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post #2011 of 5275 Old 01-03-2009, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sk20 View Post

"The only problem is, if you're using ISF modes, it's locked anyway and you still need a laptop to change the mode."

Can you explain in more detail what this means?

You simply use ControlCAL to edit/gain access to all Controls in the ISFccc Memories... friends and family won't be able to *cough* 'accidentally' change and/or delete settings in the ISFccc memories (isf Night, isf Day, isf Auto) using the remote control.

Understanding the Pioneer 9G ISFccc Interface

EDIT: The ISFccc specification (from the Imaging Science Foundation) has these memories locked.

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post #2012 of 5275 Old 01-03-2009, 12:35 PM
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Unfortunately it also means that any quick adjustments you might want to make to the ISF settings "on-the-fly" from the remote are impossible, you must hook a laptop to the display to modify ISF settings. This is in no way a shortcoming of turbe's fine product, ControlCAL, which at least makes the ISF memories accessible and usable by the average enthusiast. It's a shortcoming of the display itself, IMO, although I fully understand the reasoning for it from a professional calibrator's viewpoint.
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post #2013 of 5275 Old 01-03-2009, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlarsen462 View Post

It's a shortcoming of the display itself, IMO, although I fully understand the reasoning for it from a professional calibrator's viewpoint.

Sounds like a sleazy way to create a calibrator's guild (not that I have anything against calibrators themselves).

Pioneer should have exposed this on the regular menus. If the fear was accidental modification, password protect them from changes.
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post #2014 of 5275 Old 01-03-2009, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

i am using 3 ideal lume lights with my 141, but not with the with pioneer mount. My mount is 1.5". It would work because right behind the black bezel is enough room to put the lights even if the monitor is 100% against the wall. The only problem is that the lights are pretty close to the edge of the screen so if you view your screen form the side there will be major light hotspots.

vancouver, I'm thinking of getting these lights as well. I have a couple of questions which I'm hoping you or some other people using these might be able to answer.

My panel will be mounted on a floor stand, similar to this http://www.costco.ca/Browse/Product....A&Sp=C&topnav=
As a result, it will be around 9" away from the wall.

I'm thinking of getting the two light kit (ideal lume panelight) and either mount it top/bottom or sides - depending on how it will illuminate the surrounding area - the tv stand will be tucked in under a wooden a/v credenza.

What are your thoughts?

Did you get the light from the states or found a reseller in Canada?

By the way, you have a great setup and a killer view.

Thanks.
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post #2015 of 5275 Old 01-03-2009, 02:19 PM
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My KURO 141 ISF Calibration

Kevin Miller calibrated my panel today: it was a worthwhile experience

In choosing an ISF calibrator, I looked for someone with experience using ControlCAL on a 141 panel

Equipment included a Minolta Chroma-Meter CS200 and ControlCAL software. we used my PC with my activated ControlCAL software: this way I can make ISF setting changes myself

HDMI and component video input sources were calibrated using DVE BD on a Sony BDP-S550 BD player

The Sony contrast had to be turned down one click to prevent clipping

The BD player HDMI set at 1080p 24 was connected through a Gefen HDMI 4x4 Matrix switcher and a DVDO Edge: all of the Edge settings were set to default: we also bypassed the Gefen and Edge to be sure they were not the source of clipping or other issues: we confirmed they were not

Component video is fed from another BD player set at 1080i through a NeoPro Borrego matrix switcher : [ we also tested the other BD player HDMI 1080p 24 output and the same clipping adjustment was necessary to that player: it is interesting to note that a single click makes a noticeable difference in some settings

ControlCAL worked fine and communicated without issue: the serial port connection for remote control has to be removed to connect the PC

The results are a significant increase in brightness of the display

before calibration brightness: 33.5 FL [pure mode ]
after calibration brightness : 46.5 FL [ ISF day mode]
after calibration brightness 37.9 FL [ ISF night mode]


I prefer a punchy picture and asked Kevin to crank the Day setting to a reasonably high level without any clipping

Break in : Kevin had previous asked if panel had sufficient owner break in hours before he came out

The increase in brightness makes this calibration worthwhile to me

Thanks to Kevin Miller and ControlCAL
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post #2016 of 5275 Old 01-03-2009, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks for the comments

My thoughts are you should get two if not three lights. 9" from the wall should be fine.

I bought them direct as I dont there there are any resellers

Quote:
Originally Posted by falcon123 View Post

vancouver, I'm thinking of getting these lights as well. I have a couple of questions which I'm hoping you or some other people using these might be able to answer.

My panel will be mounted on a floor stand, similar to this http://www.costco.ca/Browse/Product....A&Sp=C&topnav=
As a result, it will be around 9" away from the wall.

I'm thinking of getting the two light kit (ideal lume panelight) and either mount it top/bottom or sides - depending on how it will illuminate the surrounding area - the tv stand will be tucked in under a wooden a/v credenza.

What are your thoughts?

Did you get the light from the states or found a reseller in Canada?

By the way, you have a great setup and a killer view.

Thanks.

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post #2017 of 5275 Old 01-03-2009, 02:25 PM
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I apologize in advance for those that don't like members quoting the post above (or close to the OP).. I just had to save this one..
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

My KURO 141 ISF Calibration

Kevin Miller calibrated my panel today: it was a worthwhile experience

In choosing an ISF calibrator, I looked for someone with experience using ControlCAL on a 141 panel

Equipment included a Minolta Chroma-Meter CS200 and ControlCAL software. we used my PC with my activated ControlCAL software: this way I can make ISF setting changes myself

HDMI and component video input sources were calibrated using DVE BD on a Sony BDP-S550 BD player set at 1080p 24

The Sony contrast had to be turned down one click to prevent clipping

The BD player was connected through a Gefen HDMI 4x4 Matrix switcher and a DVDO Edge: all of the Edge settings were set to default: we also bypassed the Gefen and Edge to be sure they were not the source of clipping or other issues: we confirmed they were not

Component video is fed from another BD player set at 1080i through a NeoPro Borrego matrix switcher : the same clipping adjustment was necessary to that player: it is interesting to note that a single click makes a noticeable difference in some settings

ControlCAL worked fine and communicated without issue: the serial port connection for remote control has to be removed to connect the PC

The results are a significant increase in brightness of the display

before calibration brightness: 33.5 FL [pure mode ]
after calibration brightness : 46.5 FL [ ISF day mode]
after calibration brightness 37.9 FL [ ISF night mode]


I prefer a punchy picture and asked Kevin to crank the Day setting to a reasonably high level without any clipping

Break in : Kevin had previous asked if panel had sufficient owner break in hours before he came out

The increase in brightness makes this calibration worthwhile to me

Thanks to Kevin Miller and ControlCAL

Thanks for your report Mark..

Hopefully you will follow-up in a few weeks too..

Quote:


I prefer a punchy picture and asked Kevin to crank the Day setting to a reasonably high level without any clipping

Yes, Mark mentioned to me in the beginning that he likes his picture punchy - more light output (including for critical viewing - isf Night)....

Need to find a Professional Calibrator? Click Here to PM me with your Display & City

Calibrator List - Pioneer ISFccc Interface

Calibration Reports - Pioneer

 

ControlCAL™
Designed by Calibrators for Calibrators™

No need to fumble through the Display's Menu with its Remote Control™

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post #2018 of 5275 Old 01-03-2009, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlarsen462 View Post

Unfortunately it also means that any quick adjustments you might want to make to the ISF settings "on-the-fly" from the remote are impossible.

Blu-ray is recorded either in 1080i/60Hz or 1080p/24Hz.

For 1080i/60, I was planning to have my scaler create 1080p/60 and feed it to the display in non-cinema mode.

For 1080p/24, I was going to send the untouched signal to the display and have the display use the cinema mode (turn it into 72Hz).

Will I have enough ISF settings to be able to switch between those two modes without connecting a laptop?
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post #2019 of 5275 Old 01-03-2009, 02:55 PM
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Some do as you want since they like setting the Pure Cinema Control OFF for 1080p60 (evein Standard for 1080i) - just depends on your needs/wants

For the Same Input:
isf Night - Pure Cinema set to Advance (for 1080p24)
isf Day - Pure Cinema set to Off (per your needs)
isf Auto - Clone of isf Night? but calibrated for more light output?

You get 3 ISFccc Memories Per Input so if you need more, use another Input on your Pioneer (fed from switch, VP etc).

Very flexible.

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post #2020 of 5275 Old 01-03-2009, 03:14 PM
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After reading extensively for the past few days, I am getting around to the calibration part while my panel is breaking in.

I am a bit torn and confused as to the options before me.

1) I can have someone come in and do a panel calibration using spyder and avia and home theatre optimization. This person won't setup ISF modes as he doesn't play with service menus. The price is very reasonable.

2) Do a full blown calibration - I guess the standard is two inputs (HDMI, component) and ISF modes. The price is much more than #1

3) Given the mounting costs of #1 and #2, maybe the route is to do it myself as some have done - sillysally and others? This cost is still more than the two options above, but maybe a better option for the future?

4) Maybe a middleground? Maybe do #1 and #2 and get ControlCAL so that I can tweak in the future?

5) Take the minimalist approach and just purchase ControlCAL and use and play with some of the setting that others have posted?

I'm pretty computer literate and have a pretty good grasp for electronics once I get into it.

I would also like to mention that I have a Pioneer Elite 74TSV a/v receiver that comes with the setup mike - is there a need for someone to optimize my home theatre and sound after the use of mike - will their setup and meters be better?

Sorry for so many questions. I'm hoping someone can provide some guidance or advice.

Thank you.
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post #2021 of 5275 Old 01-03-2009, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falcon123 View Post

This person won't setup ISF modes as he doesn't play with service menus.

The ISF Interface is not the Service Menu, cannot be accessed from the Service Menu and the Service Menu cannot be accessed from the ISF Interface - they are totally separate.

The ISF Interface is meant to be used for calibration - there are only calibration controls..

Note: The Spyder is not recommended (not to mention on a Plasma).. look at Xrite's options (Chroma 5 or I1 Pro preferably for a Plasma, many Pros use 1 or both of these) if your friend or you want to go the DIY route...

Many start with posted settings - some then get additional equipment/software for the DIY route or hire a Professional (I do recommend you consider DIY or hiring a PRO to get the most from your Display)..

If you hire a Pro, make sure you watch the entire process, take notes even ask questions... great way (even a jumpstart) to learning techniques for calibrating your display. Most Professionals are more than happy/willing to answer questions and explain the steps/techniques during calibration with you (some even require you to do this..)

Need to find a Professional Calibrator? Click Here to PM me with your Display & City

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post #2022 of 5275 Old 01-03-2009, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

Some do as you want since they like setting the Pure Cinema Control OFF for 1080p60 (evein Standard for 1080i) - just depends on your needs/wants

For the Same Input:
isf Night - Pure Cinema set to Advance (for 1080p24)
isf Day - Pure Cinema set to Off (per your needs)
isf Auto - Clone of isf Night? but calibrated for more light output?

You get 3 ISFccc Memories Per Input so if you need more, use another Input on your Pioneer (fed from switch, VP etc).

Very flexible.

Thank you! I think three should be enough--we mostly only watch at night, so I can have Advance and off for night, and something for day. Not sure what the something should be--probably off.
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post #2023 of 5275 Old 01-03-2009, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sk20 View Post

Advance and off for night

Well, the Pure Cinema Control can only be set to Off, Standard, Advance or Smooth in each Memory..

I'm not sure what you mean by 'Advance and off for night'

EDIT: NVM - You are saying, watching at night, you would use both memories (isf Night, isf Day) depending on source Input (1080p/24 or 1080p/60).... you still have isf Auto and you could also use that to bump up the light output if you wanted just in case you watch something during the day, windows open, lights on etc...


My example above put Pure Cinema Advance on isf Night and Pure Cinema Off on isf Day.

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post #2024 of 5275 Old 01-03-2009, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

I'm not sure what you mean by 'Advance and off for night'.

Sorry--that was shorthand for one setting advance, another setting off, and both intended to be watched at night.
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post #2025 of 5275 Old 01-03-2009, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlarsen462 View Post

Unfortunately it also means that any quick adjustments you might want to make to the ISF settings "on-the-fly" from the remote are impossible, you must hook a laptop to the display to modify ISF settings. .

Some one somewhere must know the passowrd to get into the ISF settings via the web server.

If anyone finds out PLEASE send me a PM with it. I have had my display calibrated with ControlCal, but I would like to be able to change the Cinema mode form time to time.
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post #2026 of 5275 Old 01-03-2009, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

EDIT: NVM - You are saying, watching at night, you would use both memories (isf Night, isf Day) depending on source Input (1080p/24 or 1080p/60).... you still have isf Auto and you could also use that to bump up the light output if you wanted just in case you watch something during the day, windows open, lights on etc...


My example above put Pure Cinema Advance on isf Night and Pure Cinema Off on isf Day.

Thanks again--I'll do it that way when I have it calibrated.
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post #2027 of 5275 Old 01-03-2009, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

Some one somewhere must know the passowrd to get into the ISF settings via the web server.

If anyone finds out PLEASE send me a PM with it.

Me too, if it's possible.

But he calibration firmware in the display reads from a serial port. Does it even have a browser interface?
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post #2028 of 5275 Old 01-03-2009, 04:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sk20 View Post

Me too, if it's possible.

But he calibration firmware in the display reads from a serial port. Does it even have a browser interface?

i think so....there is a place on the web serve to enter ISF mode, but it requires a password. I dont get how its possible no one ones that password? Why is it such a secret? who is meant to have it?
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post #2029 of 5275 Old 01-03-2009, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falcon123 View Post

After reading extensively for the past few days, I am getting around to the calibration part while my panel is breaking in.

I am a bit torn and confused as to the options before me.

.

Just to add to what Turbe is saying.

I am a DIY guy. I have a I1Pro, Calman and Controlcal. I got my I1Pro and Calman in May of 08. Stated to learn how to calibrate on my 150. When I replaced my 150 with a 141 I was really amazed on how much different the 141 was to calibrate than the 150. Also it was much harder to calibrate because I didn't have D-Nices settings anymore for my 141. And no guides to help calibrate a 141 , so I was totally on my own. It took me many many hours to finally understand how to calibrate a 141.
The only thing that didn't take me long to figure out was to use Controlcal and calibrate my 141 in ISF mode. My results are better in ISF mode.

I highly recommend using ISF mode. And that means you will have to get a key from Turbe to use Controlcal along with a cable (all for about the cost of a new BD). Here is a link to my posted ISF night settings for use with BDP-35/55. However they should work with other BD players, just not as well. Also view my ISF calibration report and learn what the numbers mean. If you want to compare calibration reports there is a report from umr in this thread.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post15333328
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post #2030 of 5275 Old 01-03-2009, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

i think so....there is a place on the web serve to enter ISF mode, but it requires a password. I dont get how its possible no one ones that password? Why is it such a secret? who is meant to have it?

Even if, and that is a big if you got that password you would still need a interface program to understand what the settings are for. All of the top ISF calibrators that I know of all use Controlcal. Why is that?
The hole idea using ISFccc is to use ISF calibrated settings. If you just have some DVD like AVI or DVE and think you are going to come up with the right ISF settings, you better think some more.

And yes I know in your case you have had your 141 Calibrated, but understand like markrubin said in his post that even a small change in your settings can make a big differences.
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post #2031 of 5275 Old 01-03-2009, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobp View Post

It appears that I cannot show 720p on my 141FD with a SC05 receiver. I do pass the 1080p/24 test, but 720p resolution is not working even though I have the DTV receiver set to Native mode.

Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong..

Thanks.

bump

Jacob P.
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post #2032 of 5275 Old 01-03-2009, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

I have had my display calibrated with ControlCal, but I would like to be able to change the Cinema mode form time to time.

Well, it wouldn't do you any good for that...

I've posted this many times before.. the Web Interface has limited Controls..

There is no Pure Cinema Control via the Web Interface. The Web Interface does not have:

9-Point Gamma Controls, Colorspace Control, Pure Cinema Control, CMS Controls, Black Level Control, CTI Control, ACL Control, 3DYC Control, I-P Mode Control, Text Optimization Control, Intelligent Mode Control, DRE Picture Control, Enhancer Control, Blue Only Mode Control and all the Filter Controls.

These 3 are very important: Colorspace Control, Pure Cinema Control and the CMS Controls.

ControlCAL is the only application that has complete support. As for as ControlCAL with TCP/IP Support - stay tuned..

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post #2033 of 5275 Old 01-03-2009, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobp View Post

It appears that I cannot show 720p on my 141FD with a SC05 receiver. I do pass the 1080p/24 test, but 720p resolution is not working even though I have the DTV receiver set to Native mode.

Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong..

Thanks.

I am not sure what you mean by passing the test.

Your 141 has a native resolution of 1080P so I would say your 141 is simple up scaling you 720P resolution signal to its native resolution of 1080P.
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post #2034 of 5275 Old 01-03-2009, 07:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Even if, and that is a big if you got that password you would still need a interface program to understand what the settings are for. All of the top ISF calibrators that I know of all use Controlcal. Why is that?
The hole idea using ISFccc is to use ISF calibrated settings. If you just have some DVD like AVI or DVE and think you are going to come up with the right ISF settings, you better think some more.

And yes I know in your case you have had your 141 Calibrated, but understand like markrubin said in his post that even a small change in your settings can make a big differences.

How do you know the web server doesnt have the interface built in?

Also my display has already been calibrated. All I want to change is the Cinema settings. Im sure once you are in that would be easy to change.
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post #2035 of 5275 Old 01-03-2009, 07:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

Well, it wouldn't do you any good for that...

I've posted this many times before.. the Web Interface has limited Controls..

There is no Pure Cinema Control via the Web Interface. The Web Interface does not have:

9-Point Gamma Controls, Colorspace Control, Pure Cinema Control, CMS Controls, Black Level Control, CTI Control, ACL Control, 3DYC Control, I-P Mode Control, Text Optimization Control, Intelligent Mode Control, DRE Picture Control, Enhancer Control, Blue Only Mode Control and all the Filter Controls.

These 3 are very important: Colorspace Control, Pure Cinema Control and the CMS Controls.

ControlCAL is the only application that has complete support. As for as ControlCAL with TCP/IP Support - stay tuned..

interesting....so what exactly is behind the ISF password? What can you change in ISF mode if you got into it via the web server? Personally I think not allowing to change not calibration settings for ISF is strange...and annoying. Pure Cinema has nothing to do with calibration so why block it?
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post #2036 of 5275 Old 01-03-2009, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

Pure Cinema has nothing to do with calibration so why block it?

It's not that it's blocked, there simply is no Pure Cinema Control available in that Interface.

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Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

What can you change in ISF mode if you got into it via the web server?

Contrast, Brightness, Color, Tint, Sharpness, Color Temp, RGB Highs/Lows.

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Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

Personally I think not allowing to change not calibration settings for ISF is strange...

But you can, as many do with ControlCAL..of course, if you want to change an ISF Memory's PC setting via Winsock and not using the Serial Interface, you will have to wait until I release that support

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post #2037 of 5275 Old 01-03-2009, 08:43 PM
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Just my 2 cents but not only is it nice to use the ControlCal interface to enable and adjust the ISF settings with the proper meters.

But the ease of performing adjustments when set up to do so makes one wish that the ability to adjust the other modes (User, pure, movie etc) via the ControlCal interface would be a feature added in the future.

Have had no problems using ControlCal on Pioneer 150, 111, 151 and 141's. Keep up the good work Turbe.
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post #2038 of 5275 Old 01-03-2009, 09:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post


But you can, as many do with ControlCAL..of course, if you want to change an ISF Memory's PC setting via Winsock and not using the Serial Interface, you will have to wait until I release that support

I did have ControlCal used on my display and of course the result was perfection. I, however, made an error, or at least thought at the time I should set all my Pure Cinema settings for Day, Night and Auto to Smooth, because I prefer the effect. This was a mistake because sometimes I do, and sometimes I dont, and above all i like to play around with settings.


I am not sure what "PC settings via Winsock" means but if its simple ill buy in. The problem I have is my centre channel is blocking the serial port so I have to remove and unplug every time. I need something I can use to change ISF on the fly with simply using my remote or the web server.
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post #2039 of 5275 Old 01-03-2009, 09:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post


Contrast, Brightness, Color, Tint, Sharpness, Color Temp, RGB Highs/Lows.

Do you know why the Cinema settings are locked in ISF? What is the reason behind that?
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post #2040 of 5275 Old 01-03-2009, 09:13 PM
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Pioneer 9G Elite Monitor 141 ISF-Night Settings.
I used a Toshiba HD-A35 for these settings
Frame Rate Auto, Resolution , up to 1080p/24Hz

Picture Settings:
AV Selection: ISF-Night
Contrast: 23
Brightness:+2
Color: +3
Tint: 0
Sharpness: -15

Pure Cinema: 2 (Advance)
Black Level: 0 (Off)
CTI: 0 (Off)
Color Space: 2
Color Temp: 6 (Manual)
Screen size 0 (Dot By Dot)

ACL: 0 (Off)
3DYC: 2
I-P Mode: 2
Text Optimization: 0 (Off)
Intelligent Mode: 0 (Off)
DRE Picture: 0 (Off)

Enhancer Mode: 1
Block NR: 0 (Off)
3DNR: 0 (Off)
Field NR: 0 (Off)
Mosquito NR: 0 (Off)

Power Save Mode: Off
Orbiter: Mode 0

RGB Controls
R High: +4
G High: 0
B High: +14
R Low: -3
G Low: 0
B Low:-4

Color Management
R: -3
Y: +2
G: 0
C: 0
B: +3
M: 0

Gamma
10%R 0
10%G 0
10%B 0
20%R 0
20%G 0
20%B 0
30%R 0
30%G 0
30%B 0
40%R 0
40%G 0
40%B 0
50%R 0
50%G 0
50%B 0
60%R 0
60%G 0
60%B 0
70%R 0
70%G 0
70%B 0
80%R 0
80%G 0
80%B 0
90%R 0
90%G 0
90%B 0

Template by D-Nice

Links to more ISF settings.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post15333328

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post15546767

 

SillySally HD-A35 01-18-09 Graypdf.pdf 161.2392578125k . file

 

SillySally HD-A35 01-18-09 Color.pdf 154.4833984375k . file
Attached Files
File Type: pdf SillySally HD-A35 01-18-09 Color.pdf (154.5 KB, 0 views)
File Type: pdf SillySally HD-A35 01-18-09 Graypdf.pdf (161.2 KB, 1 views)
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