2009 Panasonic 12G Plasma Line-Up - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 3994 Old 01-24-2009, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

Hi,

Although I am very happy with the lower power consumption of the new Panny's, I fear for some reason that although they will have very good performance, that they will not be the quantum leap in PQ performance the hype would lead one to believe - I realise it is a totally irrational statement and not based on any factual data whatsoever and therefore holds no credibility but it's just a gut feeling I have - maybe I have just developed a high sense of expectation fatigue over the years!

Bazzy!

Bazzy,


No offense but today's Panasonic Plasmas look pretty freaking awesome. I just recently purchased a 46" 800u for the bedroom. And at this point, I don't see how it will even be possible to have a "quantum leap" in PQ. I think they are going in the right direction by focusing on some of these other issues like power consumption.

Oh, and I love the fact that they are coming out with a 54". I predict this to be their top seller. This will be my next TV.

Mike
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post #632 of 3994 Old 01-24-2009, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post

Of course, this will all probably happen just in time for OLEDs to become viable competitors to both plasma and LCD.

But probably not competitive price wise.

Mike
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post #633 of 3994 Old 01-24-2009, 09:41 AM
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I'm waiting until reviewers get actual displays to play around with and take measurements before I decide if they are better than sliced bread.
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post #634 of 3994 Old 01-24-2009, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeBiker View Post

I'm waiting until reviewers get actual displays to play around with and take measurements before I decide if they are better than sliced bread.

Right!

I would like to see some black level measurements of the 12G's and the VX100's

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post #635 of 3994 Old 01-24-2009, 10:24 AM
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Does anyone know or can anyone tell me the Physical dimensions of the 54" plasmas? I am looking at picking one up this spring when they come out, but I am limited in the actual width of the TV. My Entertainment center is only 52" wide.

I have searched AVS and this thread but cannot find the width size of the 54" Plasma TV's, if anyone can help it would be appreciated.

Troy
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post #636 of 3994 Old 01-24-2009, 10:31 AM
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Will there be decreased hold times on these neopdp´s? Hold times on current pdp´s are 4-6ms.
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post #637 of 3994 Old 01-24-2009, 02:15 PM
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I guess one thing that I have been wondering is how different are these new "Neo" plasmas really from the current generation, and how can we really be sure that it will be an improvement in terms of picture quality? If the technology is sufficiently different, isn't it possible that there may be issues we are not considering? It's one thing to take a proven technology and fine tune it year after year, but with a major change isn't it a little like starting from scratch? I'm not saying they could be crap of course, just putting it out there.
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post #638 of 3994 Old 01-24-2009, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

Hi,

Although I am very happy with the lower power consumption of the new Panny's, I fear for some reason that although they will have very good performance, that they will not be the quantum leap in PQ performance the hype would lead one to believe - I realise it is a totally irrational statement and not based on any factual data whatsoever and therefore holds no credibility but it's just a gut feeling I have - maybe I have just developed a high sense of expectation fatigue over the years!

Bazzy!

What quantum leap? The previous Panny plasmas were rated at or near the top of any display, plasma or LCD. The new ones increase the brightness, lower energy consumption, increase to 1080 lines of motion resolution, will have black levels equal or better than 99% of any display on the market, have a new 54" screen size, and be priced under 2K for most models and around the mid 2's for the others even with the larger screen size.
Hellp? Am i missing something here?
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post #639 of 3994 Old 01-24-2009, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lipcrkr View Post

What quantum leap? The previous Panny plasmas were rated at or near the top of any display, plasma or LCD. The new ones increase the brightness, lower energy consumption, increase to 1080 lines of motion resolution, will have black levels equal or better than 99% of any display on the market, have a new 54" screen size, and be priced under 2K for most models and around the mid 2's for the others even with the larger screen size.
Hellp? Am i missing something here?

Hi lipcrkr,

No, it seems you are not! I think I may have reached a "saturation" point where normally after going through the advertising and marketing campaigns of companies that every year promise something so wonderful but when it comes it just does not live up to the hype or expectations and one then feels a big let down or feel forced to compromise takes it's toll - I guess it's my fault for falling for the hype, getting excited about it and being such a sucker to believe everything claimed lock, stock & barrel!

I just think I will now have no expectations whatsoever and that way, I cannot get disappointed (hopefully!) and my even be pleasantly surprised if the products actually delivered on their hype and claims! It's nothing against Panasonic ( even though they generally have no design sense!) - it is something general I feel but as I will be buying a plasma this year, after seeing what came out of CES 2009 - I kind of expected more. I did say previously that my post was totally irrational and just a gut feeling! Lets hope that these new Panny's deliver on the benefits you have outlined!

Bazzy!
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post #640 of 3994 Old 01-25-2009, 07:12 AM
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With the new Pannys being 30% brighter, is there still a wide gap in brightness between them and LCDs? How much brighter is an LCD from Sony or Samsung?
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post #641 of 3994 Old 01-25-2009, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by akadoublej View Post

With the new Pannys being 30% brighter, is there still a wide gap in brightness between them and LCDs? How much brighter is an LCD from Sony or Samsung?

Wow. Have you actually ever owned a plasma? Or just looked at them in the store? I own both and can tell you there is no wide gap between the two. My plasma can be as bright as I need it by messing with the video settings. If anything, I actually find my LCD being overly bright.

Mike
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post #642 of 3994 Old 01-25-2009, 11:56 AM
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Plasmas are bright enough to give good picture with correct skin tones, 09 plasmas will be very good according to spec now.
LCD are brighter than plasmas, in order to get the correct skin tones the brightness has to come down this is where black levels are down considerably as compared to plasma. if one read LCD reviews in detail, every review says how good the measurement of black levels are so high when comparing brightest screen to dark screen but in actual program the black levels are not at same black levels. I have read Home theater magazine article on flat panel face off (Feb. 09), my conclusion was even at 0 ft-lambert reading of LCD as compared to .01x reading on panny plasma does not give superior PQ on high end LCD, a $2500 panny 800u did not perform poorly against $7000 SONY LCD. For $4500 price difference i would get plasma.

09 plasma will be awesome from Panny, they will expensive in April but will be bargain in Sep 09. 50PX80U started with $1500 in May 08 ending selling for less than $900 in Nov 08.
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post #643 of 3994 Old 01-25-2009, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeynut View Post

Wow. Have you actually ever owned a plasma? Or just looked at them in the store? I own both and can tell you there is no wide gap between the two. My plasma can be as bright as I need it by messing with the video settings. If anything, I actually find my LCD being overly bright.

IMO there is a difference between "brightness" and "whiteness". If you turn the brightness up on a plasma, what you will get is a brighter "dirty" white. I am an LCD guy contemplating buying the new neo V10 because of the 5 lumens coupled with lower energy consumption. What remains to be seen by me and other LCD people who are looking into this, is whether the 5 lumens only allows you to turn up the brightness at the same level as previous but at lower energy consumption, or, whether the 5 lumens actually whitens the whites. I do realize that calibrating an LCD properly, i've done hundreds, means turning everything down. Like using "standard" or "movie" mode as a start. But an LCD that is properly calibrated still has whiter whites than a plasma. I heard mention that you can get a whiter white on a plasma by tweaking gamma and color temperature etc. But i need to find out what 5 lumens actually means in relation to whites.
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post #644 of 3994 Old 01-25-2009, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lipcrkr View Post

If you turn the brightness up on a plasma, what you will get is a brighter "dirty" white.

I am not sure why you refer to PDPs as having dirty whites? Most PDPs have adequate brightness within a dark and bright room. I noticed that when you calibrate your LCDs that you tone down the brightness.

Chris
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post #645 of 3994 Old 01-25-2009, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lipcrkr View Post

IMO there is a difference between "brightness" and "whiteness". If you turn the brightness up on a plasma, what you will get is a brighter "dirty" white.

Ok, this makes absolutely no sense.

White is defined as x.3127 y.3290 for the ATSC/NTSC specification. That white point is used for all broadcast, DVD, BD, etc material. I know plenty of plasmas that can properly display this white point on multiple stimuli levels including the current generation of plasmas.

If you prefer a bluer white or a brighter white, so be it. However, claiming that plasmas have "dirty whites" is silly.


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post #646 of 3994 Old 01-25-2009, 06:56 PM
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From a fairly recent Sound & Vision plasma vs LCD shootout, after calibration of course...

"There were other subtle color variations. For instance, the bright white railing of the wooden porch steps in this scene had a barely detectable yellow hue that wasn't visible on the more neutral plasma. And in a close-up of a furniture mover, I noticed that the crew neck of his gray/white undershirt had a slight green/yellow tinge that affected only the brighter portion of the narrow band that wasn't in a light shadow. On the plasma, the shirt's color remained consistent both above and below that crease."

"I have to stress again, though, how incredibly close these pictures were in most respects. After discussion, we agreed to award the LCD a solid 8 on a scale of 1 to 10 for color accuracy. But it couldn't match the 9½ we awarded the near-perfect plasma."
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post #647 of 3994 Old 01-25-2009, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lipcrkr View Post

IMO there is a difference between "brightness" and "whiteness". If you turn the brightness up on a plasma, what you will get is a brighter "dirty" white. I am an LCD guy contemplating buying the new neo V10 because of the 5 lumens coupled with lower energy consumption. What remains to be seen by me and other LCD people who are looking into this, is whether the 5 lumens only allows you to turn up the brightness at the same level as previous but at lower energy consumption, or, whether the 5 lumens actually whitens the whites. I do realize that calibrating an LCD properly, i've done hundreds, means turning everything down. Like using "standard" or "movie" mode as a start. But an LCD that is properly calibrated still has whiter whites than a plasma. I heard mention that you can get a whiter white on a plasma by tweaking gamma and color temperature etc. But i need to find out what 5 lumens actually means in relation to whites.

No. "Dirty" whites are dim whites. Plasma whites can appear "dirty" under certain circumstances because they are dim.
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post #648 of 3994 Old 01-25-2009, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txmatt View Post

From a fairly recent Sound & Vision plasma vs LCD shootout, after calibration of course...

"There were other subtle color variations. For instance, the bright white railing of the wooden porch steps in this scene had a barely detectable yellow hue that wasn't visible on the more neutral plasma. And in a close-up of a furniture mover, I noticed that the crew neck of his gray/white undershirt had a slight green/yellow tinge that affected only the brighter portion of the narrow band that wasn't in a light shadow. On the plasma, the shirt's color remained consistent both above and below that crease."

"I have to stress again, though, how incredibly close these pictures were in most respects. After discussion, we agreed to award the LCD a solid 8 on a scale of 1 to 10 for color accuracy. But it couldn't match the 9½ we awarded the near-perfect plasma."

Well said...

Chris
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post #649 of 3994 Old 01-25-2009, 07:27 PM
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Let me just ask this question in here and see what kind of response I get.

If given a choice, what would you do?

1) buy 50' Pio Kuro at the sale price

2) wait for the Panny G/V10 54' later this year.

I know that no official prices have been released for the Pannys, but NEOPDP is sounding awful good.
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post #650 of 3994 Old 01-25-2009, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsohng View Post

Let me just ask this question in here and see what kind of response I get.

If given a choice, what would you do?

1) buy 50' Pio Kuro at the sale price

2) wait for the Panny G/V10 54' later this year.

I know that no official prices have been released for the Pannys, but NEOPDP is sounding awful good.

1. The Kuro is a darn good performer at the price point.

2. You are looking more towards 2nd/3rd quarter on a release date. Is it worth the wait? It will documented that the V series should be big improvement over the PZ800/PZ850. Over the Kuro is still up in the air.

Chris
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post #651 of 3994 Old 01-25-2009, 07:50 PM
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I'm pretty sure lipcrkr is referring to whites needing to be brighter. And honestly, just because a person wants brighter whites it doesn't necessarily mean they want 'blue-er' whites.

I was in a conference the other day and a slide was being projected on the screen. In front of me was a person with a white shirt with direct light shining on it. In comparison, the screen was much dimmer and it was obvious that it had a blue-ish tint while being much dimmer.
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post #652 of 3994 Old 01-25-2009, 08:01 PM
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Ok maybe I'm crazy, but doesn't intensifying the whites (I.E. making them brighter) turn those whites to an inaccurate bluish tint or some other tint of color. I thought that was the whole point of color accuracy? You may want a T.V. as a spotlight in your room, but I'm not sure you can maintain color saturation and color accuracy at higher levels of brightness. Someone please chime in and correct me if I'm wrong.
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post #653 of 3994 Old 01-25-2009, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsohng View Post

Let me just ask this question in here and see what kind of response I get.

If given a choice, what would you do?

1) buy 50' Pio Kuro at the sale price

2) wait for the Panny G/V10 54' later this year.

I know that no official prices have been released for the Pannys, but NEOPDP is sounding awful good.

I bet the 54" will be pretty pricy.....

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post #654 of 3994 Old 01-25-2009, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I know plenty of plasmas that can properly display this white point on multiple stimuli levels including the current generation of plasmas.

I'm assuming when you say stimuli, your meaning intensity of the white correct?

That's interesting. I did not know that.

So theoretically, you could MAX OUT brightness to 100 on a TV and still (after isf calibration) maintain the accuracy of the color white and even possibly red, green etc.? Not that I wouldn't want something so blinding... just more of a technical wondering.
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post #655 of 3994 Old 01-25-2009, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by germanplumber View Post

Ok maybe I'm crazy, but doesn't intensifying the whites (I.E. making them brighter) turn those whites to an inaccurate bluish tint or some other tint of color.

No.


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post #656 of 3994 Old 01-25-2009, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by germanplumber View Post

I'm assuming when you say stimuli, your meaning intensity of the white correct?

Yes.

Quote:


So theoretically, you could MAX OUT brightness to 100 on a TV and still (after isf calibration) maintain the accuracy of the color white and even possibly red, green etc.? Not that I wouldn't want something so blinding... just more of a technical wondering.

Yes.


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post #657 of 3994 Old 01-25-2009, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

I bet the 54" will be pretty pricy.....

So my street price of $2999 could hold true...

Chris
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post #658 of 3994 Old 01-25-2009, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by jsohng View Post

buy 50' Pio Kuro at the sale price


What sale?

If this is OS please PM me with that info.
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post #659 of 3994 Old 01-25-2009, 09:21 PM
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So my street price of $2999 could hold true...

Chris

For what these models are expected to do I don't think that's expensive.
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post #660 of 3994 Old 01-25-2009, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim_In_Boston View Post

For what these models are expected to do I don't think that's expensive.

From 11G to 12G they could be consider expensive. 58PZ800 street price would most likely be priced at a 54V10, while the 58V10 should be well over $3k. To someone else that couldn't afford a 54" at that price they could be expensive.

Chris
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