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post #1831 of 5273 Old 12-13-2008, 04:18 PM
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Break in disc for me was just a convenience as it has a 16 hour playback with full screen colour shifts every thirty seconds.

So you guys are saying 150 hours in addition to whatever pioneer is doing in factory correct?

The literature in the 141 bio & manual is sketchy on what methods Pioneer is taking past turning the phosphors on and off repeatedly.

is it agreed that they are adding at least 100 hours of their own break in?
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post #1832 of 5273 Old 12-13-2008, 05:03 PM
 
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Yea I would run additional hours on your own
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post #1833 of 5273 Old 12-13-2008, 06:21 PM - Thread Starter
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i ran an additional 100+ hours or so. Calibration went perfect and I game for hours at a time without a hint of IR. What more could you ask for?
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post #1834 of 5273 Old 12-13-2008, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

yes you can but that display button never told you if it was 1080p 24

I was under the impression that if you go to PC Input, the 141 WILL display that you are at 1080p/24fps (72Mhz). However, when my Denon 3800 is set to 1080p/24 ON THE FRONT PANEL I get NO picture if I switch in the input on the 141 to PC. I DO get a picture if I set the Denon to 1080i or 1080p, but NO picture on 1080p/24 via the PC input. On video input for the 141, hitting display only tells me that I have a 1080p signal when running 1080p/24 to the 141. source. Am I missing something??
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post #1835 of 5273 Old 12-13-2008, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

i ran an additional 100+ hours or so. Calibration went perfect and I game for hours at a time without a hint of IR. What more could you ask for?

You are running the pixel orbiter in mode 2 right? That covers all size modes?
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post #1836 of 5273 Old 12-14-2008, 06:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid Burn View Post

You are running the pixel orbiter in mode 2 right? That covers all size modes?

i run it in mode 2. My calibrator needed to turn it off when he calibrated it...im not sure why thou..forgot to ask.
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post #1837 of 5273 Old 12-15-2008, 10:18 PM
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Another question for you guys

I have my 141 running through an Sony HTSF2300 hdmi receiver, hooked to the receiver is a PS3 and some other toys

When I am in the PS3 menu, and I hit the kuro display button I get 1080P 24 bit

if I run the hdmi from the 141 directly to the PS3 I get 1080P 36 bit or deep colour, as far as I know my reciever is supposed to be deep colour compatible (xv colour as sony calls it)

Why doesn't the Kuro read the 36 bit signal throught the receiver? any ideas?
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post #1838 of 5273 Old 12-16-2008, 07:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid Burn View Post

Another question for you guys

I have my 141 running through an Sony HTSF2300 hdmi receiver, hooked to the receiver is a PS3 and some other toys

When I am in the PS3 menu, and I hit the kuro display button I get 1080P 24 bit

if I run the hdmi from the 141 directly to the PS3 I get 1080P 36 bit or deep colour, as far as I know my reciever is supposed to be deep colour compatible (xv colour as sony calls it)

Why doesn't the Kuro read the 36 bit signal throught the receiver? any ideas?


My guess is that your receiver isnt HDMI 1.3. My Rotel processor is only 1.1 and i too only get 24 bit showing.
Whats important to know if that you are not lossing any visible picture quality since no disc now or likely ever on BD will be true 36 bit color.
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post #1839 of 5273 Old 12-16-2008, 09:26 AM
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I will have to check into that, seems strange for a receiver to "support" deep colour but be incapable of using that support due to not being 1.3

I will have to look into that, I know that deep colour is a future thing, but still cool to see 36 bit on the ps3 menu when it is running directly to the Kuro
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post #1840 of 5273 Old 12-16-2008, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid Burn View Post

I will have to check into that, seems strange for a receiver to "support" deep colour but be incapable of using that support due to not being 1.3

I will have to look into that, I know that deep colour is a future thing, but still cool to see 36 bit on the ps3 menu when it is running directly to the Kuro

If the receiver supports deep colour then it MUST have HDMI 1.3. You need 1.3 to support deep colour, but having 1.3 does NOT mean that the device has deep colour support. For example, Sony have a few projectors that have HDMI 1.3 but do NOT support deep colour.
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post #1841 of 5273 Old 12-16-2008, 09:46 PM - Thread Starter
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just curious, and not that it matters.
'

In theory if there was a BD that was 36 bit "deep color" and you played it on your PS3 ( or other 1.3 deep color compatible player) would the 9G be able to display 36 bit deep color? Why wouldnt there even be a deep color demo disc?
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post #1842 of 5273 Old 12-17-2008, 06:10 AM
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This unit is two weeks old and completed 150 hour burn-in

I am very disappointed with the color space calibration. Primarily the Green is oversaturated; and yes the 141 is set to Color Space 2 !!

I have included two files, one with RGB input from the computer, the other is HDMI input utilizing the AVS rec709 disc with a Panasonic BD30.
The data was taken with the 141 in Pure mode, and you will note the RGB gain settings to obtain RGB balance for Gamma.

The Chroma-5 meter is new and I confirmed (approximately) with my older LT meter.

Any suggestions or ideas? …………..Have the unit replaced (this is the second unit, the first one had a totally cracked display), or can I trust that Pioneer will repair this correctly.

I’m also going to post this on the 9G Kuro Settings/Issues forum.

John
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post #1843 of 5273 Old 12-17-2008, 06:23 AM
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John, you may need to get your unit professionally calibrated. Most Kuros have a + green grayscale according to D-Nice. But there is no reason that a proper ISF calibration should not be able to correct this. I've never heard of a unit that couldn't be brought into proper calibration.
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post #1844 of 5273 Old 12-17-2008, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

John, you may need to get your unit professionally calibrated. Most Kuros have a + green grayscale according to D-Nice. But there is no reason that a proper ISF calibration should not be able to correct this. I've never heard of a unit that couldn't be brought into proper calibration.

I had contacted D-Nice and he appeared surprised that the Green CIE Gamut data was at those values. He thought I may be at Color Space 1 setting and I re-verified I was at setting 2.
The green can be adjusted using the CMS control, but a setting of about -20 is required and that distroys the Gray Scale and is almost impossible to bring in even with the ISF Gamma controls.

John
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post #1845 of 5273 Old 12-17-2008, 01:49 PM
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The Signature Series is pre-aged in the factory for 200 hours (according to the rep I talked to).
I ran the Break-in Disc for 150 hours.
I run the video pattern for 1 hour every couple of weeks (accessible through Option).

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post #1846 of 5273 Old 12-17-2008, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrannison View Post

I had contacted D-Nice and he appeared surprised that the Green CIE Gamut data was at those values. He thought I may be at Color Space 1 setting and I re-verified I was at setting 2.
The green can be adjusted using the CMS control, but a setting of about -20 is required and that distroys the Gray Scale and is almost impossible to bring in even with the ISF Gamma controls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

That's easily explainable. The 141 has an expanded range of control vs the 151 (120 for 141 vs 60 for 151) for the RGB controls. I totally forgot about that last night...my bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Your RGB green is fine as you cannot control the colorspace setting with a PC input (it's pretty much hardcoded to colorspace 1). Your HDMI green is also fine for the 141. One thing you need to take into account is the fact the the Chroma5 is not as accurate as a spectroradiometer when it comes to color points. If I recall correctly I got similar green reading when I was testing my Chroma5.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrannison View Post

Thanks for the insight. I didn't realize the Chroma-5 would be that far off.


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post #1847 of 5273 Old 12-17-2008, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrannison View Post

This unit is two weeks old and completed 150 hour burn-in

I am very disappointed with the color space calibration. Primarily the Green is oversaturated; and yes the 141 is set to Color Space 2 !!

I have included two files, one with RGB input from the computer, the other is HDMI input utilizing the AVS rec709 disc with a Panasonic BD30.
The data was taken with the 141 in Pure mode, and you will note the RGB gain settings to obtain RGB balance for Gamma.

The Chroma-5 meter is new and I confirmed (approximately) with my older LT meter.

Any suggestions or ideas? ..Have the unit replaced (this is the second unit, the first one had a totally cracked display), or can I trust that Pioneer will repair this correctly.

I'm also going to post this on the 9G Kuro Settings/Issues forum.

Yes what you are seeing with your RGB Green is correct. As far as I can tell, the only way to correct the High Green is by bumping up your High Blue by +11 or +12 and High Red +2 or +3 for ISF night.
I am working on new settings for ISF night see my calibration report link below. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post15317196
I have tried many ways to ISF calibrate my 141, including +/- Green H/L and using the 9 point gamma controls. However imo adjusting H/L green or 9 point gamma is not the right settings for my eyes. Also making much of a change from the defaults in CMS is not the right way for me to go. The reason why I don't like to make changes with my CMS default settings, is because of what those changes do to my 75% white.
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post #1848 of 5273 Old 12-17-2008, 04:15 PM
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I own a 150fd that was ISF calibrated and I was interested in knowing if the 141 would be a noticable improvement, it would be hard to imagine considering how good the 150 looks.

Stan
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post #1849 of 5273 Old 12-17-2008, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stan550 View Post

I own a 150fd that was ISF calibrated and I was interested in knowing if the 141 would be a noticable improvement, it would be hard to imagine considering how good the 150 looks.

Stan

Yes.
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post #1850 of 5273 Old 12-17-2008, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stan550 View Post

I own a 150fd that was ISF calibrated and I was interested in knowing if the 141 would be a noticable improvement, it would be hard to imagine considering how good the 150 looks.

Stan

Having gone from a 150 to a 151, I can concur with Peter, it IS an improvement...and not a subtle one at that.
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post #1851 of 5273 Old 12-17-2008, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

John, you may need to get your unit professionally calibrated. Most Kuros have a + green grayscale according to D-Nice. But there is no reason that a proper ISF calibration should not be able to correct this. I've never heard of a unit that couldn't be brought into proper calibration.

Not that it matters, but it was umr who noted that the Pioneers were +G.
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post #1852 of 5273 Old 12-17-2008, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stan550 View Post

I own a 150fd that was ISF calibrated and I was interested in knowing if the 141 would be a noticable improvement, it would be hard to imagine considering how good the 150 looks.

Stan

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post #1853 of 5273 Old 12-17-2008, 08:34 PM
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Ok, I'm throwing my hands up. Who can solve this mystery for me? How the heck do you do PIP with a 141 and an SC-07 receiver?! I have two HDMI cables going from both of the SC-07's HDMI outputs into the 5 & 6 HDMI inputs on my 141. What I'm trying to do is watch TV (component) while having my PS3 (HDMI) in a PIP window and swapping both in and out when I need to. However I have yet to even get the PIP to work. Can anyone offer some suggestions?
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post #1854 of 5273 Old 12-18-2008, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanaticalism View Post

Not that it matters, but it was umr who noted that the Pioneers were +G.

Well you are right it doesn't matter. D-Nice did say it. Who said it first, don't know but I would not disagree with Ken.

One thing is for sure. And that is D-Nice posts some very good ISF calibrated settings for are 8 and 9G Kuros. Plus he will help us want a be home calibrators. I cant say that about umr, can you?
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post #1855 of 5273 Old 12-18-2008, 04:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaoChe View Post

Ok, I'm throwing my hands up. Who can solve this mystery for me? How the heck do you do PIP with a 141 and an SC-07 receiver?! I have two HDMI cables going from both of the SC-07's HDMI outputs into the 5 & 6 HDMI inputs on my 141. What I'm trying to do is watch TV (component) while having my PS3 (HDMI) in a PIP window and swapping both in and out when I need to. However I have yet to even get the PIP to work. Can anyone offer some suggestions?

Unfortunately, what the 141 manual fails to specify is that to use PIP, one of the inputs has to be input 1, 2 or 3. You can't PIP two HDMI input.

I believe that the two HDMI of the SC-07 will always show the same output, so that's no help (Slight chance I may be wrong on this).

Personnally, I connected my Zone 2 component out of my SC-07 to the 141, so I can watch a secondary signal by selecting it on the Zone 2 of the SC-07.

In your case, the problem is that to get the sound of the TV, your main zone has to be the one to select the TV input. If the PS3 is connected only through HDMI, then you can't get its signal to the Zone 2 component. If you could connect the PS3 image with either component, S-Video or (ack) composite, then you could get its image as a PIP.

Dan.
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post #1856 of 5273 Old 12-18-2008, 05:34 PM
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Pioneer 9G Elite Monitor 141 ISF-Night Settings.
I used a Panasonic DMP-BD55 for these settings
24P on, 1080P.
ControlCAL is required for these settings.

Picture Settings:
AV Selection: ISF-Night
Contrast: 22
Brightness: 1
Color: +3
Tint: 0
Sharpness: -15

Pure Cinema: 2 (Advance)
Black Level: 0 (Off)
CTI: 0 (Off)
Color Space: 2
Color Temp: 6 (Manual)
Screen size 0 (Dot By Dot)

ACL: 0 (Off)
3DYC: 2
I-P Mode: 2
Text Optimization: 0 (Off)
Intelligent Mode: 0 (Off)
DRE Picture: 0 (Off)

Enhancer Mode: 1
Block NR: 0 (Off)
3DNR: 0 (Off)
Field NR: 0 (Off)
Mosquito NR: 0 (Off)

Power Save Mode: Off
Orbiter: Mode 0

RGB Controls
R High: +3
G High: 0
B High: +12
R Low: -1
G Low: 0
B Low:-1

Color Management
R: 0
Y: +1
G: 0
C: 0
B: 0
M: 0

Gamma
10%R 0
10%G 0
10%B 0
20%R 0
20%G 0
20%B 0
30%R 0
30%G 0
30%B 0
40%R 0
40%G 0
40%B 0
50%R 0
50%G 0
50%B 0
60%R 0
60%G 0
60%B 0
70%R 0
70%G 0
70%B 0
80%R 0
80%G 0
80%B 0
90%R 0
90%G 0
90%B 0

Template's by D-Nice

Here is a link to my ISF night settings and report for my pio BD-51.http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post15546767

Here is a link to my ISF night settings and report for my panny HD-A35. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post15452782

 

SillySallyGandC.pdf 167.7978515625k . file
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post #1857 of 5273 Old 12-18-2008, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Template's by D-Nice

Try setting the margins in the printer page setup menu to 0.5 for all 4 sides so that it will print out on 2 pages.
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post #1858 of 5273 Old 12-18-2008, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Try setting the margins in the printer page setup menu to 0.5 for all 4 sides so that it will print out on 2 pages.

Just tried to print as you said, and it works like a charm. Just don't forget to click on the post # just to the left of link to get a signal post page to print.
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post #1859 of 5273 Old 12-18-2008, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Just tried to print as you said, and it works like a charm. Just don't forget to click on the post # just to the left of link to get a signal post page to print.

haha, he was talking about the CalMAN Report/template (PDF Format)..

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post #1860 of 5273 Old 12-18-2008, 10:09 PM
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Peter, I must say, no matter what the reports say, you've done a wonderful job for those of us with 141's and access to ControlCAL. Those latest ISF-Night settings are very, very pleasing with my setup (6500K bias lights, dark room). Thanks for sharing your hard work with all of us.
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