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post #1741 of 5273 Old 11-30-2008, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

stacy,

I had to scratch my head about WAF too. Then I remember the "Wife Approval Factor" which probably means jrannison had to buy something for his wife in order to get her approval for the 141 purchase. Thus the WAF surcharge. It can become quite expensive as wives get anything from jewlery to room additions.

Ahhhh...the ole WAF! Well, when it comes to Home Theater, WAF is pretty EASY for me. "Do whatever you want!" So, I'm about to pull the trigger on the 141! That said... WAF on the Porsches and watches...now THAT'S another story....
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post #1742 of 5273 Old 11-30-2008, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baddgsx View Post

another weird thing happened while i was checking out which i liked better , advanced or smooth. I was using the just the remote to play with the smooth and advanced settings on my standard mode because i didnt feel like plugging in the laptop to use controlcal. I finally figued out which i liked best and wanted to go back to my ISF day mode and IT WAS GONE!!!!

I dont know what happend but my ISF day mode isnt there. The night mode is still there though. What should i do? I backed up these settings on my laptop.


HELP!! How do i get this mode to show up again? Can it be done using the remote or do i have to use the laptop again?

Thanx Chris

Relax everything will be fine.

Just reenter your settings for day mode using controlcal.

What happened to the day mode is anybody's guess. However I have never lost any ISF settings.

Peter.
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post #1743 of 5273 Old 11-30-2008, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

I'll need to look into this too since I have a PS3 and 141. I probably should just search, what pattern/test disc are you using again (and which pattern specifically?


sillysally, are you experiencing any issues with your BR Players?

Well it is well documented what I think about my pio BD51 (1.17) and yes there is a problem with crush with the BD51 and my 141. However using my panny BD55 there is np.

I don't really rely on the ramps with DVE, but yes I do check them when I am done calibrating. As I think you know I use my spectroradiometer (i1pro) and Calman, along with the raw data reports that Calman puts out.

I know you have worked with Pioneer on the software of the 141. So maybe you and Pioneer could work on a updated for the software/firmware of the CMS in the 141.

Please note that I am saying you, because of the great job you did with the ISF mode software of Controlcal.
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post #1744 of 5273 Old 11-30-2008, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

However using my panny BD55 there is np.

hmmm, it doesn't sound like a 141 issue...

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post #1745 of 5273 Old 11-30-2008, 06:26 PM
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post #1746 of 5273 Old 11-30-2008, 09:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Has anyone been able to confirm if it is possible to access the 141 remotely if it is hooked up to network? I remember reading pioneer was able to do it, and I need my calibrator to make a minor adjustment to the ISF and since I am unable to access it myself I want to save him the trip if possible.

I gave him the IP address to my display and it didnt work.
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post #1747 of 5273 Old 12-01-2008, 03:15 AM
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Thats the only draw back to the ISF modes. You need the software if u had an ISF tech do the calibration and want to make minor adjustments like i did. And also it takes more time to hook the laptop up and connect the serial cable to make an adjustment. Id rather use the remote but i cant.

My minor adjustment was to the sharpness setting. I can see why on the test pattern Kevin choose -13 , but i like it on -4. I see the difference -4 does to the sharpness pattern on bluray DVE but i dont see any negative results on movie or games source material. ( like ringing ) The added sharpness to me gives a more engoyable picture. I really , really like this display now.

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post #1748 of 5273 Old 12-01-2008, 04:47 AM
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Are there any adjustments that can be made in the ISF mode that can't be done in the user menu?

Samsung 64F8500, Panasonic 65VT50, Oppo 95, Tivo Roamio for OTA, Dish VIP722, Marantz AV8801 preamp, Rotel Amps, Atlantic Tech 8200 speakers, Seaton Submersive HP, Calman 5, Chromapure, Accupel DVG-5000, i1Display3pro, i1pro2, eecolor colorbox.
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post #1749 of 5273 Old 12-01-2008, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

hmmm, it doesn't sound like a 141 issue...

The only thing I'll add here Turbe is that I have seen white clipping on both the Pioneer 05 and the PS3 players. I think if the player passes 0-255 as opposed to 16-235, you'll see the clipping issue. A player that restricts its output to 16-235 may result in the display never showing a white clipping issue. With the 05, a simple one click lowering of white level solves the issue completely. Unfortunately there's no way to do that on the PS3.

So I guess what I'm saying is that I do believe there is a WTW issue with the 9g Elites (111/141/151) when fed a 0-255 signal. Again, I don't think this is a real issue with real world material since properly mastered BDs will never show WTW anyway.
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post #1750 of 5273 Old 12-01-2008, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

Has anyone been able to confirm if it is possible to access the 141 remotely if it is hooked up to network? I remember reading pioneer was able to do it, and I need my calibrator to make a minor adjustment to the ISF and since I am unable to access it myself I want to save him the trip if possible.

I gave him the IP address to my display and it didnt work.

Based on the manual, you can enter all the normal configurations (not clear about the ISF) because they apparently provide HTML pages.
Your local IP address would not be available to the outside world because the router does the address translation from the outside address.
Remote access can be done if you understand network systems. Just like remote Windows access.

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post #1751 of 5273 Old 12-01-2008, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

The only thing I'll add here Turbe is that I have seen white clipping on both the Pioneer 05 and the PS3 players. I think if the player passes 0-255 as opposed to 16-235, you'll see the clipping issue. A player that restricts its output to 16-235 may result in the display never showing a white clipping issue. With the 05, a simple one click lowering of white level solves the issue completely. Unfortunately there's no way to do that on the PS3.

So I guess what I'm saying is that I do believe there is a WTW issue with the 9g Elites (111/141/151) when fed a 0-255 signal. Again, I don't think this is a real issue with real world material since properly mastered BDs will never show WTW anyway.

There is no such thing as WTW with a 0-255 signal. 0 equals black and 255 equals white.
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post #1752 of 5273 Old 12-01-2008, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baddgsx View Post

Thats the only draw back to the ISF modes. You need the software if u had an ISF tech do the calibration and want to make minor adjustments like i did. And also it takes more time to hook the laptop up and connect the serial cable to make an adjustment. Id rather use the remote but i cant.

My minor adjustment was to the sharpness setting. I can see why on the test pattern Kevin choose -13 , but i like it on -4. I see the difference -4 does to the sharpness pattern on bluray DVE but i dont see any negative results on movie or games source material. ( like ringing ) The added sharpness to me gives a more engoyable picture. I really , really like this display now.

There seems to be a way to access the ISF mode via the web server of the 141, but it prompts for a password. As many already know once you get the ISF modes calibrated and your calibrator leaves you are stuck. I am OK with that if there were no errors. I do however need to make a small change. Someone must know this password?

Is there anyone from Pioneer reading this thread that can help?

D-Nice, do you or anyone you know have this password?
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post #1753 of 5273 Old 12-01-2008, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

hmmm, it doesn't sound like a 141 issue...

Or is it?
Don't know if you saw results I posted in the 05/51 thread from some testing I did at Roberts store.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post15075905

Draw your own conclusions.
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post #1754 of 5273 Old 12-01-2008, 10:24 AM
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eddiscus, I missed your post.. I would like to post that at my forum as well, hopefully that is okay..

I need to reconnect my XA2 and test that (I didn't take the time to eBay it yet )...

I believe Kevin experienced that with the Pioneer Player and a 151 as well (easily fixed)..

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post #1755 of 5273 Old 12-01-2008, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by turbe View Post

eddiscus, I missed your post.. I would like to post that at my forum as well, hopefully that is okay..

I need to reconnect my XA2 and test that (I didn't take the time to eBay it yet )...

I believe Kevin experienced that with the Pioneer Player and a 151 as well (easily fixed)..

Go ahead and post.

Let me know how the XA2 interacts.

That is one of the nice things about the 05/51 there are a # of ways to make the player work with different setups.
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post #1756 of 5273 Old 12-01-2008, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

eddiscus, I missed your post.. I would like to post that at my forum as well, hopefully that is okay..

I need to reconnect my XA2 and test that (I didn't take the time to eBay it yet )...

I believe Kevin experienced that with the Pioneer Player and a 151 as well (easily fixed)..

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiscus View Post

Go ahead and post.

Let me know how the XA2 interacts.

That is one of the nice things about the 05/51 there are a # of ways to make the player work with different setups.


White level to -1 fixes this very minor problem.

At least on my 151 it does.

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post #1757 of 5273 Old 12-01-2008, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by petmic10 View Post

White level to -1 fixes this very minor problem.

At least on my 151 it does.

Agreed, it is minor and fixed easily. But what magic exists between the 05/51 and the 141 if any that causes this.
It is there to a lesser degree on the 111 and 151.
Not a problem with the 110 and 150.
No big deal just inquisitive.
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post #1758 of 5273 Old 12-01-2008, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

There is no such thing as WTW with a 0-255 signal. 0 equals black and 255 equals white.

What I meant to say is that when a 0-255 signal is allowed, a grayscale ramp shows the brightest white to be slightly clipped.

I did some further testing today and found that as another poster said, when the DRE is activated at any level, the white clipping is gone. None of the AV settings (with DRE off) avoided the clipping issue, however DRE at a setting of even 'low' does show the entire ramp.

Again, it's not a big deal and totally absent with properly mastered material.
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post #1759 of 5273 Old 12-01-2008, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiscus View Post

Or is it?
Don't know if you saw results I posted in the 05/51 thread from some testing I did at Roberts store.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post15075905

Draw your own conclusions.

Eddie, I think there's little doubt that this issue does exist in the 9g Elites. My observations and your testing show the same thing...unless we're all overlooking something.
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post #1760 of 5273 Old 12-01-2008, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiscus View Post

Agreed, it is minor and fixed easily. But what magic exists between the 05/51 and the 141 if any that causes this.
It is there to a lesser degree on the 111 and 151.
Not a problem with the 110 and 150.
No big deal just inquisitive.

Again, it's not just with the 05/51, the same exact issue can be seen on my PS3, only there's no way to correct it on the PS3. I tried turning 'super-white' off on the PS3 and that had no effect. However, activating any level of DRE on the 151, eliminated the issue there too.
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post #1761 of 5273 Old 12-01-2008, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

There seems to be a way to access the ISF mode via the web server of the 141, but it prompts for a password. As many already know once you get the ISF modes calibrated and your calibrator leaves you are stuck. I am OK with that if there were no errors. I do however need to make a small change. Someone must know this password?

Is there anyone from Pioneer reading this thread that can help?

D-Nice, do you or anyone you know have this password?

Here's something for you to think about.

1. Even if your ISF calibrator can access your 141 via the web, how would he/she know that the changes are correct. Without fiscally taking readings from the source after the changes are made, the source being your 141 ?

I should add if the changes that are to be made are in Profile 1 of Controlcal.
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post #1762 of 5273 Old 12-01-2008, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiscus View Post

Agreed, it is minor and fixed easily. But what magic exists between the 05/51 and the 141 if any that causes this.
It is there to a lesser degree on the 111 and 151.
Not a problem with the 110 and 150.
No big deal just inquisitive.

eddi, thanks for your testing. The one thing I didn't try was increasing the black setting (+1) in my BD51 along with lowing the white setting (-1). That may just do the trick.

And as you have pointed out some of the other BD players do not have this problem, were as the ps3 and the BD05/51 does have a problem.
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post #1763 of 5273 Old 12-01-2008, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiscus View Post

Agreed, it is minor and fixed easily. But what magic exists between the 05/51 and the 141 if any that causes this.
It is there to a lesser degree on the 111 and 151.
Not a problem with the 110 and 150.
No big deal just inquisitive.

Agreed.

Leaves me scratching my head.

Thank goodness it is correctable.

Display: Pioneer PRO-151 60" Elite
Blu-ray player: OPPO BDP-93, Sony BDP-S1000ES
HD DVD player: Toshiba HD-XA2(2)
Processor: Onkyo PR-SC885
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post #1764 of 5273 Old 12-01-2008, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Are there any adjustments that can be made in the ISF mode that can't be done in the user menu?

There are 6 more adjustments that ive seen on the interface ( not in the user menu ) that Kevin used on my 141. I believe they were color adjustments, Turbe can u correct me if im wrong.

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post #1765 of 5273 Old 12-01-2008, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Again, it's not just with the 05/51, the same exact issue can be seen on my PS3, only there's no way to correct it on the PS3. I tried turning 'super-white' off on the PS3 and that had no effect. However, activating any level of DRE on the 151, eliminated the issue there too.

Do you have a selection on the PS3 for HDMI colorspace or something equal to RGB (16-235). Just wondering if it will work on the PS3 as it worked on the 05/51.
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post #1766 of 5273 Old 12-01-2008, 05:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Here's something for you to think about.

1. Even if your ISF calibrator can access your 141 via the web, how would he/she know that the changes are correct. Without fiscally taking readings from the source after the changes are made, the source being your 141 ?

I should add if the changes that are to be made are in Profile 1 of Controlcal.

becase ..tht change that needs to happen is only the screen position. It already perfectly calibrated, but for some reason the position is at -7.
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post #1767 of 5273 Old 12-01-2008, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

becase ..tht change that needs to happen is only the screen position. It already perfectly calibrated, but for some reason the position is at -7.

Do you mean Screen Size/Zoom? That will be >=0 and that Control is not static, you can change it at any time using the Remote Control.

There is no 'screen position' control in the ISFccc Interface...

Check this POST to see what Controls are available in the ISFccc Interface..

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post #1768 of 5273 Old 12-01-2008, 06:15 PM
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Does Advanced mode apply 3/2 pull down and then convert to 72hz? or does it repeat 24 , 3 times?

Anyone know also what frame rate does smooth run in? and whats being done there.

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post #1769 of 5273 Old 12-01-2008, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

Do you mean Screen Size/Zoom? That will be >=0 and that Control is not static, you can change it at any time using the Remote Control.

There is no 'screen position' control in the ISFccc Interface...

Check this POST to see what Controls are available in the ISFccc Interface..

It seems I found an anomaly with the 141 with the help of Michael TLV.

I noticed for some odd reason under the picture setting while in ISF (pic below) the V. position was set to -7. Since I noticed this the day after Michael calibrated my display I figured it was done in error while he was here. I also figured that the reason I could not change the V. position was because it was in ISF mode and no changes could be made (aside from screen size). I was right and wrong.



Michael came back and spent about an hour with me trying to figure out what we were seeing and we concluded the following.

1.) The reason I couldn't change the V position was because I was in Dot by Dot which does not allow you to change it. Any other screen size lets you regardless if you are in ISFccc or not.

2.) Sure enough the -7 happens, or at least shows on the screen as it does not actually move the picture a -7.

3.) what was not able to be confirmed was what caused this. The -7 showed up with different source signals. Sometimes with 1080i and sometimes with 1080p. It never actually changed the position of the picture. It only showed when using Dot by Dot.


So I can confirm it has nothing to do with the calibration or any settings done incorrectly by the user. Sometimes the display shows a -7 and sometimes not...i dont know why...yet.
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post #1770 of 5273 Old 12-01-2008, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baddgsx View Post

Does Advanced mode apply 3/2 pull down and then convert to 72hz? or does it repeat 24 , 3 times?

The latter with film based material.

Quote:


Anyone know also what frame rate does smooth run in? and whats being done there.

60Hz with frame interpolation
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