The Official Pioneer 9G North American KRP-500M / KRP-600M Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 111 - AVS Forum
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post #3301 of 4963 Old 06-14-2009, 02:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by St LEGEND View Post

Its here!!! Its here!!!...I finally got my 500M delivered on monday evening and i immediately switched the input from the 1080p vizio i bought to hold me over till the kuro arrived (i calibrated it with S&M disc)...and the PQ was jaw dropping (as expected)...so i packed the vizio to the side and went through the various modes

Dynamic, Movie, Pure were unwatchable to me out of the box...I mean pure and movie was just crap and am not referring to it being dim, everything looked washed out and terrible. Dynamic should be renamed blue mode, nough said!

I loved standard and user mode (they looked exactly the same)optimum, game and sport are modes i'll doubt i'll ever use. So i tried to calibrate pure with the S&m disc that came with my oppo 83 and worked wonders for the vizio....the result was still crap!. Then I entered elite home's settings in to pure...it wasn't crap, but it was bad (all this time i've been using standard to watch my movies and loving it)...that's when i remembered that i've not done the break in and thus might affect the result of elite home's settings. So I started the break in on wed and by friday i swear the pic quality was a lot better, the black were better and inkier...either that or i need to see a psychiatrist for my mind is playing tricks on me.

Anyway i choose to reset pure and calitrate it using Avs disc...and the result was just great...well a lot better and actually very watchable for me. I also inserted elite home's pure settings into user for my amusement ..and i actually kind of liked it. But I have a couple of questions for Dnice (or anyone)

1) I read somewhere that the 500m were broken in from the factory for a 100hrs so they only need 50 hrs break in. does that mean i only have to break it in for 50hrs? (as am typing this I just clocked hour 49 i adjusted the color and gamma to new setting on hr 47)

2)Am now leaning toward getting professional calibation done, cause i think for me to love pure mode i might need to have it pro calibrated, but the decision is pending till after break in. my question is this, do u think pro calibration can remove the dirty white in pure mode, and that very slight dirty "tint" or should i call it "thin vail" or "overlay" I see in pure mode? and ofcourse the light output (minor issue).

3) Is it actually possible for PQ to improve so much so soon after the break in process (about 35hrs) or is my mind playing tricks on me?..The forbidden kingdom looked AMAZING!!!

For those who would think am just one of those ppl who dislikes ISF like or "accurate" pictures, let me say that the best PQ i ever seen b4 the 9G Kuros is from an ISF calibrated PRO-FHD1 in magnolia...it was breathtaking. So i have no problems with accurate or isf setting but the pure i see i far from it out of the box contrary to all the reviews i read from different publications. Thanks in advance for your response and sorry for the long post!

Dnice?...Anyone?

The Tyrant, the Rebel, and the Hero share the same creed...."TO LIVE IS TO ACT"
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post #3302 of 4963 Old 06-14-2009, 05:35 AM
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Got my 600M mounted and I started the break-in procedure as described here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post14384866

I may have missed this in the pages and pages of discussion, but what should I do if I want to watch some regular TV as I complete the ~100 hrs of break-in? The break-in page warns against using those settings for any content other than the break-in DVD. It would be a pain to be constantly changing the settings back and forth, depending on whether I am watching regular TV, or getting in a few hours of break-in.

Please advise.
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post #3303 of 4963 Old 06-14-2009, 08:21 AM
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Hi All,
Whew! I have just finished plowing through this entire thread.

Thank you all for all the great info!

I have been very happy with my 4280 using the D-Nice Movie mode settings since August of 2007 and haven't really looked at this forum much since then.

Imagine my surprise when I took a look last week to see what was going on and found that a) Pioneer is leaving the Plasma business and b) Because of this unfortunate event, I could, if I act quickly, now get the full 1080P 50" Kuro that I wanted originally but couldn't afford, for a few hundred less than I paid for the 4280!

My local dealer had one 500M left in the box (build date November 2008) and they are due to deliver it next week. I went to the store yesterday and we unboxed it to be sure there were no cracks and powered it up on their house feed for a few minutes. All seems well and I can't wait till next week!

I will be using the break-in DVD and D-Nice break-in settings (Thank You D-Nice once again!) and have ordered the S&M "visual calibration" disc.

I am still a little confused though about the proper settings for using the PS3 considering the M's "Auto" bug..

See my post a little later on for questions about this.

Thanks,

--Mark--
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post #3304 of 4963 Old 06-14-2009, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus_CA View Post

FYI-It already says to use colorspace 1.

so when calibrating user and standard, we SHOULD use color space 1? im going to try to make a run at these modes today and thought this was odd. does anyone think that colorspace 2 is the reason no one can correctly set color on their m series with a calibration disc? ill try and test this out today.
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post #3305 of 4963 Old 06-14-2009, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

I mounted a pair of 111 speakers on my 500M.

They do not fit out of the box. They are too far forward and the brackets do not match up.

To mount them I needed:
  • 4 M5x16 bolts to screw into the plasma
  • 4 1/4 inch nylon standoffs
  • 4 washers to get a yunt more to make the speaker flush.

The top bracket can be left alone and the bottom bracket needs the hole expanded about 1/4 inch. We used a Dremel and a carbide bit. It was not hard. If you make the top flush, the bottom speakers are just a hair short. This seems to be as designed. My Friends 151 speakers do are just a bit short too.

Images:
PioScrews - Shows the parts and the black original screw.
BottomRightBracket - shows the original right bracket.
BottomLeftOverBottomRight - shows the right altered bracket with the unaltered left.
TopLeft - shows the top of the left speaker mounted.
BottomLeft - shows the bottom left speaker mounted.
FullView - is the finished product.

Of course, you could Dremel out the top a yunt to split the difference.
But I think they look great.

So how do they sound. Just fine!
I turned them up louder than I ever would - no problem.

- Rich

Thanks Rich for the post and the pm. I would like to say that I purchased a pair of Pioneer SMW2026-A speakers on e-bay and mounted them on my 600M without any alterations needed. There is another pair on e-bay now if anyone is interested. Hope this helps those who are looking for a speaker solution.
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post #3306 of 4963 Old 06-14-2009, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whityfrd View Post

so when calibrating user and standard, we SHOULD use color space 1? im going to try to make a run at these modes today and thought this was odd. does anyone think that colorspace 2 is the reason no one can correctly set color on their m series with a calibration disc? ill try and test this out today.

He was referring to using CS1 when running the break-in images. After break-in, use ColorSpace 2.
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post #3307 of 4963 Old 06-14-2009, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim McCune View Post

Thanks Rich for the post and the pm. I would like to say that I purchased a pair of Pioneer SMW2026-A speakers on e-bay and mounted them on my 600M without any alterations needed. There is another pair on e-bay now if anyone is interested. Hope this helps those who are looking for a speaker solution.

The only thing I would recommend is putting a small 1/8'' thk spacer between the bracket and TV. Currently the SMW2026 speakers sit a little fwd of the panel and would look a lot better when its all flush.

BTW, anyone who would buy those speakers as they sit right now on ebay is out of their mind. I think it was worth the $50 or so that I spent, but certainly not $400!!!! I would wait for another pair to pop up, they show up every once in a while. Didn't someone say there was another speaker that would fit?
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post #3308 of 4963 Old 06-14-2009, 09:37 AM
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For those of you who prefer using Blue-Only mode and a pattern to set Color/Tint, you may want to recheck it if you set DRE on. On my display in Pure mode with Contrast @38, the Blue-Only method results in a Color setting of 10 with DRE off. With DRE on Low, this method results in a Color setting of 7.
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post #3309 of 4963 Old 06-14-2009, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by St LEGEND View Post

1) I read somewhere that the 500m were broken in from the factory for a 100hrs so they only need 50 hrs break in.

The Official Pioneer 9G Kuro Settings/Issues Thread, which was just recently edited, addresses your first question. Critical bit below.
Quote:
Recommended 150 Hour Break-In settings for Pioneer 500M/600M/101FD/141FD (ONLY to be used with Evangelo2's Break-in DVD!!!!!!!!)

*****Note: This procedure is designed to be performed only during the first 150 hours of the display's lifespan. This procedure is designed to ensure the reference settings listed below provide maximum satisfaction. This procedure is NOT designed nor recommended to be used solely as Image Retention and/or Burn-in prevention. Also, if a setting is not listed in the settings below, please leave it at its default value.*****

Quote:
Originally Posted by St LEGEND View Post

2)my question is this, do u think pro calibration can remove the dirty white in pure mode

First problem: you're talking about a lack of contrast in a way that makes it sound like there's a defect in the image. It's just as likely you're used to something else, your config is wrong or there's a problem elsewhere in your video chain. If your question is "Will a competent calibration result in the best picture possible?" then the answer is yes.

Quote:
3) Is it actually possible for PQ to improve so much so soon after the break in process (about 35hrs) or is my mind playing tricks on me?

The latter.
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post #3310 of 4963 Old 06-14-2009, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kennelm View Post

Got my 600M mounted and I started the break-in procedure as described here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post14384866

I may have missed this in the pages and pages of discussion, but what should I do if I want to watch some regular TV as I complete the ~100 hrs of break-in? The break-in page warns against using those settings for any content other than the break-in DVD. It would be a pain to be constantly changing the settings back and forth, depending on whether I am watching regular TV, or getting in a few hours of break-in.

Please advise.

I've watched regular television a limited amount of time while running the break-in disk most of the time. (I'll be through break-in tomorrow.) When watching television I've been careful of no panels or letterbox, no static images, only Pure setting at fairly low contrast, etc. But, I'm not an expert on it, so I may not have done the thing which is best for the set in my impatience. Picture is looking fantastic, however.

I can tell you that you don't have to go through hassle of changing settings back and forth if you are running the break-in off a player feeding into one input and watching television off a feed coming through another input. The set will save your settings for each. At least, it did in my case. I checked back and forth to be sure. My Pure setting are unchanged when I go to the television. My Sport setting for break-in is unchanged when I go back to it.
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post #3311 of 4963 Old 06-14-2009, 12:00 PM
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Just want to thank all you guys and gals for all the information. I have been sneaking around these forums for the past month and a half trying to decide on my first HDTV/Monitor. After reading this specific thread I have decided to order a 500M which will be here on Wednesday. The info you all provided made my decision to go for a pioneer over a samsung or panasonic a little easier. Thank You all!

-E
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post #3312 of 4963 Old 06-14-2009, 12:03 PM
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Enjoy the best set on the market!

9G KURO equipped.
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post #3313 of 4963 Old 06-14-2009, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eehtee View Post

I've watched regular television a limited amount of time while running the break-in disk most of the time. (I'll be through break-in tomorrow.) When watching television I've been careful of no panels or letterbox, no static images, only Pure setting at fairly low contrast, etc. But, I'm not an expert on it, so I may not have done the thing which is best for the set in my impatience. Picture is looking fantastic, however.

I can tell you that you don't have to go through hassle of changing settings back and forth if you are running the break-in off a player feeding into one input and watching television off a feed coming through another input. The set will save your settings for each. At least, it did in my case. I checked back and forth to be sure. My Pure setting are unchanged when I go to the television. My Sport setting for break-in is unchanged when I go back to it.

Gotcha. I decided to use Pure with factor defaults (and contrast/brightness dialed back, of course) for the occasional TV viewing while I work my way thru the break-in DVD.

I have a receiver switching all my inputs, so everything comes to the 600M as HDMI-5.
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post #3314 of 4963 Old 06-14-2009, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docmal View Post

My logic makes sense and I have thoroughly tested my hypothesis. Setting the system my way produces the exact same black levels in movies without crush as your settings with the following benefits:
  • True 0-255 RGB (PC Levels) on games
  • Keep the Kuro on auto which will allow the kuro to switch its colorspace based on input
  • You will be able to see Blacker than Black on the DVE disk when your PS3 is outputting YrPB 4:4:4, whereas you cannot see Blacker than black with your settings.
  • The PS3 does not have to encode the color information from your BD into the RGB colorspace, it instead can use the native YrPb colorspace.
Here is the error when the Kuro is set to Auto it doesnt pick up the PS3 limited setting, my theory is that the PS3 is compressing 0-255 levels into 16-235 but still sending BTB and WTW information ie 0-15 and 236-255, thus tricking the Kuro into seeing 0-255.

So docmal, Are you are saying that even though there is a bug in the Kuro's "Auto" setting (where the Kuro won't pick up an actual "RGB Limited" 16-235 output signal from the PS3 when in Auto), the PS3 can be set (its own "Auto" mode) so that it will send that "Limited" signal (YCC?) to the Kuro when needed (playing BD's) and "format" it so that the Kuro can display it properly, even while the Kuro is set to it's 'broken' "Auto" mode?

And when playing games or viewing photos, those will be displayed correctly as well?

If so, then there should be no need for manual re-setting of anything when switching between BD and "game" modes, correct?

PS...I have the SA 8300HD cable box and I understand that that can only send a "Limited" 16-235 signal.

So I can use the second HDMI input on my soon to arrive 500M for that, set to 16-235 and not "Auto", correct?

Thanks,

--Mark--
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post #3315 of 4963 Old 06-14-2009, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easystreak View Post

Just want to thank all you guys and gals for all the information. I have been sneaking around these forums for the past month and a half trying to decide on my first HDTV/Monitor. After reading this specific thread I have decided to order a 500M which will be here on Wednesday. The info you all provided made my decision to go for a pioneer over a samsung or panasonic a little easier. Thank You all!

-E

Welcome.
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post #3316 of 4963 Old 06-14-2009, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdbimmer View Post

For those of you who prefer using Blue-Only mode and a pattern to set Color/Tint, you may want to recheck it if you set DRE on. On my display in Pure mode with Contrast @38, the Blue-Only method results in a Color setting of 10 with DRE off. With DRE on Low, this method results in a Color setting of 7.

well the 10 setting on color cannot be trusted as accurate if you read back on this thread. im sure +7 with dre on low is a little high also. im going to fiddle with some things tonight and one of them will be dre. i know that dre on mid and high dramatically changes the color on the set. im wondering if this mode messes with the gamma? this is the first set i absolutely cannot rely on any disc to calibrate. ever since i found out i cant calibrate color correctly, i cant trust pretty much any other value im trying to tweak because of this. and i dont want to spend money on a calibration unless those isf modes magically appear sometime in the future.

another problem im having is finding a good stretch mode on cable tv. its set to 1080i and the best i can find is auto, which uses full 1, and its a little on the wide side. im pretty pissed that there were no manual stretching settings even though there are position movements. what really ticked me off is that i cant move an image around in dot by dot so i can get rid of that disgusting green line.
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post #3317 of 4963 Old 06-14-2009, 05:35 PM
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quick issue. When watching FXHD (comcast) movies like Transporter2 and Mr. Mrs. Smith I see major compression issues. Looks like window blind compression to best describe it. The only cure is under Control Setup I have to enable HD AV Converter. Doing this clears everything up but it messes up all my inputs, I'm unable to change inputs while this option is enabled. Can anyone shed some like on what HD AC Converter does? Why does it fix my compression issues and why am I unable to change inputs. TIA

PRO-60X5FD
PRO-70X5FD
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post #3318 of 4963 Old 06-14-2009, 05:44 PM
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Just have to say that the blacks and color depth of this TV is in - F$%^ing - credible!!!!!

I just dug up the HD-DVD that I had and popped in Training Day and MAN, it just looks incredible. 1000 times better than the Samsung DLP I had. And I thought that was a great TV as well.

The intro on the HD-DVD was great. The little Harry Potter that I saw had some great blacks.

Just thought I would add my $0.02.
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post #3319 of 4963 Old 06-14-2009, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whityfrd View Post

well the 10 setting on color cannot be trusted as accurate if you read back on this thread. in the future.

Yes, and I was one of the people that pointed that out. My point was that if you do choose to use that method, be aware that DRE will change your result. And setting color around 5 or 6 produces the lowest deltaE using a YCbCr (YUV) input, per measured results (and Bodosom had a lower value - around 2 or 3 IIRC). My personal preference is Color @6 or 7 in Pure mode with DRE off. There is slight increase in deltaE, but the overall color error is still small.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whityfrd View Post

im wondering if this mode messes with the gamma?

I pointed this out in this thread as well, and the effect of DRE>Low on gamma is measurable, but it is not drastic. If you like it, use it.
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post #3320 of 4963 Old 06-14-2009, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdbimmer View Post

And setting color around 5 or 6 produces the lowest deltaE using a YCbCr (YUV) input, per measured results (and Bodosom had a lower value - around 2 or 3 IIRC).

Well yes but until I have access to i1pro I'd take my gamut measurements with the appropriate bit of salt. I've been sufficiently distracted that I've not been up to computing the proper luminance values so it's all suspect anyway. Besides my gamma adventures are more ... interesting.
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post #3321 of 4963 Old 06-14-2009, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Management View Post

Just have to say that the blacks and color depth of this TV is in - F$%^ing - credible!!!!!

I think that may be an exact quote of all my husband could say for the first couple of hours after seeing the picture - and I had to talk him into the 600M!
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post #3322 of 4963 Old 06-14-2009, 07:12 PM
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anyone think a good video processor would go well with the 600m or is the video processing in the units themselves good enough?
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post #3323 of 4963 Old 06-14-2009, 08:10 PM
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The 500M settings have been posted in the 9G Settings/Issues thread.
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post #3324 of 4963 Old 06-14-2009, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

The 500M settings have been posted in the 9G Settings/Issues thread.

I think there's a typo - you have Color Space 1 in your post-cal setttings.
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post #3325 of 4963 Old 06-14-2009, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

Well yes but until I have access to i1pro I'd take my gamut measurements with the appropriate bit of salt. I've been sufficiently distracted that I've not been up to computing the proper luminance values so it's all suspect anyway. Besides my gamma adventures are more ... interesting.

D-Nice's latest 500M settings have Color @2, so maybe you weren't that far off - with differences due to display to display variations. When you get the Chroma5 set up, compare your primaries xy locations with previous posted i1Pro values. If they are close, you may be able to use the Chroma5 to adjust the CMS, and you can definitely use it for the luminance method in any case.
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post #3326 of 4963 Old 06-14-2009, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whityfrd View Post

anyone think a good video processor would go well with the 600m or is the video processing in the units themselves good enough?

Such as what?
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post #3327 of 4963 Old 06-15-2009, 03:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whityfrd View Post

anyone think a good video processor would go well with the 600m or is the video processing in the units themselves good enough?

+1

I asked a similar question to this a while back and got no response. Someone else chimed in and said they would like to know as well. So that is three people that would like to know if someone has the info, or even an educated guess. 500m processing compared to the realta, reon, DCDi chips, best anchor bay chips, and others perhaps. Thanks.
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post #3328 of 4963 Old 06-15-2009, 03:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easystreak View Post

Just want to thank all you guys and gals for all the information. I have been sneaking around these forums for the past month and a half trying to decide on my first HDTV/Monitor. After reading this specific thread I have decided to order a 500M which will be here on Wednesday. The info you all provided made my decision to go for a pioneer over a samsung or panasonic a little easier. Thank You all!

-E

Welcome to the world of visual enlightenment my son.

Wednesday will be a day you never forget.

True for me anyway, kinda pathetic, but true. And actually it was Wednesday for me too, now I just got my boss to order one and his is arriving Wednesday as well. Screw callin' it Wednesday, it's Witnesskuroday!
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post #3329 of 4963 Old 06-15-2009, 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by neumei626 View Post

Welcome to the world of visual enlightenment my son.

Wednesday will be a day you never forget.

True for me anyway, kinda pathetic, but true. And actually it was Wednesday for me too, now I just got my boss to order one and his is arriving Wednesday as well. Screw callin' it Wednesday, it's Witnesskuroday!

Last Monday for me

Everything else < Kuro PLASMA
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post #3330 of 4963 Old 06-15-2009, 06:15 AM
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Last Monday for me

Last Monday for me too!!!

The Tyrant, the Rebel, and the Hero share the same creed...."TO LIVE IS TO ACT"
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