Benefits of ISF beyond what you see? Please advise - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 99 Old 02-01-2009, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

Old Black & White films were made in 5400K.

Do they look better when viewed with a set calibrated to 5400K or 6500K?

How many sets do have a 5400K color temperature option?

Many sets can be calibrated to 5400K as well. My Pioneer Elite was. I have both D65 and D54. My Film mode is set up for 54K B&W only. In most cases, though, I believe that when converted to Blu-Ray or DVD, many black and white films are redone to the 65k spec. I know that a lot of films I watch look way too "sepia" on the D54 calibration and I watch a lot of black and white classics.

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post #92 of 99 Old 02-01-2009, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

Old Black & White films were made in 5400K.

Do they look better when viewed with a set calibrated to 5400K or 6500K?

How many sets do have a 5400K color temperature option?

Some like it 5400K, others don't.

Only you will know after you experience both options...

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post #93 of 99 Old 02-02-2009, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by omeletpants View Post

This quote from the article sums up the disconnect between the calibration community and the average customer:

"Right is right and wrong is wrong. Presenting material on a video system in anything but the most accurate manner in which it is capable of is a disservice to the time and monetary investment that its owners spent assembling it, particularly to those that have given considerable amounts of both."

For the Calibrator community it's D65K or the highway. You, the customer, will learn to like it and if you don't then you are wrong. There should be some room to compromise on customer preference but the arrogance of the calibrators won't allow that.

People don't want to watch tv in a cave, they want something that looks good to them. Given the economy and people's willingness to spend $500 on calibration and not be satisfied ought to be a message to the calibration community. But I suspect they will cling to the "right is right" mantra

Your presumptuous argument - which cannot be intelligently supported with any convincing data - is steeped heavily on one single premise...

IGNORANCE

It has been my experience over the last 12 years that the overwhelming majority will in fact appreciate a properly tuned video system. During that time, I've performed over 3000 calibrations for all types of clients throughout the country, many of which had never seen a calibrated image. Now, while the calibrated settings may not have worked well in a room that is inundated with light, they always look superior when the lighting conditions can be somewhat controlled - not a cave mind you - just controlled a bit. And frankly, that is how the average consumer views a TV.

Education is key for one to fully appreciate a professionally calibrated video system. We go through great lengths pre-calibration, during the session, and post-calibration to answer any of our client's questions in regards to their display, the calibration, or future video systems. I cannot think of a single solitary case where a client didn't appreciate this level of support/education. And it is normal - not the exception - that their significant others will see a positive difference as well. Of course, there are occasions where we won't take on a job if we feel that we cannot make someone happy. But, this occurs maybe 2 or 3 times a year out of over 1000 inquires.

Secondly, the vast majority of calibrations sell for $300.00 - not $500.00. In fact, we even offer a $200.00 package. Regardless, who are you to insinuate what people can and cannot afford in this economy? Everyone has different priorities and it is they who will decide what gets cut during tough times to make room for what they prefer and/or need.

And lastly, the majority of people visit this forum for one reason - education. It mystifies me how someone could amass almost 3000 posts, presumably because they want to contribute to the knowledge base of this great forum, yet go out of their way to perpetuate ignorance by making outlandish, wide sweeping, false statements in efforts to dissuade others from viewing their displays in the most accurate manner possible. And yet amazingly, you have the audacity to call the professionals that adhere to the standards that make this possible arrogant.

What do you call the individual that seeks to keep others in a state of ignorant bliss?

Eliab
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post #94 of 99 Old 02-02-2009, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliab View Post

Your presumptuous argument - which cannot be intelligently supported with any convincing data - is steeped heavily on one single premise...

IGNORANCE

It has been my experience over the last 12 years that the overwhelming majority will in fact appreciate a properly tuned video system. During that time, I've performed over 3000 calibrations for all types of clients throughout the country, many of which had never seen a calibrated image. Now, while the calibrated settings may not have worked well in a room that is inundated with light, they always look superior when the lighting conditions can be somewhat controlled - not a cave mind you - just controlled a bit. And frankly, that is how the average consumer views a TV.

Education is key for one to fully appreciate a professionally calibrated video system. We go through great lengths pre-calibration, during the session, and post-calibration to answer any of our client's questions in regards to their display, the calibration, or future video systems. I cannot think of a single solitary case where a client didn't appreciate this level of support/education. And it is normal - not the exception - that their significant others will see a positive difference as well. Of course, there are occasions where we won't take on a job if we feel that we cannot make someone happy. But, this occurs maybe 2 or 3 times a year out of over 1000 inquires.

Secondly, the vast majority of calibrations sell for $300.00 - not $500.00. In fact, we even offer a $200.00 package. Regardless, who are you to insinuate what people can and cannot afford in this economy? Everyone has different priorities and it is they who will decide what gets cut during tough times to make room for what they prefer and/or need.

And lastly, the majority of people visit this forum for one reason - education. It mystifies me how someone could amass almost 3000 posts, presumably because they want to contribute to the knowledge base of this great forum, yet go out of their way to perpetuate ignorance by making outlandish, wide sweeping, false statements in efforts to dissuade others from viewing their displays in the most accurate manner possible. And yet amazingly, you have the audacity to call the professionals that adhere to the standards that make this possible arrogant.

What do you call the individual that seeks to keep others in a state of ignorant bliss?

Eliab

So, anyone that disagrees with you is ignorant and arrogant---nice. You have confirmed everything I have heard about calibrator's attitudes. Not once do you talk about taking customer's preferences into account only your desire to force your will upon them.

First, we have the "right is right" guy, now your arrogant attitude, similar arrogance in the calibration forum and other comments I have read from calibrators here plus my own conversations. You could have tried building a compelling case but instead let your anger get the best of you.
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post #95 of 99 Old 02-02-2009, 07:29 AM
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omeletpants,

I'm not going to be lassoed into arguing with you as I would never be able to compile a case as strong as the one that you've already so eloquently created against yourself.

Good day sir,

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post #96 of 99 Old 02-02-2009, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by omeletpants View Post

So, anyone that disagrees with you is ignorant and arrogant---nice. You have confirmed everything I have heard about calibrator's attitudes. Not once do you talk about taking customer's preferences into account only your desire to force your will upon them.

First, we have the "right is right" guy, now your arrogant attitude, similar arrogance in the calibration forum and other comments I have read from calibrators here plus my own conversations. You could have tried building a compelling case but instead let your anger get the best of you.

Actualy, if a calibrator feels the services he/she is to provide will not meet the customers needs, it will not be performed.

Eliab quotes:

"Education is key for one to fully appreciate a professionally calibrated video system. We go through great lengths pre-calibration, during the session, and post-calibration to answer any of our client's questions in regards to their display, the calibration, or future video systems. I cannot think of a single solitary case where a client didn't appreciate this level of support/education. And it is normal - not the exception - that their significant others will see a positive difference as well. Of course, there are occasions where we won't take on a job if we feel that we cannot make someone happy. But, this occurs maybe 2 or 3 times a year out of over 1000 inquires."


Furthermore, professional (ISF) calibration is a proven technique with systems and devices that are engineered for today's highly sophisticated displays.

While the services of a professional calibration may fall short of appreciation to few, the majority are greatly satisfied with the end result and would not hesitate to use the service again if needed.

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post #97 of 99 Old 02-02-2009, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omeletpants View Post

So, anyone that disagrees with you is ignorant and arrogant---nice. You have confirmed everything I have heard about calibrator's attitudes. Not once do you talk about taking customer's preferences into account only your desire to force your will upon them.

First, we have the "right is right" guy, now your arrogant attitude, similar arrogance in the calibration forum and other comments I have read from calibrators here plus my own conversations. You could have tried building a compelling case but instead let your anger get the best of you.

You still don't get it. It is not arrogant for a calibrator to be straightforward about what they offer and why they offer it. Calibrators are offering a specific service. Would you expect a chef to tell you he will season the food to your taste? Would you expect a builder to tell you he will not use building code specs just because you don't like them or find them too expensive? When you buy certain goods or services, you accept what goes with them. A calibration means what it means. That is not arrogance; it is just a fact. A calibration to the customer's whims would not be a calibration; it would be a set of adjustments. Calibrators don't just do adjustments.

You don't like the results of D65 calibration, then don't hire a calibrator. Calibrators calibrate to D65, and sometimes D54 as an extra option. If you want something else, find someone to do it or do it yourself but don't expect a calibrator who adheres to standards to change those standards to satisfy you. That is not what either calibration or standards are about.

You have made claims that the majority of people don't like and wouldn't like calibration but have provided nothing beyond anecdotes in support of them. Do you have scientific polls or other information to confirm your assertions? Do you have information about how many TV buyers who don't visit AVS Forum or similar places have even heard of calibration?

You have denied the testimonies on these postings from both calibrators and their customers about what calibration is all about and about the customers' satisfaction with it. You seem to want to make your personal tastes everyones' tastes when it is clear that others are quite happy with calibration. Go petition the ISF and THX if you want something else. Posting here isn't going to change what calibration means.

I suspect this posting won't matter to you either.

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post #98 of 99 Old 02-02-2009, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Eliab View Post

omeletpants,

I'm not going to be lassoed into arguing with you as I would never be able to compile a case as strong as the one that you've already so eloquently created against yourself.

Good day sir,

Eliab

You engaged me in the argument. I have been very polite then out of nowhere you jump me. Nice try.
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post #99 of 99 Old 02-02-2009, 08:07 AM
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