tuning the MX900 remote. Take good care of my friend Vashti.

-Robert

Aww, thanks. Yeah, Lissandro did a fantastic job. Suddenly, the remote is a whole different animal. I'll be getting a Blu-ray this weekend so I can take the player for a spin.

And another note, if any of you are thinking of getting bias lighting, DO IT!! Oh my God, I thought it was good before. This takes it to a whole other level. I'm a happy camper.
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post #1470 of 5273 Old 11-13-2008, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nambit View Post

Sigh...

It looks like my move-in date of the house has been pushed back to Feb 10th.
This means I'll have to wait even longer for my new TV. I'm wondering if there's
anything new (small little revisions) on the 141 that could happen by then? I
read in another thread that someone was hoping for a thinner bezel. I definitely
concur the bezel of the 50 inch TVs are awesome! I'd also love a bluetooth
remote as I find it annoying that we still have to point the damned remote at
the bottom right hand side of the TV! My $149 20-inch CRT has much better
range! C'mon, the new remote is awesome... give it better range!!!

On that note, I kept an open mind and checked out the XBR8 and the Samsung
950 since, well, I already had an elite and figured I might want to consider
something new. Well, I gotta admit these LED TVs are pretty spectacular
during the day, and are pretty awesome in the dark. However, the off-angle
drop-off (especially in blacks) is a major turn-off (I won't talk about black
crush either as it may be a calibration issue). What I find interesting is these
TVs seem to be immune to one of the things I always hated about LCD's: You
don't need to sacrifice brightness to get good blacks. Still, at the end of the
day, I think of the amazing deal I solidified on the 141. Heck, the TV still is
the best in a home-theater environment which is what matters... and it's
60 inches!!!! The new LEDs definitely look awesome in a bright room, but so
does the Samsung 650/630 which are getting incredibly cheap! I mentioned
this already, but I can just about get a 141 + Samsung 650 for the price of an
XBR8... and I'm thinking about it.

The one LCD TV that has blacks that can compete with the KUROS and that do not drop off off-angle is the new Sharp 65" HDTV AQUOS® Limited Edition Series LC65XS1US ... the only problem is that it lists for $16,000! However, with further viewing the Pioneer 141FD may still prove to have the best picture. But dollar for dollar the Pioneer is still hard to beat ... everyday I am more amazed with the PQ of this set!

Bob
If it is not HDTV it is not worth watching!
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