The Official Pioneer 9G North American KRP-500M / KRP-600M Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 154 - AVS Forum
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post #4591 of 4963 Old 07-05-2009, 02:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbird8450 View Post

I've got a 111 next to a 500M and the difference is quite noticeable to me. That's not to say that everyone's reaction to it will be the same.

Are we talking mostly the low level glow from a black screen or overall with normal programming?

The television screen is the retina of the mind's eye.
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post #4592 of 4963 Old 07-05-2009, 06:08 AM
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In your opinion which is better? The 111 or the 500M and how much better?

I think I know the answer but your have both of them there so let us know.

Jim

Quote:
Are we talking mostly the low level glow from a black screen or overall with normal programming?


Honestly, the biggest advantage I've seen in going for the 500M is in the lack of DSE. My 111 had what I would call light to moderate DSE. It didn't bother me at first but it's become increasingly annoying over time to the point that when conditions are right to see it, I can't tear my eyes away from the problem. The 500M is essentially perfect in this regard, and for me the purchase was worth it for that alone. As I have never seen a 111 that did not suffer from the problem to some extent (most were worse than mine), I'm making a guess that it's been addressed with the "newer tech" panels.

As far as black levels go, the difference is clearly seen on a black screen and while watching lower APL material. The dimmer your room the bigger the difference becomes. I would not, however, sacrifice ISFccc for the improved blacks between the two.

Thus, if you want to make 100% sure that your warranty remains intact, then there'd be little question in my mind that you should keep your Elite.

Your mileage may vary.
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post #4593 of 4963 Old 07-05-2009, 06:25 AM
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Thanks for the clarification. I've decided early on with the 111 that it's so good only perfect blacks are going to make me want another tv. I'm looking forward to that day and only a marginal jump in this area is not worth it to me. I don't want to take a chance on a dead pixel etc. As far as DSE I had it big time on my first 111 and some other issues but not on this panel.

The television screen is the retina of the mind's eye.
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post #4594 of 4963 Old 07-05-2009, 07:16 AM
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I do not get why Elite owners are upset that the M's got their ISF restored. It was removed at the last minute for crying out load.

I hope the 20's get unlocked, even though I do not have one

- Rich

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post #4595 of 4963 Old 07-05-2009, 07:16 AM
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Ok, issue found with the 500M...

I've got all of my HDMI components going through my AVR (passthrough) and into the TV via HDMI 1.

With RGB set to Auto on HDMI 1, my PS3 works fine. However, upon switching to the cable box (SA 8300HD), the black levels are highly elevated. I have to switch from Auto to 16-235 to get them back to normal. In doing this, the PS3's colors are completely skewed.

How do I set things up so that both sources are correct without my having to constantly toggle the RGB setting back and forth?

Thanks.
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post #4596 of 4963 Old 07-05-2009, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbird8450 View Post

How do I set things up so that both sources are correct without my having to constantly toggle the RGB setting back and forth?

Do you need to run the PS3 in RGB 1-254?

Well actually if you do or not you should still check the FAQ.
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post #4597 of 4963 Old 07-05-2009, 07:23 AM
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I've tried setting RGB from the PS3 from Limited to Full and back, and it makes no difference when the 500M is set to 16-235.

Hold on, I may have figured out the problem. Back in a few...

Ok, I switched from YCbCr to RGB and both sources seem fine now when the TV is set for 16-235.

Are there any drawbacks to this approach? Most places I've seen recommend YCbCr for the PS3.
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post #4598 of 4963 Old 07-05-2009, 09:50 AM
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There is a thread here that discusses PS3 HDMI settings ad nauseam, and the PS3 FAQ thread is here. Search for ChrisWiggles' posts in the first thread for information on possible clipping and banding issues when video is remapped to 0-255 on both devices. For games it seems that 0-255 is correct.

Maybe we should add a link to the PS3 FAQ in the KRP FAQ?
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post #4599 of 4963 Old 07-05-2009, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdbimmer View Post

Maybe we should add a link to the PS3 FAQ in the KRP FAQ?

I think that's a great idea as it seems to come up often enough. Would be nice to have it all in the same place.
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post #4600 of 4963 Old 07-05-2009, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbird8450 View Post

Are there any drawbacks to this approach? Most places I've seen recommend YCbCr for the PS3.

Check the S&M chroma multiburst pattern. My Sony S550 borks it in YCC. That's the motivation for the comment in the FAQ.
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Originally Posted by jdbimmer View Post

Maybe we should add a link to the PS3 FAQ in the KRP FAQ?

Totally dude! An excellent idea.
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post #4601 of 4963 Old 07-05-2009, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdbimmer View Post

Maybe we should add a link to the PS3 FAQ in the KRP FAQ?

I'm not really happy yet but this will go in the Monday update.

Q. What are the right settings for my PS3?
a. The PS3 video FAQ discusses this at length but note the RGB bug above. In the Kuro community there is some disagreement. For video range inputs (television, DVD, BD) this should work. There is further commentary here.
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post #4602 of 4963 Old 07-05-2009, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

I do not get why Elite owners are upset that the M's got their ISF restored. It was removed at the last minute for crying out load.

I hope the 20's get unlocked, even though I do not have one

- Rich

-EDITED-
To say it was restored or unlocked infers it was there to begin with. Based on what I've seen myself a more accurate verb is added. This is only speculation on my part.
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post #4603 of 4963 Old 07-05-2009, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

I'm not really happy yet but this will go in the Monday update.

Looks good to me.

Edit: On second thought, you may want to mention that the PS3 settings can be problematic when another device uses RGB 16-235 on a shared KRP HDMI input via an HDMI switch or AV receiver switch. My understanding (I don't own one) is that on a dedicated HDMI input, the PS3 can be set to use RGB 0-255 for games and YCbCr for video - it will switch between the two, as will the KRP when set on Auto. (How's that for adding to the confusion?)..
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post #4604 of 4963 Old 07-05-2009, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_In_Boston View Post

I have a 5.1 system but I may not want to turn my AVR on every time I watch TV.

So is there a recommended sound bar I could hook up to the 500M just for the weather and news, etc. ?

Jim

Just a question... whats so hard about turning on the AVR and keeping the volume low? A harmony remote will handle all of that with one button press, and be a lot cheaper than a good soundbar.
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post #4605 of 4963 Old 07-05-2009, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdbimmer View Post

On second thought, you may want to mention that the PS3 settings can be problematic

Thanks for the note/idea.

Q. Speaking of YCC what are the right settings for my PS3?
a. The PS3 video FAQ discusses this at length but note the RGB bug above. In the Kuro community there is some disagreement. For video range inputs (television, DVD, BD) this should work. There is further commentary here. Note that mixing certain devices on the same port (5 or 6) via a switch or AVR may cause problems. If you have the right setup a good solution is to connect the PS3 directly to the KRP and send the audio to your AVR.
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post #4606 of 4963 Old 07-05-2009, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irfan View Post

Just a question... whats so hard about turning on the AVR and keeping the volume low?

There's nothing wrong with that if it suits your habits, your housemates' habits and you're willing to have an ... abomination ... in your house.

Hmmm, was that my outside voice?

I suspect volume isn't the issue for anyone.
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post #4607 of 4963 Old 07-05-2009, 12:13 PM
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Does anyone know what the model number is for the 111FD speakers? Edit: Found it!
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post #4608 of 4963 Old 07-05-2009, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irfan View Post

Just a question... whats so hard about turning on the AVR and keeping the volume low? A harmony remote will handle all of that with one button press, and be a lot cheaper than a good soundbar.

There is nothing HARD about turning on the ARV. I do intend to buy a harmony remote.

This idea was not to have all of those systems running if I just want to check the weather, local news or business news before going to work.

i never mentioned a thing about the volume, that is not an issue.

Jim
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post #4609 of 4963 Old 07-05-2009, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

There's nothing wrong with that if it suits your habits, your housemates' habits and you're willing to have an ... abomination ... in your house.

Hmmm, was that my outside voice?

I suspect volume isn't the issue for anyone.

Drop the coy dance and spit it out. If you're saying what I think you're saying, your post makes no sense in the context of that posters situation. Then again, you could be saying something entirely different than what I think you're saying so again I say.. spit.it.out.

Mourning the disappearance of the -ly suffix. Words being cut-off before they've had a chance to fully form, left incomplete, with their shoelaces untied and their zippers undone. If I quote your post (or post in your thread) without comment, please check your zipper.
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post #4610 of 4963 Old 07-05-2009, 12:31 PM
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Jim_in_Boston, if it's a question of saving a little electricity, then it's probably a wash comparing the power consumed by a sound bar vs. the receiver.

if it's a question of saving a little wear 'n tear on your receiver by not having as many on/off cycles, well, I'm not sure what the receiver failure data is on that sort of thing and what the cost/benefit is of being more or less discriminating on how often you go through the receiver even for trivial viewing situations; weather, talking head programming, etc.

As far as your speaker system goes, there's really no significant wear on them from more frequent on/off cycles.

Mourning the disappearance of the -ly suffix. Words being cut-off before they've had a chance to fully form, left incomplete, with their shoelaces untied and their zippers undone. If I quote your post (or post in your thread) without comment, please check your zipper.
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post #4611 of 4963 Old 07-05-2009, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CruelInventions View Post

again I say.. spit.it.out.

I was referring to the Harmony. Not a big fan.

I like to control my remote control and be able to import Pronto files which means editing software and I don't like touchscreens so MX-900 it is (for me). Sadly, like the KRP, the Genesis intended for the custom installer.

Which reminds me, I need to find out if the discrete size switching can work. Anyone know?
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post #4612 of 4963 Old 07-05-2009, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CruelInventions View Post

Jim_in_Boston, if it's a question of saving a little electricity, then it's probably a wash comparing the power consumed by a sound bar vs. the receiver.

if it's a question of saving a little wear 'n tear on your receiver by not having as many on/off cycles, well, I'm not sure what the receiver failure data is on that sort of thing and what the cost/benefit is of being more or less discriminating on how often you go through the receiver even for trivial viewing situations; weather, talking head programming, etc.

As far as your speaker system goes, there's really no significant wear on them from more frequent on/off cycles.

Thanks for the feed back on that.

Jim
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post #4613 of 4963 Old 07-05-2009, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbird8450 View Post

Ok, issue found with the 500M...

I've got all of my HDMI components going through my AVR (passthrough) and into the TV via HDMI 1.

With RGB set to Auto on HDMI 1, my PS3 works fine. However, upon switching to the cable box (SA 8300HD), the black levels are highly elevated. I have to switch from Auto to 16-235 to get them back to normal. In doing this, the PS3's colors are completely skewed.

How do I set things up so that both sources are correct without my having to constantly toggle the RGB setting back and forth?

Thanks.

I know you found a solution but I'm just curious. What make and model # AVR are you using?


Jim
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post #4614 of 4963 Old 07-05-2009, 12:56 PM
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bodosom -

aah, ok then. That wasn't what I thought you might be saying, so you're off my hook.

Many like or prefer Harmony remotes, but many others prefer URC remotes. Nothing too controversial there. I've always wanted to try one of those URC's, but too rich for my blood.

Mourning the disappearance of the -ly suffix. Words being cut-off before they've had a chance to fully form, left incomplete, with their shoelaces untied and their zippers undone. If I quote your post (or post in your thread) without comment, please check your zipper.
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post #4615 of 4963 Old 07-05-2009, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CruelInventions View Post

I've always wanted to try one of those URC's, but too rich for my blood.

Well the retail pricing does seem unreasonable.
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post #4616 of 4963 Old 07-05-2009, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greencut View Post

I think the equivalent of the 101/401 is our lx509/609 which are about 10% cheaper than the KRPs. You would have to check Pio. Aust website to compare specs. The attraction of the KRP was that a slighty better picture can be tweaked out of them during calibration and also Lx's are hard to find now.

The LX509/609 are not equivalent to the 101FD and 141FD. The KRP-M's in Australia are the ones that are closest to the NA Signatures, the Input configuration is different (and of course the KRP-M's have audio circuits).

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post #4617 of 4963 Old 07-05-2009, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_In_Boston View Post

I know you found a solution but I'm just curious. What make and model # AVR are you using?


Jim


Onkyo TX-SR805.
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post #4618 of 4963 Old 07-05-2009, 01:42 PM
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Hello, Where can I find info on the expected life expectancy of the 500M?

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post #4619 of 4963 Old 07-05-2009, 01:44 PM
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Oh, also, is there a way to make the 500M volume control operate my Yamaha RX-Z7's volume?
Thanks!
Douglas

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post #4620 of 4963 Old 07-05-2009, 02:34 PM
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Abe's of Maine has a good price but i heard they arent the best people to buy from...how true is that????

(where would i talk about this???? not sure if i can talk about such in here)
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