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post #1681 of 5275 Old 11-25-2008, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petmic10 View Post

Peter's settings are for Blu-ray.

Why would you want to activate any kind of noise reduction for Blu-ray?

The whole idea is to take a pure signal off the disc with the least
amount of processing, and send it to the panel.

Enhancer Mode 1 and sharpness at -15(no edge enhancements) is
preferred by purists. The above are even recommended by D-Nice.

Well said petmic. Yes I am a purest and that is what I like.

I only use my 141 for BD film source.

When I set out to come up with my ISF night mode calibrations for my viewing and my environment, I wanted a full as possible, accurate range in my gray scale (10% to 100% IRE) along with the luminance curve and gamma line and of course Pop. The reason for this, is because movies are all over the place. As where TV broadcast programs tend to be in a closer IRE range and broadcast with a lower resolution.

Peter.
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post #1682 of 5275 Old 11-25-2008, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues View Post

Looks like someone else's settings. I get a kick out these ''sticklers'' for accuracy when noise reduction is fantastic on these pioneers, and also use enhancer mode1(crappy).

Yes Zues you do not like enhancer mode1. And that is the point here. I like enhancer mode1, and sharpness set to -15. Am I right or are you right? What I say is that we are both right. You like enhancer mode2, and I like enhancer mode1 its that simply.

The only reason why I post my settings is just maybe someone(s) can use them and enjoy them. So the point here is that doing something is better than doing nothing.

btw; I do agree with Ken and what he is saying.
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post #1683 of 5275 Old 11-25-2008, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Yes Zues you do not like enhancer mode1. And that is the point here. I like enhancer mode1, and sharpness set to -15. Am I right or are you right? What I say is that we are both right. You like enhancer mode2, and I like enhancer mode1 its that simply.

The only reason why I post my settings is just maybe someone(s) can use them and enjoy them. So the point here is that doing something is better than doing nothing.

btw; I do agree with Ken and what he is saying.

Why do you even bother????

Your settings are appreciated by other Signature owners.
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post #1684 of 5275 Old 11-25-2008, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Yes Zues you do not like enhancer mode1. And that is the point here. I like enhancer mode1, and sharpness set to -15. Am I right or are you right? What I say is that we are both right.


I agree. As long as YOU feel you are right. But not because D-nice says so. I thought i should just bring it to your attention just in case. Blu-rays are pretty sharp if that's all you watch.
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post #1685 of 5275 Old 11-25-2008, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues View Post

I agree. As long as YOU feel you are right. But not because D-nice says so. I thought i should just bring it to your attention just in case. Blu-rays are pretty sharp if that's all you watch.

No my settings have nothing to do with D-Nice, they are 100% mine. Yes I did see that D-Nice and other ISF calibrators were using enhancer mode 1 on Elite 9g kuro's. But when It comes to the Elite Monitor there are no ISF night mode settings that I know about that are posted. However if you ask me do I respect D-Nice's work, my reply would be yes.

The one thing I do use that is D-Nice's work. Is the template you see that I add my settings to and then post it.

In closing the whole reason why I started to do my own ISF calibrations is because I want it my way. Lets face it once the ISF calibrator leaves your home that's it, you better be happy the way he/she setup your system, on less that calibrator lives close to you. And I am not saying that the calibrator did something wrong, all I am saying is there are many different ways to do a calibration, that are correct.
A good example of this is, you like enhancer mode 2 and I like enhancer mode 1. Either way is fine and will not make a calibration better or worse, its simply a preference, but non the less, It is part of a calibration.
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post #1686 of 5275 Old 11-25-2008, 11:16 PM
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You also have to make the assumption that the calibrator knows what he's doing and has accurate equipment.

Presuming you've got reasonable good color vision, the final test should be "does everyone look natural on most programming?" Throw out the channels that obviously have issues with their signal.

Samsung 64F8500, Panasonic 65VT50, Oppo 95, Tivo Roamio for OTA, Dish VIP722, Marantz AV8801 preamp, Rotel Amps, Atlantic Tech 8200 speakers, Seaton Submersive HP, Calman 5, Chromapure, Accupel DVG-5000, i1Display3pro, i1pro2, eecolor colorbox.
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post #1687 of 5275 Old 11-26-2008, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

You also have to make the assumption that the calibrator knows what he's doing and has accurate equipment.

Presuming you've got reasonable good color vision, the final test should be "does everyone look natural on most programming?" Throw out the channels that obviously have issues with their signal.

Jim.............You are absolutely correct IMO.
When I complete the calibration, the final touch for me is does it look like the REAL world; set aside the financial condition of this country.

John
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post #1688 of 5275 Old 11-26-2008, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Enhancer mode 1 is a high frequency sharpener on both the 8 and 9G Kuros. I have found no ill effects with this mode as long as the sharpness setting is left at -15.

D-Nice, any reason the general recommendation for this went from a '2' to a '1' despite the fact, as Jeff indicated, there's been no change in the dynamics of the enhancer mode?

I agree, I don't see any ill effects from a setting of 1.
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post #1689 of 5275 Old 11-26-2008, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I agree, I don't see any ill effects from a setting of 1.


Remember those Will Smith screenshots about which looks more accurate? With enhancer 1 i see too much detail, wrinkles, in skin tones.
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post #1690 of 5275 Old 11-26-2008, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Well said petmic. Yes I am a purest and that is what I like.

I only use my 141 for BD film source.

When I set out to come up with my ISF night mode calibrations for my viewing and my environment, I wanted a full as possible, accurate range in my gray scale (10% to 100% IRE) along with the luminance curve and gamma line and of course Pop. The reason for this, is because movies are all over the place. As where TV broadcast programs tend to be in a closer IRE range and broadcast with a lower resolution.

Peter.

Peter,

I am the same way too. The least amount of processing as possible
for me. I just calibrated Pure mode in my 151 using my I1pro and
Calman and have to say for a beginner I think I did okay. The PQ
looked phenomenal after I was done.

Next up is ISF modes w/ControlCal.

Keep posting your settings, many people appreciate it.

Mike

Display: Pioneer PRO-151 60" Elite
Blu-ray player: OPPO BDP-93, Sony BDP-S1000ES
HD DVD player: Toshiba HD-XA2(2)
Processor: Onkyo PR-SC885
Amplifier: Emotiva IPS-1 150Wx7
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post #1691 of 5275 Old 11-26-2008, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

D-Nice, any reason the general recommendation for this went from a '2' to a '1' despite the fact, as Jeff indicated, there's been no change in the dynamics of the enhancer mode?

I agree, I don't see any ill effects from a setting of 1.

Ken

I see no ill effects either on test patterns or regualr material, as long
as sharpness is at -15. If you start bumping the sharpness a little it
becomes more apparent.

Just my observation.

Mike

Display: Pioneer PRO-151 60" Elite
Blu-ray player: OPPO BDP-93, Sony BDP-S1000ES
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Processor: Onkyo PR-SC885
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post #1692 of 5275 Old 11-26-2008, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues View Post

Remember those Will Smith screenshots about which looks more accurate? With enhancer 1 i see too much detail, wrinkles, in skin tones.

As I said before, enhancer 1 and sharpness at -15 show no ill effects
on test patterns and actual content. I see plenty of detail with these
settings. Wrinkles, pimples, razor stubble, pores, Blu-ray is wonderful.

Ultimately, the only settings that matter are those that look best
to you.

Display: Pioneer PRO-151 60" Elite
Blu-ray player: OPPO BDP-93, Sony BDP-S1000ES
HD DVD player: Toshiba HD-XA2(2)
Processor: Onkyo PR-SC885
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post #1693 of 5275 Old 11-26-2008, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petmic10 View Post

Ken

I see no ill effects either on test patterns or regualr material, as long
as sharpness is at -15. If you start bumping the sharpness a little it
becomes more apparent.

Just my observation.

Mike

Mike, I too saw some edge enhancement as we moved up from -13, when Kevin Miller was here to do my ISF. However we only saw this on the test patterns and not on other material we viewed.

I tend to be less conservative with sharpness settings because of that. If I saw the same thing on real-world material that I do on test patterns, I'd back off on the sharpness. Pioneer's sharpness settings show less of a 'range' than some other manufacturers, so the difference between -15 and say '0' is much less than some other displays I've seen.
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post #1694 of 5275 Old 11-26-2008, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petmic10 View Post

As I said before, enhancer 1 and sharpness at -15 show no ill effects
on test patterns and actual content.


Enhancer1 and -15 is pretty much the same as enchancer2 and sharpness at 0. So if you like enhancer1 -15 you pretty much like sharpness at 0. Enchancer 2 will give you more flexibility with sharpness.
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post #1695 of 5275 Old 11-26-2008, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues View Post

Enhancer1 and -15 is pretty much the same as enchancer2 and sharpness at 0.

No it isn't. If you actually used test patterns you would have never posted the above.
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post #1696 of 5275 Old 11-26-2008, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

D-Nice, any reason the general recommendation for this went from a '2' to a '1' despite the fact, as Jeff indicated, there's been no change in the dynamics of the enhancer mode?

Because most people prefer the sharpening that enhancer 1 does while the sharpness is @ -15 compared to enhancer 2 with the same sharpness setting. Niether damages the picture and neither is wrong (as long as the sharpness is @ -15).
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post #1697 of 5275 Old 11-26-2008, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Because most people prefer the sharpening that enhancer 1 does while the sharpness is @ -15 compared to enhancer 2 with the same sharpness setting. Niether damages the picture and neither is wrong (as long as the sharpness is @ -15).

D-Nice, unlike UMR, you mentioned that there would be improvement in the picture quality of this display compared to 111. i am wondering where your thoughts are on that? Are you still feeling this display will provide visibly better picture pro-calibration? How do you feel about the picture quality of this display compared to regular elite? About same or better?
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post #1698 of 5275 Old 11-26-2008, 12:49 PM
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Has anyone tried the IR Repeater yet?

Will it control nonPio devices?
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post #1699 of 5275 Old 11-26-2008, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hd_newbie View Post

D-Nice, unlike UMR, you mentioned that there would be improvement in the picture quality of this display compared to 111. i am wondering where your thoughts are on that?

By the numbers, they are better....grayscale and color points.

Quote:


Are you still feeling this display will provide visibly better picture pro-calibration?

This is dependent on how good you are at critiquing PQ. For most people, they would not see a difference.

Quote:


How do you feel about the picture quality of this display compared to regular elite? About same or better?

Overall, it yields a better picture. By how much.....varies per person. I personally would just get the regular Elite.
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post #1700 of 5275 Old 11-26-2008, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petmic10 View Post

Peter,

I am the same way too. The least amount of processing as possible
for me.
Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by petmic10 View Post

As I said before, enhancer 1 and sharpness at -15 show no ill effects
on test patterns and actual content. I see plenty of detail with these
settings. Wrinkles, pimples, razor stubble, pores, Blu-ray is wonderful.

Ultimately, the only settings that matter are those that look best
to you.

Mike,

You nailed it. "Least amount of processing". This is the biggest reason why I have a 9G Elite Kuro, and not a Panasonic(also a very good display). There is no need to use the the filters. At least for what I use my Kuro for.

For me, I love to see detail I have never seen before. Like I was viewing Kill Bill (BD), and when AKA Mommy woke up in the hospital and knocked on the side of her head I clearly saw the steal plate in her head, with my new settings.

You will find that controlcal is easy to use. The other thing I found using ISF mode, is that the picture detail and pop seems to improve. However that is just my preference.

Peter.
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post #1701 of 5275 Old 11-26-2008, 04:54 PM
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IMO, what we are reading here about are likes and dislikes, just goes to show that there is no one right way to calibrate because of likes and dislikes.

Just because all but one of us like enhancer mode 1 on are 9G Kuro's, does that mean that mode 1 is the right way for everybody. Of course not and just severs as a good example that we are all a little different in are like and dislikes.

As a enthusiast I do not what to "assume" anything, that's why I have taken the time to learn and hopefully will continue to learn from the pros plus trial and error on my part to become better.
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post #1702 of 5275 Old 11-26-2008, 10:22 PM - Thread Starter
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I just got my display calibrated by Michael TLV. I was really surprised to see that in fact the ISF modes add more luminance or "pop" to the picture vs a calibrated AV selection.

Big different between calibrated vs factory pure....no question about it.

report Attached

I dont think i can say more then what has already been posted by others that got their display calibrated. I will say that IMO you are nuts to buy this display and not calibrate it. Its only running at 60-70% of its potential out of the box. Calibration is a must do.

 

Nolan Detailed Calibration Summary.pdf 106.119140625k . file
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Nolan Detailed Calibration Summary.pdf (106.1 KB, 9 views)
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post #1703 of 5275 Old 11-26-2008, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

I just got my display calibrated by Michael TLV.

Thanks for your report about Michael Chen ( furrypig01@yahoo.com ) working on your display. If you can use the edit button to add more information about your reactions to the calibration, that would be great.

I've added your report to the flat panel (Post#2) list that's linked at the bottom of my post.

Enjoy.
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post #1704 of 5275 Old 11-27-2008, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

No it isn't. If you actually used test patterns you would have never posted the above.


I don't need test patterns, remember d-nice It's possible there is more edge enhancement using the sharpness control. But at my viewing distance i can't see it. But i will compare. It really don't make sense if you are against using sharpness (stickler) but welcome enhancer1. With real world content the sharpness level, is similar, but not identical.
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post #1705 of 5275 Old 11-27-2008, 08:52 AM
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What happens to the 141's that people return because of buzzing or some other anomaly? Do they get sold to someone else as new? Sold as used? Refurbed and sold? Sent back to Pio?

Mike
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Mike, good question ^^. Two years ago Pioneer began enforcing a "no returns for credit" policy on out of box defective panels. This policy refers to dealer's stock and not customer owned products. What happens is the TV is repaired if needed and the dealers may be able to get some credit from Pioneer top help sell the item as an open box repaired unit.

However, most of the returns are perfectly good and no repairs are necessary so the retailer sells the item as a returned TV with a discount. I take home returns that I can use in my home or sell them to friends at below cost.

-Robert
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post #1707 of 5275 Old 11-28-2008, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues View Post

Enhancer1 and -15 is pretty much the same as enchancer2 and sharpness at 0. So if you like enhancer1 -15 you pretty much like sharpness at 0. Enchancer 2 will give you more flexibility with sharpness.

I would have to respectfully disagree with this. Enhancer 2 and sharpness
at 0 adds way to much edge enhancement on test patterns and on actual
content to my eyes anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

No it isn't. If you actually used test patterns you would have never posted the above.

Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues View Post

I don't need test patterns, remember d-nice It's possible there is more edge enhancement using the sharpness control. But at my viewing distance i can't see it. But i will compare. It really don't make sense if you are against using sharpness (stickler) but welcome enhancer1. With real world content the sharpness level, is similar, but not identical.

This is definately a preference of yours, which of course, is all that
matters. If the extra sharpening is not visible to your eyes at your
seating distance then by all means adjust it to were it is most pleasing
to you.

Display: Pioneer PRO-151 60" Elite
Blu-ray player: OPPO BDP-93, Sony BDP-S1000ES
HD DVD player: Toshiba HD-XA2(2)
Processor: Onkyo PR-SC885
Amplifier: Emotiva IPS-1 150Wx7
Game Console: Xbox 360, PS3
Speakers: Mythos ST(Fronts), Mythos Ten(Center), Mythos One(Rears)

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post #1708 of 5275 Old 11-28-2008, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

IMO, what we are reading here about are likes and dislikes, just goes to show that there is no one right way to calibrate because of likes and dislikes.

Just because all but one of us like enhancer mode 1 on are 9G Kuro's, does that mean that mode 1 is the right way for everybody. Of course not and just severs as a good example that we are all a little different in are like and dislikes.

As a enthusiast I do not what to "assume" anything, that's why I have taken the time to learn and hopefully will continue to learn from the pros plus trial and error on my part to become better.

Peter,

This time you nailed it.

There is no right or wrong way. The only way that matters is what
looks best to you.

Mike

Display: Pioneer PRO-151 60" Elite
Blu-ray player: OPPO BDP-93, Sony BDP-S1000ES
HD DVD player: Toshiba HD-XA2(2)
Processor: Onkyo PR-SC885
Amplifier: Emotiva IPS-1 150Wx7
Game Console: Xbox 360, PS3
Speakers: Mythos ST(Fronts), Mythos Ten(Center), Mythos One(Rears)

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post #1709 of 5275 Old 11-28-2008, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petmic10 View Post

Peter,

This time you nailed it.

There is no right or wrong way. The only way that matters is what
looks best to you.

Mike

true...but one cant deny there is a reference. How much you deviate from that reference is personal choice...you cant really set the screen to what ever you like and then refer to it as professionally calibrated. Or calibrated under ISF or THX standards etc. Proper calibration is really "what you personally like". True calibrations is setting the display to a standard.
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post #1710 of 5275 Old 11-28-2008, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

true...but one cant deny there is a reference. How much you deviate from that reference is personal choice...you cant really set the screen to what ever you like and then refer to it as professionally calibrated. Or calibrated under ISF or THX standards etc. Proper calibration is really "what you personally like". True calibrations is setting the display to a standard.

I agree.

Ultimately, I don't think there is a right or wrong way as long as
the outcome is your enjoyment. Everyone has different tastes
and preferences.

I prefer a calibration as close to reference as possible.

Mike

Display: Pioneer PRO-151 60" Elite
Blu-ray player: OPPO BDP-93, Sony BDP-S1000ES
HD DVD player: Toshiba HD-XA2(2)
Processor: Onkyo PR-SC885
Amplifier: Emotiva IPS-1 150Wx7
Game Console: Xbox 360, PS3
Speakers: Mythos ST(Fronts), Mythos Ten(Center), Mythos One(Rears)

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