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post #1981 of 5273 Old 01-02-2009, 03:33 PM
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Just to confirm, you cannot use the "PC Mode" trick on a 141 to determine the input refresh frequency, correct? Is there any other way to check that the display is actually receiving a 24Hz or 60Hz or 30Hz signal?
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post #1982 of 5273 Old 01-02-2009, 03:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlarsen462 View Post

Just to confirm, you cannot use the "PC Mode" trick on a 141 to determine the input refresh frequency, correct? Is there any other way to check that the display is actually receiving a 24Hz or 60Hz or 30Hz signal?

i think the PC mode thing does work.
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post #1983 of 5273 Old 01-02-2009, 04:31 PM
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When you click the screen size button, it shows you (I think) the input characteristics.
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post #1984 of 5273 Old 01-02-2009, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

i think the PC mode thing does work.

I put it in PC Mode and then hit "info" and it just showed the same info in the top left that it usually does (i.e no refresh rate).
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post #1985 of 5273 Old 01-02-2009, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

for DVDs, TV and any other non BD video your scaler will do a better job at upconversion so there is still lots of value in it. Blu ray doesnt need conversion or scalering so you want to simply send the native 1080p 24 sginal to your 141 and set the video on the 141 to advanced or smooth.

Hmm, You really think that the scaler will do a better job of up converting than the 141 for SD DVD, to justify the cost? At best you may have a 1 to 3 percent better picture but on the other hand you may end up with a degraded signal.
I have a Lumagen P/S (it will input & output 1080P@24) and also a Denon 3930.
Both of these very good upscaler's are out of my loop. I can get a better calibration for my 141 without the Lumagen or the Denon 3930, for my 141.
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post #1986 of 5273 Old 01-02-2009, 05:21 PM
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Does anyone know if the 141 can accept 1080p/72fps as an *input*?
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post #1987 of 5273 Old 01-02-2009, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by jrannison View Post

The site works fine!..........enter all (including the UC) of the serial number in UPPER CASE.

So what does that site actually offer? I am still debating if I will get the signature or not and knowing what this site offers might help.
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post #1988 of 5273 Old 01-02-2009, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sk20 View Post

Does anyone know if the 141 can accept 1080p/72fps as an *input*?

Any source that you would have would be at 30fps for video and 24fps for film that I know of. Now the refresh with your 141 would be at 60Hz (30fps x 2 = a refresh rate of 60Hz) for video, and 72Hz for film (24fps x 3 = a refresh rate of 72Hz).
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post #1989 of 5273 Old 01-02-2009, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by dmcfan View Post

So what does that site actually offer? I am still debating if I will get the signature or not and knowing what this site offers might help.

Nothing really. Just a factory white balance measurement. No real world help.
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post #1990 of 5273 Old 01-02-2009, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sk20 View Post

Does anyone know if the 141 can accept 1080p/72fps as an *input*?


It may accept 1080p/48 from a VP but I have no way of testing it.

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post #1991 of 5273 Old 01-02-2009, 07:07 PM
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A review I read says the 141 is *not* doing frame interpolation when it converts 1080p/24fps to 1080p/72fps.

If it's not doing frame interpolation, then how does displaying the same frame three times in a row faster make any difference?
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post #1992 of 5273 Old 01-02-2009, 07:33 PM
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I picked up a new 141 and needed to order a bracket since my in place Peerless SmartMount SF660 Universal Flat Mount apparently doesn't fit and I'll need it to mount the old Plasma in a new room with it anyway.

Would I cause any problem if I tested the Monitor out while leaving it in the base of the shipping box with just the bottom Styrofoam packing? I'd like to start breaking it in over the weekend. The new bracket arrives on the 6th.

Thank you.

George
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post #1993 of 5273 Old 01-02-2009, 07:46 PM
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George--get the mount from Pioneer that's specifically for the 141. We got it, and it mounts the display really close to the wall. It looks great, and improved the imaging of our speakers.
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post #1994 of 5273 Old 01-02-2009, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeHolland View Post

I picked up a new 141 and needed to order a bracket since my in place Peerless SmartMount SF660 Universal Flat Mount apparently doesn’t fit and I’ll need it to mount the old Plasma in a new room with it anyway.

Would I cause any problem if I tested the Monitor out while leaving it in the base of the shipping box with just the bottom Styrofoam packing? I’d like to start breaking it in over the weekend. The new bracket arrives on the 6th.

Thank you.

George

Can't see why that would hurt anything. Just make sure you are not blocking any vent holes and the air can circulate around your 141, make sure your new 141 will not fall over.
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post #1995 of 5273 Old 01-02-2009, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sk20 View Post

A review I read says the 141 is *not* doing frame interpolation when it converts 1080p/24fps to 1080p/72fps.

If it's not doing frame interpolation, then how does displaying the same frame three times in a row faster make any difference?


From a purist's point of view a simple 3x frame duplication is best. Done specifically to eliminate the flicker effect one would experience if a movie was shown at 24fps. On modern film projectors the shutter speed is typically 2x or 3x the 24FPS rate. So pioneers 3x duplication to create a 72hz frame rate without interpolation is the closest to real theater. Of course if the camera pan is fast enough you will still see image judder as the information being updated is still at the films original 24fps.

This is where some manufactures have implemented frame interpolation. Using processing to make a interpolation of where the motion is headed between the 2 original frames from the source. As you can assume when we are talking about millions of pixles with various levels of luminance and saturation the processing power required can be quite demanding.

So on fast moving scenes there may be anomolies introduced that were not in the original content. Not to mention that most that have viewed this frame interpolation say it makes film look to much like video.

Again it comes down to what you like most. Heck alot of people are ok with over compressed MP3's
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post #1996 of 5273 Old 01-02-2009, 08:06 PM
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So no one knows any way to display the FPS of the source on the 141?
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post #1997 of 5273 Old 01-02-2009, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Can't see why that would hurt anything. Just make sure you are not blocking any vent holes and the air can circulate around your 141, make sure your new 141 will not fall over.

Thanks.

Seems clear enough for ventilation although the IR sensor is blocked. I might have an extender hidden away in an old box of cables.
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post #1998 of 5273 Old 01-02-2009, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlarsen462 View Post

So no one knows any way to display the FPS of the source on the 141?

if you have it email you with the signal present it will (if I remember correctly).

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post #1999 of 5273 Old 01-02-2009, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlarsen462 View Post

So no one knows any way to display the FPS of the source on the 141?

Good question. You have stumped me.

However if you are viewing a BD film and have set Film mode to advanced and advanced is lighted, see Dot-by-Dot when you press your A/V button on your remote, Its safe to say your 141 is displaying 1080P@24fps.

Thanks Turbe, I learned something today.
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post #2000 of 5273 Old 01-02-2009, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sk20 View Post

George--get the mount from Pioneer that's specifically for the 141. We got it, and it mounts the display really close to the wall. It looks great, and improved the imaging of our speakers.

How difficult is it to mount cables? I'll need to route three 24 ga. HDMI cables through the junction box I installed for my existing NEC XR50. Hopefully the alighnment works.

Thanks.
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post #2001 of 5273 Old 01-02-2009, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlarsen462 View Post

So no one knows any way to display the FPS of the source on the 141?


Don't hold me to it but if I remember, if you double click the display info button I thought it gave some more info than the standard banner. Or maybe hold down the display info button for 5 seconds. Again this could be wrong as I am going by info from a calibration I did 2 months ago.
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post #2002 of 5273 Old 01-02-2009, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeHolland View Post

Thanks.

Seems clear enough for ventilation although the IR sensor is blocked. I might have an extender hidden away in an old box of cables.

Don't worry about the IR sensor. Just use D-Nice's break-in settings and disc.
However, when I ran my break-in on my 141 I turned contrast down to 45 and color to +15 just to be extra safe.
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post #2003 of 5273 Old 01-02-2009, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiscus View Post

Don't hold me to it but if I remember, if you double click the display info button I thought it gave some more info than the standard banner. Or maybe hold down the display info button for 5 seconds. Again this could be wrong as I am going by info from a calibration I did 2 months ago.

The display button gives you the same info as the A/V button. 1080P, dot by dot, ect. However good idea.
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post #2004 of 5273 Old 01-02-2009, 09:25 PM
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That's what I'm doing while I'm awaiting my floor stand. I'm on day 3 - non-stop.

Edit: I had to chip a bit at the styrofoam at the front to expose the remote sensor just enought for the signal to go through.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeHolland View Post

I picked up a new 141 and needed to order a bracket since my in place Peerless SmartMount SF660 Universal Flat Mount apparently doesn’t fit and I’ll need it to mount the old Plasma in a new room with it anyway.

Would I cause any problem if I tested the Monitor out while leaving it in the base of the shipping box with just the bottom Styrofoam packing? I’d like to start breaking it in over the weekend. The new bracket arrives on the 6th.

Thank you.

George

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post #2005 of 5273 Old 01-02-2009, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

if you have it email you with the signal present it will (if I remember correctly).

You remembered correctly.

"Signal 1080I 60.0"

Is the line in the email. Only slightly more cumbersome than having to set it to PC Mode like the 151.
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post #2006 of 5273 Old 01-02-2009, 11:09 PM
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"Of course if the camera pan is fast enough you will still see image judder as the information being updated is still at the films original 24fps"

That was basically my point--if the display isn't adding any intermediate frames, then the judder from 24fps will be there when displaying triplets of the same frames at 72fps.

But because my scaler can't output 72fps, it's still a win to send 24fps to the display, because my other option is 60 and that's going to be worse (and thanks to the folks on this forum for explaining that to me!).
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post #2007 of 5273 Old 01-02-2009, 11:10 PM
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"How difficult is it to mount cables? I'll need to route three 24 ga. HDMI cables through the junction box I installed for my existing NEC XR50. Hopefully the alighnment works."

It's tight! But the cables come in from the bottom on the 141, so at least you don't have to use those 90-degree adapters on the back like on the 151.

You should be able to get three HDMI cables in behind the display--it has a well for that, and an area to guide cables. The mount I was recommending is designed not to interfere with the cable areas.

You might consider the HDMI cables from bluejeanscable.com--they are smaller and easier to bend than many, are certified 1.3, and seem to be well-made.
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post #2008 of 5273 Old 01-02-2009, 11:12 PM
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"Is the line in the email. Only slightly more cumbersome than having to set it to PC Mode like the 151."

That's nuts. I don't want to have to hook up ethernet and then check my email to find out something as fundamental as this. The Pioneer engineers are many things, but GUI designers they are not.
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post #2009 of 5273 Old 01-03-2009, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sk20 View Post

"Is the line in the email. Only slightly more cumbersome than having to set it to PC Mode like the 151."

That's nuts. I don't want to have to hook up ethernet and then check my email to find out something as fundamental as this. The Pioneer engineers are many things, but GUI designers they are not.

The irony being I just found out yesterday that the 141 has the little "User Menu" that lets you change the Pro Cinema modes, much more simply than you could with the 151. The only problem is, if you're using ISF modes, it's locked anyway and you still need a laptop to change the mode.

Ah well, at least the picture is spectacular, although the "dirty screen" thing still gets to me from time to time on vertical pans with solid colors.
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post #2010 of 5273 Old 01-03-2009, 11:32 AM
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"The only problem is, if you're using ISF modes, it's locked anyway and you still need a laptop to change the mode."

Can you explain in more detail what this means?
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