The Official Pioneer 9G North American KRP-500M / KRP-600M Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 110 - AVS Forum
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post #3271 of 4963 Old 06-12-2009, 08:04 PM
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600m is here and I have a couple questions regarding breakin:

I see that D-Nice will post breakin settings for the KRPs--what thread will they appear in? For now I am using the 151 settings as others seem to recommend.

This has probably been discussed, but I can't seem to find the info. Does the breakin DVD have the very same images as the Thumbdrive Files? I am using the DVD for the 600M but used the Thumbdrive files for our 5020. The colors seem a bit different on the DVD.
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post #3272 of 4963 Old 06-12-2009, 11:17 PM
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600m When watching with dot by dot I noticed with some stations that a small line appears from the top of the screeen to the bottom close to the edge of the screen. Sometimes on the left or the right. Could this be an issue with the cable box? It doesn't show up with any of the other screen choices, or blu-ray.

Thanks for any input.

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post #3273 of 4963 Old 06-13-2009, 03:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kennelm View Post

Finally, I am just about ready to mount my 600M. I have the Peerless SF670 mount, and I noticed that the mounting plate (that bolts to the wall) will be positioned several inches lower than the center point of the panel. The mounting brackets that bolt to the TV can only be put on one way, due to the position of the mounting holes.

Has anyone else noticed how low this mount sits, and is this a problem? It just seems like the mount should be up a little higher, relative to the panel itself...

Yes, I thought the same thing. It's unfortunate that the mount wasn't designed to be in the center or upper portion of the TV. Nevertheless, this mount is rated at 250 pounds...the TV weighs about 150 or so.

Once it is mounted it is solid and not going anywhere. It locks in nicely and you won't have any problems provided everything else is bolted on properly.

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post #3274 of 4963 Old 06-13-2009, 03:11 AM
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Originally Posted by screener View Post

600m When watching with dot by dot I noticed with some stations that a small line appears from the top of the screeen to the bottom close to the edge of the screen. Sometimes on the left or the right. Could this be an issue with the cable box? It doesn't show up with any of the other screen choices, or blu-ray.

I have this sometimes as well...I use an over the air antenna. I usually only see it at the top of the screen.
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post #3275 of 4963 Old 06-13-2009, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by JC480 View Post

Yes, I thought the same thing. It's unfortunate that the mount wasn't designed to be in the center or upper portion of the TV. Nevertheless, this mount is rated at 250 pounds...the TV weighs about 150 or so.

Once it is mounted it is solid and not going anywhere. It locks in nicely and you won't have any problems provided everything else is bolted on properly.

Glad to see I am not the only one thinking this. I agree that the mount is rated for this panel, but still...

I am taking down my 5070 and putting up the 600M in the same location. The old mount sits a few inches higher than the SF670 will sit. Plus, the height of the 5070 is much less than the 600M. I would have expected the new mount to sit a little higher than the old one.

It just seems like the mount is so low, there will be more torsional force at the top of the panel, pulling it and the mount away from the wall.
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post #3276 of 4963 Old 06-13-2009, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by kennelm View Post

It just seems like the mount is so low, there will be more torsional force at the top of the panel, pulling it and the mount away from the wall.

I thought the same thing. Even installed the mount upside down to see if I could get away with it but realized it wouldn't be secure once it was on back of the TV.

It is rock solid, though.
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post #3277 of 4963 Old 06-13-2009, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chargedmr2 View Post

600m is here and I have a couple questions regarding breakin:

I see that D-Nice will post breakin settings for the KRPs--what thread will they appear in? For now I am using the 151 settings as others seem to recommend.

This has probably been discussed, but I can't seem to find the info. Does the breakin DVD have the very same images as the Thumbdrive Files? I am using the DVD for the 600M but used the Thumbdrive files for our 5020. The colors seem a bit different on the DVD.

They are located in post 1 of the 9G Settings/Issues thread.
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post #3278 of 4963 Old 06-13-2009, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

If you change gamma the three PG values change.

Sorry for being dense, but I am still trying to understand this. In your table, you have 1 PG value for each Mode/menu-gamma# (e.g., Pure Gamma2=16), but here you say that 3 PG values change for each Gamma setting in the menu. Are there three PG values (I assume R,G,&B) and that equates to "16" in the documentation?

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If you change the individual PG parameters the picture clearly changes but the Gamma setting does not.

So using bash script, you are able to write values back to the display? And the values revert back when you turn off the display or change resolutions?
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post #3279 of 4963 Old 06-13-2009, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC480 View Post

I thought the same thing. Even installed the mount upside down to see if I could get away with it but realized it wouldn't be secure once it was on back of the TV.

It is rock solid, though.

I have a slightly different Sanus mount on my 600M and the wall plate is higher than the center of the screen. Same type of attachment to wall plate as shown above. I agree that it is absolutely rock solid when it is on the wall. Just a problem if you don't notice the issue - as my husband and friend did not - and you end up with your 600M a foot lower than it should be. So now I'm spackling and painting the original holes.
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post #3280 of 4963 Old 06-13-2009, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by bamboo5354 View Post

Hi I wanted to post an update of the stuck pixel on my 500M it is not so stuck after all.

This is what I have seen
On White its Red
On Green its Black
On Blue Its Blue
On Red its Red
On Black its Black

Stuck? dead? half dead? lol anyone have any ideas?

Hey guys! want to post an update on my dead pixel problem.

No help from pioneer or the dealer no house call fee for the pioneer tech.

Now I guess I'll just have to learn to live with it. Good thing is I can't see it from my sitting area. Even on movies with solid colors like "Persepolis" and "Sin City". I wish it will rise from the grave again....
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post #3281 of 4963 Old 06-13-2009, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bamboo5354 View Post

Hey guys! want to post an update on my dead pixel problem.

No help from pioneer or the dealer no house call fee for the pioneer tech.

Now I guess I'll just have to learn to live with it. Good thing is I can't see it from my sitting area. Even on movies with solid colors like "Persepolis" and "Sin City". I wish it will rise from the grave again....

Did you perform break-in or is this right out of the box?

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post #3282 of 4963 Old 06-13-2009, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

They are located in post 1 of the 9G Settings/Issues thread.

Thanks D-Nice. I just updated the setting for the remaining 140 hours.

Can I assume that turning off the power save mode for 600m is referred to as Energy Save Mode: Standard?
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post #3283 of 4963 Old 06-13-2009, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chargedmr2 View Post

Can I assume that turning off the power save mode for 600m is referred to as Energy Save Mode: Standard?

Yes, Standard=Off.
(off topic)Based on you user ID, do you own an 88 or 89 Supercharged M2? My 91 MR2 Turbo is still going strong after 18 years..
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post #3284 of 4963 Old 06-13-2009, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by J0HNNY H0PK1NS View Post

Did you perform break-in or is this right out of the box?

It's 1 week old. I haven't done any break-in.
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post #3285 of 4963 Old 06-13-2009, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by bamboo5354 View Post

It's 1 week old. I haven't done any break-in.

Well if there are no other options enjoy it as best you can.

However I myself would not take "no" for an answer from the retailer. Regardless of policy speak with the manager, the owner if you cant deal with it. I for one would be if I had any defect right out of the box, and more if it was the one thing that they choose not to cover.

I believe that the policy on dead or stuck pixels should only apply to a unit older then say, 1 month or more. I understand that Plasmas are susceptible to these things but if you went to the store and bought a $3 bag of bread and when you get home, open the packaging and there's mold on it, should this not be covered by the store because bread is inherintly susceptible to mold?

Thats bread but this is a $$$$ Pioneer monitor that is supposed to last us years(supposed)

bad comparison but hopefully you get my drift

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post #3286 of 4963 Old 06-13-2009, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kennelm View Post

Finally, I am just about ready to mount my 600M. I have the Peerless SF670 mount, and I noticed that the mounting plate (that bolts to the wall) will be positioned several inches lower than the center point of the panel. The mounting brackets that bolt to the TV can only be put on one way, due to the position of the mounting holes.

Has anyone else noticed how low this mount sits, and is this a problem? It just seems like the mount should be up a little higher, relative to the panel itself...

This is done intentionally for a very good reason. You want more room behind the display from the center line up if you're tilting the display down the maximum 15 degrees. What would you want to put behind the screen? If your installtion is like mine, a surge protector and power outlet. Mounted, it's also easier to install bias lighting later. With the mount centered, there would be significantly less room above the mount to do these things. That 2.5 " makes a big difference.
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post #3287 of 4963 Old 06-13-2009, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by chargedmr2 View Post

Thanks D-Nice. I just updated the setting for the remaining 140 hours.

Can I assume that turning off the power save mode for 600m is referred to as Energy Save Mode: Standard?

Sorry for the off topic response:

Used to own 1987 MR2--wanted to get an 1988 or 89 supercharged MR2, but couldn't swing it back then. It was a great car though!

And now back to the Kuros...
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post #3288 of 4963 Old 06-13-2009, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bamboo5354 View Post

Hey guys! want to post an update on my dead pixel problem.

No help from pioneer or the dealer no house call fee for the pioneer tech.

Now I guess I'll just have to learn to live with it. Good thing is I can't see it from my sitting area. Even on movies with solid colors like "Persepolis" and "Sin City". I wish it will rise from the grave again....

Glad you're OK with it. I used the "don't ask the question if you can't stand the answer" philosophy. The answer being if you have a problem, there's nothing you can do about it. Even though, at my viewing distance of 12 ft I'd never notice it, I know it would have bothered me, so I didn't look. I have no idea if I lost any pixels.
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post #3289 of 4963 Old 06-13-2009, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chargedmr2 View Post

Thanks D-Nice. I just updated the setting for the remaining 140 hours.

Can I assume that turning off the power save mode for 600m is referred to as Energy Save Mode: Standard?

Correct. Ill fix that typo later. Also make sure you use colorspace 1 and not 2. Another typo.
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post #3290 of 4963 Old 06-13-2009, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Correct. Ill fix that typo later. Also make sure you use colorspace 1 and not 2. Another typo.

I am currently in the process of just starting up my 150 hour Break-In with your recommended settings. I also had a quick 600M question like the ones above.

I am using a PS3 with a USB thumbdrive containing Evangelo2's files. Once the slideshow is playing I can either select FULL1 or FULL2 rather than FULL. If I understand correctly FULL2 is stretched vertically. Any preference for one over the other?
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post #3291 of 4963 Old 06-13-2009, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Correct. Ill fix that typo later. Also make sure you use colorspace 1 and not 2. Another typo.

Its here!!! Its here!!!...I finally got my 500M delivered on monday evening and i immediately switched the input from the 1080p vizio i bought to hold me over till the kuro arrived (i calibrated it with S&M disc)...and the PQ was jaw dropping (as expected)...so i packed the vizio to the side and went through the various modes

Dynamic, Movie, Pure were unwatchable to me out of the box...I mean pure and movie was just crap and am not referring to it being dim, everything looked washed out and terrible. Dynamic should be renamed blue mode, nough said!

I loved standard and user mode (they looked exactly the same)optimum, game and sport are modes i'll doubt i'll ever use. So i tried to calibrate pure with the S&m disc that came with my oppo 83 and worked wonders for the vizio....the result was still crap!. Then I entered elite home's settings in to pure...it wasn't crap, but it was bad (all this time i've been using standard to watch my movies and loving it)...that's when i remembered that i've not done the break in and thus might affect the result of elite home's settings. So I started the break in on wed and by friday i swear the pic quality was a lot better, the black were better and inkier...either that or i need to see a psychiatrist for my mind is playing tricks on me.

Anyway i choose to reset pure and calitrate it using Avs disc...and the result was just great...well a lot better and actually very watchable for me. I also inserted elite home's pure settings into user for my amusement ..and i actually kind of liked it. But I have a couple of questions for Dnice (or anyone)

1) I read somewhere that the 500m were broken in from the factory for a 100hrs so they only need 50 hrs break in. does that mean i only have to break it in for 50hrs? (as am typing this I just clocked hour 49 i adjusted the color and gamma to new setting on hr 47)

2)Am now leaning toward getting professional calibation done, cause i think for me to love pure mode i might need to have it pro calibrated, but the decision is pending till after break in. my question is this, do u think pro calibration can remove the dirty white in pure mode, and that very slight dirty "tint" or should i call it "thin vail" or "overlay" I see in pure mode? and ofcourse the light output (minor issue).

3) Is it actually possible for PQ to improve so much so soon after the break in process (about 35hrs) or is my mind playing tricks on me?..The forbidden kingdom looked AMAZING!!!

For those who would think am just one of those ppl who dislikes ISF like or "accurate" pictures, let me say that the best PQ i ever seen b4 the 9G Kuros is from an ISF calibrated PRO-FHD1 in magnolia...it was breathtaking. So i have no problems with accurate or isf setting but the pure i see i far from it out of the box contrary to all the reviews i read from different publications. Thanks in advance for your response and sorry for the long post!

The Tyrant, the Rebel, and the Hero share the same creed...."TO LIVE IS TO ACT"
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post #3292 of 4963 Old 06-13-2009, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim McCune View Post

Glad you're OK with it. I used the "don't ask the question if you can't stand the answer" philosophy. The answer being if you have a problem, there's nothing you can do about it. Even though, at my viewing distance of 12 ft I'd never notice it, I know it would have bothered me, so I didn't look. I have no idea if I lost any pixels.

It does bothered me a little but I tend to forgot about it when watching a movie or playing a game.
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post #3293 of 4963 Old 06-13-2009, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by bamboo5354 View Post

It does bothered me a little but I tend to forgot about it when watching a movie or playing a game.

That's the spirit.
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post #3294 of 4963 Old 06-13-2009, 04:55 PM
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How can I program my 600m remote to control the audio from my Anthem pre/pro? The manual says the remote can "learn", but I can't seem to figure out how to (or if I can) do it.
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post #3295 of 4963 Old 06-13-2009, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdbimmer View Post

Are there three PG values (I assume R,G,&B) and that equates to "16" in the documentation?

All three pg* values are set to the same value when the gamma setting is changed.
Quote:


So using bash script, you are able to write values back to the display? And the values revert back when you turn off the display or change resolutions?

Yes and yes.
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post #3296 of 4963 Old 06-13-2009, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Correct. Ill fix that typo later. Also make sure you use colorspace 1 and not 2. Another typo.

D-Nice,

Just double checking--Orbiter should be set to off instead of mode 1 like the 151? What does this do for break-in...just curious?
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post #3297 of 4963 Old 06-13-2009, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Correct. Ill fix that typo later. Also make sure you use colorspace 1 and not 2. Another typo.

FYI-It already says to use colorspace 1.
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post #3298 of 4963 Old 06-13-2009, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chargedmr2 View Post

D-Nice,

Just double checking--Orbiter should be set to off instead of mode 1 like the 151? What does this do for break-in...just curious?

The orbiter should be left off.
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post #3299 of 4963 Old 06-13-2009, 08:11 PM
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FYI-It already says to use colorspace 1.

FYI FYI- he edited it

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post #3300 of 4963 Old 06-13-2009, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docmal View Post

D-Nice,
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. I know you are the Kuro authority on this forum and I appreciate your input but I believe you are mistaken about the proper settings in this instance.

My logic makes sense and I have thoroughly tested my hypothesis. Setting the system my way produces the exact same black levels in movies without crush as your settings with the following benefits:
  • True 0-255 RGB (PC Levels) on games
  • Keep the Kuro on auto which will allow the kuro to switch its colorspace based on input
  • You will be able to see Blacker than Black on the DVE disk when your PS3 is outputting YrPB 4:4:4, whereas you cannot see Blacker than black with your settings.
  • The PS3 does not have to encode the color information from your BD into the RGB colorspace, it instead can use the native YrPb colorspace.
I suggest you test these settings yourself using the latest PS3 firmware. I have run tests and can reproduce the effect of crushing blacks and greying blacks by altering these settings:

Crushed:
Kuro: RGB 16-235
PS3:
RGB
Full
Superwhite doesn't matter

Greyed Blacks:
Kuro: RGB 0-255 or Auto
PS#:
RGB
limited
Superwhite doesn't matter
Here is the error when the Kuro is set to Auto it doesnt pick up the PS3 limited setting, my theory is that the PS3 is compressing 0-255 levels into 16-235 but still sending BTB and WTW information ie 0-15 and 236-255, thus tricking the Kuro into seeing 0-255.

Thought I would weigh in on the debate about the correct PS3/Kuro settings combo. I've confirmed docmal's crushed/greyed blacks findings. And to my eyes, all of the following settings result in the same black performance for DVD/BD:
1. PS3: "Auto" or "YPb..." -- Kuro: Auto
2. PS3: "RGB", "Full" -- Kuro: Auto
3. PS3: "RGB", "Limited" -- Kuro: RGB 16-235 (D-Nice's recommendation)

For those who aren't familiar with the PS3 menus, the first setting (Auto, YPb..., RGB) is "BD/DVD Video Output Format" under the Video Settings menu. And the second setting (Full, Limited) is "RGB Full Range" under the Display Settings menu.

The deciding factor for me is my cable box. In order to get black blacks while watching TV, I have to set the Kuro to RGB 16-235. I can't leave it on Auto. For that reason, I'm using combo #3 which lets me switch between TV and DVD/BD without having to change the RGB setting on the Kuro.

The tradeoff is the color space isn't correct for games. But I watch a lot more TV than games so it makes sense to optimize for TV/DVD/BD.

One note: some people have mentioned that when switching the settings on the PS3, sometimes the PS3 menu will change from black to gray (assuming you're doing this at night). But this is only temporary. If you play a DVD or restart the system, the menu will go back to black.
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