The Official Pioneer 9G North American KRP-500M / KRP-600M Owner's Discussion Thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 4963 Old 12-31-2008, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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NOTE: This Thread is for the North American KRP-500M and KRP-600M Models - not for the KRP-500M / KRP-600M or KRP500M / KRP600M Models available outside North America.

NORTH AMERICAN KRP-M FAQ - See Post #3

The North American M-Series is NOT a direct import from Europe or any other part of the world. It is designated for the custom installer market in North America. Although the specification is very similar to the European M-Series, they have different firmware (i.e. No ISFccc mode) in North America




PRODUCT OVERVIEW:
  • 50-Inch Class (49.85” Diagonal) 1080p KURO Flat Panel Monitor (KRP-500M) Reported List $ $3499
  • 60-Inch Class (59.58” Diagonal) 1080p KURO Flat Panel Monitor (KRP-600M)
  • High-Definition 1080p Resolution (1920 x 1080p)
  • Deep Intense Blacks for Unmatched Contrast
  • Ultra-thin Cosmetic Design (2.5" deep)
  • Expanded Picture Set-up and Adjustment for Custom Calibration
  • IP Control for Set-up, Control, Configuration and Self-diagnostics
  • New Optimum Mode Automatically analyzes and adjusts audio and video settings based on content and room light
  • Room Light Sensor for automatic picture adjustment
  • 2 Independent HDMI 1.3 inputs with HDMI Control
  • RS-232C Control
  • 9W+9W Audio Amplifier
  • Available Ultra-slim Profile Wallmount (KRP-WM01 sold separately)
  • Available Table Top Stand (KRP-TS01 sold separately)
  • Available Optional Undermount Speaker (KRP-S04 sold separately)


Pioneer KURO monitors bring cutting edge technology and flawless visual design together for an experience unlike anything you’ve ever imagined. Building on Pioneer’s revolutionary line of KURO televisions, the new Pioneer monitors boast the same award-winning black level performance that has become synonymous with the KURO name.

Expanded features, multiple user menus and detailed picture settings put the custom installer's needs at the top of the list. Equipped with a host of options for seamless system integration, the Pioneer KURO monitors are an installer's dream.

IP network protocol and a multitude of other control options bring connectivity to the forefront and make installation almost effortless. Expanded picture set-up and finely tuned adjustment control within each setting let the custom installer create a visual masterpiece for the client with near limitless potential. Experience the new line of Pioneer KURO monitors today and discover a new world - nothing short of visual astonishment.



FEATURES:
  • New Optimum Mode automatically analyzes and adjusts video content and room light conditions for optimum picture and performance
  • New Room Light Sensor
  • Image Orbiter (Off / Mode 1 / Mode 2)
  • New Energy Save Mode (Picture Off / Standard / Save 1 / Save 2)
  • Picture Adjustment Comparison (compare before / after picture images while adjusting settings)
  • 2 Independent HDMI 1.3 inputs with KURO Link and ability to accept 1080p True24/60Hz signal
  • 1 DVI w/HDCP
  • Standard 3:2 (60Hz) and Advanced PureCinema with 3:3 Pulldown (72Hz), Smooth (60Hz)
  • Remote Control: Illuminated / Preset Mode / Learning Mode

PICTURE SETTINGS:
  • A/V Selection memory – 8 options for viewing preferences: Optimum*/ Standard / Dynamic / Movie / Pure / Sport / Game / User (PC input: only Standard & User)
  • Aspect Ratio Control – 13 positions: Auto* / FULL (for SD & PC) / FULL1 (only for HD) / FULL2 (only for HD) / FULL 14:9* / Dot by Dot**/ Zoom* / CINEMA* / CINEMA 14:9* / 4:3 / WIDE (only for SD)* / WIDE1 (only for HD)* / WIDE2 (only for HD)* - *Except PC signal
  • Advanced Picture-in-Picture (4 positions), Picture-side-Picture (3*patterns)*/ SWAP and Still Picture capability
  • After Image Reduction Function
  • Orbiter (Off / Mode 1 / Mode 2)––
  • Auto Size (Off / Natural / Wide-Zoom)––
  • Side Mask Detection (Mode 1 – for black side masks / ––Mode 2 – for black ––& illustrated side masks)
  • Side Mask Brightness Sync (Fixed / Auto)––
  • Video Pattern (White Bar)––
  • Game Control Preference (AV Selection: only Game) (Off / On)
  • Room Light Sensor (Off / On)

VIDEOPROCESSING TECHNOLOGY:
  • Picture Detail Settings – DRE Picture, Black Level, ACL, Enhance Mode, Gamma and CTI (No menu items for these functions)
  • Noise Reduction Setting – 3 DNR, Field NR, Block NR, Mosquito NR
  • Color Detail Settings – Color Temperature (5 Pre-settings or Manual adjustment), CTI, Color Management
  • 3DYC (Off / High / Mid / Low)
  • IP Mode (1 / 2 / 3)
  • Drive Mode (1/ 2 / 3)

Specifications and design subject to change without notice.


KRP-500M Brochure / KRP-600M Brochure

Additional KRP-500M Info / Additional KRP-600M Info

Back Panel / Connections

Owner's Manual

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post #2 of 4963 Old 12-31-2008, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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AV Selections available:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roberto View Post

No Performance mode. These are the supported modes:

OPTIMUM
STANDARD
DYNAMIC
MOVIE,
PURE
SPORT
GAME
USER


The have 8 memories like the Signatures for the standard AV Selections and are based on Input Signal.

i.e. Pure for 1080p/60, Pure for 1080i

You cannot manually select which to use, it's based on Input Signal.

Also, you want to be careful, the memories can cycle and settings lost.

More info Here and Here:



PRO-111FD Speakers on a KRP-500M: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post16037782



.

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post #3 of 4963 Old 12-31-2008, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
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NORTH AMERICAN KRP-M FAQ
Created and maintained by bodosom

A work in progress. Thanks to Turbe, SoSo, D-Nice, Vancouver, asystole13, ndisgii, Tim McCune, elite-home, frustated, jdbimmer, Eliab, chargedmr2, ROMAN O, irfan, ChrisWiggles ... (more to come)

PM bodosom with suggestions or corrections.

Useful places:
The 9G Settings/Issues thread.
The Elite thread.
The 141FD thread.
The 9G Comparison thread.
The KRP settings thread.
The The 9G General thread.
The Pioneer KRP Shipments and Damage Tracking Thread (This thread is winding down.)

There's also a non-Elite thread but the differences between the non-Elites and the KRP are much greater than between the KRP and the Elites.

Q. What's the difference between the KRP and the other Kuros?
a. The KRP is similar to the Signature. The specifics can be found in the comparison thread. Notably it has two fewer HDMI inputs and does not ship with ISFccc. It does have a two-channel nine watt audio amplifier. It does not ship with a stand.

Q. Can I use speaker X with my KRP?
a. There are standard speakers and "compatible" speakers.
1) The official 500M speaker is the KRP-S04. 111 Speakers Mounted on a 500M
2) The official 600M speaker is the KRP-S02

Q. Can I connect powered speakers to the speaker outputs?
a. It's unwise to make a direct connection. A level converter is normally required.

Q. Can I use stand Y with my KRP?
a. There are standard mounts and "compatible" mounts. Pioneer does not publish a comprehensive compatibility list. The mounting dimensions are in the architectural drawings here: 101FD/500M and 141FD/600M If you have a metal cutting miter saw and a drill press you can shorten a 6020 stand to eliminate the "chicken leg" look.
1) The official 500M stand is the KRP-TS02. Other Pioneer choices include the PDK-TS23
2) The official 600M stand is the KRP-TS01.

Q. What about a wall-mount?
a. The KRP uses standard M8 bolts. The length will depend on your application. There are stops in the KRP to help prevent internal damage. The 500M works with most universal mounts but the 600M is a bit fussier. The mounting dimensions are in the architectural drawings and can be used to verify spacing. Here's a post about monoprice noting that they don't have properly sized wall mounts for 60" panels and here's a post about adapting a monoprice mount for a 600M.
1) The official 500M wall mount is the KRP-WM02.
2) The official 600M wall mount is the KRP-WM01. Here's a list of alternatives.

Q. Are there better sources than Pioneer for speakers and stands?
a. People have reported success on Ebay but suitable parts for the 600M, particularly stands, seem hard to come by.

Q. What's the deal about this ISFccc mode patch?
a. The ISFccc upgrade to the North American KRP will let you use ControlCAL to activate and adjust ISFccc modes.

Q. Why did Pioneer enable ISFccc on the KRP in the rest of the world?
a. Pioneer marketing is mysterious. The KRP takes the place of the Signature in the rest of the world.

Q. If there's no tuner how do I get over the air broadcasts?
a. Although not plentiful there are some stand-alone NTSC/ATSC over the air (OTA) tuners and DVRs. E.g. any High Def TiVo, the Samsung DTBH260F, the KWORLD tuner or other ATSC terrestial tuner that has composite, component, DVI or VGA output with the requisite audio output or HDMI.

Q. I set my input to Auto but when I select a source that uses RGB signals the picture looks washed out. Why?
a. There's a bug in the auto-detection code with RGB. You can force it to the video range (RGB 16-235) or change the source to use YCC. Noted here and here among other places. For a more in-depth look at level matching and why things look too light, too dark or have color overlay etc. check out this lengthy explanation of levels.

Q. What's YCC?
a. YCC is short hand for YCbCr (or YPbPr). It's a method for compressing RGB.

Q. Then why don't we always use YCC?
a. Sometimes it's not available but even if it is it may not be the best choice due to player or AVR deficiencies.

Q. Speaking of YCC what are the right settings for my PS3?
a. The PS3 video FAQ discusses this at length but note the RGB bug above. In the Kuro community there is some disagreement. For video range inputs (television, DVD, BD) this should work. There is further commentary here. Note that mixing certain devices on the same port (5 or 6) via a switch or AVR may cause problems. If you have the right setup a good solution is to connect the PS3 directly to the KRP and send the audio to your AVR. An HDMI splitter may be useful to preserve HD audio.

Q. Is the 500M really as good as a Signature 101FD?
a. They have similar picture quality (PQ) and similar capabilities. They share certain critical components specifically the plasma display module. The model specifics can be found in the Kuro Comparison thread.

Q. Is the 500M really better than the 60" Elite (151) or 60" Signature (141)?
a. It's newer and is reported to have some improvements.

Q. I heard the KRPs get quite hot or give off a lot of heat during use. Is that true?
a. They are warmer than some other plasmas particularly with very bright content. Such content is said to have a high average picture level (APL). Typical 500M glass surface temperature is about 105F.

Q. I understand plasma televisions use a lot of power. How much?
a. The KRP-500M averages 250W and peaks around 400W. Power consumption is determined by APL and the energy saving options.

Q. I heard that the KRP buzzes?
a. Many Kuros have a buzz that comes from the glass itself. This is due to the way they work and the way they're made. This is discussed on the Buzz thread. The buzz is a function of APL and can reduced or eliminated using the Energy Save 2 mode. Not all panels buzz and/or not everyone hears the buzz.

Q. Where's the power button?
a. There's a power button on the left side and a standby button on the right side. Both directions are as you face the front. The KRP comes boxed with the power button in the off setting. Both buttons are shown in the manual on page seven.

Q. Should I use the D-Nice break-in? Can I watch regular programming while running his procedure?
a. If you want to use the D-Nice 500M reference settings you should use the D-Nice break-in. There are currently no 600M reference settings and there are no Signature/KRP ISFccc reference settings. If you don't intend to use the D-Nice settings or your KRP will be calibrated then you don't need to follow his procedure. The documented procedure doesn't say you can deviate by watching other content.

Q. Who's D-Nice?
a. World renown D-Nice is a well known calibrator and Pioneer bon vivant. As a public service he publishes settings for a variety of Pioneer (and other) TVs for folks that are unable to have their Kuro calibrated.

Q. What is ISFccc?
a. The Imaging Science Foundation is in the Display Standards industry, and is dedicated to improving the quality of electronic imaging. They explain and demonstrate calibration procedures. ISF ccc is a Certified Calibration Configuration which provides tools in the monitor to assist the calibrator. ISFccc mode selects one of those configurations. In the case of a Kuro ISFccc modes most obviously allow a very bright image with a specific set of characteristics. This article highlights ISFccc versus Pure.

Q. Are there posted settings for Pure or ISFccc?
a. There are no ISFccc numbers for the 500M/600M. Some post-calibration numbers have been posted: D-Nice 500M Pure, elite-home 500M Pure, elite-home 600M Pure, frustated 600M Pure. sillysally has posted his 141FD ISFccc-night settings.

Q. Should I have my KRP calibrated?
a. Maybe. Here's one perspective.

Q. What is blue-only mode?
a. Most consumer adjustment discs provide a pattern to assist adjusting color and tint. This is normally done using a blue (and optionally red and green) light filters. The filters may not be able to filter out all the other colors -- red and green in the case of the blue filter. Blue only mode shuts off the red and green drive in the KRP itself resulting in a "perfect" blue filter. Both filters and blue only mode are pattern dependent. Typical color/tint setting patterns result in a color setting that is too high. The HD color pattern on the S&M disc yields better results.

Q. Which gamma setting gives the best performance?
a. 2.2 or 2.3 are the most commonly used but it depends on ambient lighting. Here's a set of measurements. Based on these one would use 2 or 1. Most published settings use 2.

Q. Why did Pioneer include a web interface? It seems useless.
a. The web interface has some utility but for day to day operations your remote is superior. You cannot use your remote to check hours. Something everyone (impatiently waiting for their break-in to finish) wants to do.

Q. I can't find the KRP in my list of universal remote codes. What should I use?
a. 101FD/141FD and ignore the inputs that you don't have.

Q. How can I check my hours?
a. You have to configure your KRP for network access, attach it to a network or directly to a PC and then open this link: http:///cgi/service_right.cgi where is replaced with the IP address of your KRP -- EZ Hours

Q. Should I adjust my DVD player to send 1080p to my KRP or audio-video receiver (AVR)?
a. The Spears & Munsil blu-ray assessment disc can help you determine which component should be used to rescale/de-interlace your source material.

Q. The best way to connect my non-HDMI XBox?
a. The KRP has both component and VGA inputs. VGA input supports 1080p

Q. Is it a good idea to buy a discontinued product?
a. In this case yes.

Q. Why is the KRP so much less expensive than the equivalent Signature model?
a. Pioneer marketing is mysterious.

Q. So then where's a good place to buy one?
a. Please contact the forum sponsors that deal in plasma televisions. Don't forget this item in the special posting rules for the plasma forum -- the first rule of fight club 6) Do Not Discus [sic] where to buy a TV.

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post #4 of 4963 Old 12-31-2008, 12:28 PM
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It looks similar to my 141FD...but does it support ISFccc?
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post #5 of 4963 Old 12-31-2008, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
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That Owner's Manual shows ISF, the Brochure and other Online Specs do not. My primary Pioneer NA Rep says no.



This Owner's Manual could be the reason why some are hearing it has the ISFccc Interface.

I hope my Rep is wrong..

BTW, the back panel doesn't look like my 141's..

EDIT: Notice the references to the "custom installer" - I'm not familiar with Pioneer's Dealer specifics (perhaps one of the Forum Sponsors will let us know if they will be selling these Models).

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post #6 of 4963 Old 12-31-2008, 02:34 PM
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post #7 of 4963 Old 12-31-2008, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Are you getting one (or more)?

If so, there is a simple test that can be done to verify a few things...

Also, do you have suggested List Price?

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post #8 of 4963 Old 12-31-2008, 02:48 PM
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pricing???
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post #9 of 4963 Old 12-31-2008, 02:59 PM
 
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$3499 for the 500 List these are the only ones that I can see in stock right now.
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post #10 of 4963 Old 01-02-2009, 12:37 PM
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Does the US model come with some external "media box" (sounds like an HDMI switcher) or is that only the European versions? I don't see any mention of it anywhere in the US documentation.

Also, what does the last part in parentheses mean:

"Picture Detail Settings – DRE Picture, Black Level, ACL, Enhance Mode, Gamma and CTI (No menu items for these functions)"

IIRC the FD101 has 5 gamma options, so I'd expect this set to as well - but the "no menu items for these functions" portion is a little confusing. Thanks!

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post #11 of 4963 Old 01-04-2009, 11:37 AM
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Any more info on these models?

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post #12 of 4963 Old 01-04-2009, 12:35 PM
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post #13 of 4963 Old 01-04-2009, 12:54 PM
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Ok, I am lost,
what the heck is the KRP-500M or the KRP-600M ??

never heard of these and can't find them on pio's website.

Are these just euro or some other countrys version of the signatures??
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post #14 of 4963 Old 01-04-2009, 12:55 PM - Thread Starter
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hmm, why don't you click the links on Post #1 in this very Thread..

They are similar to the Signature Elites (they are not considered Elites and don't have the same Warranty) but they are missing some features (only 2 HMDI Ports, they have audio circuitry and no ISFccc). They are similar to the European KRP-M's (but I was told directly from Pioneer NA, the North American KRP-M's do not have the ISFccc Interface).

I think they will only be available to the Custom Install Market though I bet some will make it to Pioneer Dealers.....

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

We need you to buy one and test her out

I may very well be doing that- best way to answer my questions right?

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post #16 of 4963 Old 01-04-2009, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

hmm, why don't you click the links on Post #1 in this very Thread..

They are similar to the Signature Elites (they are not considered Elites and don't have the same Warranty) but they are missing some features (only 2 HMDI Ports, they have audio circuitry and no ISFccc). They are similar to the European KRP-M's (but I was told directly from Pioneer NA, the North American KRP-M's do not have the ISFccc Interface).

I think they will only be available to the Custom Install Market though I bet some will make it to Pioneer Dealers.....

This is the first i had ever heard of these models.
They sound kinda like a non-elite signature but with more settings and some other differences.
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post #17 of 4963 Old 01-05-2009, 03:20 PM
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So, are these now in stock and shipping?
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post #18 of 4963 Old 01-05-2009, 07:40 PM
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Arent these LCD products?
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post #19 of 4963 Old 01-05-2009, 07:45 PM - Thread Starter
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They are plasmas

Today, I received my Mac mini and I didn't get the DVI to VGA adapter that I needed for my small LCD Monitor (they shipped me a mini-DVI to DVI adapter)..

So, I just connected it to my PRO-141FD (DVI to DVI). I don't even use my HTPC on my 141.

One thing I noticed, in OS X 10.5 under System Preferences/Displays, the 141 comes up as: KRP-500M/600M

Interesting.. looks like they didn't change the ID for the Signatures...

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post #20 of 4963 Old 01-05-2009, 08:11 PM
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I don't see why people would buy the Non Elites now with these available at the same MSRP unless they absolutely need a tuner or speakers. I wonder what street prices will be like?

Judging from the manual this is what the NEs should have been like, these seem to have about the same options as a 8g non elite

Be a fan of displays, not companies or technologies!
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post #21 of 4963 Old 01-16-2009, 09:41 AM
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I agree. I was planning on purchasing the 111 yesterday, but I came across the KRP500M which has made me do a little research. I was wondering about the calibration possibilities based on Turbe"s prior comments.He was kind enough to PM me with his thoughts , but it appears until someone gets their hands on one, the ISFccc/calibration issues are up in the air.

By the way, I have been reading these threads for months now and thanks for everyones keen insightI have owned a Pio 810 elite since October 04 and the monitor has flawless.
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post #22 of 4963 Old 01-16-2009, 10:39 AM
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I have heard from Pioneer and this model does not allow for ISFccc calibration, but does allow for more calibration capability then the 5020. Turbe is gospel.
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post #23 of 4963 Old 01-16-2009, 06:35 PM
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Probably most people realize this but these tvs do not come with TV stands, they are available optional. The 60" stand list for $400.
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post #24 of 4963 Old 01-17-2009, 09:30 AM
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I found a link for the rs232/IP commands for these TVs.

http://pioneerelectronics.com/Static...nds%20List.pdf

This a file for the HEX/IR codes for the 600/500m. It is a zip file:
http://pioneerelectronics.com/Static...%20&%20HEX.zip
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post #25 of 4963 Old 01-21-2009, 06:41 AM
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It has Pure mode.
Perhaps this is what the xx20's should have been.
Does it have better picture adjustments?

- Rich

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post #26 of 4963 Old 01-21-2009, 07:36 AM
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Forum Sponsor Monitor Outlet sells both of them. I think they price them between the Elite and the XX20s.
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post #27 of 4963 Old 01-21-2009, 08:13 AM
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Is this the new pdp's for 2009 ex: 10g???

I want to replace my 6070 for a 151, 141 or a 10g 60 or 65 pio pdp.
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post #28 of 4963 Old 01-21-2009, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel L. View Post

Is this the new pdp's for 2009 ex: 10g???

I want to replace my 6070 for a 151, 141 or a 10g 60 or 65 pio pdp.

Don't think so as the spec for the 500M & 600M is very similar if not the same as the 9G panels.
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post #29 of 4963 Old 02-11-2009, 11:43 AM
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Any more info on the ISFccc? I am considering the 600M, but dont want to purchase without knowing if it has ISFccc or not. And I am speaking of the North American version, not the overseas one. Any calibrators out there got their hands on one of these yet? Thanks!
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post #30 of 4963 Old 02-13-2009, 04:01 PM
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Nobody?
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