The Official Pioneer 9G North American KRP-500M / KRP-600M Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 130 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-27-2009, 09:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Magnus_CA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,335
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhaller View Post

Sorry, man. If it's any consolation I'm sure a lot of Elite owners are going to feel the same way once this knowledge becomes more widespread. I just bought my 111 a few months ago and I know I have some conflicted feelings about all of this as well.

Sometimes investing in technology just boils down to a roll of the dice.

^Good post.
Magnus_CA is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-27-2009, 09:40 PM
Advanced Member
 
surap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 954
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

This is an area of ... contention. There are people that say the filters don't work. Spears and Munsil make a convincing argument that filter failure just means you have the wrong filter. Some folks recommend using metered luminance but then there's this whole deal about finding the right values for your idiosyncratic primaries. So is blue only mode the same as using a filter? It should be but maybe not. When I get the S&M filter I'll have a go.

Thanks for answering, bodosom. I must admit though it got a little bit technical for me..

I wont touch this mode before I fully understand what it does.
surap is offline  
Old 06-27-2009, 09:46 PM
Advanced Member
 
surap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 954
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
I think the real hero is "patch-man" whoever he/she is.

Mr patchman, bring me your dreams...da da da da da
Sorry i couldnt resist..
surap is offline  
Old 06-27-2009, 09:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Artwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hoover, Alabama
Posts: 4,849
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 223
Is there any diffference whatsoever between the 500M and the 101FD when it comes to blacks?
Artwood is offline  
Old 06-27-2009, 09:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bodosom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Niagara Frontier
Posts: 6,395
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

Is there any diffference whatsoever between the 500M and the 101FD when it comes to blacks?

Rumour has it not so much. However both panels are difficult to measure.

Why do you ask?
bodosom is offline  
Old 06-27-2009, 10:06 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
D-Nice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 14,956
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

Is there any diffference whatsoever between the 500M and the 101FD when it comes to blacks?

No
D-Nice is offline  
Old 06-27-2009, 10:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bodosom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Niagara Frontier
Posts: 6,395
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 22
I was looking and found the Elite, the non-Elite, the 9G and the 141 threads but I didn't find the 101 or Signature threads. How very confusing.
bodosom is offline  
Old 06-27-2009, 10:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
RichB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 8,896
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 331 Post(s)
Liked: 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

500M vs 101FD, I'd say the 500M since it would keep $ in your pocket (to be used to upgrade other components of your HT)

The 600M has size, the 500M/101FD will have deeper blacks. Size does matter IMO

Agreed. I have both. The size difference is huge.

BTW, I have speakers attached to the 600M in my game room, the addition of the AMP is great for me

I always felt the 500M was punchier and the blacks are damn close to bezel black when there is any thing displayed on the screen. The 600M is great and satisfying, but the 500M boggles my mind.

- Rich

Oppo Beta Group

Parasound A51 Black (for sale) | Oppo BDP-105D | Oppo HA-1 | Oppo PM-1 | Parasound A21 & A31 | Revel Salon, Voice, Studio | Velodyne HGS-15
RichB is online now  
Old 06-27-2009, 10:47 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
elite-home's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Lexington, SC
Posts: 371
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Agreed. I have both. The size difference is huge.

- Rich

I have in fact heard that before.
elite-home is offline  
Old 06-27-2009, 10:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bodosom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Niagara Frontier
Posts: 6,395
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbird8450 View Post

Equally calibrated, my ISFccc modes look significantly different than Pure, even when each are outputting the same level of light output.

Can you characterize this difference in any objective way?
bodosom is offline  
Old 06-27-2009, 10:55 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Wetumpka, AL
Posts: 15,499
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 185 Post(s)
Liked: 200
RichB

Are you saying that the 600m's blacks are not as dark as the 500M's?

Samsung 64F8500, Panasonic 65VT50, Oppo 95, Tivo Roamio for OTA, Dish VIP722, Marantz AV8801 preamp, Rotel Amps, Atlantic Tech 8200 speakers, Seaton Submersive HP, Calman 5, Chromapure, Accupel DVG-5000, VideoForge HDMI II, i1Display3pro, i1pro2, eecolor colorbox.
JimP is offline  
Old 06-27-2009, 10:56 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
D-Nice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 14,956
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

Can you characterize this difference in any objective way?

The differences are built into the A/V mode templates. Pure is not ISFccc in any way shape or form. You have to see it to understand it.
D-Nice is offline  
Old 06-27-2009, 10:56 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
turbe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Lake Tahoe, NV
Posts: 4,435
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post


I always felt the 500M was punchier and the blacks are damn close to bezel black when there is any thing displayed on the screen. The 600M is great and satisfying, but the 500M boggles my mind.

- Rich

ahh, I didn't know you had both.. have you put them side by side so you see what we are seeing (me w/141FD vs 500M, D-Nice with 111FD vs 500M, others)?

Need to find a Professional Calibrator? Click Here to PM me with your Display & City

Calibrator List - Pioneer ISFccc Interface

Calibration Reports - Pioneer

 

ControlCAL™
Designed by Calibrators for Calibrators™

No need to fumble through the Display's Menu with its Remote Control™

turbe is offline  
Old 06-27-2009, 10:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bodosom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Niagara Frontier
Posts: 6,395
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

500M versus 600M

Don't forget to read the KRP Shipping and Damage thread.
bodosom is offline  
Old 06-27-2009, 10:58 PM
Member
 
MICHAELSD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 106
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
D-Nice, do you know if the KRP-500M and the PRO-101FD use the same panel and video processing, or if there's a difference? Thanks in advance.

It seems like Pioneer will never be bested
MICHAELSD is offline  
Old 06-27-2009, 10:59 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
elite-home's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Lexington, SC
Posts: 371
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

RichB

Are you saying that the 600m's blacks are not as dark as the 500M's?

This is true to the smallest degree. Of course with the 600 being 44% bigger there seems to be a tie.
elite-home is offline  
Old 06-27-2009, 11:02 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
elite-home's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Lexington, SC
Posts: 371
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

Don't forget to read the KRP Shipping and Damage thread.

the 600m is being packaged ENTIRELY different than previous panel issues that were notated. We had two delivered on Friday and both were in mint condition. The packaging was slightly different than when I received mine in March. Of course, there are always those bad apples no matter what you do.
elite-home is offline  
Old 06-27-2009, 11:03 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bodosom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Niagara Frontier
Posts: 6,395
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Pure is not ISFccc in any way shape or form. You have to see it to understand it.

I understand that ISF need be no more like Pure than Dynamic. If I see a difference I will endeavour to describe it.
bodosom is offline  
Old 06-27-2009, 11:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
hhaller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,458
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

Can you characterize this difference in any objective way?

IMHO, ISF pics look clear, cleaner and punchier. Like Pure on steroids.
hhaller is online now  
Old 06-27-2009, 11:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Magnus_CA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,335
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by elite-home View Post

the 600m is being packaged ENTIRELY different than previous panel issues that were notated. We had two delivered on Friday and both were in mint condition. The packaging was slightly different than when I received mine in March. Of course, there are always those bad apples no matter what you do.

I've heard from at least 2 authorized Pioneer dealers that nothing was changed in the way the 600m's were packaged. Supposedly the tale that they were recalled to be repackaged or repackaged in the distribution chain was a hoax.

I'm not saying you're wrong or a liar, elite-home, but there seems to be contradictory information flying around. One thing is for sure, my 600m's arrived in perfect condition.
Magnus_CA is offline  
Old 06-27-2009, 11:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
RichB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 8,896
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 331 Post(s)
Liked: 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

RichB

Are you saying that the 600m's blacks are not as dark as the 500M's?

Yes, I am, by eye-balling it.
That said, in my opinion, bigger is still better

- Rich

Oppo Beta Group

Parasound A51 Black (for sale) | Oppo BDP-105D | Oppo HA-1 | Oppo PM-1 | Parasound A21 & A31 | Revel Salon, Voice, Studio | Velodyne HGS-15
RichB is online now  
Old 06-27-2009, 11:15 PM
AVS Special Member
 
RichB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 8,896
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 331 Post(s)
Liked: 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

ahh, I didn't know you had both.. have you put them side by side so you see what we are seeing (me w/141FD vs 500M, D-Nice with 111FD vs 500M, others)?

Actually, I turned on ABC and started to watch Harry Potter and the watcha ma call it. Anyway, I was upstairs looking at the 500M and I thought the picture was astounding. So I decided to go downstairs and look at the 600M and it look very good but I thought the 500M looked better. They were both on TiVo HDs so I would look at each one with the same scene.

This was a highly scientific and also slightly aerobic compassion

- Rich

Oppo Beta Group

Parasound A51 Black (for sale) | Oppo BDP-105D | Oppo HA-1 | Oppo PM-1 | Parasound A21 & A31 | Revel Salon, Voice, Studio | Velodyne HGS-15
RichB is online now  
Old 06-27-2009, 11:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
RichB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 8,896
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 331 Post(s)
Liked: 273
Turbe,

Thanks for making the ISF patch available and thanks to the patriot(s) that helped figure this out. I always that there was a good chance that a patch would come about.

Of course, the pricing is going to be interesting. I have ControlCal for my 6020 which I no longer own. Cal-man and bought the 600M in April from Robert and the 500M in March from Electrograph (god rest their souls) and for the life of me I cannot remember the day of the week I ordered them

Expect a PM

- Rich

Oppo Beta Group

Parasound A51 Black (for sale) | Oppo BDP-105D | Oppo HA-1 | Oppo PM-1 | Parasound A21 & A31 | Revel Salon, Voice, Studio | Velodyne HGS-15
RichB is online now  
Old 06-27-2009, 11:23 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
elite-home's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Lexington, SC
Posts: 371
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus_CA View Post

I've heard from at least 2 authorized Pioneer dealers that nothing was changed in the way the 600m's were packaged. Supposedly the tale that they were recalled to be repackaged or repackaged in the distribution chain was a hoax.

I'm not saying you're wrong or a liar, elite-home, but there seems to be contradictory information flying around. One thing is for sure, my 600m's arrived in perfect condition.

I opened two from yesterday to today and in the processing of opening you can tell more care was taken in the process. the front of the panel is more securely placed in reference to the foam used. Even my partner that helped me mount my 600 in March stated the boxing appeared snugger than previously.

You can see from previous posts I have stated I thought a lot of the damage from shipping was somewhat overblown. Perhaps also the mind believes what it sees My point was not that they were recalled, more to the point the new shipments that have been distributed this month appear to be better prepared for transit.
elite-home is offline  
Old 06-27-2009, 11:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Magnus_CA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,335
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by elite-home View Post

I opened two from yesterday to today and in the processing of opening you can tell more care was taken in the process. the front of the panel is more securely placed in reference to the foam used. Even my partner that helped me mount my 600 in March stated the boxing appeared snugger than previously.

You can see from previous posts I have stated I thought a lot of the damage from shipping was somewhat overblown. Perhaps also the mind believes what it sees My point was not that they were recalled, more to the point the new shipments that have been distributed this month appear to be better prepared for transit.

After posting I thought it is very reasonable that the more recent shipments were packaged better, which makes a lot more sense than a repackaging effort in the distribution chain.
Magnus_CA is offline  
Old 06-27-2009, 11:27 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
elite-home's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Lexington, SC
Posts: 371
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus_CA View Post

After posting I thought it is very reasonable that the more recent shipments were packaged better, which makes a lot more sense than a repackaging effort in the distribution chain.

You see, two members can disagree politely and then reagree without apologies needed. isn't this pleasant
elite-home is offline  
Old 06-27-2009, 11:28 PM
Senior Member
 
Riot Nrrrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA
Posts: 241
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
I think a bigger surprise than the patch announcement was the fact that D-Nice, rather than being the wizened old Gandalf (giver of all Pio knowledge) I expected, turned out to be ESPN's Stuart Scott

Just for the record, given that Mac OS X up to and including Leopard had an MSRP of $129, I find $149 for a patch to be a bit outrageous

A lot of us who purchased KRP-500Ms and KRP-600Ms did so precisely because we are price-sensitive and cannot afford the Elite panels. My AmEx took enough of a hit this past month with the panel (and having to bend over to Pio for the !@!&@% stand) - so $149 is pretty much right out of the question for me.
Riot Nrrrd is offline  
Old 06-27-2009, 11:31 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
elite-home's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Lexington, SC
Posts: 371
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Nrrrd View Post

I think a bigger surprise than the patch announcement was the fact that D-Nice, rather than being the wizened old Gandalf (giver of all Pio knowledge) I expected, turned out to be ESPN's Stuart Scott

Just for the record, given that Mac OS X up to and including Leopard had an MSRP of $129, I find $149 for a patch to be a bit outrageous

A lot of us who purchased KRP-500Ms and KRP-600Ms did so precisely because we are price-sensitive and cannot afford the Elite panels. My AmEx took enough of a hit this past month with the panel - $149 is pretty much right out of the question for me.

It isn't $149 if you bought it from someone special, come on- I couldn't resist!!!

I say it should be free.... free.... free.... who's with me? [looking around, sees nobody, feels kind of lonely]
elite-home is offline  
Old 06-27-2009, 11:49 PM
Member
 
MICHAELSD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 106
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by elite-home View Post

I say it should be free.... free.... free.... who's with me? [looking around, sees nobody, feels kind of lonely]

I'm with you ! I'd probably pay $80 at the most for the hack. $150 is pretty steep considering what it is.

It seems like Pioneer will never be bested
MICHAELSD is offline  
Old 06-28-2009, 12:00 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tbird8450's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,010
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 49
Considering that ISFccc is by far the biggest game changer between the Elites and non-Elites, I'd say $150 isn't too tough to swallow considering the price difference between say a 500M and a 111/101FD, which is much larger than $150.

For example, a 500M w/ the patch could be had for a LOT cheaper than a 101FD, and they are identical in terms of PQ and adjustability.

Also, for D-Nice or anyone...do you know exactly what the difference is in AR coatings between a 111/141/151 and a 500M/101? They are clearly different, but I'm curious as to which offers superior performance in a brightly lit room.
tbird8450 is offline  
 
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off