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post #1861 of 5275 Old 12-18-2008, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Well you are right it doesn't matter. D-Nice did say it. Who said it first, don't know but I would not disagree with Ken.

One thing is for sure. And that is D-Nice posts some very good ISF calibrated settings for are 8 and 9G Kuros. Plus he will help us want a be home calibrators. I cant say that about umr, can you?

Huh?

I wasn't making it a "D vs U". They both have been very helpful to me, and I appreciate everything that both D, and umr have done. D-Nice has been a detrimental part in many others decisions in purchasing an Elite. No one can argue what he provides to everyone here on AVS.

And yes, he must be commended for putting all of these settings free of charge, regardless of his current ventures into the professional world.
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post #1862 of 5275 Old 12-18-2008, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by turbe View Post

haha, he was talking about the CalMAN Report/template (PDF Format)..

LOL, I tried to do that with my report but couldn't. Only with my settings.

btw: I posted my new settings and "Can't get any better than that" (per D-Nice) lame formatted reports . As you requested on your forum.
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post #1863 of 5275 Old 12-19-2008, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanaticalism View Post

Huh?

I wasn't making it a "D vs U". They both have been very helpful to me, and I appreciate everything that both D, and umr have done. D-Nice has been a detrimental part in many others decisions in purchasing an Elite. No one can argue what he provides to everyone here on AVS.

And yes, he must be commended for putting all of these settings free of charge, regardless of his current ventures into the professional world.

Detrimental is not the word to use. It means "causing harm or hurt". If any of you guys remember, UMR used to provide much help and settings as well.

What is dead can never die. Long live my 151!
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post #1864 of 5275 Old 12-19-2008, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

LOL, I tried to do that with my report but couldn't. Only with my settings.

btw: I posted my new settings and "Can't get any better than that" (per D-Nice) lame formatted reports . As you requested on your forum.

I'll have to give them a try...

Need to find a Professional Calibrator? Click Here to PM me with your Display & City

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post #1865 of 5275 Old 12-19-2008, 05:55 PM - Thread Starter
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so no one knows if in theory you had a disc and source that was 36 bit "deep color" if the 141 could display it?

I asked early but no one seemed to chime in. I guess it doesnt really matter since we will never get our favorite movies in "deep color" and its nothing but a fake marketing thing...im just curious though.
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post #1866 of 5275 Old 12-19-2008, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

so no one knows if in theory you had a disc and source that was 36 bit "deep color" if the 141 could display it?

I asked early but no one seemed to chime in. I guess it doesnt really matter since we will never get our favorite movies in "deep color" and its nothing but a fake marketing thing...im just curious though.

It would accept and play it using the maximum color capabilities of the panel.
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post #1867 of 5275 Old 12-20-2008, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by coltsfreak18 View Post

Detrimental is not the word to use. It means "causing harm or hurt". If any of you guys remember, UMR used to provide much help and settings as well.

Hmm... Seems I made a booboo then lol.
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post #1868 of 5275 Old 12-21-2008, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

It would accept and play it using the maximum color capabilities of the panel.

Do you know the maximum color capabilities of the 141/151? Is it 36 bit or much higher then what current BDs offer?
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post #1869 of 5275 Old 12-21-2008, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by info_dan View Post

Unfortunately, what the 141 manual fails to specify is that to use PIP, one of the inputs has to be input 1, 2 or 3. You can't PIP two HDMI input.

I believe that the two HDMI of the SC-07 will always show the same output, so that's no help (Slight chance I may be wrong on this).

Personnally, I connected my Zone 2 component out of my SC-07 to the 141, so I can watch a secondary signal by selecting it on the Zone 2 of the SC-07.

In your case, the problem is that to get the sound of the TV, your main zone has to be the one to select the TV input. If the PS3 is connected only through HDMI, then you can't get its signal to the Zone 2 component. If you could connect the PS3 image with either component, S-Video or (ack) composite, then you could get its image as a PIP.

Dan.

Thanks for the explanation Dan, but that is pretty disappointing. After a few discussions here I was under the impression the 141 could do PIP with any source. Seriously, what is the problem with implementing PIP correctly? One of the main reasons I chose the 141 over the 151 was because the 151 could only do PIP with the built in tuner. I thought the benefit with the 141 was that you could do PIP with ANY input. I guess I was asking too much from a $7000 display. After all, PIP is a pretty advanced function.

And as for the SC-07, I thought the reason behind the 2 HDMI outs was that it could output two different sources. Well again, I guess I was assuming too much from a high end receiver.

Seriously, my old CRT TV could do PIP with no problems. But for some reason these high end state of the art displays can't seem to get it right. Pretty disappointing.
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post #1870 of 5275 Old 12-21-2008, 08:27 PM - Thread Starter
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it its pretty strange...I personally never use PIP, but I can see how it would be frustrating if you do. Seems like a simple thing.
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post #1871 of 5275 Old 12-22-2008, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaoChe View Post

Thanks for the explanation Dan, but that is pretty disappointing. After a few discussions here I was under the impression the 141 could do PIP with any source. Seriously, what is the problem with implementing PIP correctly? One of the main reasons I chose the 141 over the 151 was because the 151 could only do PIP with the built in tuner. I thought the benefit with the 141 was that you could do PIP with ANY input. I guess I was asking too much from a $7000 display. After all, PIP is a pretty advanced function.

And as for the SC-07, I thought the reason behind the 2 HDMI outs was that it could output two different sources. Well again, I guess I was assuming too much from a high end receiver.

Seriously, my old CRT TV could do PIP with no problems. But for some reason these high end state of the art displays can't seem to get it right. Pretty disappointing.

I'm no expert in video processing, but I'm guessing that the circuitry and computing power required to process a digital signal is not negligeable. I can see that you would need two sets of such circuitry or a much faster processor for proper PIP. After all, 1920x1080 @ 60 Hz in 36 bits is about half a Gigabyte of data PER SECOND. That's a lot of pixels to decode from the HDMI or DVI stream and process. I'm guessing that due to the different nature of the analog inputs (VGA/Component/Composite), a different circuitry is needed and is therefore "inactive" when using a digital input, so making PIP is easy when you have two sets of circuitry.

I have a similar limitation on my 24" Dell Widescreen computer monitor, PIP can only be done with one source being VGA or DVI, and the second being component, S-video or composite.

Are there any TV/Monitors out there that can do PIP with two HDMI or DVI signals?

Dan.
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post #1872 of 5275 Old 12-22-2008, 03:17 PM
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Hello everybody,

Can anybody recommend an authorized dealer in Atlanta where I can get a good price for the PRO-141, I would appreciate any advice,

Danutz75.
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post #1873 of 5275 Old 12-23-2008, 02:16 PM
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I cancelled an order for a 151FD after reading this thread and the one comparing both models. Now I'm eagerly awaiting the 141FD. I have a question about wall mounting I'm hoping a current owner can answer. The connections all come straight out the back of the display. The low-profile mounting bracket brings the display very close to the wall. Even if I cut a hole in the wall behind the display for the HDMI cable to protrude into, I don't see how to connect it to the display while mounting the display on the way--there's no room behind the unit to fit fingers. So how did you hook yours up?
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post #1874 of 5275 Old 12-23-2008, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sk20 View Post

I cancelled an order for a 151FD after reading this thread and the one comparing both models. Now I'm eagerly awaiting the 141FD. I have a question about wall mounting I'm hoping a current owner can answer. The connections all come straight out the back of the display. The low-profile mounting bracket brings the display very close to the wall. Even if I cut a hole in the wall behind the display for the HDMI cable to protrude into, I don't see how to connect it to the display while mounting the display on the way--there's no room behind the unit to fit fingers. So how did you hook yours up?

the HDMI points input points down on the 141. You wont have any issue plugging it in.
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post #1875 of 5275 Old 12-23-2008, 03:18 PM
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That would be outstandingly good news! The reason I asked is that the manual seemed to show them coming out the back.
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post #1876 of 5275 Old 12-23-2008, 03:59 PM
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Vancouver (or any other owner)--do you hear any fan noise from the display? We have an old flat panel we're replacing, and it has audible fan noise that drives me crazy. In the store, the 151FD had none we could detect, even after they turned off everything else so we could listen. I haven't been able to listen to a 141FD in the store.
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post #1877 of 5275 Old 12-23-2008, 04:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sk20 View Post

Vancouver (or any other owner)--do you hear any fan noise from the display? We have an old flat panel we're replacing, and it has audible fan noise that drives me crazy. In the store, the 151FD had none we could detect, even after they turned off everything else so we could listen. I haven't been able to listen to a 141FD in the store.

0 fan noise
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post #1878 of 5275 Old 12-23-2008, 04:23 PM
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Hi Everyone, I just picked up a 141 from bestbuy, does anyone know how to check the amount of hours the TV has been used They claim it is new but it does not have the strap on the box. I inspected the fans on the back and see no dust and cannot see any finger prints on the screen.
Also there is the annoying buzz that comes on when the picture is bright.
On non hdmi signals the tv also has 3-4" dark purple scan lines that run from the bottom of the screen to the top. this only happens on cable and dvd signals and does not have it when playing from the PS3. all are running connected to the elite receiver.
thanks in advance


sorry for the double post, posted in the 151 thread by accident
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post #1879 of 5275 Old 12-23-2008, 04:26 PM
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Just for interests sake I made some observations on the startup black level shifts the 141 has (some claim these are floating blacks but they are nothing of the sort - see #3 below)

We all know how the startup sequence on the 141 (all Pio models?) has a higher black level that drops after about 10-15 seconds and if left without any stimulus will drop to zero. Well I've made some interesting observations recently. My 141 has no less than 6 levels of black on the startup sequence with a 7th being pixels off. Here is the sequence I observe:

1 - Initial Startup from OFF - Uniform high black level (presumably to prime all pixels)
2 - 10-15 seconds after startup - Black level drops 3 sequential levels and is uniform
3 - Upon detection of an input the black level drops another 2 sequential levels to a final level with a nearly totally black oval shape in the centre of the screen. This level is maintained and stable during display of source material.
4 - Without any stimulus black level drops to zero (panel drivers shut off to conserve power, nothing special here)

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post #1880 of 5275 Old 12-23-2008, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrox View Post

Just for interests sake I made some observations on the startup black level shifts the 141 has (some claim these are floating blacks but they are nothing of the sort - see #3 below)

We all know how the startup sequence on the 141 (all Pio models?) has a higher black level that drops after about 10-15 seconds and if left without any stimulus will drop to zero. Well I've made some interesting observations recently. My 141 has no less than 6 levels of black on the startup sequence with a 7th being pixels off. Here is the sequence I observe:

1 - Initial Startup from OFF - Uniform high black level (presumably to prime all pixels)
2 - 10-15 seconds after startup - Black level drops 3 sequential levels and is uniform
3 - Upon detection of an input the black level drops another 2 sequential levels to a final level with a nearly totally black oval shape in the centre of the screen. This level is maintained and stable during display of source material.
4 - Without any stimulus black level drops to zero (panel drivers shut off to conserve power, nothing special here)

That is how my 151 does it, so I'd assume all 9Gs do. You should PM that to discopaul, who preaches that the kuros float blacks.

What is dead can never die. Long live my 151!
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post #1881 of 5275 Old 12-23-2008, 06:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ingenuity1996 View Post

Hi Everyone, I just picked up a 141 from bestbuy, does anyone know how to check the amount of hours the TV has been used They claim it is new but it does not have the strap on the box. I inspected the fans on the back and see no dust and cannot see any finger prints on the screen.
Also there is the annoying buzz that comes on when the picture is bright.
On non hdmi signals the tv also has 3-4" dark purple scan lines that run from the bottom of the screen to the top. this only happens on cable and dvd signals and does not have it when playing from the PS3. all are running connected to the elite receiver.
thanks in advance


sorry for the double post, posted in the 151 thread by accident


if you connect your 141 to your network you can send yourself a test email which says how many hours have been used on the display.
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post #1882 of 5275 Old 12-23-2008, 06:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrox View Post

Just for interests sake I made some observations on the startup black level shifts the 141 has (some claim these are floating blacks but they are nothing of the sort - see #3 below)

We all know how the startup sequence on the 141 (all Pio models?) has a higher black level that drops after about 10-15 seconds and if left without any stimulus will drop to zero. Well I've made some interesting observations recently. My 141 has no less than 6 levels of black on the startup sequence with a 7th being pixels off. Here is the sequence I observe:

1 - Initial Startup from OFF - Uniform high black level (presumably to prime all pixels)
2 - 10-15 seconds after startup - Black level drops 3 sequential levels and is uniform
3 - Upon detection of an input the black level drops another 2 sequential levels to a final level with a nearly totally black oval shape in the centre of the screen. This level is maintained and stable during display of source material.
4 - Without any stimulus black level drops to zero (panel drivers shut off to conserve power, nothing special here)

Can I ask why this is important to know? Is this a good thing or bad thing?
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post #1883 of 5275 Old 12-23-2008, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

Can I ask why this is important to know? Is this a good thing or bad thing?

You're asking my permision to ask me why it is important? LOL

If the first 4 words in my post missed you then I would say it is of little importance On the other hand, there are a few posters spreading false information suggesting the 9G pioneer has floating blacks. And even more important/interesting to me is how these panels operate on a technical level (and there are a few other posters who share this interest). I still can't figure out why the black oval is there and if it is necessary. I have some theories.

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post #1884 of 5275 Old 12-23-2008, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by xrox View Post

You're asking my permision to ask me why it is important? LOL

If the first 4 words in my post missed you then I would say it is of little importance On the other hand, there are a few posters spreading false information suggesting the 9G pioneer has floating blacks. And even more important/interesting to me is how these panels operate on a technical level (and there are a few other posters who share this interest). I still can't figure out why the black oval is there and if it is necessary. I have some theories.

A. Would you care to tell us what those theories are?

B. I thought the black oval was blotching and is from an uneven filter placement or something of the sort.

C. It was one person spreading that false information.

Edit: xrox, yeah there were more than one users saying that.

I think both of these theories are very good, and both of them are quite plausible.

What is dead can never die. Long live my 151!
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post #1885 of 5275 Old 12-23-2008, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coltsfreak18 View Post

A. Would you care to tell us what those theories are?

B. I thought the black oval was blotching and is from an uneven filter placement or something of the sort.

C. It was one person spreading that false information.

I thought sharpan..... and some others were stuck on this false info?

The black oval is only visible on the final startup black level (on my panel) with all other levels having perfect uniformity. This tells me the oval is on the pixel level and deals with light emission (not the filter). On my panel the black oval is near total black (pixels completely off). One theory is based on the assumption that this is not a design requirement (see other theory below). Possibly, during manufacture, the dielectric and magnesium oxide coatings are not uniformly deposited leaving the central portion of the screen with different discharge characteristics than the outer portion. Since these materials tend to sputter and spread across the screen this phenomenon may slowly even out over usage.

A second theory is that this is designed into the panel. Not quite sure why yet and the only thing I can think of is that a certain number of pixels are needed to actually discharge a tiny amount in order to keep some priming effect going while operating at minimum luminence. They chose the outer portion of pixels as they are used the least amount.

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post #1886 of 5275 Old 12-23-2008, 09:21 PM
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Always thinking eh xrox
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrox View Post

I thought sharpan..... and some others were stuck on this false info?

The black oval is only visible on the final startup black level (on my panel) with all other levels having perfect uniformity. This tells me the oval is on the pixel level and deals with light emission (not the filter). On my panel the black oval is near total black (pixels completely off). One theory is based on the assumption that this is not a design requirement (see other theory below). Possibly, during manufacture, the dielectric and magnesium oxide coatings are not uniformly deposited leaving the central portion of the screen with different discharge characteristics than the outer portion. Since these materials tend to sputter and spread across the screen this phenomenon may slowly even out over usage.

A second theory is that this is designed into the panel. Not quite sure why yet and the only thing I can think of is that a certain number of pixels are needed to actually discharge a tiny amount in order to keep some priming effect going while operating at minimum luminence. They chose the outer portion of pixels as they are used the least amount.

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post #1887 of 5275 Old 12-24-2008, 01:48 PM
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Hey Everyone!

I have signed up to have Michael Chen calibrate my Signature Elite when he's doing his winter tour in the GTA. There is still an opportunity to have yours calibrated by Michael if you send him an email (furrypig01@yahoo.com) requesting his service. He will be finalizing the list and creating a schedule sometime in January. Clients will be notified once the list is finalized.

He did mention that his calibration sessions typically run 4 to 5 hours during which time he shows you to how to calibrate your plasma. At the end of your Calibration 101 session you will end up with a perfectly calibrated TV. Michael did mention that the clients are NOT permitted to opt out of the education portion of the process.

Don't miss this opportunity to have your TV calibrated by one of the finest calibrators in North America.

Cheers!
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post #1888 of 5275 Old 12-24-2008, 02:00 PM
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Our 141 arrived an hour or so ago, and it's being installed on Friday!
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post #1889 of 5275 Old 12-24-2008, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sk20 View Post

Our 141 arrived an hour or so ago, and it's being installed on Friday!

Oh my, not till Friday.

Welcome to the 141 club. You will have a ball with your 141.

I would suggest in the mean time you look into ISF settings. imo the ISF modes will get the most out of your brand new 141.
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post #1890 of 5275 Old 12-24-2008, 04:16 PM
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Probably everyone who gets one will ask the same question--what are the definitive settings for breaking in the display? I have the break-in DVD.
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